Shameless self-serving request - Discount license fee if coming from competitor?

[romelwell]

I am looking to upgrade to an Ultimate license and bring my campaign from a competing product/service to Fantasy Grounds. Would Smiteworks consider offering a coupon for myself and others who are looking to switch to FG as our primary VTT? :-) Please? Pretty-please? With a cherry on top?

[LordEntrails]

*lol* note, you can say Roll20 here. Or any other competitor, you won't be banned and your posts won't be deleted! *G*

Heck, you can even complain and criticize, we just ask that you do so civilly.

[romelwell]

*lol* note, you can say Roll20 here. Or any other competitor, you won't be banned and your posts won't be deleted! *G*

Heck, you can even complain and criticize, we just ask that you do so civilly.

uh...no hablo English! ;-)

All joking aside, the support that FG has for Call of Cthulhu has keep me interested in this VTT for some time. The recent critical fumble by the brain-trust at R20 has inspired me to finally pull the trigger and jump ship. As I am not going to ask my players to both learn a new VTT and pay to do so, I'm going to assume 100% of the financial burden to switch to FG. And it would be a lot easier to beg forgiveness from my wife if the unexpected debt from our checking account was a bit lower...

[Moon Wizard]

Our licenses regularly go on sale on about an 8 week sales rotation, and I believe it’s been a while since the last license sale...

Cheers,
JPG

[Ellspeth]

FG also has the monthly subscription option before you bite the big one, and FG-Con is coming up in a few weeks, generally for a brief period all full licenses are upgraded to draw more GM's to FG-Con. It is a chance to test it on your players before a major investment.

[LordEntrails]

Our licenses regularly go on sale on about an 8 week sales rotation, and I believe it’s been a while since the last license sale...

Cheers,
JPG

Now that ^^^ is probably the best professional response possible. And it made me laugh!

[seycyrus]

I don't see how it would make business sense for FG to offer up special sales. Sure they want the increased traffic, but when would the time period be over? Would it just go on forever?

[Atua]

You can also subscribe for a month to check out the system and if you don't like it, you can get your money back.

On thinking on it though, it might be good to do the periodic sale for the ultimate and standard license soon to capture the disenfranchised market.

The sale usually lasts about 1-2 weeks, so I assume the same would apply here. The limited time sales tactic is an effective and useful method to trigger a purchase on an on the fence prospective client.

[Nylanfs]

Just a clarification for those unused to the business model. FG has subscriptions $4 & $10, AND a pay once model. The purchase once model is better for the customer, where as the subscription is better for the company.

[The High Druid]

Just a clarification for those unused to the business model. FG has subscriptions $4 & $10, AND a pay once model. The purchase once model is better for the customer, where as the subscription is better for the company.

I'm not sure that's entirely true. It gives the customers an option to try out FG for a month or two without committing to the larger up-front cost, and with only a minor increase to the overall cost. And if you consider the customers being a group, and not just the gamesmaster, one month of ultimate subscription verses 5 or 6 people buying standard licenses "blind" it seems a good option for customers too.

[MysticCelt]

I bought the ultimate license full-price at $150 three or four years ago and have been super happy with that decision ever since. If you can get a discount then go for it. But I just wanted to say, it's totally worth it at full price.

[LordEntrails]

I'm not sure that's entirely true. It gives the customers an option to try out FG for a month or two without committing to the larger up-front cost, and with only a minor increase to the overall cost. And if you consider the customers being a group, and not just the gamesmaster, one month of ultimate subscription verses 5 or 6 people buying standard licenses "blind" it seems a good option for customers too.
Well, remember the 30 day money back guarantee. So either way you can try out FG for a month with no risk.

[shadzar]

I don't see how it would make business sense for FG to offer up special sales. Sure they want the increased traffic, but when would the time period be over? Would it just go on forever?

because with the free FG version you can't do anything, you really cant use FG to try it out. you can only be a player if you find someone with the Ultimate license. a i suggested somewhere if Doug gave roll20 deserters 90 days of standard for free, then it would only be a lack of $15 give or take from the monthly fee revenue stream. but think how many books would need to be sold to replace those on roll20. they would probably buy the PHB, DMG, no forget it... Oct 1 they would buy the new basic bundle.. so instant sale for having the software itself as a lossleader. An for the most part with the one-time or lifetime licenses, the software itself is already a lossleader.

and considering FGCon gives free weekend test drive of Ultimate to all standard license holders next month, those switching over from roll20 would get the whole enchilada to test out real soon to be able to see if FG can replace roll20 for them. fully kick the tires, try to learn how to DM and set up homemade content in FG etc.

so setting up a lossleader as a lossleader isnt really a bad business model... it is something you are already doing anyway. Then getting people hooked on FG Classic, when the upgrade to FGU comes about, those people will likely be more willing to move onto it, than if FGU was competing with roll20 directly since it already made a big pull from roll20 in the advent of this fiasco that NolanT has caused.

at times like this a company can sit on its laurels while people jump ship from another product, or make a hard push to "welcome" those people onto a ship that isn't sinking. ;)

[Nylanfs]

I disagree with you, at least for Pathfinder or 35e. With the demo you can load the sample tutorial campaign, run a second instance to see what the player sees. test combat, work with images. you just can't save anything.

[shadzar]

you just can't save anything.

that is sort of the problem in a nutshell. what good is a platform for playing an RPG if you can't save your space or progress. it is like the quarter gobblers of old, finish it all at once or start over from the beginning.

it is pre Zelda that allowed you to quit playing for whatever reason and begin later.

[Trenloe]

what good is a platform for playing an RPG if you can't save your space or progress.
Platform? Huh? I agree that there wouldn’t be much point to a RPG VTT platform where you couldn’t save your work and gaming situation. But we're not talking about a platform here, we're talking about the free/demo license which, despite what you say, does allow you to "try it out". You can see what the interface can do from a GM point of view, you can play in a game with an Ultimate GM for as long as you like. It is there to let you try FG as a GM, have a single player connect, play around with what can be done, etc.. It is not there to allow you to run campaigns with the demo license. If you want to try FG as a GM running a multi-session game with multiple players then take out a one month subscription, with a no questions asked 30 day refund.

[shadzar]

you can't have your cake and eat it too. you don't get to list all the things crippleware is, then complain when a program is called crippleware.

also looking at the website you may see "Demo" posted all over the place, but looking inside the program, it clearly states the version as "FREE", not DEMO, not CLIENT, not PLAYER....


if it were to be honest, the "free"/"demo" version as it is called, should be called the "player client" to let people know, this is not the full DM tool, since that is how the most biggest salesmen pitch FG as, not a VTT, but a DM tool.

yet the website here still claims VTT....


mincing words like this is being dishonest and disingenuous.

when the programs claims inside its own code "FREE", then doesn't allow to save even the "campaign progress", not the exporting feature and such, but save campaign files to run even a game with 1 single player, or a group using a single PC for all the players, there is something wrong.. either the terminology used on the website or within the program is fraudulent since they in no way shape or form match.

Demo's are fine, player client is fine, just make it clearly stated and dont mince words.


DM tool, VTT, whatever FG really is, you can't test several features. This is what it means to be crippleware. Now i don't think at this stage with FGU in the maternity ward about to be birthed that the current version could be changed to shareware... the type of program that gives full functionality for 30 days, or 2 hours, or after opening it 3 times, but there is a reason crippleware was abandoned and shareware became the norm.


sorry, you might not like the term, but FG is what it is, and it is crippleware, and you can't test everything. ... without paying money, and YES ther is 30-day money back etc.. but that doesnt mean it is any less crippleware. you have to pay for full functionality, since it is one program to rule them all, one for players an the same for GMs...

and saving progress, being able to load it, is something that is required unless something is designed only for "one-shots". this is why people have been using roll20, and MANY, as pointed out by a lot of people around here contrary to the hopes of Doug, myself, and a lot of other people.. will CONTINUE to use roll20, because it is fully functioning without paying a dime.... if you want to deal with that sort of company.


the reason people are asking for a discount for switching platforms is beause they don't want to have to deal with backpeddling sexist racist people that are overprotective of their software and unable to accept criticism/critiques about it....


be careful actions and words dont seem like there is a NolanT here as well by being dismissive of glaring facts about FG.... look in the recent "compare FG to roll20" thread and you will see there people admit roll20 is FREE, while FG is not and that is why so many people were using it, not FG....


and ROG is so expensive as it is to play, then having to buy the books digital just to use a program online, and then having to spend extra .. that is a LOT of cost ont he DM,a nd players pay.. nothing.

but how can you spread that out to have the players pay in any sort of business model? that is the question whoever running a company will have to ask, or DMs will still seek the free versions since a single game book or adventures costs $50. its cheaper to go play an EA game with DLC lootbox gambling, than an RPG with a VTT at that point.

nothing warns a user that saving is not a feature of the "free" version...


Demo with one player and one GM

which could be a bait and switch in some cases as well....


but this isnt about legal things, it is simply about to test a program you want to know it does what it is intended to do, and saving progress in an RPG organization tool is a feature that people should clearly be able to test BEFORE having to do business with a company. none of this hidden EULA nonsense Radio Shack pulled with its CueCat scanners that was found to be illegal binding people to a EULA they werent allowed to read or such...

and then if someone doesnt buy a "license" aka an upgrade t the hosting portion, then maybe they use the free version with only 2 PCs connected and buy books... SmiteWorks hasnt lost money...choose your lossleaders well. give the 12 alarm chili & hot wings for free, then charge $5 for a glass of water if you want, just make it known up front.

>EOL

[Trenloe]

...be careful actions and words dont seem like there is a NolanT here as well by being dismissive of glaring facts about FG....
I'm not being dismissive of glaring facts, and I am far from being a NolanT. As usual, you distort the facts. If I was behaving like NolanT your posts would have been deleted and you would have been banned from these forums a long time ago - and not by me, as I've never banned anyone (other than 100% spammers). Engaging you, and pointing out your omissions/inaccurate statements is nowhere remotely like NolanT. You seem to enjoy deliberately posting inflammatory statements with little accuracy - this is another one of those statements.

The only reason I'm even engaging with you is that you regularly post inflammatory opinions and inaccurate misinformation. I don't want others reading your posts to think that all of what you spout is accurate. I really don't want to engage you, but as a forum moderator I feel I have to keep any constantly inaccurate misrepresentations in check.

The main issue I have with your statements (other than inaccuracy) is the sweeping generalisations you make - you keep saying "FG is crippleware", FG as a platform won't let you save your progress, etc., etc.. And you usually neglect to clarify that this is not FG as a whole - despite numerous people pointing this out to you. The free/demo client which you frequently decry is only designed to allow limited GM functionality - to try/demo the product as a GM (demo, not run a game) and for players where their GM has the Ultimate license. This is clear in the features and functionality of the Demo on the front page of this very website. Nobody is trying to hide anything about the functionality of the various FG licenses. Everyone admits it: Yes, you can't save anything with a free/demo client (other than PCs in Manage Characters). Yes, you can't have more than one player connect to a GM using the demo/free license. There is no "Bait and switch" going on. So it astounds me that you keep going on and on with the same misleading generalised posts.

Maybe it's because you clearly don't like FG. You've told us it has nothing for you as a VTT and that you don't use it. That's completely your choice and I respect that. What I don't respect is continually posting inaccurate and inflammatory statements on these forums. Maybe you just like arguing...

[ddavison]

To follow up on Moon Wizard's statement, sales that we have are pre-planned and scheduled in advance to be in sync between Steam and our website. Sales on specific DLC from licensed publishers is often times approved at a certain frequency, limited duration and percentage off. Due to our agreement with Valve (owners of Steam), we are not allowed to disclose the specifics of any upcoming sales. We *do* offer a 30-day money back guarantee for purchases on fantasygrounds.com (not Steam), however, and this means that you are free to contact us at [email protected] and request a refund for something if you see that it goes on sale within 30 days of purchase.

We are phasing out our large D&D Complete Bundle that grants a 25% discount when you complete the entire set and replacing it with 2 smaller sets that offer a 15% discount. In addition, we are adding a new set that offers 15% off other D&D products that were not previously part of the bundle. You would have until Oct 1st to grab that one at the max discount or you can wait until after and get a 15% discount on much more reasonably sized bundles such as the D&D Essentials. You can click See All Bundles on the main store page to browse those options.

[damned]

since that is how the most biggest salesmen pitch FG as, not a VTT, but a DM tool.

Do tell who the most biggest salesmen are please?


nothing warns a user that saving is not a feature of the "free" version...

Demo with one player and one GM

which could be a bait and switch in some cases as well....

You do understand dont you, that taking words out of context, or in isolation of other words that precede and follow them... is disingenuous...

You also understand that 10 bullet points on a page quite clearly do not spell out much of anything in detail...

Preceding your quoted line of text are the following rather salient points...

NO Build Your Campaigns
YES Play in a game hosted by Ultimate
NO Play in a game hosted by Standard
NO Host Games for Standard and Ultimate
NO Host Games for Demo Players
NO 242 Tokens (Animals, Characters, Monsters)
NO 26 battlemaps for streets, caves, dungeons and tunnels
YES Rulesets 3.5E, 4E, 5E, FATECore, PFRPG, Numenera
NO Data Libraries D&D 5e SRD , D&D 5e Basic Rules , D&D 3.5E SRD, FATECore, Pathfinder SRD Libraries

So you Cannot build a campaign, you get no data libraries and no art resources
And you CAN DEMO with one player and one GM

I feel it is ambitious to interpret that as bait and switch or whatever else you are suggesting

You also point out the discrepancy between the Website saying Demo and the Client as saying Free as though that were bait and switch and yet... I would think it would need to be the other way to trick you into the transaction?

Crippleware? Maybe... but its advertised as what it is.

[ddavison]

@shadzar, we never claim that you can test everything that FG can do with a free demo license. We describe the product the way we think makes the most sense and we offer a 30-day money back guarantee. If a customer wants to test beyond a demo, then they can grab a 1 month sub to test it fully and then request a refund if it doesn't satisfy their needs. If you think that is somehow disingenuous then we will just have to agree to strongly disagree.

[JohnD]

you can't have your cake and eat it too. ...

Dude... you need some of what I've been smoking this morning.

If FG is such a load of crap in your opinion you might have a better time frequenting other forums dedicated to something you do like. Unless trying to stir up non-existent "issues" and then getting a chuckle out of watching other people have to take time out of their day to correct your blatant misrepresentations is your thing (which, it kind of does appear to be...).

[WESeib]

Shadzar:
You get a 30 day money back guarantee with no questions asked.
You have 30 days to demo it until your heart is content to determine whether it is right for you or not.

I am new here and have no stake in the game, but that's far better than most software packages.
As an example, I just kicked down 225 dollars for Campaign Cartographer 3+ with a bunch of additions.
They have a 14 day money back guarantee and no one is over there bitching they aren't free.

I am just now getting in to Virtual Table Top and electronic maps.
It's so much easier then drawing on a mat.

My ONLY hesitancy in jumping in to FG right now is I am not quite sure that I need it.
All of my players are in front of me around a TV that I cast battle maps too.
I don't know what FG actually gets me in terms of functionality that I don't have.
I had a free account in Roll20 that I never used, although, that was before I got a TV to cast maps on to.

[Trenloe]

All of my players are in front of me around a TV that I cast battle maps too.
This is what I do all the time - see the various photos throughout this thread: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?33834-Map-resize-to-TV-resolution-for-Face-To-Face-games You might find that extension useful too. :)


I don't know what FG actually gets me in terms of functionality that I don't have.
I started with using FG in face-to-face games purely for displaying maps (and revealing the mask as the players explored). Then, for game systems were I have some content, I started using the combat tracker to track initiative and NPC hit points, and also make a lot of the attack and damage rolls from the NPC sheets.

I have a lot of minis and I love fidly bts on my maps - so I just use FG for the map, mask and some basic pointers to show area of effect, light radius and similar. But I know many people who use tokens for NPCs (and minis for PCs) or go all the way and use tokens for all creatures on the map.

You can go even further than this - track PC data, XP, treasure, and lots more - expand as you feel the need.

[Nylanfs]

How about this WESeib, https://imgur.com/gallery/FJN4B

[romelwell]

Dude... you need some of what I've been smoking this morning.
...).

UH...LOL. Funyuns and Cheetos for everybody! :cool:

[ddavison]

My ONLY hesitancy in jumping in to FG right now is I am not quite sure that I need it.
All of my players are in front of me around a TV that I cast battle maps too.
I don't know what FG actually gets me in terms of functionality that I don't have.
I had a free account in Roll20 that I never used, although, that was before I got a TV to cast maps on to.

It depends a bit on the ruleset and game you plan to use. For D&D (and many others)...

A few things to take a peek at
1. Campaign management
2. Party inventory management
3. Auto look distribution, including selling party loot back to vendors
4. Party XP tracking and auto-calculation
5. Combat Tracker - initiative, hit point tracking, effect and condition tracking, ease of reference
6. Encounter building
7. NPC wizard building spell setup by simply providing the Innate Spellcasting or Spellcasting trait info
8. Ease of reference for material you have
9. Story template usage for DM prep and story building -- or on the fly stuff like menus, NPC descriptions, village creations, etc.

[backwardoracle]

That sounds damn useful, I'll have to get a bigger laptop for face to face gaming in the pub :)

[WESeib]

Trenloe: That is an awesome plug-in that you wrote. Very cool. I just read that thread in its entirety.

ddavison: That's an impressive list. I suppose at some point my 2 notebooks, 50 sheets of loose leaf paper, and 20 notecards isn't really an effective system ;)

I'm half tempted to get FG just so that I can make a Rolemaster character.

Funny story, it's 1994 and I am 19 years old in the Navy.
I've been playing D&D for a couple years at this point, since High School, and loving it.

Enter a game I discovered in some little gaming store in Fresno, CA called Rolemaster.

I get all hyped up because of the crit charts in Arms & Claw Law.
"This is bad ***!" I think to myself.
We're going to try this!

I call a couple members in the group I'm running and pitch it.
They are excited about it.

I kick down for the Rolemaster box set.

Fast forward to that upcoming Saturday, we try and make characters, and then that Sunday.
We're looking around confused trying to figure it out. It's like Sunday at noon and we still haven't figured out what we are doing with it.

So, we decide we'll look at it next weekend and just play D&D with the little bit of the weekend we have left.
To this day... I have never made a Rolemaster character despite owning all of the books. I'm 43.

Part of it is the shame of failing with my old group. In fairness, none of us had ever played a D100 system.
It was all 1st and 2nd edition D&D. It was the only thing we had experience with.

I couldn't help but notice you have the Rolemaster Classic rules....
With damn near automatic character generation....

Edited to Add: Just jumped; I'm in. I guess this weekend is going to be installing and watching tons of videos! Y'all have a fantastic community here based strictly on the forums posts I've scoured over during the last two days. I'm sure I'll have a thousand questions, but I solemnly swear to use the forum search feature first.

[LordEntrails]

That sounds damn useful, I'll have to get a bigger laptop for face to face gaming in the pub :)
Or one of these (https://www.staples.com/aaxa-p2-b-pico-projector-with-2-5-hour-battery-mini-hdmi-onboard-media-player-130-lumens-gray/product_2846386?cid=PS:GooglePLAs:2846386&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=2846386&KPID=2846386&cvosrc=pla.dotcom-sales-google.Shredders%2C%20Projectors%20%26%20Office%20 Machines&cvo_crid=225644957271&cvo_campaign=951156402&gclid=CjwKCAjworfdBRA7EiwAKX9HeBfSH4BFyQBEtCSH5rR-6H75Leo2A8UQMLtBTa4zh8IsWcwwPCNH7RoCJWMQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds&akamai-feo=off) to throw it up on the wall!
(Note, I'm not endorsing that item, just the idea.)

[backwardoracle]

lol, I don't think I could get away with that but sounds fun to try

[bobahendrix]

Heidy ho neighborinos,
Does anyone know when the last sale was, for someone who just recently found this badass software, wishes he'd found it long ago, and wants to drop substantial moolah? Is it still on an eight week rotation? ;)

[Zacchaeus]

Heidy ho neighborinos,
Does anyone know when the last sale was, for someone who just recently found this badass software, wishes he'd found it long ago, and wants to drop substantial moolah? Is it still on an eight week rotation? ;)

Welcome to FG.

The last sale ended a couple of weeks or so ago. Various modules go on sale pretty much on a weekly basis. Sign up for the newsletter to get notified of what's on sale.

https://www.facebook.com/fantasygrounds/app/100265896690345/