Dice withoout numbers.

[shadzar]

Not to be confused with SWN.... but my goal is dice that don't have numbers shown, but do calculate numbers for a result as seen here:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/241248808

The dice images were changed and the results add up for each type of die rolled the correct number of faces for the type of die roll. However the phantom 1 and 0 are appearing on the dice.

getting the dice image changed and rolling to show the different faces was "easy" enough, but for the life of me i can't figure out how to not put a number on the actual dice as is done with the Fudge die.


#2
also, when trying to roll the dice in the tower i get yelled at for:



Script Error: [string "scripts/manager_actions.lua"]:628: attempt to index field '?' (a nil value)


and 628 is fine outside of the tower, and is how it all runs to begin with.

i only added some comments to tell myself where i added things and what things are doing, so it goes as follows from line 608~628 of coreRPG modified


function createActionMessage(rSource, rRoll)
local sDesc = rRoll.sDesc;

-- Build the basic message to deliver
local rMessage = ChatManager.createBaseMessage(rSource, rRoll.sUser);
rMessage.type = rRoll.sType;
rMessage.text = rMessage.text .. sDesc;
--the die roll
rMessage.dice = rRoll.aDice;
--need 3 different dice
--anyone attacks
--hero defends
--monster defends
--show only total of correct die faces
--show only the die faces no numbers on them
--deal with dice modifiers later
rMessage.diemodifier = rRoll.nMod;

-- HeroQuest dice
--your edit here dummy
if rMessage.dice[1].type == "HQ Attack" then


doesnt matter which of the three methods i try to roll as in the video, it always hangs on that line 628 when attempting to use the tower. has no problem just throw the dice into chat.

the only other way to reproduce is to change dice[0].type, then i get that error both trying to roll in tower and in chat.

[damned]

Hi shadzar you cannot manipulate the actual 3d dice.
The fate dice is an actual dice coded that way in the engine.
Access to these is not available in this engine.

In the unmodified manager_actions.lua lines 619-626 are dealing with dice tower rolls...
Is it possible you havent closed a statement or have an extra/missing end etc?

Nice job on the Hero Quest rolls.

[Trenloe]

#1 - you can't change the actual 3D dice - these are built into the FG client application code.

#2 - put some debug code in the LUA before the error - something like Debug.console("rMessage = ", rMessage); This will output the whole of the rMessage record and it might give you an idea what data is missing when you roll in the tower. It looks like at least dice[1].type is missing, but there might be more data missing that might give you an idea of what is causing the issue.

[shadzar]

not the 3d dice, as you can see in the video, how i changed the d6 model to act as the HQ dice, and give the same faces in chat, but only added the successful rolls for the type of roll being made. If anything, i would want to completely DISABLE the 3d dice animations, not change them as they serve no function in FG or the other VTTs except for nostalgia.

nothing is unclosed, else the dice wouldn't be rolling via the chat drag&drop.

dice[1].type is the first die in the table of rolls and the way it figures out which type of custom die is being rolled, so that can't be the cause. i will try throwing that debug into it just prior to line 628.

it is faint in the video, but you can still see the 0 and 1 displaying on the die faces in chat. that is what i want to remove. only show the faces, not the corresponding numbers, and then show the results. so far that all works, except it is still showing the number over the die face for each rolled dice.

EDIT: nope, debug didn't help, everything is the same except...



s'dice' = { #1 = { s'result' = #1, s'type' = s'd6' } }


becomes...


s'dice' = { #1 = { s'result' = #4, s'type' = s'HQ Attack' } }


so the d6 result was a 1, the HQ result was a 4. and dice[1].type is d6 for the normal d6, and HQ Attack for the HQ Attack die as expected.

[Trenloe]

Don't use "HQ Attack" as a die type name. Start with a lower case "d" and don't use any spaces to define your <customdie>

Re not rolling the actual die - see the info here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/refdoc/customdie.xcp If you don't have a physical die model to roll, then you can only access the custom die through code. You can't drag/drop etc..

[Trenloe]

Additionally, if you want to use the chat command /die with your customdie make sure you use dX.. for the customdie name - where X.. is a unique numerical value that doesn't match with any other dice. e.g. d611 or something similar.

[shadzar]

Don't use "HQ Attack" as a die type name. Start with a lower case "d" and don't use any spaces to define your <customdie>

Re not rolling the actual die - see the info here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/refdoc/customdie.xcp If you don't have a physical die model to roll, then you can only access the custom die through code. You can't drag/drop etc..

dHQ_Attack then?

and they do drag and drop into chat currently, just not in the tower, but that may be fixed if i am understanding you.

about the /die command, not interested as the dice will be rolled via a click on the character sheet if i can ever figure out that part AFTER there is proper dice to roll :D

EDIT: no change in the dice command name. starting with d and no paces resulted in the same previous error form the dice tower... oh well i can leave the tower permanently disabled in data_options_core so it isnt that big a deal since it wont be fully automated as it wont include the rules to play as that would not be legal... someone will have to own the game to use it... mostly myself since demo FG can't have more than one connected player ;)


so back to #1... how to make the die result NOT show on the dice, while still having a result total? [B]dicedisplay=1[/B shows the result of the die rolls, but how do you get rid of the numbers on the die in chat?

[damned]

Do you mean the numbers on the faces of the dice when they stop rolling?
If so you cant get rid of them.
You could instead of using dice just use a math.random function and skip all the dice bouncing around the screen alltogether?

[shadzar]

ok, if you load coreRPG and the die on the far right, roll about 10 of them, they will either give you a +, -, or nothing on the die face in chat

not the 3d junk, not the animation, in chat. what i want is the nothing to show on that square that represents the face of the d6.

i want the fac of the die in chat for each die rolled, but i do NOT want a number displayed on it. again it is faint in the video if you look at the chat . but ANY dice you roll yo will see the result on the dice icon.

i want the dice face in chat, and the result of counting the dice faces. i do NOT want the numbers on the faces of dice in chat.

[damned]

The Fate Dice has - 2 pluses, 2 minuses and 2 blanks. Its a 3d dice that is built with 2 blank faces. On average, one in 3 fate dice will land with no number showing. The rest of the time a symbol will display.

[shadzar]

RIGHT! so how do i get my dice, to not display anything such as with that die when it ONLY shows the blank square for the dice image? because the faces of the die which is the dice image in chat will show what it needs to show, it doesnt need the number sitting on top of it to obfuscate the actual die face image.

i want the result in chat to only show the die faces rolled, and the total without numebrs overlaying the die faces. so what is doing it with that Fate die?

when the Fate die doesnt show + or -, what is causing it to show nothing, while stil tabulating the results of the "total" or "sum" of the die rolls, with nothing written on the die faces in chat?

[damned]

Im not sure If Im following correctly or not.

The Fate Dice has been 3d rendered with 2 blank faces and exists in the Engine. There is no way to add new 3d dice or modify existing 3d dice.
When the Fate dice shows a blank result it is because its landed with the blank face up.
In Fate you add the pluses, remove the minuses and ignore the blanks and hope that you end up with a positive result.

If you look at the Warhammer rulesets and the Star Wars: Edge of the Empire ruleset they do pretty much what you have done.
They roll an existing 3d dice with the correct number of sides and replace the output that is being sent to chat with bitmaps of symbols.
You still see the dice land with an 8 or a 3 or whatever but the Chat only shows the correct messages.


(I believe thats what they are doing anyway...)

[shadzar]

22919
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=22919
look closely the first dice has the number 1 on top of it, the 3rd dice has the number 0 on it. i do NOT want the numbers shown on the dice in chat... i do want everything else that is there in chat.

(also the 2nd dice has a 0 on it, but you can only barely see it)

this is exactly what those Fate/Fudge dice do when NOT displaying the + or - on the dice... HOW?

EDIT: i tried looking at SW:EotE it doesnt do what i am trying to do unfortunately because it puts words like "success" and such instead of the total for the die rolled. i need numeric output where the 7 is in the image.

EDIT 2: Which warhammer? there is 6 rulesets for warhammer

[damned]

Dont worry about looking at Warhammer as the dice from SW:EotE were using similar code so if its not what works for you it wont work using the Warhammer stuff either.

[damned]

22919

look closely the first dice has the number 1 on top of it, the 3rd dice has the number 0 on it. i do NOT want the numbers shown on the dice in chat... i do want everything else that is there in chat.

(also the 2nd dice has a 0 on it, but you can only barely see it)

this is exactly what those Fate/Fudge dice do when NOT displaying the + or - on the dice... HOW?


Forgive my idiocy but Ive looked at your screenshot and your video and cannot see a 3rd dice with a Zero on it.
You cannot change what the 3D dice look like other than their colour.

[shadzar]

so FG currently lacks the functionality to display a die face without showing the corresponding number, while at th same time adding the tables total?

going back to this table/array:



s'dice' = { #1 = { s'result' = #1, s'type' = s'd6' } }


where the result is showing both the die face and the number, there needs a new filed for s'face'?

maybe boolean wherein true shows only the die face image, and false shows both the die face mage and the number on top of it?

but if added? where in the world would i tell the chat printer what that new field in the array is and how to react to it?

[shadzar]

Forgive my idiocy but Ive looked at your screenshot and your video and cannot see a 3rd dice with a Zero on it.
You cannot change what the 3D dice look like other than their colour.

look in the chat. 3rd dice. looks like a shield with a lion or something on it... ignore the 3d dice competely.

in FG when a dice is in chat it has 2 components built form the s'dice' portion of the dice table in a chat message. there is the die face [s'type'], in just about ALL of FG this is a polyhedral shape representing the type of die rolled, and it has a number on top [s'result'], because they don't make dice with pips on them digitally i guess?

it is the chat output where the bajillion dice i rolled is in the image, that the 3rd dice has the 0 on it. and s'type' controls the die face image shown in chat and the number on it
is s'result', but i want to count the results, but not display the actual result on top of the die face image.

[damned]

Ill be honest you might have lost me.

You cant change the 3D dice and you cant change the face that lands up.
Something similar may have come up in the past in regards to Fudging rolls - eg being able to tell the dice what should be on top?

You will probably need either Trenloe or more likely Moon Wizard to chime in here I think.

Is it only an aesthetics issue right now? As in the rest of the roll and display is working?

You might keep moving forward on other things until one of the above chances upon your thread...

[damned]

Edit: I see a pindercarl below and while he doesnt know the current engine as well as Moon Wizard he probably knows the new engine better than anyone....

[damned]

look in the chat. 3rd dice. looks like a shield with a lion or something on it... ignore the 3d dice competely.

OK!
I see it now. It might also be on the Skulls too.
And I still have no idea how to help you with it!

[shadzar]

OK!
I see it now. It might also be on the Skulls too.
And I still have no idea how to help you with it!

Correct! it is on the skulls also for this type of roll, but the white 0 overlaying the skull blends in mostly with the skull. the black shield you can see the 1 on top of the face, literal as it is a creatures face on the black circle.

0 and 1 was used to make the total result count the correct die face images for the type of roll being made ;) but since it can count the total of true and ignore the false with the simple math of adding all the 1's, then i don't need the actual 0 or 1 numbers to show on the dice.

the original dice are white and black, but other dice from expansions were possibly different colors, so when they are added the white numbers on the dice will be in the way. it is purely aesthetic, but annoying for a VTT to not be able to have that somewhere easily to find in the dice rolling or output to just NOT show the number on top of the dice image.

:)

[damned]

Ok so I think this is very likely something that Moon Wizard would need to chime in on but I think he is this fortnight on Unity with Carl and Zeph so dont hold your breath on the response as it could have an unfortunate effect on your health...

[shadzar]

i am trying to find the actual chat message constructor, and do the debug thing Trenloe suggested there, just not having good luck, cause if i can break that array apart and read it, i can tell it to not show the dice result text on the dice face images with a simple little fix. just finding the bloody thing is not that easy, but now i know what i am looking for.


still would be nice to have it a setting like dicedisplay can show the dice or not, or double them or quad them.. where you could just show the dice mages without the numbers on them while still having the result count of the dice. would open FG up to every board game every made that uses custom dice (not custom sizes) with something simple like that.

[pindercarl]

Edit: I see a pindercarl below and while he doesnt know the current engine as well as Moon Wizard he probably knows the new engine better than anyone....

I've been following this thread and was looking at a couple of options. You are correct that I don't know the FG Classic code base terribly well, but I have some thoughts about possible solutions. It hasn't panned out yet. I'll bring it up with John tomorrow. I haven't seen anywhere that the display numbers on the die results can be disabled and from what I can tell the string result is hard-coded for Fate dice and in all other cases the result is displayed as a string. There may not be a good answer.

Is it safe to assume for Heroquest that only the special dice are rolled and no other die types need to be supported?

[shadzar]

normal d6 is also needed, and i think d4. i would have o get the box out of the closet again, that is why i left the d4 there, some spell on an expansion or something so the expansion came with d4, and movement i think is based on numerical d6.

it came with the special d6 (white dice with black iconogrpahy), and normal pipped d6 (red with white pips), for the original HeroQuest board game.


long answer short, it needs both custom face die, and numerical die.

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/699/heroquest


HeroQuest Inventory (US Version)....................(Uk Version)
1 Game board............................................. .1 Game board
1 Instruction Booklet....................................1 Instruction Booklet
1 Quest Book with 14 Quests......................1 Quest Book with 14 Quests
1 Evil sorcerer screen..................................1 Evil sorcerer screen
1 Information Table
1 Pad of Characters Sheets........................1 Pad of Characters Sheets
6 White Combat Dice.................................4 White Combat Dice
2 Red Six Sided Dice...................................2 Red Six Sided Dice

[shadzar]

Attack from a different angle. say you can NOT disable the numbers textually displaying on top of the dice images in chat.

is there a way to change the color of the text numbers that display on the dice images to "transparent" like you could with CSS in HTML? that would effectively remove them from showing, because you couldn't see them.



_Red_
_Green_
_Blue_
_Transparent_




_[ COLOR="#FF0000"]Red[/COLOR]_
_[ COLOR="#00FF00"]Green[/COLOR]_
_[ COLOR="#0000FF"]Blue[/COLOR]_
_[ COLOR="transparent"]Transparent[/COLOR]_

[shadzar]

tried changing <font name="dieresult"> color to "transparent" and "red", and it worked on a normal d6, tried on the custom dice and it appeared as black, so FG converts alphabetical color names to black, and only accepts hexcode for colors. :(

oh, well attack from the flank then... how do i tell this one type of die roll to use a different font, and i will just make a font wherein the numbers 1 and 0 are just empty for the customdice for HQ, the total result will be the normal color so it will display like usual, and no other chat or dice rolls will be effected except this custom_face_dice will use a custom_face_diceresult font?

[damned]

Hi shadzar Ive just loaded up the Star Wars: Edge of the Empire ruleset and thrown 20 odd dice into the dice pool and rolled.
It is showing all the dice and showing the extra information. I think its worth having a look.

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=22920

22920

[shadzar]

if i had any idea what any of that meant, it might help, but i have no clue what any of that is or anything about the Star Wars RPGs.

for example the failure line includes too many images that do not appear in the results. only 2 appear in results, while the failures line has 3 shown of that icon. That would really only be helpful to someone that understand SW:EOTE unfortunately, because the outcome is only gibberish to me, not having a clue what it should mean.

[damned]

if i had any idea what any of that meant, it might help, but i have no clue what any of that is or anything about the Star Wars RPGs.

for example the failure line includes too many images that do not appear in the results. only 2 appear in results, while the failures line has 3 shown of that icon. That would really only be helpful to someone that understand SW:EOTE unfortunately, because the outcome is only gibberish to me, not having a clue what it should mean.

There are 5 of them. Its the symbol not the colour that matters. The colour indicates where the dice came from. The two successes cancel out 2 of the 5 failures leaving 3 failures (I think).
But none of that is important.
What Im pointing at is that they are NOT displaying the FG standard dice results but replacing them entirely with their own output but still based on the dice results.

[shadzar]

22921
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=22921

where is the rest of it though? see it may be counting the red dice like this image, but it doesnt show that count.

also if you try looking into that ruleset and just follow the path of dSetback, there is so much stuff going on for that single dice in the new dicebox, that i have absolutely know idea where is it going to get from point A to point B.

SW:EOTE is re-inventing the wheel, i wouldn't have a clue how to build any of that off coreRPG, i would have to use SW:EOTE and re-write it for HQ. there is just too much stuff going on in it to do that.

all i need is the red, blue and green dice shown, without the numbers on them. it shouldn't take re-inventing the wheel to do that.

[Trenloe]

if i had any idea what any of that meant, it might help, but i have no clue what any of that is or anything about the Star Wars RPGs.
Don't get bogged down with not understanding the Star Wars dice mechanic. The key thing here is that all of those dice result icons don't have the dice number on them. That's what' you're looking for, right?

FG automatically puts the number of the die roll result on the die icon image using the dieresult font. IT's hard coded to use this <font> definition name. You can change the font that is used for the whole ruleset, you can't change it on the fly.

So, the way to remove numbers from the dice result icons is to use a <font name="dieresult"> FGF file that doesn't have any graphics for the numbers. This is what the Star Wars ruleset does. Look at the base.xml and dieresult.fgf in graphics\fonts - the codes 0-9 in the font FGF file have blank graphics.

The issue with doing this, as it is campaign wide, is that if you actually want to roll some numerical dice (maybe a random encounter chance?) the dice icons for normal will come up blank. The Star Wars ruleset gets around this by having dice result icons made for each of the results of the normal numerical dice (in graphics\dice) and the individual dice graphic icons specified in definitions\dice.xml and base.xml in the individual dice graphics\dice\d<X> directory.

[shadzar]

FG automatically puts the number of the die roll result on the die icon image using the dieresult font. IT's hard coded to use this <font> definition name. You can change the font that is used for the whole ruleset

this just seems so bass ackwards by design. you can turn off the result and show only the numbers on the dice, but you can't turn off the numbers on the dice and show only the result.

that is going to be a complete PITA to have to reproduce every die graphic for every regular polyhedral dice face....

100+20+12+10+8+6+4....

i think i would rather just play HQ on VASSAL. The effort is not worth the reward. Sad really, this is the thing that blocks FG from being ready to use for any board game, the lack of native ability to just not show a number on the dice, while still doing the normal polyhedral dice math. and there is a new D&D board game coming out by WizKids this summer too. :(

[Trenloe]

that is going to be a complete PITA to have to reproduce every die graphic for every regular polyhedral dice face....

100+20+12+10+8+6+4....
As I said in my post, this is what the Star Wars ruleset does, so these graphics are already available for use.

[pindercarl]

What Trenloe is describing is basically what I was going to suggest. The EOTE dice system is fairly complex, but as he points out, most of the work has been done for you if borrow the graphic assets from EOTE. This has raised some issues that I think are worth addressing in FGU as we will be expanding the ability to customize dice.

[shadzar]

its good for if/when FGU comes out for those people that can run it. those that can't afford $2000 for new computers and the upgrade etc to run a bloated 3d rendering engine for a top-down tabletop, it won't help if it isn't a part of the current FG. (Yes worldwide people are still using Windows XP because it still works even though Microsoft isnt pushing updates for it because not everyone, especially tabletop gamers, need to buy a $16,000 gaming computer to play tabletop games.)
I can't see why it couldn't be added to current FG, unless SW doesnt own the source code?

just some basic ideas to resolve the issue with current FG...

gameelements.xml add to each dice <die> and <customdie> some new XML

<hideresult />

will work like the <center /> where it applies, and will allow any regular or custom dice to hide the numbers on the dice for whatever reason.

in graphics_fonts.xml just add under the dieresult a section that is a new font with the blank numeric values so the dice don't display numbers on them, because the hiddenresult.fgf for the hideresult font has only blank spaces for the numbers, such as Trenloe did for ALL dieresults

to make backwards compatible then FG itself (FantasyGrounds.exe) needs to include this pseudo-code into the sections where it does the Comm.chatmessage/whatever to evaluate the new <hideresult/> option in the XML.



if(!isset(hideresult)){
##do everything like is being done now, no change, make it a function call to output the chat line even.
}else{
##switch fonts to the hidden one
dice[x].switchFont(/dieresult/g,"hideresult");
##do everything like is being done now, no change, make it a function call to output the chat line even.
}

again pseudo-code, so you get the idea...

this would allow existing rulesets without the <hideresult /> tag function as normal since it isnt set for any of the dice, and for people wanting to use it going forward, they just need to have the new font in the aforementioned XML for fonts, then add the new XML tag and even numeric dice as well as custom dice can benefit from hiding the numeric values on the dice by using the new font that just doesn't have numbers to display vis-a-vis Trenloe method. i wouldn't think it would cause any XML parsing errors to add a new tag to dice like this? :confused:

Then you don't have to reformat the numeric die rolls with images, and people using extensions to make FG visually impaired friendly, can have their 14pt clear font, so they can actually read things inside it without having to create all the dice faces in multiple sizes to match the font size chosen by the table host. Which unfortunately is a problem with the Trenloe method that the dice icon images use, as the numbers for dice don't scale with fonts or extensions, as they are static images and not bound by the font rules.


As I said in my post, this is what the Star Wars ruleset does, so these graphics are already available for use.

i was unaware you were allowed to modify/use from rulesets other than coreRPG...

[Trenloe]

i was unaware you were allowed to modify/use from rulesets other than coreRPG...
It's always good to ask. Just assuming you can't use stuff in other community creations will limit your options on code re-use and graphics etc. Most community developers will allow you to reuse their creations. But always ask for permission and give credit where appropriate.

It's OK for you to use the dice graphics from the Star Wars ruleset.

The dice graphics were originally produced by community member Stuart. Maybe put a mention in your code/chat window message if you use them,

[LordEntrails]

its good for if/when FGU comes out for those people that can run it. those that can't afford $2000 for new computers and the upgrade etc to run a bloated 3d rendering engine for a top-down tabletop, it won't help if it isn't a part of the current FG. (Yes worldwide people are still using Windows XP because it still works even though Microsoft isnt pushing updates for it because not everyone, especially tabletop gamers, need to buy a $16,000 gaming computer to play tabletop games.).
Huh? Not wanting to argue this statement, but I think it's important to comment on in case others read this and might be concerned.

I think there's some miss understanding about FGU. Though Tabletop Connect had 3D rendering and SmiteWorks purchased TTC, there has been no talk or indications that FGU will have 3D rendering when it is initially released. There is also no reason to believe that a high performance gaming computer will be needed, not to mind some sort of extreme $16k computer.

Now, given that Windows XP is ~15 years old and has been unsupported for ~4 years and is only 3.42% of the computers that run Windows O/S's (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems#Desktop_and_lapto p_computers), I would not expect FGU to be supported on that platform. I would not expect any new application to be supported on such an obsolete and unsupported operating system, and personally I would think it could be argued that intentionally designing new applications for the platform to be an extremely poor business decision.

[shadzar]

we can cherrypick numbers all day. FGU should then be being made for smartphones not desktop machines then as per that link.
Smartphones (52.4%)

lets look at population density...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_population_d ensity

China is number 1, a country that doesn't have 3 comptuers per person, but likely one, and refer back to your given article...


Web analysis shows significant variation in different parts of the world. For example, in North America usage of Windows XP has dropped to 2.06%, but in Africa it is still at 11.02%[79] and Asia at 6.63%[80] (even higher in China, but down to 18.21%, tied with Win10 at second

1 in 5 computers in China is WindowsXP. China having a population of 1.4 billion.

and the data was even from a service that is used less that the reported use of Windows XP...


StatCounter is used on 2.1% of all websites.

so the numbers it gives, basically means nothing.

the 3d engine functionalities of Unity and its "rendering engine" for them have already been shown in use with the moving water, and falling rain.

the point of it all was, there may be people that don't upgrade to FGU, like those that don't just go for the "shiny" for no reason and upgrade OS because they were told to like most Western countries. and it shouldn't be too hard to also implement dice without numbers via a little fix to Classic, as opposed to say the whole dynamic lighting which requires Unity to do; with a little edit to the XML parser to accept he new tag provided above, a new "blank" font like Trenloe created for EOTE, a segment for that font in the fonts XML, and a little checker for the new tag in the core Comm.whatever to identify which die rolls should utilize the normal font that will display number on the dice icons, and which all display blank text font over the dice icons to allow their images to be all that is seen in chat.

because FantasyGrounds.exe would have to be edited, and it wouldn't be possible with any sort of extension to just add a new font that isnt recognized by the core code of Classic.

Many board games don't need "dynamic lighting" that use non-numeric faced dice, and Classic can easily implement all thing a board game needs except showing those type of dice. Heck drawing cards can even be done with tables (/rollon CommunityChest), and playing them to the "board" (image/map) could be facilitated with tokens.

it is good if FGU can also do it, but Classic is here now and FGU has been "coming soon" for 4 years. some people on Win10 may have no interest for FGU even. If FG is going to expand usefulness to board games, why wait? where is coreBoard.pak?

d20 Grounds? WotC-only club software?

[damned]

shadzar as you yourself pointed out none of the VTTs do everything you want them to.
The request to do what you are doing here has come up... hmmm... not many times - I cant say its never come up but it doesnt come up very often...
There is little incentive and almost zero business reason to divert resources from existing projects to address what is a non issue for 99.98% of FG users.
You have voiced what you would like.
It has been seen, and heard.
Unless a dev chimes in and says they are going to do it - its not going to change no matter how many times you state how easy it would be to fix or query why they wouldnt fix it.
There is a workaround. Elegant? No. But it works for games that have far more complex dice requirements than Hero Quest and will work for Hero Quest.
Have a look at the Mutant Year Zero extension for a simpler view of the implementation - in fact it probably has most of what you need.

Has FGU taken longer than SmiteWorks anticipated?
Yes. Much longer. But they are not going to release a half arsed version.
They are working hard towards it being a very good v1 of the product.
And so - it will be here when its here.

Fantasy Grounds existed long before the Wizards deals.
Fantasy Grounds had content licenses with other publishers long before the Wizards deal.
The Wizards deal has been good for both companies but both will survive without the other.

Cherry picking data is all well and good if you cherry pick relevant data.
You dont have to have rain effects and dynamic lighting etc if you dont want them.
Ive never seen Fantasy Grounds talk about expanding to board games. Vassal and Table Top Simulator do a good job of those already.
Fantasy Grounds in its current interface is not suited to playing on mobile phones... so its not a very useful stat to concentrate on.
Fantasy Grounds is very English-centric - and with the size of the company, with the vast bulk of source material being in English - worrying about African and Asian languages is not a realistic concern.

I think the progress you have made is fantastic.
Kudos to you.
I think you will be able to finish it off too if stop worrying about all the things that cant be done and all the what ifs, and you work with what is and what can be done.
I do hope you find your way to finishing the project.
I could play the odd game of Hero Quest on nights when the party is a bit too skinny to take on Strahd.

[LordEntrails]

I think you've been pointed to it before, but if you want the developers to consider product improvement ideas, they should be made on the official wishlist; https://fg2app.idea.informer.com/

[shadzar]

Rob mentioned that site on one of his Twitch streams, but his VODs are behind a paywall so you can't go back and see them to see chat alongside them where he posted the link in chat without paying, and the free version of the video containing them on Youtube, doesn't including the chat replay from Twitch alongside it, because Youtube isn't Twitch so they can't offer that. but i have bookmarked it now. :)


I do hope you find your way to finishing the project.
I could play the odd game of Hero Quest on nights when the party is a bit too skinny to take on Strahd.

well all other VTTs do have the ability to roll dice without numbers on them or with... so ergo d20 Grounds, it seems Board Games was never an intent in the design of FG even from whoever initially designed it, and again good for FGU to possess this new ability, glad i could bring it up for pidnercarl to think on, but i just don't think FGU shoudl be required for this since it isnt as complicated as the dynamic lighting requiring a whole new game engine.

doesn't mean i expect it for Classic tomorrow, but i think it should be something easy enough to add to classic, since it is within the core functionality of FG. just seems being dismissed as "never going to appear in classic" seems little offputting to want to continue suggesting/promoting FG to people. as HQ was a question "Can FG play board games?" i set out t find, found zero rulesets, then set out to make, and that one little thing should be a core function of a VTT, not need the vast workaround that Trenloe put into effect.

IF i get it done, you are saying i could share the ruleset on FG and FG would bare the burden of responsibility of it being distributed from the FG website servers? since i don't have any sort of license to make it or anything, it is fully self-driven and for self use... those darn IP legalities and all that.

(I partially blame Doug and Dave for making their minis game in FG also since they spurred me to move forward with the idea that board games, and other "non-d20-based RPG" games could work in FG.)

[damned]

You can release a free ruleset without a license.
SmiteWorks are largely ok with you re-using code from existing rulesets (their own) and most community developers are likewise ok with the practice - for new community (free) rulesets.
Commercial rulesets require a license with SmiteWorks.

You cannot copyright game rules (at least in America and several other jurisdictions).
It is possible to make a game identical to 5e, using all the same mechanics, even having monsters with different names and descriptions but identical stats and copyright law is on your side.
Logos, names, story can all be protected.

You could make a Hero Quest game and Milton Bradley could do little providing you didnt use their name, logos, artwork or copy out their rules verbatim.
In most cases a fan made ruleset that sported the logo would not warrant any attention from the Publisher providing it made no attempt to pass itself off as an official product - however the IP holder would be within their rights to have you remove the logo.

Anyways - there are 2 or three dozen free rulesets hosted on this website - but not in the Patch System. Look in the Wiki under Community Rulesets.

EDIT: Slight ammendment...

[Moon Wizard]

shadzar,

I have been monitoring this thread. I haven't had anything to add, since Trenloe and Damned have given very reasonable answers so far.

While it would be interesting to allow custom 3D skins for dice to support all the variety of unique dice out there, it is not on our priority list for current FG or FGU right now. I know Carl and I have spoken about this internally, but we've talked about a lot of ideas that won't make the cut.

In our current development for FGU, we have some stuff that we are prototyping to allow more customization of die results display in the chat window, but it's still in development, and may or may not make it into the first version.

As for board games, that was my big concept when I started working on FG 8 years ago. However, I soon discovered that creating a good VTT just for RPGs is a huge project all on its own. Plus, we've found that licensing for board games is even messier and less likely to be granted than licensing for RPGs. (especially since everyone keeps making one-off apps for board games on tablets/phones for all the popular board games.)

We appreciate the enthusiasm, but we are a small company that has learned that the best way to survive in the RPG industry is to pace yourself.

Cheers,
JPG

[Varsuuk]

Hey, to be clear, which are the “Smiteworks” rulesets for which we can borrow window backgrounds and the like art from when making a ruleset?

[Moon Wizard]

We can only grant permission for the free rulesets that we ship with the FG client, for which we generated graphics. (i.e. 3.5E, 4E, 5E, PFRPG)
In the commercially sold rulesets, many of the background/frame graphics are derived from book artwork, and thus are not ours to be shared.

Regards,
JPG

[shadzar]

While it would be interesting to allow custom 3D skins for dice

https://static-cdn.jtvnw.net/emoticons/v1/360/1.0