LFG - 4e sundays

[Dugahst]

Hey all, if anyone is running a 4e game on sundays i'd be interested in joining.
So many people bash it, but that just makes me more curious as to whether or not it is bad as some say- because from what I've read about it sounds pretty good (balanced classes, tactical combat akin to a video game, more magic than 5e, etc).

[Kevlyn]

My biggest issue with 4e was that it felt like role-playing was abandoned, it was primarily a tactically-centered game. For that, it was very well designed, but it didn't 'feel' like D&D. It was more like WotC trying to pull kids away from the video games and to the table. And for that part it worked as well. Where it really fell apart, for myself, was in the options for building a character. They published new build options too frequently, it was a very min/max type of gaming which I am not a fan of.

My stepson wanted me to run a game, so he invited several of his friends and I brought one of my old 2e buddies in, and we ran a game. They didn't fill all the roles, and they didn't take advantage of the style of game. They went at it like it was 2e or 3e, and the session ended in a TPK.

As a player, I was pretty dissatisfied with d20. And that's my problem to start with, because I don't subscribe to the whole balanced encounters philosophy. So I got very disgruntled with 4e because going into a fight, I knew it was winnable. The system is designed like that and I firmly believe that encounters should be based on what makes sense for the area the players are in, not what the partly level is. Entering combat should not be a decision made lightly. If that helps you understand my displeasure.

From the group that I used to play with, none of them enjoyed 4e. We played it because it was the latest edition, but as soon as the 5e play packet came out, we switched and never looked back. 5e fixed a lot of things for me, but still did not alleviate my frustrations with d20 overall.

If you enjoy intensive, tactical combat, then 4e is likely a good choice. You can pick up most of the books quite cheaply. Hope this helps a little!

[Dugahst]

To me that just sounds like bad DMing.
I mean, yes combat is tactical, but that doesn’t mean you can’t build social encounters- the skill and attribute systems are very similar to 5e and those are really the only aspects mechanically that are tied to social encounters.
Also, there isn’t any reason you can’t build encounters to be too stacked against the players, in other words building encounters fornwhat makes sense to the local. All of that is created by the DM (unless you’re running a premade adventure).
Role playing is almost entirely up to the players, as the DM you just have to give them the setting to do so- it has 0 to do with system mechanics.

[Llyle]

Personally I love 4e. Fell in love when I first saw it and have played it ever since. Dugahst, you should speak with Spite, he has a Discord Channel with a huge 4e community, pick up games every now and then and sometimes groups forming.
About different editions... I don't like the idea of 'warring' between the editions, if you like one, play it. Tastes differ and I won't tell you what to like.


Then I'd like to repost this: (posted some years ago by Matt Hirte)

Right on the spot! "What has 4E ever done for us!?"

"Yesterday, while playing 5E we had one of these discussions about virtues and flaws of the 4th Edition. And I couldn't help but comparing the discussion to this legendary scene:
(Monty Python - Life of Brian - What have the Romanes ever done for us) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvPbj9NX0zc
*******************************************

DM: “They took, our Money, the bastards! They’ve released one useless book after another! And not only for the DM’s but also for the players!”

Player 1: “And for the Players who themselves DM’d another group!”

DM: “Yes”

Player 1: “And for their players who subsequently DM’d anoth…”

DM: “All right, don’t labour the point. - And what has 4e EVER brought for our D&D experience?”

Player 2: “It simplified the Grapple rules”

DM:”Oh, yeah, yeah, It did that, yeah, that’s true”

Player 3:”And it brought the At-Will Attacks”

Player 1:”Oh yes, do you remember when wizards had to resort to crossbows at lower levels?”

DM:”All right, I’ll grant you that the grapple rules and the at-Will Attacks are two things that the 4e has…”

Player 4:”Healing from Zero Hit Points!”

DM (sharply):”Well, yes obviously, the healing goes without saying. But apart from the grapple rules, the At-Will Attacks, the Healing…”

Player 5:”the short rest”
(murmurs of agreement)

Several Players: ”Useful Bards” - “group Checks”

DM:”Yeah, all right, fair enough”

Player 1:”Minions”

Player 5:” Oh ,yeah , that was a hell of fun when you could swipe half the mat with one strike!”

Player 3:” And DM’s didn’t have to look up all the monster feats, because it was all in the creatures statblock!”

Player 2:” Yes, that made things a lot easier” (general nodding)
“Let’s face it, they cut the preparation time for DM’s in half with this!”
(more general murmurs of agreement)

DM:” All right, All right – but apart from the grapple rules, the At-Will Attacks, the Healing from Zero Hit points, the short rest, the empowerment of the Bard class, the group checks, the Minions and the simplification of the NPC-Statblocks… what has 4e EVER brought for our D&D experience?

Player 1:”It entertained us for years?”
DM:(very angry): What!? Oh... (scornfully) Entertainment, yes... SHUT UP!