Optimized screen management - discussion

[Henrique Oliveira Machado]

Ok, so i created this thread so we all can talk about how to make a better screen management in a more appropriate thread, so everyone can throw ideas about how they think screen management should look like, and what functionalities would speed up play.

later, we can upload that result to the wishlist. That would be cool and very productive for FG, i think.

A few points i would like to point out about what i think it is the most important things you should consider before throwing ideas:

1) It should contain only options that would speed up prep time and speed up playtime. No point on organizing better, but ending up with a confusing layout as a result.
2) It should not force functionality on anyone. People should still be able to use the screen management like they do today and being able to manually adjust everything.
3) There are no stupid ideas, just go ahead and say it. Just think a little about 1 and 2 before so we do not lose the focus on the actual subject of this thread.

[Henrique Oliveira Machado]

Our ideas:

- Being able to classify/group images as archetypes (Maps, portraits, landscapes, etc.)
- Being able set a standard location to this groups so every time you open one of them, it will open at the exact same location. If more than one of the same group is opened at the same time, they can not be in the top of the another. (OPTIONAL choice of making the oldest image of that group close automatically after another image of that group is open). Example: if you already have a map opened, when you open a new map, the one you already have it opened will close.
- Being able to lock position of a image once you scaled it to the desired position. That way, people with touchpad could navigate through the map without needing the navigation button. (unlocked as default).
-Shortcut for quickly cycling through open windows. (Ctrl+o) or something similar
- Being able to set a standard position to Story screens opened.
- Having the OPTION of making the maps size hit the limits of your screen. (Standard as off so maps can open at the original size by standard)
- With the screen limit option on, we could drag images to the sides of the screen to make them auto-adjust to the side corresponding to where you dragged them. Similar as windows does. That option could appear as a right click menu too.
- Make the right sidebar buttons naturally smaller so we do not have to scaleui so far below.
-A clickable bar to quickly hide/show the sidebar when not used. Or a sensible area that auto shows the sidebar when the mouse touches the right border of the screen.

EDIT: I will keep adding itens to the list as you guys suggest it. I will also scratch out (in red) any that can not be done

What you guys think?

[shadzar]

Probably function less like a self-contained video game, and more like an actual software package.

This means say not having things proprietary like in SSI Gold Box Series games where a window is set by the software, and then the software having special unique ways of managing windows, but use more of the OS native features for whatever platform it is used on.

for example, you have a close button on the program at all times, but there is no minimize on the launcher once it is maximized, and convoluted way to maximize and minimize inside the radial menu once in a game. Put those buttons up there with the close button that people are told "DO NOT USE" because it doesnt close the campaign properly since it closes the whole program instead of "return to launcher", and make them ALWAYS appear on the screen. aka STOP HIDING THE TITLE BAR WHEN SOMEONE GOES FULL SCREEN!

Probably fix that button as well, if the launcher is going to have to be the place to return to, then make that button a "return to launcher" button instead of one to close the entire program.

Also apply those Minimize/Maximize buttons to all the other little window objects inside the campaign UI. Move the "Lock/Unlock" form the radial menu on those windows up there with those buttons a well for easy access so you KNOW you are clicking on the right thing to be able to lock a windows position or unlock it to move where you want it. Can you even lock half the "windows"? Images/Maps doesnt hae a Lock on it, only the individual image or map do. Where is the "lock window position" for the menu windows?

Zoom controls obviously need to be fixed to something less 1980s~1990s in design.

Map/images should automatically resize to fit the window they open in, not try to fill the screen and guess the map size to make the window big enough for it to fit.

On second thought, why is there a desktop or decals? Just put the map there there are 3 portions of the screen that always exist:
Chat
Sidebar
"Desktop"

you can't move the sidebar, but things can go on top of it and block it.
you can move the chat, but not REMOVE it.
The desktop surface should just be the current map. Now with TOTM/Theatrical Maps, there is a way/reason to always have it open. then images should be its own setting/menu that open like other windows do on top of the sidebar, and the map in use.

i did not count the "dicebox" since that can be completely removed as die can be rolled via chat command or directly from character sheet and other locations. the exist mostly as legacy visuals because people want 3d animated dice to look at, and to say "Yes DDi we own the dice you can't use them even in promotional materials as a mock up example of your vaporware product". Also the dice/modifier can be moved anywhere.

So there is really only 2 static objects on the "desktop" that cannot be move:

desktop
sidebar

just replace the desktop with the map as all other object can be moved when needed to see that one corner of the map, or just design the maps to allow for people to be able to scroll beyond the boundries for smaller screens to be able to see the map and the other windows they might need opened.

alternately go with a 3 pane approach.

chat <-> map <-> sidebar

and then all the other windows can float on top and be moved around, though this approach removes the ability for players to move their chat to the right side, it will allow full view of all corners of a map with a singular map pane that can chance when a new map is called on.

[Talyn]

We can already use the grouping ability to filter which images are what "category." However, this is a local view only. Forcing images to fit into some archetype or category will mean all 900+ DLC would have to be fixed, and I can tell you from experience that isn't going to happen. FG has no way to tell an image is "just" an image or if it's a map. We can draw on, put a grid on, use pointers on, anything in the main Images & Maps window.

Forcing all images to open to a default size also would not work, for the reason above. For example, look at your items. If they have a picture to go along with the item description, that picture is pretty small. Do you really want it to open to a huge size like a map would?

For my two cents, having a Client Option for the imagewindow class to first consider the user's screen resolution then either scale itself to fit within that resolution, or to use a percentage of it like most image editors do (I think GIMP, for example, defaults to 66% for images larger than the current resolution). Then let the user scale it to their individual needs.

Placement-wise, I kinda wouldn't mind having a "window tiling" mechanism to prevent multiple windows opening exactly on top of each other so that you can't even tell there are multiple windows open...

[shadzar]

FG has no way to tell an image is "just" an image or if it's a map. We can draw on, put a grid on, use pointers on, anything in the main Images & Maps window.

That should be easy enough to do with a redesign of how it reads images and maps. when in a folder called "/maps/" inside the campaign, .mod, etc then it is a map and you can add a grid to it and it opens that certain way, and ones inside a folder called "/images/" it opens to make the window show the full image, like a handout or such. Heck you could still put grids and drawings and such on images.


to simplify it even more, just have maps and images open 50% height and width of the program real estate, and make the "image" scale to those dimensions upon opening. then if it is a map or jsut an image for a handout, the whole thing can be seen by whoever needs to see it. then individual players can resize the window, however they want.

nothing would change with older content because FG itself is just told to take up 50% of the viewing area with this new image and make the mage fit in height and width to this size, even if it is a map-image 30000*20000 pixels in size.

[Talyn]

The folder thing would only work if FG itself was re-coded to put things in those specific folders. If left up to the user the way it is now, who knows how that user spelled things? A lot of the DLC out there that was built in the UI has all the images in the root folder because the dev just dragged the images into the Image window and /export. Some of the older ones are in /refimages/ because that's the name those developers chose. Which brings me full-circle to there's no way anyone is going to go through 900+ older DLC and adjust that.

Seems like the auto-scaling mechanism would be the simplest way to go and wouldn't require anything special from the end user.

[Henrique Oliveira Machado]

Probably function less like a self-contained video game, and more like an actual software package.

This means say not having things proprietary like in SSI Gold Box Series games where a window is set by the software, and then the software having special unique ways of managing windows, but use more of the OS native features for whatever platform it is used on.

for example, you have a close button on the program at all times, but there is no minimize on the launcher once it is maximized, and convoluted way to maximize and minimize inside the radial menu once in a game. Put those buttons up there with the close button that people are told "DO NOT USE" because it doesnt close the campaign properly since it closes the whole program instead of "return to launcher", and make them ALWAYS appear on the screen. aka STOP HIDING THE TITLE BAR WHEN SOMEONE GOES FULL SCREEN!

Probably fix that button as well, if the launcher is going to have to be the place to return to, then make that button a "return to launcher" button instead of one to close the entire program.

Also apply those Minimize/Maximize buttons to all the other little window objects inside the campaign UI. Move the "Lock/Unlock" form the radial menu on those windows up there with those buttons a well for easy access so you KNOW you are clicking on the right thing to be able to lock a windows position or unlock it to move where you want it. Can you even lock half the "windows"? Images/Maps doesnt hae a Lock on it, only the individual image or map do. Where is the "lock window position" for the menu windows?

Zoom controls obviously need to be fixed to something less 1980s~1990s in design.

Map/images should automatically resize to fit the window they open in, not try to fill the screen and guess the map size to make the window big enough for it to fit.

On second thought, why is there a desktop or decals? Just put the map there there are 3 portions of the screen that always exist:
Chat
Sidebar
"Desktop"

you can't move the sidebar, but things can go on top of it and block it.
you can move the chat, but not REMOVE it.
The desktop surface should just be the current map. Now with TOTM/Theatrical Maps, there is a way/reason to always have it open. then images should be its own setting/menu that open like other windows do on top of the sidebar, and the map in use.

i did not count the "dicebox" since that can be completely removed as die can be rolled via chat command or directly from character sheet and other locations. the exist mostly as legacy visuals because people want 3d animated dice to look at, and to say "Yes DDi we own the dice you can't use them even in promotional materials as a mock up example of your vaporware product". Also the dice/modifier can be moved anywhere.

So there is really only 2 static objects on the "desktop" that cannot be move:

desktop
sidebar

just replace the desktop with the map as all other object can be moved when needed to see that one corner of the map, or just design the maps to allow for people to be able to scroll beyond the boundries for smaller screens to be able to see the map and the other windows they might need opened.

alternately go with a 3 pane approach.

chat <-> map <-> sidebar

and then all the other windows can float on top and be moved around, though this approach removes the ability for players to move their chat to the right side, it will allow full view of all corners of a map with a singular map pane that can chance when a new map is called on.

That was very confusing. Try to go with a single objective in mind about what you think it would help nowadays. It appears you are asking to completely redesign it from the 0. It is more about getting a different VTT than about improving FGs. The idea of this thread is maintaining FGs functionalities and improving them-having more options, and not completely redesign it.

But there are some interesting ideas you threw here.

- Better zoom design (less 90s style). I also think the zoom feature should be more sensitive. I cant zoom in just a little. It seems to zoom in a lot even if i want it just a little bigger/smaller. Currently it seem like a browser zoom that goes from 5-5%. But what if i want just a 1% zoom in?

- Option to Minimize FGs and its windows. You can just alt+tab on windows, use windows button on keyboard, Alt+enter to get out of the fullscreen mode or use 3 fingers pushing down on touchpad/touchscreen to bring desktop on, but yeah, i can see how that can be a problem for some users, i guess. I think adding that option beside to the CLOSE FGs (X) button would help.
For minimizing UI windows i think being able to click on them twice could auto-minimize them. Clicking twice again should reopen to last size.

[Henrique Oliveira Machado]

We can already use the grouping ability to filter which images are what "category." However, this is a local view only. Forcing images to fit into some archetype or category will mean all 900+ DLC would have to be fixed, and I can tell you from experience that isn't going to happen. FG has no way to tell an image is "just" an image or if it's a map. We can draw on, put a grid on, use pointers on, anything in the main Images & Maps window.
Noted, taking that off the list.


Forcing all images to open to a default size also would not work, for the reason above. For example, look at your items. If they have a picture to go along with the item description, that picture is pretty small. Do you really want it to open to a huge size like a map would?
The images should automatically resize to fit the screen only if they are bigger that the screen borders/size, no point on resizing small images. Since there is no way it can be grouped, there is no point in setting defaut position on the screen. I will scratch that out.


For my two cents, having a Client Option for the imagewindow class to first consider the user's screen resolution then either scale itself to fit within that resolution, or to use a percentage of it like most image editors do (I think GIMP, for example, defaults to 66% for images larger than the current resolution). Then let the user scale it to their individual needs. Everything should be customizable just like /scaleui is.


Placement-wise, I kinda wouldn't mind having a "window tiling" mechanism to prevent multiple windows opening exactly on top of each other so that you can't even tell there are multiple windows open...
yeah, i think as groups can not be created, the option of closing them automatically images of the same group would not work. But preventing images from opening exactly on on top of the other would help.

[Zacchaeus]

The Minimize/maximize issue is caused by the architecture that is currently used. This is the kind of thing which will be resolved in Unity https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?21237-Minimizing-the-FG2-Main-Window

Can someone explain what 'less 90's style zoom' means? Pretty much everything I have seems to use the middle mouse button to zoom in and out (except freaking Photoshop which insists on some keyboard command which I continually forget)

[Henrique Oliveira Machado]

The Minimize/maximize issue is caused by the architecture that is currently used. This is the kind of thing which will be resolved in Unity https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?21237-Minimizing-the-FG2-Main-Window

Can someone explain what 'less 90's style zoom' means? Pretty much everything I have seems to use the middle mouse button to zoom in and out (except freaking Photoshop which insists on some keyboard command which I continually forget)

Do not know what shadzar meant by that.
i think the zoom is too mechanical. I scroll in just a little and it zooms too much. Most modem zoom shows beside how much you are zooming in and it goes from pixel to pixel.

I am not sure how to say it technically.

it is not something i would die ho have, or that needs to be critically adjusted, but it is something that annoyed me a little.

[Zacchaeus]

You may possibly need to adjust your mouse settings then. I just tested things out and from a full image to scrolling in pretty much as far as it would go takes at least 100 clicks on my mouse button. I don't have any kind of special mouse and I don't have any special mouse driving software installed so i assume that is the default windows setting.

[Henrique Oliveira Machado]

You may possibly need to adjust your mouse settings then. I just tested things out and from a full image to scrolling in pretty much as far as it would go takes at least 100 clicks on my mouse button. I don't have any kind of special mouse and I don't have any special mouse driving software installed so i assume that is the default windows setting.

maybe. i use the touchpad to zoom in. Gonna check if i can reduce the sensitivity or the speed of the pointer and if that will help. I recently tweaked that up, since my pointer was not going from one side of the screen to the other.
Gonna return it to default and then see it tonight.

[shadzar]

The Minimize/maximize issue is caused by the architecture that is currently used. This is the kind of thing which will be resolved in Unity https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?21237-Minimizing-the-FG2-Main-Window

yeah, that is what i thought the thread intnt was, thinking forward about what will be happening sicne it has een said Classic is as-is with no hope for getting upgrades as all focus is on Unity.


Can someone explain what 'less 90's style zoom' means? Pretty much everything I have seems to use the middle mouse button to zoom in and out (except freaking Photoshop which insists on some keyboard command which I continually forget)

well, my Photoshop (from 1995) uses mouse-wheel zooming, but it also has one other feature that is being lost in recent years... TYPING IN A NUMBER!


DOS 5.0 you typed things
Win3.11 Mouse only to do things

Sure for those that want to scroll and change their mouse settings for EVERY program to use only the mouse, but we know with "scale UI" that you can type numebs in t scale things. so if someone knows they jsut need 50% of the map visible, then set it to 50% by typing in numbers.

or an actual scrollbar that isnt for the X or Y axis, but the Z axis. go into Zoo mode and you can see the zoom range because the scroll bar appears and you can click and drag it to the right zoom level and see its max and minimum zoom levels with the bars boundaries. ANY kind of indicator how far you are zoomed in is post-90s style zooming. be it the scrollbar for zoom, or a numerical gauge or just a number showing what zoom level you are at.

Warcraft for example had fixed zoom point in the beginning with specific zoom stops, but it didnt tell you what that was you jsut had to cycle through them. and get a ruler to measure the size of a Peon on screen to get it back to that zoom level when you somehow changed it.

so less preprogrammed zoom levels and more user visible details about he zoom level you are at, and ease to set a new zoom level.:

CTRL + + to zoom in, CTRL + - to zoom out.... but still an indicator, whatever the zoom method used is to tell, like Photoshop, what zoom level you are; and if lucky the type in the zoom level with a number for those that prefer to do it that way. again, like Photoshop can and GIMP, etc.

[Zacchaeus]

Sorry I thought when you said less 80's and 90's methods I thought you meant going forward rather than going back to the days when mice didn't exist :)

I'm not sure that I need to know how far I'm zoomed in to be honest. I'm zooming in on the combat so it really doesn't matter if that's a 200% zoom or a 5% zoom, as long as I see the combatants on the screen. Another one for the wish list (https://fg2app.idea.informer.com/) I think if it is something you really want to see.

[Henrique Oliveira Machado]

Sorry I thought when you said less 80's and 90's methods I thought you meant going forward rather than going back to the days when mice didn't exist :)

I'm not sure that I need to know how far I'm zoomed in to be honest. I'm zooming in on the combat so it really doesn't matter if that's a 200% zoom or a 5% zoom, as long as I see the combatants on the screen. Another one for the wish list (https://fg2app.idea.informer.com/) I think if it is something you really want to see.

Completely agree. Adding information that is not used would only add to the pollution and would not contribute with the objective of this thread.

[shadzar]

pollution? well i can see that, the "tools" for maps at the top under the map title do see like pollution :D

but that is where you could easily put where people could set the zoom level for whatever reason with a number. no more or less polluting than the "button" that exists on maps now that actually blocks part of the map in order to scroll and zoom it.

[Henrique Oliveira Machado]

pollution? well i can see that, the "tools" for maps at the top under the map title do see like pollution :D

but that is where you could easily put where people could set the zoom level for whatever reason with a number. no more or less polluting than the "button" that exists on maps now that actually blocks part of the map in order to scroll and zoom it.

isnt just faster to use the mouse scroll/two fingers on touchpad to zoom in/out than to write a number on the map where you have to first click on the box to then type?

Maybe someone can write an extention on that. but i do not see how that would help on vanilla version of FG.

Also i do not see the little icons as pollution per se, as they can offer you information about the image - if you shared the image, if they are already loaded to player screen, etc. And they are so little, transparent, etc.

[shadzar]

Maybe someone can write an extention on that. but i do not see how that would help on vanilla version of FG.

I thought we were thinking of things for FG Unity, since FG Classic will be deprecated unless FG Unity turns into vaporware?

[Trenloe]

I thought we were thinking of things for FG Unity, since FG Classic will be deprecated unless FG Unity turns into vaporware?
Nothing was mentioned about Unity in the first couple of posts in this thread.

Unity is still a way off.

And, what seems to get forgotten quite a lot: FGU will be backwards compatible with what is in FG Classic (FGC). So if there are changes made to FGC, to the core functionality updates or via extensions, these will be able to be used in FGU.

If you want some functionality that will be usable in the next few months - i.e. on FGC, write it now. The FG devs have proved time and time again - if some functionality is written in an extension, and it can be implemented in core FG without issues/clashes, the extension functionality very often makes it's way into FG/ So - if you want "stuff" to happen quicker, write it as an extension - maybe it will make it into the core functionality of FGC, and therefore FGU too. No guarantees mind, but there is a good possibility...

[shadzar]

Nothing was mentioned about Unity in the first couple of posts in this thread.

It was broken off from the Unity thread, so I thought this was the thread indicated for those "ideas".


Should we start another thread to discuss it further?
Maybe we can see a consensus and put it in the wishlist after. That would be cool.

[Henrique Oliveira Machado]

It was broken off from the Unity thread, so I thought this was the thread indicated for those "ideas".

It is for both of them, since FGU will have backwards compatibility.
We are discussing layout overall.

And yes, maybe Unity will make some things we will discuss here that will not be possible in FGC but will in FGU, like the minimize button previously discussed.


Now lets go back to the subject of the thread?

[DragonsDen13]

Not sure if this falls into the category for this thread but it would be nice if individuals had the ability to run their own extensions beyond what the DM might run.

My primary example is being able to run larger fonts on my machine (eyes not as good as they were when I was young) when the DM doesn't run that extension.

Maybe this would be a button that allows you to scale fonts on your machine.

[Ludd_G]

Hi,

I'd like to add my support for each 'type' of window (e.g. PC sheets, NPC sheets, Story entries, Encounter entries etc.), rather than each specific piece of 'content', to remember it's position and size, rather than each instance defaulting to the centre and needing to be manually re-positioned when the window with that specific 'content' is first opened. I realise this probably can't include Images as each piece of content is likely a different size, but this would really improve my user experience and, I'm hoping, wouldn't be impossible to implement with the current architecture.

Cheers,

Simon

[Henrique Oliveira Machado]

Hi,

I'd like to add my support for each 'type' of window (e.g. PC sheets, NPC sheets, Story entries, Encounter entries etc.), rather than each specific piece of 'content', to remember it's position and size, rather than each instance defaulting to the centre and needing to be manually re-positioned when the window with that specific 'content' is first opened. I realise this probably can't include Images as each piece of content is likely a different size, but this would really improve my user experience and, I'm hoping, wouldn't be impossible to implement with the current architecture.

Cheers,

Simon

nice. Gonna add it to the list

[Ckorik]

I liked the idea of having tabs, that said I'd settle for a shortcut to cycle through open windows.

[mac40k]

Not sure if this falls into the category for this thread but it would be nice if individuals had the ability to run their own extensions beyond what the DM might run.

My primary example is being able to run larger fonts on my machine (eyes not as good as they were when I was young) when the DM doesn't run that extension.

Maybe this would be a button that allows you to scale fonts on your machine.

Not sure what kind of issues that might cause (for example a player using an extension that adds another tab to the character sheet), but this old geezer would love to be able to change the font size without begging all the young'un GMs to take pity on me.

[LordEntrails]

Not sure what kind of issues that might cause (for example a player using an extension that adds another tab to the character sheet), but this old geezer would love to be able to change the font size without begging all the young'un GMs to take pity on me.
You have tried /scaleui right? That and combined with changing your screen resolution can make a big difference (though not ideal, the combo works well for me).

[shadzar]

scaleui not only changes fonts sizes, but widow sizes, images sizes, etc. it is not the answer for things only needed larger fonts to be able to read.

please tell me this will help in any way shape or form to read anything?

23193

sometimes you just need the actual text bigger, and ALL the rest of the UI left alone!

23194

have people always suggesting this scaleui ever actually used it to see how horrible and useless the results are? if not, look at the 1st image above.

EDIT: while you can reposition and resize most windows, the sidebar is fixed permanently,a nd scaling the UI itself just makes it in the way, or defeats it being a sidebar to be able to get to things as windows them just cover it all the time.

scaleui is useless for font size related issues.

[Henrique Oliveira Machado]

scaleui not only changes fonts sizes, but widow sizes, images sizes, etc. it is not the answer for things only needed larger fonts to be able to read.

please tell me this will help in any way shape or form to read anything?

23193

sometimes you just need the actual text bigger, and ALL the rest of the UI left alone!

23194

have people always suggesting this scaleui ever actually used it to see how horrible and useless the results are? if not, look at the 1st image above.

EDIT: while you can reposition and resize most windows, the sidebar is fixed permanently,a nd scaling the UI itself just makes it in the way, or defeats it being a sidebar to be able to get to things as windows them just cover it all the time.

scaleui is useless for font size related issues.

mostly agree. The sidebar it is unnecessarily big. The scaleui is mostly to get rid of it. Lol.

Maybe making these buttons naturally smaller would help a lot.

I'll add it to the list

[LordEntrails]

EDI: deleted, no value

[Ken L]

Screen pollution has been brought up several times. I made a topic myself about it calling it a different name though; "window explosion".

I've been fiddling a bit with a UI that started as a thing for my sci-fi game that stuck the sidebar into the chat window as a tab.

Being a follower of dungeon fog, they recently released a UI overhaul mock up and it had me thinking about reducing clutter by creating a tabbed info panel. I have a weak mock up of this where the huge side bar buttons become micro-tabs that when selected change the context of the side bar to show the various lists that you get with tables/images/encounters etc.. Individual Encounters/Npcs and such still pop out as normal so I'm trying to figure out how to 'panelize' it to keep it all orderly. The issue is that the sidebar is as wide/thick as the chat window so I'll probably have both become drawers of some kind.

[damned]

scaleui not only changes fonts sizes, but widow sizes, images sizes, etc. it is not the answer for things only needed larger fonts to be able to read.

please tell me this will help in any way shape or form to read anything?

23193

sometimes you just need the actual text bigger, and ALL the rest of the UI left alone!

23194

have people always suggesting this scaleui ever actually used it to see how horrible and useless the results are? if not, look at the 1st image above.

EDIT: while you can reposition and resize most windows, the sidebar is fixed permanently,a nd scaling the UI itself just makes it in the way, or defeats it being a sidebar to be able to get to things as windows them just cover it all the time.

scaleui is useless for font size related issues.

Is this a serious contribution to the thread?
You are running FG in its minimum screensize and then doubling the scaling?
So you are basically running FG at a quarter the minimum size.

Why is scaleui the first thing people suggest? Because FG is not a wall of text where increasing the font size just pushes words further along/down the page.
Because of the vast amount of fields and data on some screens increasing the font size only makes the text no longer fit the frame in which it has been placed. You need to also increase the frame and then each and every other element.

When you are playing on pen and paper the text is very small. Because of the same reason.
There are Character sheets with bigger text and they run to more pages.
scaleui is the only easy solution as it scales everything at the same time.

[Mortar]

Using tab like sidebar buttons like the City of Mist extension would help out with the sidebar management. I have started tinkering with it in a C&C theme, still needs work as I need to figure out the script that labels them and gets the labels correct. IF I can get it to work out I might adopt the set up in other projects.

[damned]

Using tab like sidebar buttons like the City of Mist extension would help out with the sidebar management. I have started tinkering with it in a C&C theme, still needs work as I need to figure out the script that labels them and gets the labels correct. IF I can get it to work out I might adopt the set up in other projects.

Thats how I do all my MoreCore extensions and is likely to be how Dungeon World is done.
Note if you use /scaelui 200 these will be twice as wide too.

[Mortar]

My current iteration. Need to pick up where I left off working on the other side bar buttons and their labels.


23196

[shadzar]

You are running FG in its minimum screensize and then doubling the scaling?

if using scaleui is the thing to scale up the font then 200% is what makes the text legible.

yes fixed widths in character sheets and such do present problem, but that too then needs to be fixed.

it must be nice for those 16 year olds that never had eye problems; but for people that are aging, or people born or developed eyesight problems after birth... the default "scaleui" solution doesn't really help. it causes more problems than it fixes.

and comparing dead-tree stock print to digital? really? well if that is the case nobody should use a VTT, because none provide the functionality of pen & paper. or you can jsut use a camera on a phone or table and zoom the text larger without making the actual book 24' x 18' in your hands, or on the table...

[damned]

if using scaleui is the thing to scale up the font then 200% is what makes the text legible.

So you are using a 1024x800 10" screen on your notebook with a vision impediment? Your example is crap. You have chosen the most edge case as your example.
Heres my edge case. Running FG on a 1920x1080p 50" screen. The text size is great.


yes fixed widths in character sheets and such do present problem, but that too then needs to be fixed.

How? And how will it result in anything different? Your party Sheet at 200% wider is going to challenge your screen realestate no matter which way you do it on a 1024 screen.
Wider is wider.


it must be nice for those 16 year olds that never had eye problems; but for people that are aging, or people born or developed eyesight problems after birth... the default "scaleui" solution doesn't really help. it causes more problems than it fixes.

What are all the issues it creates other than the Campaign tools? I cant see any other issues from your screenshot. please support your claim.


and comparing dead-tree stock print to digital? really? well if that is the case nobody should use a VTT, because none provide the functionality of pen & paper. or you can jsut use a camera on a phone or table and zoom the text larger without making the actual book 24' x 18' in your hands, or on the table...

Im not comparing dead tree stock to digital. Im comparing text size and layout to text size and layout. How do you solve text size and layout for a complex display of data?

[Mortar]

Don't know if damned has poor eyes, but I can tell you he is a older than 16.

I have bad eyes, way too much reading of books and computer screens. I prefer, no- I need darker backgrounds with lighter text to make it easier to read for me. I didn't change my UI scaling until yesterday trying to experiment on some theme. 100% of my issues with seeing have been fixed by putting on my glasses.

[JohnD]

My current iteration. Need to pick up where I left off working on the other side bar buttons and their labels.


23196

I like it. Please make this available with the CKG when you finish it.

[Mortar]

I like it. Please make this available with the CKG when you finish it.

My intention all along.

[Full Bleed]

(except freaking Photoshop which insists on some keyboard command which I continually forget)
One "shortcut" that many people don't use in Photoshop is when you have the Zoom tool selected you can zoom out with a Left-Click>Left-Drag and zoom in with Left-Click>Right-Drag.

Another is holding down the alt key and using the mouse wheel for smooth zooms in and out.

And a 3rd is to toggle the alt key to toggle between zoom in/out when left clicking.


Now, more ontopic for this discussion, I think this thread would be more useful to focus on FGU. I think it's pretty safe to say that there aren't going to be any major changes to FGC. And, further, FGU has entirely different architecture options. So saying "X can't be done in FGC" may not be true for FGU.


For me, optimized FGU window management starts with tabbed asset windows and ends with windows that can be sized and placed independent of the root app (i.e. dragged outside the app, resized, and positioned on other monitors.) I don't know if unity allows for that sort of architecture, but it's the most flexible method I can think of and solves all kinds of problems.

[damned]

For me, optimized FGU window management starts with tabbed asset windows and ends with windows that can be sized and placed independent of the root app (i.e. dragged outside the app, resized, and positioned on other monitors.) I don't know if unity allows for that sort of architecture, but it's the most flexible method I can think of and solves all kinds of problems.

I believe - at this time - there isnt a robust enough graphics library that will support multiscreen under Windows, Mac and Linux.

[Henrique Oliveira Machado]

One "shortcut" that many people don't use in Photoshop is when you have the Zoom tool selected you can zoom out with a Left-Click>Left-Drag and zoom in with Left-Click>Right-Drag.

Another is holding down the alt key and using the mouse wheel for smooth zooms in and out.

And a 3rd is to toggle the alt key to toggle between zoom in/out when left clicking.


Now, more ontopic for this discussion, I think this thread would be more useful to focus on FGU. I think it's pretty safe to say that there aren't going to be any major changes to FGC. And, further, FGU has entirely different architecture options. So saying "X can't be done in FGC" may not be true for FGU.


For me, optimized FGU window management starts with tabbed asset windows and ends with windows that can be sized and placed independent of the root app (i.e. dragged outside the app, resized, and positioned on other monitors.) I don't know if unity allows for that sort of architecture, but it's the most flexible method I can think of and solves all kinds of problems.

I want it to be focused on everything that can be done and that would be productive (See the 3 points on my initial post).

if something cant be done on FGC but can in the FGU, that should contain on the list.

I am not a programmer, so i do not know what can or cant be done unless someone clearly explains that to me.

But well, keep ideas coming.. i think i will be doing the list on wishlist at the end of this week.

[Henrique Oliveira Machado]

So, what you guys think when you say A tabbed asset?

What layout do you have in mind?

1- Every image opens a small tab that when clicked the image would highlight?
2- Tabs that you can open and drag images/story/tables to it and then click on it and it will highlight all of them?
3- Small Tabs at the top of the screen that you create on a (+) button and it opens a whole new blank screen that you can open things in there, just like a browser?

I think the third option would be great.

[Henrique Oliveira Machado]

Another idea:
- Being able to hide/show the right sidebar (show as default). It takes too much screen space and is not used all the time (at least not if we use pins). Create a double clickable bar to quickly hide/show the sidebar and make that screen space available.

[Ckorik]

So, what you guys think when you say A tabbed asset?

What layout do you have in mind?

Ideally? Tabs that can be renamed on the top that you can right click any window and 'send to tab->'name'' - and by 'any window' I mean any window including the chat - with any window that has a change making the tab 'flash' - so if you moved chat to another tab it would blink if someone typed text in...

I mean - the last part is 'nice' but just having tabs to toss things into so we can *find* it again would be huge. The... 'advanced' tab feature would let you have two tabs open side by side of course - which would fit into the 'window management' that the program uses.

After typing all that out I'd take being able to make a combat map 'float' so I can drag it off to another monitor - but I mean I don't know the programming and what would be 'easier' - or if either would even really be possible.

[Henrique Oliveira Machado]

I liked the idea of having tabs, that said I'd settle for a shortcut to cycle through open windows.

Liked it. Added to the list.

[Henrique Oliveira Machado]

Ideally? Tabs that can be renamed on the top that you can right click any window and 'send to tab->'name'' - and by 'any window' I mean any window including the chat - with any window that has a change making the tab 'flash' - so if you moved chat to another tab it would blink if someone typed text in...

I mean - the last part is 'nice' but just having tabs to toss things into so we can *find* it again would be huge. The... 'advanced' tab feature would let you have two tabs open side by side of course - which would fit into the 'window management' that the program uses.

After typing all that out I'd take being able to make a combat map 'float' so I can drag it off to another monitor - but I mean I don't know the programming and what would be 'easier' - or if either would even really be possible.

i think clicking on the image and dragging it into the tab ou want it to go would work better. There are already lots of options in the radial menu and we do not want it to be crowded with options, adding to the confusion and increasing the learning curve of the software

I think the CT and the chat should be shared by all tabs

[Griffonbait]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but I like the idea of window docking as in, say, MS Visual Studio's IDE.

Docking should also include tabbed documents within those windows (Doc tabs at top, section tabs on side, with alternate options), as well as standard floating windows. The combat tracker is a good example where this could be used in the Starfinder ruleset. PCs CT and Starships CT could be docked into the one window for easy swapping via tabs.