Specialization for operative - problem with the skills

[KillerRabbit]

Hi

So one of my players is a operative, with the specialization detective. This allows him to get the skill focus feat for free for Culture and Sense motive as well as 1 free rank in those skills at each operative level.
The problem is with this free skill. if you put the skill as a rank, it will count against the given number on top op te skill list.
Is there any other way to give this free rank without it counting against this number?
You can argue that you can put it into misc, but that's confusing aswell, and also if it's a class skill you won't get the +3 the first time you put a rank into it.

The skills need a rework overall, since you get different bonusses and you can't specify them. So you have to track every bonus on paper. It needs to be divided into devine, insight, luck, ... bonusses; so you can easily see if a new bonus is higher than the last, since bonusses of the same type do not stack.

It would be really helpful, for me as a GM aswell to keep an eye on this and to help my new players better understand the system.

[Trenloe]

The skills need a rework overall, since you get different bonusses and you can't specify them. So you have to track every bonus on paper. It needs to be divided into devine, insight, luck, ... bonusses; so you can easily see if a new bonus is higher than the last, since bonusses of the same type do not stack.
Use effects for temporary bonuses.

[KillerRabbit]

That's making it even more complicated.. since most of them aren't temporary either

[stephan_]

I think the two ranks per level due to specialisation are calculated into the skill ranks automatically (at least they did with a newly created level 1 operative). I can confirm however that at least older operatives do sometimes have less skill ranks on the skill sheet than they should.

As the formula is relatively easy (class skill ranks + INT modifier+ 2 [in case of operative])*level (assuming no multiclass), you can always recalculate it and put it in the class & level window (magnifying class next to class), under rank and than total.

Yes, unfortunately, bonuses have to be checked automatically, I would however assume that it is a ton of work to build it in automatically.

[KillerRabbit]

Ah have to check if its auto added for specialization.

The bonusses dont have to be added auto, it would already be a lot of help if the misc box next to skill rank would be devided into all the different bonusses so it would be easier to track (racial bonus, insight, luck....). Thats just adding a few boxes so should be eady enough i think

[KillerRabbit]

Well stephan, it seems it's not auto added, since:

Class skill = 8 + Int mod = 1. This gives the 9 skill ranks he gaines each level, as so it is also coded in fantasy ground.
The two extra class skills for specialization are not included in this. And actually for the better, since you have to remember to always put those two in the same skills, which again is added to the confussion.

[stephan_]

Hm it might work not with some specialisations?

I tested it with Android-Ace Pilot-Operative-Specialisation (Ghost) and it does add up 8 + 4 (INT modifier) +2 = 14 skill ranks.

[Blahness98]

I believe there must have been a change to the skills sheet at some point. I remember (maybe) this being automated previously with the skill ranks moving into the proper specialization skills. You might want to toss this on the bug thread for Russ to take a closer look at. But I have tested it as well with a trio of operative specs and all received the proper number of ranks, but nothing was automatically placed. I have noticed a glitch that I have not been able to replicate consistently that does involve skill ranks. If anything, attempt to re-create the character and see if it still gives you the issue.

[Samarex]

I will take a look, but it should be automatic,
The free skills should have a little square next to them, and the free rank should apply automatic.
They dont show as part of the avable but they do show up in total.
So when you level you should see in chat Skill points added 6+2+2
That whould be 6+(int) +2 free.
Again the 2 free should auto apply to the the the Spec Free Skills and the remaining 8 can be put in other skills.

[Samarex]

Hi All,
Ok I just loaded into Live server and created a created a couple of Operatives. An yes for some reason the Free Skills are not getting marked on the Skills Tab.

I will find out why and get it corrected. ( I think some 1.0.12 code sneaked its way into the last Hot Fix.)

Now if your operative was made before 1.0.11b the Free skills should be marked on your Skills tab. If they are they will auto update when you level. So the automation is still there just new characters don't seem to get there Free skills marked.
Thats what makes me think it some code from 1.0.12. As I was changing the way the skills were looked up to see which ones to mark. But that code should not have been in the 1.0.11b Hot Fix.


Good news is that the total amount of skills you get are still correct, I created two with different stats and there Total came too
12/ 8 + 2 (14 Int) + 2 Free and 11/ 8+1(13 Int) + 2 Free.

So until I get 1.0.12 out just manually add you skills in.
I will get it fixed and make sure Free Skills gets marked on characters missing it when I do the migration code. (So characters will be corrected with marked skills and they will update proper after that.

[KillerRabbit]

Thanks!

[defiNately]

Do we have a fix coming or instructions on how to handle the Skill Focus feat? I've added the feat, but don't see a way to configure it to apply to the chosen skills. Improved Initiative also doesn't seem to be automatically adding to the previous total.

Thanks,
Nate

[Samarex]

Do we have a fix coming or instructions on how to handle the Skill Focus feat? I've added the feat, but don't see a way to configure it to apply to the chosen skills. Improved Initiative also doesn't seem to be automatically adding to the previous total.

Thanks,
Nate

Skills do not Auto apply bonus's from feats and abilities.

Skill Focus gives a +3 insight bonus to the selected skill. As long as you don't already have a insight bonus to that skill, just add +3 to the misc box for the skill.

Improved Init, on your main tab click the Magnify glass icon next to Init box. This opens the combat editor window, add your +4 to the Misc box under Init.

[balburdia]

Samarex, I think that after the last update, the operative's skills bugged again. Free skills do not appear when adding the feat specialization. And the sheets that were already made ended up disappearing the skills and the respective skill points.

[stephan_]

Might be a feature. (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?42165-Starfinder-Ruleset-Official-Products-bug-Reports&p=480793&viewfull=1#post480793)

Edit: Skills disappearing might be another ruleset update (though that would already have been quite some time ago, so make sure proficiencies are also applying correctly).

[balburdia]

Wonderful, I hadn't found this post while looking at the forum. thank you very much, solved my problem.

[pauljmendoza]

Is there a temporary fix for this? I have two operatives in a group who're pretty unhappy with this being broken again.

[stephan_]

As it's a feature (due to COM making it optional), I doubt it will be reset.

If you click the pencil icon on the skills tab and put the checkmark in front of the associated skills manually, they should show up correctly though.

Edit: See here (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?42165-Starfinder-Ruleset-Official-Products-bug-Reports&p=480793&viewfull=1#post480793).

[Samarex]

Is there a temporary fix for this? I have two operatives in a group who're pretty unhappy with this being broken again.

As others are saying, it was a update for COM to be able to turn off the free skills if you take one of the alternate abilities that take them away.
So operatives that still get free skills just go to edit mode on the skills tab and select the bubble next to there free skills. This will make them active as free skills.

[pauljmendoza]

Thank you, that worked just fine.