this product still alive?

[trolane]

its been almost a year since it was updated. No official releases of information from anyone in the news forums since a website update in dec.

what is going on ?

[DarkStar]

Well, it's just perfect, it doesn't need anymore updates. :P

[Oberoten]

Can't say I will exactly MIND the scripting capabilities when 1.6 comes around.

[richvalle]

I saw an email from one of the devs a little while ago. (Ged?) in the help forum so they are still around. :)

They are hard at work on the 1.06 update that we are all waiting for. Its going to be a major, major upgrade and I think they've had to go back and rework a lot of the original program to add the new functionalty.

In some ways it may have been easier to rebuild it from the ground up and make it a 2.0 release!

rv

[acmer]

It must have so many improvements they should call it Fantasy Heavens.

[DarkStar]

So far it's just our fantasy. ;P

[richvalle]

So far it's just our fantasy. ;P

LOL

True.

[Ged]

Product is alive and being developed. Much effort has been put into improving the internal workings of the software so that the update won't be just eye-candy and new features but also (hopefully, fingers crossed) robustness.

[trolane]

notice your in finland. Nightwish fan at all ?

[Ilwan]

I think FG is very much alive, but I understand the concerns. Many people are awaiting more news from the official side. Alot of new forum members take over, when older members step back a bit. Many people have problably stepped back, not because they dont use the software, but because the software is working for them and their games.
I have become quiet silent in these boards, but I play again on regular basis. But I dont have as many questions or needs to discuss something that works out quiet well for me. Also alot of user content has been created already amd the need for that is less than in the beginning (although there is still room for new content)
I think the new patch will boost more life into the boards, but I see no reason why FG should be dead.

[Oberoten]

I think another thing that might make the community more alive some kind of documentation of the XML tags et all. We are working at it but anything that those more seasoned in it's use can contribute is VERY VERY welcome.

[trolane]

you shouldn't have to know xml to use it is a big issue.
should be able to drag drop text boxes around like designing a form in infopath.

[Oberoten]

Indeed, some kind of design tool is HIGH on the wishlist.
Even if it was just so simple as to let us drag a box out on the PNG file and get back coordinates in a tag to paste into the XML. But preferably a drag and drop version.

[Cantstanzya]

you shouldn't have to know xml to use it is a big issue.
should be able to drag drop text boxes around like designing a form in infopath.You don't have to know xml to use the product, only to develop new rulesets. You don't need to know html to use the internet, but would need to know it to design your own web page. I'm sure that someone will point out that there are interfaces to design web pages, but with every interface there are limitations. I would much rather the developers focus on the product. If they were to develop an interface to design a ruleset, every time they were to add a feature they would have to update the interface to support it. Now you are talking about twice the develpment to add a feature. To me a design tool is very, very low on the wish list.

[Himo]

There has been alot of discussion about the xml over at https://www.fouruglymonsters.com/fumcomm/
in the Fantasy Grounds Discussion Forum.

If you are interested in making a ruleset or a new character sheet thats a good place to start. If you can't find what you are looking for just ask we have alot of people who have made a ruleset or adapted the character sheet.

[Oberoten]

You don't have to know xml to use the product, only to develop new rulesets. You don't need to know html to use the internet, but would need to know it to design your own web page. I'm sure that someone will point out that there are interfaces to design web pages, but with every interface there are limitations. I would much rather the developers focus on the product. If they were to develop an interface to design a ruleset, every time they were to add a feature they would have to update the interface to support it. Now you are talking about twice the develpment to add a feature. To me a design tool is very, very low on the wish list.


Without some kind of design tool the product will never really reach the masses which is a question of survivability/profit for the product. If there are more options out there on what to use the program for, it will get more users.

As with all software we are talking the cycle of "upgrade and maintenance" which is really what costs the most for the programmers. Now if the maintenance and support would get easier there is quite a bit of money to rack in there.

That said the tools do not need to be terribly advanced... Just something simple to add data-nodes for the most used things. Like data-lists, values and positions.

[DarkStar]

Without some kind of design tool the product will never really reach the masses which is a question of survivability/profit for the product. If there are more options out there on what to use the program for, it will get more users.

Someone, either SmiteWorks, or another external company (like Digital Adventures) should sign agreements with various companies holding copyright for different RPG systems and start working on rulesets for every possible (popular) game, be it Star Wars d20, Call of Cthulhu, Fading Suns, WoD, Warhammer and so on.

Of course, this would be not free, but commercial instead and part of the revenue could go to the copyright holders OR they should agree anyway, since you still need the rulebooks to run a game in FG, so it actually boosts their sales - they should understand it.

[Kalan]

All I can say to anyone attempting this with non-OGL companies - good luck. I know DA was talking to FanPro to work on an "official" Shadowrun ruleset.

I don't honestly think many companies will willingly license their products for the simple fact that the Nature of the Rulesets is they are transmitted to each player connecting - essentially giving them access to those books for "free". Granted they'd have to be in FG in order to use it...but still.

On the other hand, if all that was ever included in the rulesets were "rules" only - that I think you could see some progress on. But I don't know the whole ins/outs of Copyright law...so who the heck knows...

As for modifying the XML. XML is not a language as such, but only a way of structuring things. The commands and such in the ruleset coding are specific to FG. Once you learn what the commands do, it doesn't take long to make your own additions. All XML does is standardize the layouts and formats for that data transmission.

Even if there were to be tools to make one's own rulesets - you'd still see only specific people making and distributing them...in a way, much like what one sees for Neverwinter Nights.

That said - there are LOTS of people with the experience working on rulesets that more often than not there's something someone has created that they'd be willing to share. And some of us (myself mostly) who are still learning things, but are willin to pimp ourselves out ;)

Bleh...I ramble...back to the slave grind I go...

Peace!

[DarkStar]

I don't honestly think many companies will willingly license their products for the simple fact that the Nature of the Rulesets is they are transmitted to each player connecting - essentially giving them access to those books for "free".

Yes, that's the main drawback in copyright point of view. But what anyone really needs to run his favourite system is the character sheet. It doesn't even have to be fully automated. Now, since most of the RPG companies post their sheets on their websites and also allow you to copy the paper version as much as you want ('til you can wallpaper your room in character sheets, for example), I don't see a real reason why anyone should think a sole character sheet an infringement. It's just another way of presenting the same.

Ged wrote about it here (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showpost.php?p=20923&postcount=4), but SmiteWorks chickens in that matter. :P Perhaps someone should talk to those companies about charsheets, actually, not whole rulesets. I mean, 100% character sheet and 0% rules in the program - you must obtain a rulebook in order to play and no one downloads anything from you for free - besides the sheet, which can already be downloaded from the producer's website...

[Cantstanzya]

Without some kind of design tool the product will never really reach the masses which is a question of survivability/profit for the product. If there are more options out there on what to use the program for, it will get more users.I completly disagree. By creating an interface for a design tool they would spend just as much time on the design tool as they would for the product itself, and it would never truely accomplish what everyone would expect of it. It's not like they have created a format of their own, it's xml. Not very complicated, just a small learning curve. There would be a learning curve if there was a graphical interface. Yea it would be pretty, but give me text anyday, it's less restrictive and in some cases faster than an interface.

[Oberoten]

I completly disagree. By creating an interface for a design tool they would spend just as much time on the design tool as they would for the product itself, and it would never truely accomplish what everyone would expect of it. It's not like they have created a format of their own, it's xml. Not very complicated, just a small learning curve. There would be a learning curve if there was a graphical interface. Yea it would be pretty, but give me text anyday, it's less restrictive and in some cases faster than an interface.

XML is not deciding the tags, that is entirely in the reading program's task. And SW has indeed created the tags and the format used.

A broader base of users is more important than bells and whistles for long term survivability.

[richvalle]

But won't bells and whistles also bring in new users? I think a lot of users were sucked in just because you can roll 'dice'. You can't get any more 'bells and whistles' then that. :)

Not that I think you are wrong about needed a better way to create rules sets. I do think more functionality to the software should take higher priority though.

rv

[Oberoten]

But won't bells and whistles also bring in new users? I think a lot of users were sucked in just because you can roll 'dice'. You can't get any more 'bells and whistles' then that. :)

Not that I think you are wrong about needed a better way to create rules sets. I do think more functionality to the software should take higher priority though.

rv


Of course they do, once people know what they are and how to use them. :)
I am admittedly one of the people chomping at the bit to get to personalize anything I get my hands on... (Like cutting up the brand new computer case with a sidegrinder... )

[Griogre]

I don't honestly think many companies will willingly license their products for the simple fact that the Nature of the Rulesets is they are transmitted to each player connecting - essentially giving them access to those books for "free". Granted they'd have to be in FG in order to use it...but still.

Completely agree and I've said so before. There are also fixes for this as discussed elsewhere.

[Griogre]

In my opinion the most important thing about any rule set is the character sheet – preferably a interactive updatable one – everything else is fluff. Conveniently, most rpg game companies give these things away and they almost all say you may copy for personal use.

If Smiteworks was going to make a tool for helping to make rule sets, I think a character sheet maker with the ability to make different tabbed pages of stat boxes, skill lists and miscellaneous static and scrolling lists and boxes that could do basic math on values in other boxes would be extremely convenient and not step on any rpg company’s toes or give a bad impression.

[Oberoten]

In my opinion the most important thing about any rule set is the character sheet – preferably a interactive updatable one – everything else is fluff. Conveniently, most rpg game companies give these things away and they almost all say you may copy for personal use.

If Smiteworks was going to make a tool for helping to make rule sets, I think a character sheet maker which the ability to make different tabbed pages of stat boxes, skill lists and miscellaneous static and scrolling lists and boxes that could do basic math on values in other boxes would be extremely convenient and not step on any rpg company’s toes or give a bad impression.

*AMEN* This is the tool I have been longing for the most.

[Callum]

As for modifying the XML. XML is not a language as such, but only a way of structuring things. The commands and such in the ruleset coding are specific to FG. Once you learn what the commands do, it doesn't take long to make your own additions.
True - but it's that "once you learn what the commands do" bit that is frustrating people. Everyone has to blunder about, maybe with a bit of help from the kind and capable people on these boards. If there was some proper support and explanation of the commands, etc., it would go a long way to removing this issue and helping people to get the most out of FG.