Campaign Cartographer Bundle of Holding

[Jay_NOLA]

Bundle of Holding has a Campaign Cartographer Bundle

https://bundleofholding.com/presents/Cartographer

[Nylanfs]

HAHA, beat you by a minute (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?43819-There-goes-the-rest-of-my-budget). :)

[LordEntrails]

Yes, but now that you've bumped his thread, Jay's thread is at the top of the list, therefore it must be a better thread!

Thanks to both of you, going to go get myself in trouble now...

[damned]

I have finally bought CC... now when am I supposed to find time to use it!!!

[LordEntrails]

I have finally bought CC... now when am I supposed to find time to use it!!!
LOL, that's your problem.

One piece of advice, with two parts;
CC is a CAD program not a graphics program, it acts differently (vector based), do the tutorials, they will shorten your learning curve and you will end up with a couple of cool maps in short order.

[seycyrus]

Note: I have all of profantasy's products already, but I am curious.

Do we know what is included in the Bonus collection? "11 style, symbol and Tool sets" and " Battle Map sets" ...What does that mean in terms of annuals etc? What if I only owned some annuals, how would I know if I was overlapping with the deal?

[LordEntrails]

Note: I have all of profantasy's products already, but I am curious.

Do we know what is included in the Bonus collection? "11 style, symbol and Tool sets" and " Battle Map sets" ...What does that mean in terms of annuals etc? What if I only owned some annuals, how would I know if I was overlapping with the deal?
We don't know exactly what annuals the things come from. Their is a description pop-up link that you can do that tells you the names of the various styles. You would have to then cross-reference that to the annuals index.

It doesn't appear to be the complete annuals, but only bits and pieces of them. I don't know what overlap it might include with teh free annuals samples that are released periodically.

[Trenloe]

There are clickable links for each specific item in the the details window - this links to the annual year and month entry for each offering. It also states: "This offer presents many installments from past Cartographer's Annual releases, 2007-2017, such as these Style Packs and symbol sets."

I love Campaign Cartographer and also ProFantasy. But this offer is a little bit weird, depending on what you're looking for - if you intend to get some of the annuals you may not be saving that much overall - i.e. you're getting DD3+ for$35 instead of $40 RRP. But if you just intend to do some dungeon mapping and not buy any annuals, then this could be a very good offer for you - selecting the best months from the annuals that apply to dungeon mapping, so you don't have to spend lots of money on the annuals and get a bunch of stuff you may not use.

[Ellspeth]

LOL, that's your problem.

One piece of advice, with two parts;
CC is a CAD program not a graphics program, it acts differently (vector based), do the tutorials, they will shorten your learning curve and you will end up with a couple of cool maps in short order.

Oh auto-CAD as opposed to a photo shop type program or GIMP? Finally something I was familiar with before I got into gaming. I'll have to consider this.

[Nylanfs]

The original engine was based off one of the earliest CAD programs back in the 80's called FastCAD.

[mac40k]

I too am looking to be sold on this bundle. I'm no artist and have found no computer graphics program that can make me one. It's just another tool like a brush or pencil in the hands of an artist, but in my hands, it's not much. That being said, I have used Dundjunni in the past to create some decent battle maps. I've also always understood CC to have a steep learning curve and knowing myself well, I don't see myself investing a lot of time to master it. How much learning does one have to do to get to the point of being able to create usable maps? I'm not really interested in creating dungeons (I'm more into modern and sci fi settings), but DD seems to be the tool needed for floor plans of buildings, etc. Is CC3+ just for geographical maps? Can I create battle maps with it or is the DD add on a must for this? I know a someone that has been using Dungeon Painter Studio to create battle maps and while it is still in early access, it only costs $15. That's far more reasonable to me price-wise if CC can't produce floor plans without the DD add on. OTOH, I'd be interested in hearing what makes DD worth the extra money.

[damned]

DPS is a great product.
If you are happy with DPS then stick with it.
DPS will make maps much quicker than this,
With time and effort you will make much better maps with CC3+ but only you can decide if you have the time and willingness to spend using/learning.

[Trenloe]

I too am looking to be sold on this bundle. I'm no artist and have found no computer graphics program that can make me one. It's just another tool like a brush or pencil in the hands of an artist, but in my hands, it's not much. That being said, I have used Dundjunni in the past to create some decent battle maps. I've also always understood CC to have a steep learning curve and knowing myself well, I don't see myself investing a lot of time to master it. How much learning does one have to do to get to the point of being able to create usable maps? I'm not really interested in creating dungeons (I'm more into modern and sci fi settings), but DD seems to be the tool needed for floor plans of buildings, etc. Is CC3+ just for geographical maps? Can I create battle maps with it or is the DD add on a must for this? I know a someone that has been using Dungeon Painter Studio to create battle maps and while it is still in early access, it only costs $15. That's far more reasonable to me price-wise if CC can't produce floor plans without the DD add on. OTOH, I'd be interested in hearing what makes DD worth the extra money.
Getting Dungeon Designer gives you more symbols and tiles to use - which are always good for battlemaps. It also has some extra tools which make it easier for drawing rooms and corridors. See the info here: https://secure.profantasy.com/products/dd3_detail.asp

CC3+ can be used for battlemaps - it comes with some symbol sets and there are a couple of free symbol sets to download - plus you can use other open source symbol sets.

I have no artistic talent either, but I can product good looking maps pretty easily. As an example, see the map in this post: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?20879-Map-Making-Software-summary&p=284653&viewfull=1#post284653 As mentioned in the post, this was produced with CC3+ and the Jon Roberts style. Look at the video done by Xorn that shows how he made that map.

Yes, CC3 has a learning curve - any powerful piece of software has a learning curve, no matter what anyone tells you. People frequently complain about the learning curve of Fantasy Ground - usually because they make no effort to spend even 30 minutes learning it. The same is true for Campaign Cartographer - take a bit of time to learn it, follow some of the tutorials (they'll also produce nice maps as the end result).

The thing to remember about any mapping application - you won't be able to produce an amazing looking map in 5 minutes - with the freedom to do lots of customizations. That is - you're not placing pre-designed tiles one at a time like some mapping applications - which produces maps fairly quickly, but you are very limited to the shape and styles of the tiles available. But, with a bit of work (only a few hours) learning how to use CC3+, you can make very good looking battle maps - the one I reference above took 23 minutes - the video shows that!

EDIT: Some additional info here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?20879-Map-Making-Software-summary&p=312748&viewfull=1#post312748

[Trenloe]

Have a look at the individual symbol sets in the bundle of holding - if you like a couple of those (and most of them can be used for non-dungeon battlemaps) then it is worth getting the full bundle - you'll have a lot more options in styles, fills and symbols.

[Jay_NOLA]

Some quick tips and some stuff to help answer some questions:

CC3 by itself can do dungeons but it doesn't give much in the way of tools & symbols for that unless you have the DD3 add-on.

Well over 1000 additional symbols can be gotten for CC3/CC3+ for free so that can give you all the stuff for dungeons, etc without having to get DD3 or other products. Check out the Interesting, Important and Helpful topics - Free Symbols, Resources, Tutorials & More thread (sticky) on the Profantasy forums.


For learning to use the program the various video tutorials on YouTube are your best way to go and start off with. Many people have reported that learned to use the program only after watching and doing the video tutorials as you could follow along step by step and everything was explained in good detail. (Also, always check the comment and notes for the videos as occasionally you may have links to tutorial files or some additional information on the video.

You can make your first full land map in about 2-3 hours with the tutorials and make your first dungeon in about 2.

Also, ProFantasy has this in the works which will be usable with CC3+ to let you customize them:

https://rpgmaps.profantasy.com/?p=4267#comments

[LordEntrails]

Oh auto-CAD as opposed to a photo shop type program or GIMP? Finally something I was familiar with before I got into gaming. I'll have to consider this.

That CC3+ uses a CAD (Computer Aided Design) as opposed to a image manipulation program means that, for the most part, instead of working with pixels, you are working with geometric shapes. So you don't make a make that is 5000 x 4000 pixels in size, rather you create a map that is 400 x 500 feet in size. When you place a chest symbol, you can scale it to 2x3 feet or such. When you draw a room or street, you draw it in the actual size (i.e. 20 feet wide and 100 feet long). When you go to export or print, you decide what the scale is, so you can print 5 ft of map to 1 inch of paper, or for FG 5 feet is 50 pixels etc.

This means that you can do something like I am with Undermountain. These maps are something like several thousand feet across, yet I can export it to print a wall poster 24 x36 inches at 600 dpi, but I can also zoom in and export a 100 x 150 foot section at 20 pixels per foot so that I have a high resolution battle map. All in handled in one file. So if I change the location of the furniture in the room because I've changed the encounter for the battlemap, it changes on the overall map so when I export the poster, it's "correct".

Now what this means when you go to try and create a map, is you don't necessarily approach things in the same order. Commands are done in what is called the Action-Object approach, so you select the command you are going to do (erase, change properties, draw a circle, etc) and then you select the object (line, etc) that you are going to do the command on. And when you "draw" things, their is a recommend approach. For a regional map you draw the background land, then you the elevations and seas/lakes. Then then you place symbols for cities, forests, etc. Then the roads and rivers. CC3+ uses "Sheets" like Gimp uses layers, so something on a higher sheet is drawn over the top of what's on a lower sheet.

Don't be worried that you can't blend or fade things like rivers into the background or can't have highly detailed symbols (or "brushes" as PSP I think calls them) because you can use both vector symbols or bitmap symbols. Bitmap symbols don't scale infinitely like a vector symbol, but it also means you can use any image you have as a symbol (or can find online with appropriate usage restrictions). And those Sheets I mentioned before can have effects on them that apply to everything on that sheet. Such as glows, edge fades, textures, blurs, etc. So all those lakes I put on a the Lakes sheet can have a nice blue inner fade so they go from light to dark in the middle and apply a wave type texture to give variations to the color. These effects also mean that if I don't like the color blue of the glow, I can just change it in an interface and it affects ALL lakes (or roads, or mountains, or dungeon walls/floors, etc).

The learning curve.... It's a powerful program. And I learn new stuff all the time. You won't learn everything about it in a week or a month. But, if you can drop any "bad" habits you have from other programs, and do the tutorials, you can start making pretty cool maps in a few hours. For example, this post (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?38853-Lord-Entrail-s-Maps) has the maps I made as part of the tutorials, most of these probably took me 30-90 minutes each to do the related tutorial and create the map. In my opinion, most people with the right attitude and no particular artistic skill can, using CC3+, in about 12 hours of practice start making a couple of different types of maps that are completely new and to their design that are easily better than 80% of the maps you will find in products on the DMsGuild.

EDIT: Oh, and the PF forums are as friendly and helpful as the FG forums are. Not as active, but still a great group of folks.

[Ellspeth]

Thank you Lord Entrails, this was really helpful. I want something I could build an entire village or community within, as well as broader terrain. I find GIMP nice for building single rooms etc, but not so much for larger scale stuff. I have a few programs like Dungeon Painter etc but have a little difficulty translating how I was trained to them.
One other question, since I am creating for digital, can I build the map and after saving it load it into something like Corel Artist Essentials for adding specialized effects?

[LordEntrails]

...
One other question, since I am creating for digital, can I build the map and after saving it load it into something like Corel Artist Essentials for adding specialized effects?
You won't be able to load the native file, since it is a .fcw file. But, you can export it as a png, tif, jog etc and then do what you want to the image in another program.

But, imo, as you learn the program, I think you will find you will be able to achieve most of those specialized effects in CC3+ itself. I'm sure there are a few things you won't be able to do or might find is done better in something else, but you might be surprised by how versatile the effects are.

[Jay_NOLA]

One quick thing about Photoshop brushes, since they got mentioned, and CC3/CC3+ you can turn them into symbols for CC3/CC3+ one of the old Annuals (September 2010) dealt with this.

To better under stand how layers and sheets work in CC3/CC3+ see this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Co8JtqGPTCU

@elspeth One thing to remember before you export to a jpeg, png, etc. to work on a map in a photo editor is that you can do a good bit of effects in CC3/CC3+ you have to turn on and set up effects. So do be a aware of this as it can be less time consuming to have CC3/CC3+ do it than going and doing it in nother program. Joe Sweeny does this in a few of his video tutorials

For stuff like cities you'll eventually want to get the CD3 expansion as that is dedicated to that and has a lot of city building symbols. (Although, you can get a ton of free city building symbols online for the program that will let you make a good large town/city.)

[LordEntrails]

Oh, I'll also add, if you like Mike Schley's maps, you can get the Symbol Set 4 add-on. Which has a bunch of symbols done by Mike and has various templates that setup effects and such in Mike's style.

[Halfront]

@LordEntrals - That's actually the main reason I bought CC3+ was for the Schley style:)

As already stated in previous posts watch the videos and you will be surpirsed at how quickly you will become familiar with the program.

[Ellspeth]

You have all been very helpful, and because many who responded here are knowledgeable about a lot of this stuff and I respect their knowledge I went ahead and and invested including the bonus material. I am not as concerned about the time or learning curve (with the kids and most of the grandkids grown up time is the resource I have in abundance, in that respect getting old is cool), I was more concerned about finding something that offered a bit more versatility for what I wanted to do.
CAD I have worked with some back in the 90's, but geez, even blue line drafting on vellum, with mechanical pencils, and straight edges, squares, compasses, you know, before computers were common, had one hell of a learning curve. And ongoing learning has been shown to lengthen and improve the quality of life, slowing down the aging process in the brain.
So thanks, it took me an hour just to figure out how to download it and then another to install it. :)

[Nylanfs]

There is plenty of tips and map advice here also.

https://www.cartographersguild.com/content.php

[mac40k]

I'm pretty close to pulling the trigger on the basic collection, but I'm not convinced that really need the bonus collection since I'm more interested in modern and sci fi. I'm thinking I'd be better off with the basic + Cosmographer 3 and maybe the modern symbol pack. I also already have a ton of Dundjinni png files I can use as well.

[Trenloe]

I'm pretty close to pulling the trigger on the basic collection, but I'm not convinced that really need the bonus collection since I'm more interested in modern and sci fi. I'm thinking I'd be better off with the basic + Cosmographer 3 and maybe the modern symbol pack.
Yeah, probably.

[Jay_NOLA]

I'm pretty close to pulling the trigger on the basic collection, but I'm not convinced that really need the bonus collection since I'm more interested in modern and sci fi. I'm thinking I'd be better off with the basic + Cosmographer 3 and maybe the modern symbol pack. I also already have a ton of Dundjinni png files I can use as well.

For sci fi modern the DD3 may be helpful combined with Cosmo depending on what you are mapping, but your going to be better off getting Cosmographer and the SS3 add-on it seems. Also, one of the free downloads on the ProFantasy site is a sampler of various Annuals and has some sci-fi ones symbols for battle maps in it. Plus you can get a ton of free symbols for CC3 in the sticky thrat I mentioned a few posts back.

Note: That some of the Annuals have videos and you can download high resolution of those videos if you look closely on the Annual page for that issue. The sci-fi battlemaps one in the free annual sampler is one of those than the version you'll find on Youtube of them.

[LordEntrails]

I mentioned it before, but without a link, if you do buy it, go to this page https://forum.profantasy.com/comments.php?DiscussionID=1230&page=1#Item_1
And read through those top resources. Adding them into CC with give you tens of thousands (? I've never counted them!) more symbols.

Also be aware, when you add symbols to CC, through that link or from your own images, CC does NOT copy them into the map file, it references their location on your computer. That means you want to setup your custom symbol directories intelligently, and then never move them. More in the Tome of Ultimate Mapping on it. Read that section before you start doing anything with custom symbols you want to keep.

[Jay_NOLA]

the free annuals for CC3+ can be gotten here.

https://secure.profantasy.com/products/subsamples.asp

The December 2009 & July 2012 issues in the Sampler have some videos in a zip files that you can download. So check out the pages for those two issues and be aware that you have multiple zip files for them. The resolution is better than the youtube version that the sampler points you to.

[Minty23185Fresh]

So I'm just wondering... I pretty happy with my multi-application kludge of Inkscape, Tiled, Paint.net and Krita (all free applications). But a dedicated cartography program would certainly have its advantages. Being the skeptic that I am, are there rumors in the mill that the next big revision, CC4, is waiting in the wings? And I'm going to jump in both feet just to find the pool is being drained.

[Trenloe]

Being the skeptic that I am, are there rumors in the mill that the next big revision, CC4, is waiting in the wings? And I'm going to jump in both feet just to find the pool is being drained.
I haven't heard anything like that. In fact, Profantasy are only just finishing up converting all of their products to CC3+ (from CC3) - there are still a couple to go. And, if there was a new version coming along soon, historically they've been very good at giving reasonable upgrades/early access to new versions.

But... maybe keep an eye on this thread in case they let anything slip: https://forum.profantasy.com/comments.php?DiscussionID=8404 ;)

[Minty23185Fresh]

... historically they've been very good at giving reasonable upgrades/early access to new versions.

Thanks Trenloe, I went to the Profantasy web site, and just as you mention... They have multiple protections against this sort of thing. (1) 14-day money back return, (2) 3-month free upgrade for major revision and (3) 3 month to 1 year 60% discount, should a major revision come out in that time period.

[LordEntrails]

Yea, I tend to pay attention to their forums and no mention of CC4 (or any other version) has ever been substantiated. They do regular maintanence releases, that include new functionality, but major versions changes are a long time in between.

Let see, I started with CC2v6, a couple months before CC2 Pro came out. My kids were not born at that time (if I remember correctly) and my oldest is 20. After 2 Pro was 3, and a couple of years ago 3+.

Not that such history really predicts the future very well, but if it does, I think that means 5 years until the next version?

[dragonheels]

I purchased the total Bundle.
Until now, I like it very much.
I'm now seraching resources to be able to create maps for Deadlands reloaded. Desert, Canyons, far west towns...
Have you any advices?

[Nylanfs]

Your best bet would be to talk to the people in the Map section here (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?90-Maps), the Cartographer's Guild (https://www.cartographersguild.com/content.php), and to find real world maps from the same time period and try and simulate them.

[Jay_NOLA]

The free CSUAC and CSUAC 2.0 will have some symbols that can help. The Dundjinni symbols you see used in some CC3/CC3+ maps will be in those since the CSUAC & CSUAC 2.0 are made from Dundjinni forum symbols.

If you waybackmachine PEG's website you can get a Deadlands map that was made with CC2 which you can use in CC3/CC3+

The 2017 Annual has an issue you may find helpful.

https://www.profantasy.com/annual/2017/march17.html

Ralf of Profantasy plays Deadlands: Reloaded and he ought to be able to give you some advice an point you to some resources. He has posted his Deadlands maps and files on the ProFantasy forums and blog. (You can also find some other Deadlands maps by searching the forums and ProFantasy blog just use the word Deadlands.) So I'd ask your question on the ProFantasy forums.

Sadizzm has done a lot of Deadlands maps with CC3/CC3+ if you search Deadlands on the you can find his posts on the ProFantasy forums. He has his maps on Deviant Art for download and has information on and links to any symbols, etc. on the pages for his maps on Deviant Art.


For western town building Inkwell Ideas has a nice set of western buildings pngs that you can make into CC3+ symbols. If you can't get any free buildings.

[Jay_NOLA]

So I'm just wondering... I pretty happy with my multi-application kludge of Inkscape, Tiled, Paint.net and Krita (all free applications). But a dedicated cartography program would certainly have its advantages. Being the skeptic that I am, are there rumors in the mill that the next big revision, CC4, is waiting in the wings? And I'm going to jump in both feet just to find the pool is being drained.

No plans for CC4 are in the pipe and a lot of CC3+ stuff being worked on. Right now ProFantasy is working on getting the old WWII Atlas converted over. That is in Beta currently. A new version of the Temples, Tombs, and catacombs for CC3+ (It has been in the works for nearly two years.), and they have a token expansion in the works for July. After that I'm guessing that Dioramas will get a new version.

When ever a new version is released ProFantasy makes it available at a discount for previous buyers an updates older product so they can be used with it. (The updated versions are free so the CC2 Dioramas has an updated version that works in CC3 and now one that works in CC3+) The only time an updated product isn't free is if it is a major revision (new version) Character Artist 2 to Character Artist 3 for example (And, they gave a big discount to the new version if you have the old.)

So you are totally safe to jump in with both feet right now. The only 2 ProFantasy products you might want to ask about before buying are Dioramas and The Temples one to see how far those are away from the new version.

[Trenloe]

... The Temples one to see how far those are away from the new version.
Temples are done. It was announced in this week's blog: https://rpgmaps.profantasy.com/?p=4382

[LordEntrails]

The free CSUAC and CSUAC 2.0 will have some symbols that can help. The Dundjinni symbols you see used in some CC3/CC3+ maps will be in those since the CSUAC & CSUAC 2.0 are made from Dundjinni forum symbols.
Do you know if the symbols that were on the MapForge forums for awhile (before it too was closed) are in the CSUAC or CSUAC2 installs? I think they were an attempt to replicate the Dunjinni achieves, but I'm not sure.

[mattekure]

Its probably been posted elsewhere, but there are a lot of graphics resources for CC3+ on the Vintyri Project site https://www.vintyri.org/vintyri/. It has the CSUAC, Dundjinni archives, Bogies mapping objects, and the Vintyri collection with installers for CC3+. Its a very useful addition.

[Jay_NOLA]

Temples are done. It was announced in this week's blog: https://rpgmaps.profantasy.com/?p=4382

The Temples that came out this week is the compatibility update. Temples was a CC2 product. It latter had a CC3 conversion so it would works with CC3 and now a CC3+ compatibility version so it would work with CC3+.

A new version has been in the works that will ad some new maps and redo the symbols. That will come out after Dioramas 3+. See these blog posts:

https://rpgmaps.profantasy.com/?p=4343

https://rpgmaps.profantasy.com/?p=3717

[Jay_NOLA]

Do you know if the symbols that were on the MapForge forums for awhile (before it too was closed) are in the CSUAC or CSUAC2 installs? I think they were an attempt to replicate the Dunjinni achieves, but I'm not sure.

The CSUAC and CSUAC 2.0 symbols were some of the ones on Map Forge. The Dundjinni Archives files has the others.

https://www.vintyri.org/vintyri/djindex.htm

Not sure if any of the symbols I did are in of those. The last ones I did and posted to the Dundjinni forums were some Mi-Go ones a few years back. (I can post them in the Tokens section if anyone wants them.)

[LordEntrails]

The CSUAC and CSUAC 2.0 symbols were some of the ones on Map Forge. The Dundjinni Archives files has the others.

https://www.vintyri.org/vintyri/djindex.htm

Not sure if any of the symbols I did are in of those. The last ones I did and posted to the Dundjinni forums were some Mi-Go ones a few years back. (I can post them in the Tokens section if anyone wants them.)
And why wouldn't we want more? *G* Maybe the PF or CG would be a better place to post though, if you want to share with everyone.

[Trenloe]

The Temples that came out this week is the compatibility update. Temples was a CC2 product. It latter had a CC3 conversion so it would works with CC3 and now a CC3+ compatibility version so it would work with CC3+.

A new version has been in the works that will ad some new maps and redo the symbols. That will come out after Dioramas 3+. See these blog posts:

https://rpgmaps.profantasy.com/?p=4343

https://rpgmaps.profantasy.com/?p=3717
Cool! Thanks for the info and correction. :)

[Varsuuk]

I was excited to see the posting on Holding but then saw they didn't have a bundle of "add-ons", it was all tied in. That's fine (btw, I am way more familiar with Humble than Holding) but doesn't work for me since I own all 3 base products (CC/DD/CD).

Still, I am excited they offered this - mens more people out there will get the cool product and make nice maps, hopefully some sharing of the fcwn too :)

There are a few styles, etc I want to get still that are in annual, I only bought one thus far - had a LotR-esqu, B&W, and couple other nice things - I want to say 2015? but not sure. I am dying to check out this year's since it had an overland Schley mod style. I just have had no time to do anything and figure wait until do or they have a big sale.

[Minty23185Fresh]

Content removed by author....

[Trenloe]

No one mentioned that part of that curve is just dealing with the purchase and install process.
I've never had problems and I've installed it on many different PCs.

Have you requested assistance on the Profantasy forums?

[LordEntrails]

The PF forums are not as active as here, but just as friendly. I will add that I have not had problems with multiple installs either. Sorry to hear you are.

[Jay_NOLA]

Well, I splurged and spend the $. Four days ago. Still trying to get it installed. Can't say I'm impressed. The whole process reminds me of Disneyland. Incredibly Mickey Mouse and antiquated. I'm glad I have a 14 day no questions asked return window. I'll keep plodding along until day 13. It scares me that this is the "Cadillac" of mapping programs. I'm still holding out hope that once it's running, and I've climbed that curve everyone talks about that CC proves to be "all that". No one mentioned that part of that curve is just dealing with the purchase and install process.

For install the only problems with some ProFantasy products is that you may need to install Microsoft .net Framwork if you get an error and some fonts can have trouble with install and showing on Vista and up. This is cause of how Microsoft changed how font metadata works and the issue is only for some fonts in older products.

A thread on the ProFantasy site went into detail about fonts and gave more info.

Install order is:

CC3+
Latest Update
Install DD3
Install other add-ons
Install Latest Updater Again (Note: Sometimes the update will uninstall it when run again. So you may have to run the updater another time afterwards. The updater is run again to patch the expansion files and get latest menu configs.)

For free community expansion like the CSUAC an install PDF of instruction is available and a forumthread on the ProFantasy site.

If you have install trouble or need help ask on the ProFantasy forums. Install questions come up.

Joe Sweeny did a video in which he showed how to install.

Also, check your menus in CC3 after you have everything done those sometime need to be rconfigured. Just ask on the ProFantasy website.

[Trenloe]

If you're having problems with the purchase process, is this due to Bundle of Holding supplying the purchases? Or is it something else?

For a "normal" (i.e. non Bundle of Holding purchase) you get a download link and a license key - both of which can be stored in your user profile (you have the option to do this after the purchase on the website and you also get an email describing the process of adding the order to your account).

By going to the Profantasy website (https://secure.profantasy.com/default.asp) and clicking on Service -> Login/Register you will be able to get access to all of the installation files (and updates) for products registered to your account, and all of the license keys needed to install those products. Personally, I find this approach very easy to get access to all of the files and license keys that I need to do installations on different PCs.

[Minty23185Fresh]

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[Minty23185Fresh]

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[Nylanfs]

Probably their servers getting hammered.

[Trenloe]

Not yet. I have not run up against a show stopper. Everything is just much more complicated than it needs to be. The whole serial number thing is laughable. First enter an order number to get your serial numbers, then enter your serial number to down load the installer then enter your serial number to install the software.

The payment process through PayPal was comical too. After paying, and returning to ProFantasy… "Okay. So let's create a PF login with your PayPal login." My response: No... I'm already logged in with my PF login. Why would my PayPal and PF logins have to be the same? Do you also think my passwords are the same? That would be convenient wouldn't it?

Come on guys! This should be much more seamless.
You know... ProFantasy is a small company, just like SmiteWorks. And SmiteWorks has a similar (ish) process to get products - especially those bought on Steam (you need to regularly go through a sync process) and the issues with PayPal subscriptions immediately cancelling even if there is time left on the monthly payment - and SmiteWorks requires the same email address be used for PayPal subscriptions and your FG longs to link the two together. I'm sure ProFantasy (and probably SmiteWorks) would love to have seemless integration with the third party store/payment options they use, but that is either nigh-on impossible or just too much work for the return (and so way down the priority list) or requires them to make compromises (like using the same email address).

If you start off with this negative mindset of purchasing the product, then moving forward every little thing that you don't quite like is going to annoy you. Profantasy is a small company, maybe cut them some slack on the things they don't concentrate all of their time on or have little control over? Move past it and start using the software - just like you obviously have with Fantasy Grounds. :)

[Minty23185Fresh]

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[Trenloe]

Oh yeah I forgot. The download process took hours. Not because of file size but because the process would hang. Just stop. And not resume.
And it wasn't my internet connection. I thought the same thing, so I went to some other sites, including Fantasy Grounds and downloaded other purchases.
Yeah, like I said - now every little thing is going to get you publicly expressing your displeasure. Whereas, without your dislike of your previous small company issues experience, you may have stopped for a moment and thought something along the lines of: "Oh, their download server is obviously being hit hard because of the hundreds of people that purchased the bundle of holding deal. A lot of these installation files are pretty big because they contain high-resolution artwork. I'll give it a while and try again later - hopefully the rush will have died down a bit."

I know you're completely entitled to express your opinion. My main concern is that you're now not going to give Campaign Cartographer a fair go and, at some point, hit the point of the "last straw" and decide that you don't want to play with Mickey Mouse and his mapping friends anymore. That would be a shame, as you'll be missing out on a powerful mapping application that has helped a lot of people with little or no artistic talent to produce wonderful maps.

[Minty23185Fresh]

…
Install order is:

CC3+
Latest Update
Install DD3
Install other add-ons
…

Joe Sweeny did a video in which he showed how to install.

Thanks Jay. Without your help and Mr. Sweeny's video, I'd still be scratching my head as to where DD3 went.

[Minty23185Fresh]

Soooo. The big learning curve IS the installation process.. The program itself is really pretty easy to use. I’ve been using various vector based and cad based programs for years. Only real difference is the verb-noun versus noun-verb methodology. They’re bound to be other little idiosyncrasies but they’ll be easy to deal with. Thanks guys for not letting me give up on CC. The effects are completely worth the earlier headaches.

[LordEntrails]

Glad to hear it. Both that you are enjoying it and that I'm not the only one that thought all the hype about the steep learning curve didn't hold up :)

Anyway, effects are cool aren't they? Makes me feel like I'm almost a pro!

[Trenloe]

Soooo. The big learning curve IS the installation process.. The program itself is really pretty easy to use. I’ve been using various vector based and cad based programs for years. Only real difference is the verb-noun versus noun-verb methodology. They’re bound to be other little idiosyncrasies but they’ll be easy to deal with. Thanks guys for not letting me give up on CC. The effects are completely worth the earlier headaches.
Great to hear! :)

[Jay_NOLA]

@everyone - If your on ProFantasy's mailing list the emailed out a new newsletter with a $12 off anyone product voucher which can be used in new products that hasn't been released yet.

@Minty - Glad you got it installed and like the program.

The newest update by the way is 17a, which just got releases about a day or two ago so I don't know which version of the 17 update you downloaded an older 17 one was out till this week.. The .exe is titled CC3PlusUpdate17a. The install process is one of the biggest things that confuses people. It gets even more complicated when you go to install CC2 (which only work on XP and lower), CC3, The AD&D Core Rules 2.0, FR Atlas in addition to CC3+. As some programs need to be installed before others so things will install fully.

The download troubles you had I've only experienced when they did huge sale, had major updates, or had a new products that everyone was waiting for for months gets released. I ended up having to wait a day to download in my case.

The fan CSUAC files had a similar problem when they were first released and it was severer overload. I had to wait a week to download them after initial release to get all the files.

Hope to see you post some maps soon.

[seycyrus]

What is The AD&D Core Rules 2.0, and what is it's relationship to CC3+ ?

[LordEntrails]

What is The AD&D Core Rules 2.0, and what is it's relationship to CC3+ ?

AD&D CR2.0 was a digital product from TSR/WotC a long time ago (maybe it was included as a CD-ROM in the DMG?). It included a 'lite' version of CC, called Campaign Mapper if I remember correctly and a character generator.

[Varsuuk]

Hey Jay, I didn’t see a new Newsletter. I DID get one the other day which was sweet 60% off any one annual - I got the latest due to Schley style.

Is there a different newsletter out there? I get them every month (usually 7 off, occasionally something like 12-16 I think.)

[Varsuuk]

I still have that CDROM ;) (and first Core Rules and Dragon Compendium and other stuff that makes me old. Heck the first PC game I bought was Zork I fit my new recently released C64...)

[Jay_NOLA]

The AD&D Core rules 2.0 was a separate boxed CD product that latter had an expansion.

It had a fully detailed character generator, 2 mapping program (ProFantasy did one which was a lite version of CC2), dice roller, and electronic version of all the 2e AD&D core books (Players, DM, DM, & MM) in several formats including HTML and some of the expansion book. I alsoso could manage encounters and do treasure rolls, etc. The expansion CD for it added even more books converted to it. The Core rules 2.0, Expansion for it, and the FR Atlas also had new CC2 symbols. (They work in CC3 & CC3+).

Wizards was planning to have other books be available for download that you could buy for it. They released the Complete Book of Necromacers for it as a free download at one point

The Forgotten Realm Interactive Atlas worked with it CC2 and CC3. They have a CC3 updated patch on the Profantsy site.

Patch files for all 3 are a major headache to get now along with all the official free stuff since some were on Wizards site, some were on ProFantasy site, and some were on the company that made Core rules CD program. Plus a few fan sites have incorrect info on the patches and install order of them. The Fan sites do have ton of free content for it.

You could add new monsters, magic items, spells, equipment, etc. to it and export those to share with other. So a lot of the fan content is conversions of 1st edition stuff and other 2e stuff.

If your using the 2e AD&D ruleset that Celestian is doing he has a script so you can get all the HTML versions of the rule books from Core rules 2.0 converted over into a Fantasy Grounds modules.

You could do stuff like have an encounter set up and link it to a CC2, CC3,CC3+ map and when you click on the map in the Profantasy site or in the other mapper it will pull up all the encounter data.

Encounters, charters, etc. could be exported in HTM, RTF, PDF format too.


@Varsuuk - The newsletter I got has May 24th date on it and it didn't show up till yesterday in my mailbox for some reason, two days after it was sent.

[Varsuuk]

Wow Jay, you have always been an amazing source of CC3 and old time TSR mappy info! Thanks man.
(I never did find the T1-4 maps you mentioned to me once, I think I should try looking again - I recall it was during a busy time then I forgot!)

Also, the newsletter - so weird! I got the same dated one but in mine it has no $12 off coupon, instead a 60% off One Cartographer Annual (which was great because THAT's what I wanted to get - to check out the Schley hex mappy thing this summer when have more time with son out of school :) ) - So it seems their newsletters have varying offers in them... how unexpected.

[Jay_NOLA]

I think they sent out different newsletters based on how long you've subscribed or what you have.

A lot of my old mappy info comes from digging around and waybacking sites. I'm still trying to get some of the old non-ProFantsy products that was done for CC2/CC3.

May not post for a few days having to have an angiogram tomorrow and I'll be be stuck in bed for 24 hours, if they don't keep me for as stint or if nothing goes wrong.

[LordEntrails]

May not post for a few days having to have an angiogram tomorrow and I'll be be stuck in bed for 24 hours, if they don't keep me for as stint or if nothing goes wrong.
Good luck.

[Bidmaron]

May God protect you Jay

[Varsuuk]

Be well my friend :)

See ya soon!

[Bonkon]

Here is hoping for the best results Jay :)

[Jay_NOLA]

Thanks for the well wishes. I was in the hospital all day on the 30th. They went in through the arm and groin (2 probes were done) so I'm having trouble walking and typing currently. My right arm is right now all yellow colored where the arm probe was. Follow up hospital visit took all day to check for recovery problems on the 1s, and I have another visit in a few days to make sure everything heals up right and am on restricted activities for a week and a half.

Will be staying at home and taking pain meds for the next few days. They had to give stuff for pain as the right arm they probe has diabetic neurorapathy, carpal tunnel, and nerve damage (nerve damage occurred in 2015 due to med mal/abuse at another hospital), and fibromyalgia. Warned about the arm issues and they still went in he arm and nurse squeezed hard on the arm when I was in recovery and caused a lot of pain and they gave me pain meds and were going to have to send me to er if the pain didn't stop. It did but due to what happened in 2015 I have a lot problems with that arm and very bad pain flair up if pressure, lifting, etc. with it.

Had a 50-55% blockage will know what needs to be done when I see my heart doctor on next follow up.

[LordEntrails]

Glad you are recovering. Take care or yourself, get well, we will be here when life is ready for your return.

[Jay_NOLA]

Thanks,
recovery hasn't gone as I would have liked.

I ended up in ICU on Wednesday due to a blood clot in my right arm as a result of the testing. Right arm was hurting bad Saturday and the days afterwards. The pain went from mild to extreme pain that day. As the clot was hitting nerves and cutting off circulation to hand and fingers. I canceled a dentist appointment to see my heart doctor a week earlier. Tried going to. He sent me to have an ultrasound done on arm next door to his office and they sent me to ER. Which transfered me to the main Tulane hospital and to ICU.

While waiting to go ER my glasses broke. A screw fell out and could find screw. When I was in ICU lucky a nurse took them over Optometry and they fixed them.

I got out of the hospital late Thursday. Went home and ate. Ended up chipping a tooth. My insurance won't cover getting it looked at and I can't afford to have it looked at. My canceled appointment was for a cleaning which is covered.

Been feeling very weak, tired, and dizzy since discharge. Went to local library to use wi fi and post, etc.

In ICU I got pumped full of antibiotics, blood thinners and pain killers.They had to use an ultrasound to get the 2nd IV in.

had 2 IV's in my left arm and they did about 10 needle sticks in my left arm. I took a picture of how my arm looked with my phone I can post if any one is curious to see how it looked.

I'm on Xeralto now for the next 14 days and have to get my arm looked at once a week now.

I'm not sure what is going on as i have been feeling very weak and tired since last night. Will try and post in the future.

[damned]

Jay I hope things take a turn for the better for you real soon.

[Bidmaron]

Amen, Jay. Will be praying for you, buddy.

[Bonkon]

Thoughts and prayers for you Jay.

[Varsuuk]

Aye, same here Jay. Take good care of yourself.