Welcome to the Arena

[Wraith]

Come One Come All!
I am starting a slave pit fighting campaign using D&D characters... this is not a roleplaying campaign. Rather this is a character creation and use compatition. I will over watch each battle and "Referee" the rules this is a PvP arena battle. Create characters bring them to weekly matches and test your abilities. The following are rules for character creation and fighter submission.

Character Creation
Abilities Scores
Characters used in this campaign will be made from a 28 point standard point buy system listed in the 3.5e DMG.

Races
Only races located in the 3.5e PHB are allowed for character creation, and the apropriate sub-race must be noted on the character's character sheet.

Classes
Only classes located in the 3.5e PHB and DMG are authorized for starting characters. No prestige classes are allowed at this time.

Hit Points
Each character gets the maximum number of hit points allowed for his character class, including Constitution modifiers.

Starting Gold
New characters start with the maximum gold allowed for a character of it's type according to the 3.5e PHB pg 111 (Table 7-1 Random Starting Gold).

Feats and Skills
Only feats and Skills in the Core Rule Books are allowed and all rules regarding these areas are followed.

Magic Spells
Only spells listed in the 3.5e PHB are allowed for starting characters. Monsters summoned by spells must have stats in the 3.5e MM, and complex spell such as wish, limited wish, and miracle will not be allowed to be choosen. (A complete list of band spells will be located on the campaign page.)

Magic Items
You can purchase any Magical Items out of the 3.5e DMG with exception to any unique items or articacts. No one item can be worth more then 1/4 the total of the characters gear.

Fighter Submission
I will open the server the day before events to allow character submission. Players will be required to stand-by while your characters is checked for incunsitancies. Any unauthorized characters will not be allowed to compete until the next scheduled event.

[joshuha]

Wraith no need to get defensive. I voted on the poll when I had a quick chance while at work and was going to respond later.

Also, not sure if this post was before or after you came to the IRC channel for a chat and I gave my opinion there.

I have run arena type events before and I just don't think the D&D system is a good ruleset to use for this. As I suggested in IRC a point based system such as GURPS/Champion/Mutants and Masterminds would be much more suitable for this.

The ultimate problem in this is balance. D&D was designed from the ground up as a party based game. Also characters are generally balanced on their usefulness over the course of an entire adventure and not just a combat or even series of combats.

For example, take rogues. They are great at all kinds of utility (skill based) but to be effective in combat they really benefit on being hidden first (bluffing being the exception). Will you allow rogues to start out hidden? Will their be traps in the arena (this could actually be a good idea)? Etc.?

Then we goto Wizard/Sorcerer for my next balance issue. Their spells per day were design as a limit per day. If a Wizard burns out all his spells in a normal D&D adventure in one encounter it will almost always come out in their favor. But the counterbalance to that is that they are useless for the next 6 encounters or whatever in that dungeon. How is this going to be balanced in an arena format? Limit spells per day? Limit offensive spells? All it takes is a Sleep spell + Coup De Grace and its game over at lower levels.

I think that it COULD be done but you are going to have to come up with a very strict set of rules to come up with the proper balance. I wish you the best in it and its possible there may even be some attempts to do this in the past for others that DO have those balance considerations that you could use as well.

Also, if you do decide to say do a superhero based one using those systems above I have experience doing those and would be happy to participate. Good luck!

[Cypher]

Well thanks for voting but how about giving a reason. Just cause you don't like the way I present the idea doesn't mean the idea is bad. So if you leave a negative vote how about telling everyone why you want to shoot down other peoples ideas ghedrain, cypher and joshuha.:mad:

Excuse me, but I didn't "shoot down" any idea.

The plain fact of the matter is you included a poll that said "Who would like to compete in this type of event?". I assumed that you were using this as marketing research so I submitted my honest response " I would not like to compete in this type of event."

Now, unfortunately, you've taken that as a personal attack, and turned around to attack those few who have bothered to vote in your poll.

I'm sorry you are mad, but I will publicly state that this idea does not interest me. I'm sorry, but that's how it is. I have to give no reason other than "I am not interested".

I hope this goes well for you, and you have a successful campaign.

[Wraith]

Wraith no need to get defensive. I voted on the poll when I had a quick chance while at work and was going to respond later.
Then why not wait until you post to vote?

I have run arena type events before and I just don't think the D&D system is a good ruleset to use for this. As I suggested in IRC a point based system such as GURPS/Champion/Mutants and Masterminds would be much more suitable for this.
The problem with that is I am not familiar with those game systems, don't have the time nor money to learn or buy a new books. To acomadate what you think would be a better game system.

The ultimate problem in this is balance. D&D was designed from the ground up as a party based game. Also characters are generally balanced on their usefulness over the course of an entire adventure and not just a combat or even series of combats.
Well then it wouldn't be very smart for a person to pick that kind of character unless they have an idea that might give them the edge.

For example, take rogues. They are great at all kinds of utility (skill based) but to be effective in combat they really benefit on being hidden first (bluffing being the exception). Will you allow rogues to start out hidden? Will their be traps in the arena (this could actually be a good idea)? Etc.?
Yes there could easly be traps in the area, or tigers that would give a rogue a flanking bonus and his sneak attack bonus. These are things I have thought of, and I want the players to think of these things to make the game interesting.

Then we goto Wizard/Sorcerer for my next balance issue. Their spells per day were design as a limit per day. If a Wizard burns out all his spells in a normal D&D adventure in one encounter it will almost always come out in their favor. But the counterbalance to that is that they are useless for the next 6 encounters or whatever in that dungeon. How is this going to be balanced in an arena format? Limit spells per day? Limit offensive spells? All it takes is a Sleep spell + Coup De Grace and its game over at lower levels.
Now if a player wants to compete against a spellcaster or vise versa then it is a matter of who really has the advantage. If the combat starts in close quarters then the spellcaster will surly die, but if the fighter must cross a great distance then he will die. So this comes down to who is the challenger.

I think that it COULD be done but you are going to have to come up with a very strict set of rules to come up with the proper balance. I wish you the best in it and its possible there may even be some attempts to do this in the past for others that DO have those balance considerations that you could use as well.

Also, if you do decide to say do a superhero based one using those systems above I have experience doing those and would be happy to participate. Good luck!
So what your saying is you would be interested in play this type of event only in a diffrent setting? Wait didn't you vote that you wouldn't want to play in this type event? So which is it?

To end this I don't plan on restricting classes, because to me the heart and soul of D&D is sword and sorcery not just sword. Although there are rules in the works to determine starting distance, surprise, and traps. I also want to mention that this is a challenge and acception senario. You mentioned that what if someone came in with a character that is unbeatable and that character would continue to win and gain XP and inturn grow stronger...etc. To this I present this if you know a player has a level 10th character why would you be fool enough to challenge him with a 1st level character. It is much like real boxing, you wouldn't put a college boxer up against a pro. would you? In the same respects would you put a feather weight in the ring with a heavy weight? This is similar to a fighter and a rogue fighting. It is common sense. This is why I became upset. After hearing this if you still feel you would not be interested then maybe you could post your thoughts since now you misunderstandings have been cleared up.

[ghedrain]

I just don't like arena type combat. It's just a personal preference.

I also don't like being "called out". It's rude. Generally if people have an issue with another person they would send a private message. Remember, when you post a poll most people are going to click yes or no, it's too easy. If you want feedback post something asking for feedback sans poll.

Thanks, Have a nice day!

[joshuha]

Then why not wait until you post to vote?


Sorry I wasn't aware I wasn't allowed to do this....


So what your saying is you would be interested in play this type of event only in a diffrent setting? Wait didn't you vote that you wouldn't want to play in this type event? So which is it?

Umm I voted no for this event based off the rules set forth in the post which state D&D and the rules given.


You mentioned that what if someone came in with a character that is unbeatable and that character would continue to win and gain XP and inturn grow stronger...etc.

I did no such thing. I believe you have me confused with Cypher in that regard.

Anyways based off what I knew when the poll was offered I made my vote. I am sorry if you do not agree with my opinion. If you can lay out ALL the ground rules including starting distance rules, traps, etc. then I would definitely consider it. Hell I am willing to work with you to design those if you want.

As a player in this I would of course be min/max'ing to the extreme (with a certain concept of course) and every little rule like that could make a big decision on what I choose. As you say
Well then it wouldn't be very smart for a person to pick that kind of character unless they have an idea that might give them the edge.

[Daeghrefn]

I've played (in a campaign) in an arena. DM had a bunch of NPC's, and we all went up against them. In some cases, it was 1 on 1, and in other cases, it was 3 on 3 (we were a group of 3 + DM at the time).

D&D spellcasting doesn't really lend itself well to an arena setup. The only way it could really work is if it was team based, as 1 on 1 would be too "swingy".

That all being said, it could be a lot of fun. One of the things I like about the arena style of play, is that it's like a battle simulation. It can also familiarize a player with the combat and tactical aspects of their character. Granted, rogues and other skill-based classes will have to use more tactics, but it can still be done. I think a 2 on 2 or 3 on 3 could potentially be a lot of fun. It could teach spellcasters how to counterspell effectively.

I would think it would be fun to playtest in this manner. I think it could be a learning experience. But, I've only used it in the Palladium system, where combat is a lot more defensive. This is certainly not for the type of player who doesn't like hack & slash or other combat intensive campaigns. Most of the players I've ever played with have loved the hack & slash style of game play.

Just my 2 copper.

[LordTomar]

I origionaly was not going to vote for this because of responses that were recieved... But I decided what the hell.

I would not join into a game like this because I enjoy playing a char that has more depth to them, not just one who can bash someone's skull in really well.

Ohh and if you didnt want anyone to vote that they do not want to join this... maybe you should have only put 1 option on the poll.

[zambol]

I kind of like the idea, but have you considered takin it few steps further?

d20 3.5 Team Capture the Flag Competition.

Suggested rules.
As above, plus:
-Each player has team of up to 4 PCs.
-Each team has Homebase with Altar and "Holy Item".
-Team with both "Holy Item"s in their Altar is winner.
-Landscape between homebases is declared by High Wizard/God/...(GM) at the start of combat.
-Landscape can be any "reasonable" size/shape/enviroment but homebase is allways "safe" (as in chars can breath etc.)

Preparations/ruleset modifications needed before campaign start:
-Equipment table for base. (walls, doors, traps....) (and later magic item list for base)
-Charsheet modified for 4 pcs(very simple/pc) and base.
-Few low lever Arena landscapes with maps. (empty field, forest, jungle, river...) Possible higher level landscapes (abyss, elemental planes, null/wild magic zones...)

This kind of campaign/arena takes more work to start running and battles would take longer, but it could be A LOT more interesting and balanced (as per class). And think about all the possibilities with higher level teams

PS. If someone likes to start working up something like this, i would be easily persuaded to contibute few hours of work&team. :P

[Cypher]

I kind of like the idea, but have you considered takin it few steps further?

d20 3.5 Team Capture the Flag Competition.

Suggested rules.
As above, plus:
-Each player has team of up to 4 PCs.
-Each team has Homebase with Altar and "Holy Item".
-Team with both "Holy Item"s in their Altar is winner.
-Landscape between homebases is declared by High Wizard/God/...(GM) at the start of combat.
-Landscape can be any "reasonable" size/shape/enviroment but homebase is allways "safe" (as in chars can breath etc.)

Preparations/ruleset modifications needed before campaign start:
-Equipment table for base. (walls, doors, traps....) (and later magic item list for base)
-Charsheet modified for 4 pcs(very simple/pc) and base.
-Few low lever Arena landscapes with maps. (empty field, forest, jungle, river...) Possible higher level landscapes (abyss, elemental planes, null/wild magic zones...)

This kind of campaign/arena takes more work to start running and battles would take longer, but it could be A LOT more interesting and balanced (as per class). And think about all the possibilities with higher level teams

PS. If someone likes to start working up something like this, i would be easily persuaded to contibute few hours of work&team. :P

I know this is going to sound patronizing, and believe me I really don't mean it too.

I tell you this because maybe you don't realize that what you are describing here is called the D&D Miniatures Game. These rules that you speak of have already been done for you.

https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/minis

[Wraith]

I kind of like the idea, but have you considered takin it few steps further?

d20 3.5 Team Capture the Flag Competition.

Suggested rules.
As above, plus:
-Each player has team of up to 4 PCs.
-Each team has Homebase with Altar and "Holy Item".
-Team with both "Holy Item"s in their Altar is winner.
-Landscape between homebases is declared by High Wizard/God/...(GM) at the start of combat.
-Landscape can be any "reasonable" size/shape/enviroment but homebase is allways "safe" (as in chars can breath etc.)

Preparations/ruleset modifications needed before campaign start:
-Equipment table for base. (walls, doors, traps....) (and later magic item list for base)
-Charsheet modified for 4 pcs(very simple/pc) and base.
-Few low lever Arena landscapes with maps. (empty field, forest, jungle, river...) Possible higher level landscapes (abyss, elemental planes, null/wild magic zones...)

This kind of campaign/arena takes more work to start running and battles would take longer, but it could be A LOT more interesting and balanced (as per class). And think about all the possibilities with higher level teams

PS. If someone likes to start working up something like this, i would be easily persuaded to contibute few hours of work&team. :P
I like your idea here but I was trying for more of a player verses player feel were each player has his own character.(Cypher: D&D minture does support this kind of thing but I don't want to simply the rules so you can control hundred of people I want to use the rules as they are and go more in depth with them.) So this is a good idea for a challenge match where maybe a group of 3 characters wants to take on a higher level character... like say 3 rogues want to take on a fighter. The rogues being the challengers would choose a event that would favor them, ie a trap filled dungeon, or a bunch of ropes suspended over lava. I thank you for your imput and you have spurred meny ideas in my mind.

[zambol]

to Cypher:
Thanks! I didn't know about D&D Miniatures.

With brief glance it has same problem as my suggestion... no ready FG ruleset.

[Ganadai]

to Cypher:
Thanks! I didn't know about D&D Miniatures.

With brief glance it has same problem as my suggestion... no ready FG ruleset.

I think just playing D&D Mini's via FG would be a better idea than arena battles. Why would you need a FG ruleset? The D&D Mini's rules would work easy on FG. You would just have to scan some maps and input the creature stat cards and you're ready to battle.