Map Layers

[Tailz Silver Paws]

I have just been working on a map that represents a cart track through a forest and something suddenly popped into my head. It was when I was working on the trees, as I have created my trees so that the shadow of the foliage and the tree trunk are a part of the map, while the top of the tree (branches and foliage) are a token.

I was thinking, it would be neat if Fantasy Grounds could work with layers the same as Photoshop does. Now I don’t mean that it could have unlimited layers and what not like it Photoshop. But lets think about it like this:

Layer 1 – The background – This is the layer that your map is inserted into.

https://www.wyldfurr.com/map.jpg

Layer 2 – Tokens – This is the layer that tokens are rendered on.

Layer 3 – Foreground – This could be a layer that you could insert a different image into, which has transparent areas that render over Layers 2 and 1.

https://www.wyldfurr.com/map.png

Eg: I make my map as I was talking about above. I make the background image, which has the grass, the gravel path, the tree shadows and the tree trunks. I then create a second image that is mostly transparent except for the treetops.

When set in Fantasy Grounds both are rendered as the one "Map" togeather with the tokens rendered between them.

https://www.wyldfurr.com/map2.jpg

So we end up with the result above, all rendered togeather, complete with tokens of a man on the highway about to get muged by a band of orcs running out from under the trees.

Aieeeeee!! Run little man, run!

[Jozie]

That would be nice, very nice looking map.

[Sigurd]

I can see a number of advantages to this: Icons the players can't move but the DM can (secret rooms anyone). More elaborate illustrations and general gaming goodness.

Unfortunately this is a real complication for the program and I don't know how hard it would be to set up. The graphics not only have to be displayed on one system but updated and sinced across server and Client(s).


sigurd

[Tailz Silver Paws]

I can see a number of advantages to this: Icons the players can't move but the DM can (secret rooms anyone). More elaborate illustrations and general gaming goodness.

Are you thinking that you can 'move' the 3rd layer? I was thinking that the 3rd layer would act like an Animation cell. Its mostly clear and you can add artwork to it, but once its done its fixed like the background which it is laid over.

eg: in the sample I gave, I would not be able to 'move' the tree tops, although I could in the origional artwork make them slightly transparent to show whats under them.


Unfortunately this is a real complication for the program and I don't know how hard it would be to set up. The graphics not only have to be displayed on one system but updated and sinced across server and Client(s).


sigurd

I agree, but I thought I might voice the idea anyway.

[joshuha]

We sorta had a similiar discussion like this when dealing with lighting. We though it would be nice to have a "lighting" layer where you could define walls/boundaries and what not. Then when a map is masked you could place light sources on the map (with radius/cones) and they would reveal masked portions of the map until they hit a wall/object in the lighting layer.

[Sigurd]

I think you could get away with 2 DM only layers:

One above the action (Ie the first layer) it might hold tree tops or ledges or permanent symbols. If the Dm could move items on it but not the players the DM might be able to have a "your turn" icon he could place on top of other graphics to make it clear. Room numbers too perhaps.
With transparencies it might also handle lighting.


One below the action (3rd layer down) - this would be for concealing stuff for the players to discover. Currently players can't help but move carefully placed icons when they try to reach for their own character icons.


Sigurd

[heruca]

Great idea, Tailz.

[Craw]

I'd really like to see separately lockable and maskable "DM only" tokens. This would allow the DM to lay down environmental/effect/placable tokens ahead of time or on the fly. Traps, secret doors, hidden monsters, etc. would then be a breeze.

[Griogre]

I'd really like to see separately lockable and maskable "DM only" tokens. This would allow the DM to lay down environmental/effect/placable tokens ahead of time or on the fly. Traps, secret doors, hidden monsters, etc. would then be a breeze.

I like this idea. This is probably the simplist idea it would not require anything by the developers other than adding a couple of flags to the tokens and some code to tell whether to draw or not draw the token on the client side.

This would work particulary well with a feature that saves tokens on maps between sessions.

[Tailz Silver Paws]

We sorta had a similiar discussion like this when dealing with lighting. We though it would be nice to have a "lighting" layer where you could define walls/boundaries and what not. Then when a map is masked you could place light sources on the map (with radius/cones) and they would reveal masked portions of the map until they hit a wall/object in the lighting layer.

I can understand your point, but I think it would require the designers to code a special rendering system that renders the light effects, eg: witht he map masked does the like simply just unmask or fade?, etc.

I think it owuld require special code within FG to make it work.

What I was thinking about was something more simple. Effecively it is already there. Your tokens live on a layer over your background map image in its own layer. Placing a single image into a layer above them should not be too hard?

I just throught it would be nifty and make some effects easyer to do - especialy with the trees I was working on, as currently the tops of the trees are all tokens, and that could be anoying when trying to move other tokens.

Something else I would like to see are numeric zoom controls.

[EyeBall]

Keep in mind that I am beginner at all of this. I had an issue with the amount of tokens displayed. At one point, I had around 40 tokens displayed on the map. One of the players lost connection - yay charter - and we he reconnected it crashed the game out. We have had similar instances of people losing con due to their ISP, and upon reconnecting had no issue. At that time, as few as 4-8 tokens were placed. Occasionally there was an issue of a token transfer not working, but nothing major.

Has anyone else experienced this?

What I have been doing as of late is using pins to act as hidden npcs and such. Also, if there is a hidden room or something of that effect, I create it ahead of time and link it on the map via pin. If the PC's discover it, I open a new map with the new room. If they do not, no harm no foul.

As far as traps go, I use the pins overtime on such things. Lately I have even taken pictures of traps and such from other games, and scanned them in as pngs. Its quite interesting to see a floor tile with spikes jutting out suddenly pop up on your screen as the DM is telling you that you have just sprung a trap. My players have responded well to it.

Just thought I would add my two copper.

Of course, I do think that multiple layers would be a great idea. I especially like the idea of the lighting. It has always kind of disappointed me that the lighting effects for the game do not cover the maps as well.

EYE

[Trentos]

I am a new user as well. What do you mean when you refer to "pins" to mark your traps etc on the map? It's been my experience that characters are able to see tokens (is that what you mean?) on the map even if it is masked.

Any insight on that would be great. I would love to be able to remind myself where the traps are for smoother play.

[joeru]

I am a new user as well. What do you mean when you refer to "pins" to mark your traps etc on the map? It's been my experience that characters are able to see tokens (is that what you mean?) on the map even if it is masked.

Any insight on that would be great. I would love to be able to remind myself where the traps are for smoother play.

Right click on the map, click on layers, click on enable shortcuts. Then drag any npc/story page or such onto the map and release. Voilà, a shortcut (aka. a pin).

[Trentos]

Oh.. my... word!! Lol thanks!!

[Jozie]

Four Ugly Monsters have a great "free" tutorial explaining how to use pin shortcuts. I would suggest checking them out.