Reroll Initiative every rounds EFFECTS expiry

[rob2e]

When rerolling initiative every round, effects that are set to expire on a certain initiative are then not set correctly in the next round. Is it possible for an extension to be written that will affect (recalculate) all current expiry initiatives and reapply the new number? Seems complicated, but it would be REALLY cool!

[JohnD]

The effects should still expire on the correct initiative number, it's just that your initiative number might well be different, so the effect will last a fraction of a round longer than supposed to or less than supposed to. In the long run it should even out, but yeah as a non programmer this sounds complicated.

[Andraax]

Not easy. But I don't think it's needed, either. If an effect is applied at initiative #6 and lasts one round, it *should* expire at initiative #6 the next round (it lasts exactly one round). If the combatants get a new initiative, that shouldn't affect when the effect expires.

[celestian]

Not easy. But I don't think it's needed, either. If an effect is applied at initiative #6 and lasts one round, it *should* expire at initiative #6 the next round (it lasts exactly one round). If the combatants get a new initiative, that shouldn't affect when the effect expires.

If I'm not mistaken some items expire on the casters initiative. Not "end of round".

I actually did this in AD&D Core at one point but removed it during backport of a big effects update from CoreRPG/5e and haven't added it back.

I'll try and look at this again Rob (cause I plan to put it back in AD&D Core) and see how much trouble it'd be as a 5e extension.

[rob2e]

If I'm not mistaken some items expire on the casters initiative. Not "end of round".

I actually did this in AD&D Core at one point but removed it during backport of a big effects update from CoreRPG/5e and haven't added it back.

I'll try and look at this again Rob (cause I plan to put it back in AD&D Core) and see how much trouble it'd be as a 5e extension.

COOL! Can't wait to find out what the (extension) master comes up with.

[celestian]

See if this 5e: Change Initiative, Update Effects (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?43430-5E-Change-Initiative-Update-Effects) works for ya.

[damned]

So one round Im last actor and in the next round Im first actor so my awesome spell just fizzled?
Or... Im first one round and last the next and my spell is now double awesome!

[celestian]

So one round Im last actor and in the next round Im first actor so my awesome spell just fizzled?
Or... Im first one round and last the next and my spell is now double awesome!

That's the joys of rolling initiative every round ;) You never know when you'll be able to act.

[JML]

That's the joys of rolling initiative every round ;) You never know when you'll be able to act.

I think you misunderstood what damned meant. From a logical viewpoint, effects duration shouldn't have anything to do with your next initiative. This may be how xxx game rules are made, and then that's how FG xxx ruleset should work, but that's another story.

To elaborate, we have:

two effects duration sets: fixed duration and variable duration
two effects handling types: autonomous and maintained effects
two ways of handling initiative: fixed or changing each round


Some game rules designers choose to keep it simple to handle and usually you end up with fixed initiative and effects ending at end of next round, whatever your initiative was.

If they want to be more realistic, initiative changes each round and effects duration becomes more tricky:

maintained effects should stop when PC stops managing them, which means PC's initiative rank of whatever relevant round (which has a good chance of being different from the initiative rank it was initiated at)
autonomous effects (spells, stunning, etc.) duration should be calculated from the moment they took place, which means the PC's initiative rank at that time. They've got nothing to do with following rounds PC's initiatives. And I think that's what damned was pointing out.

[Trenloe]

This thread is in the generic CoreRPG forum and, as has just been mentioned, this can be very much RPG specific. Do things expire at the end of the round? At the beginning or end of a actor's turn? Something else? It can vary widely - and there may even be multiple differences within the same RPG ruleset.

So, I don't think this can realistically be done for the generic CoreRPG ruleset. Maybe on a more ruleset-by-ruleset basis.

[celestian]

I think you misunderstood what damned meant. From a logical viewpoint, effects duration shouldn't have anything to do with your next initiative. This may be how xxx game rules are made, and then that's how FG xxx ruleset should work, but that's another story.


I understood the message but keep in mind I also don't play 5e all that much. My game is AD&D where a lot of durations on spells are random.

That said, a spell that says "lasts until your next turn"... if the turn happens to be 1st and you went last previously, well thems the breaks IMO.

But that's the type of game I like.

Rolling initiative is a "house/optional" rule as is something like the extension I wrote. The DM and their group can decide if they like that style.


This thread is in the generic CoreRPG forum and, as has just been mentioned, this can be very much RPG specific. Do things expire at the end of the round? At the beginning or end of a actor's turn? Something else? It can vary widely - and there may even be multiple differences within the same RPG ruleset.

So, I don't think this can realistically be done for the generic CoreRPG ruleset. Maybe on a more ruleset-by-ruleset basis.

You are right in that I don't think CoreRPG has "init" as a effect value but the mechanics I used to implement the "reset to current initiative" was. So... as long as the ruleset based on CoreRPG has a "init" value used for the same thing it should work. For that reason tho I listed the extension as 5E.

[JML]

I understood the message but keep in mind I also don't play 5e all that much. My game is AD&D where a lot of durations on spells are random.

That said, a spell that says "lasts until your next turn"... if the turn happens to be 1st and you went last previously, well thems the breaks IMO.

But that's the type of game I like.

Rolling initiative is a "house/optional" rule as is something like the extension I wrote. The DM and their group can decide if they like that style.

It seems it's me who got you wrong :rolleyes:

Usual problem with written messages, and may be also english not being my native language.This also happens to me two or three times a year in french ;)

[celestian]

It seems it's me who got you wrong :rolleyes:

Usual problem with written messages, and may be also english not being my native language.This also happens to me two or three times a year in french ;)

No worries. It doesn't help im not a 5e guy either. You speak more languages than me and I probably don't speak the one I use very well ;)

[DealBreaker]

I realize I am treading dangerously close to thread necro-ing.... BUT wouldn't the most sensible solution for "effect lasts until the end of your next turn" or "1 round" effects be changed to "effect expires at the end of the initiative count cast in the following round".

To illustrate this lets look at a wizard casting color spray. Normally (i.e., initiative is not rerolled), the blindness effect would expire as the Wizard starts his/her turn on round 2. Without my suggestion and initiative being rerolled each round, if the wizards has a R1 initiative of 15 and casts color spray then on R2 has an initiative of 17 would mean the blindness effect did not last as long. With my change, the blindness effect would last until R2 initiative count 15 (potentially allowing a character to act after the wizard on initiative count 16 BEFORE the blindness expires).

This seems logically simple and I would be interested in playing around with a system like this, but my coding/programming skills are non-existent.

[LordEntrails]

I realize I am treading dangerously close to thread necro-ing.... BUT wouldn't the most sensible solution for "effect lasts until the end of your next turn" or "1 round" effects be changed to "effect expires at the end of the initiative count cast in the following round".

To illustrate this lets look at a wizard casting color spray. Normally (i.e., initiative is not rerolled), the blindness effect would expire as the Wizard starts his/her turn on round 2. Without my suggestion and initiative being rerolled each round, if the wizards has a R1 initiative of 15 and casts color spray then on R2 has an initiative of 17 would mean the blindness effect did not last as long. With my change, the blindness effect would last until R2 initiative count 15 (potentially allowing a character to act after the wizard on initiative count 16 BEFORE the blindness expires).

This seems logically simple and I would be interested in playing around with a system like this, but my coding/programming skills are non-existent.
The way re-roll init and effects expire with the 5E ruleset is exactly as you describe.