Considering FG - some quick questions on teminology and seeking advice

[Varatta]

Seeking advice and a few answers - thanks in advance for reading this and helping us out.

I'm seriously considering getting FG and had a few questions I hope people can help me answer - I don't find the actual FG site particularly transparent - which, to me is a problem if they are asking for a $150 investment (yes I know there are cheaper options, and I'm considering all options at this point). My main interest is D&D - so I'll use that as a reference point here.

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Question 1: What do they mean when they say "Rulesets" (example: they list D&D 5e) as coming with Ultimate purchase - is that the full core rule books (DMG, PHB, MM)? Just the basic rules? Is there somewhere I can see exactly what this means? I can't find it so far.

Question 2: What is a "Data Libraries" - they boast these as being included in purchase but I have no idea what that means. I looked it up and found a wiki that was in codespeak that made ZERO sense to me.

Question 3: Has anyone played much overseas and how was hosting? For example I am in Australia and those I want to play with are all the way on the east-coast of North America - nearly as around the world as you can get. On top of that, Australia's internet generally sucks. Has anyone had experience with long distance play like this? How has it gone/what's the load like/does it go smoothly?

Question 4: What advice do you have on purchase structures? What did you wish you knew before you invested? As a player, are you satisfied with Demo or is upgrading for serious players an inevitability? Does this make getting Ultimate mute? Some info below about how we tend to like to play (context for your advice).

To give you a sense of how we tend to like to play: I am traditionally the DM and my team is reuniting after a decade off - we rarely rotated DMs back in the day but maybe they want to now? We all used to enjoy having copies of the rules and would likely do some offline character development between sessions. Story development, character story development & updating, etc.

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Thanks very much for reading and taking the time to advise.

[Zacchaeus]

Hi and welcome to FG.

You might find this post useful as a starting point. https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?32987-What-do-I-need-to-play-5e

A ruleset is the term used to describe the code which allows for a particular game to be played. So 5e, Pathfinder, Savage Worlds, 4e etc are all rulesets. Libraries are additional material which allow you to build and run games in a ruleset. So for 5e the SRD is a library which is basically a cut down version of the three core rulebooks PHB, DMG, MM).

There are many, many Australian players who will no doubt chime in here as soon as the sniff out a fellow Aussie. They seem to manage fine.

How you structure purchases is really up to you and your budget. The choices are Ultimate for the DM and demo for the players or everyone gets a Standard license. There is no particular benefit to a regular group having Standard licences unless you rotate DMs in which case it becomes more of a consideration. If the players want to play around with character creation etc when not connected to you and if they want to have their own copy of the PHB then they will need at least a Standard license. Given what you say above Standard licences all round might be the option for you and your group.

You will find a ton more guidance in the sticky threads at the top of each ruleset forum and also on the Wiki linked at the top of the forum page.

[damned]

A ruleset is the mechanical support for the game. The ruleset knows that armour makes you harder to hit and that fireballs do 6d6 damage of type magic, fire and that a Clerics base stat is Wisdom - or whatever the rules are. A ruleset does not include the actual game content.
Game content is presented in a module and (in the case of D&D) would contain Race info, Class info, Skills, Spells, Equipment etc - everything that is in the physical copy of the PHB - in a format usable by Fantasy Grounds.
There are various DLC types - these include reference books (like PHB, MM and DMG), Adventures (like Curse of Strahd and the Lost Mines of Phandelver) and Map/Token resources (like Devin Knights token sets).

Fantasy Grounds ships with a ruleset for 5e, 4e, 3.5e, Pathfinder, Numenera and FATECore.
It includes D&D 5e SRD, D&D 5e Basic Rules, D&D 3.5e SRD, Pathfinder SRD, FATECore Modules or Reference Material.
Other Reference Material is purchasable (licensed) or not available.
Other Reference Material can be entered in manually as required if you dont purchase it here or if its from other sources.

For what licenses to buy you have two options - outright or subscription and two levels standard and ultimate.
If you might swap GMs or if you want to spread the cost or if you want to make sure the players have some more buy in go the Standard.
If you are always GM then Ultimate is just simpler.
Will players need/get their own licenses? In my groups most have bought an Ultimate and the rest have Standard.
Subscription or Outright is up to you.

For what DLC you might buy - again its up to you - Zacchaeus points you to a good reference for 5e.
I have 5e PHB, MM and LMoP and CoS.
I also have a bunch of Call of Cthulhu, Castles & Crusades, Savage Worlds, Barbarians of Lemuria and WOIN.
But I also run other games like Trail of Cthulhu, Dungeon World and Espionage.
So there is no one answer to what you should or shoudlnt do.
I have collected my DLC over a long period. I see some new GMs go all in and Complete the D&D Bundle right off the bat. Many things will influence your decision.

Personally - this is the best virtual table top bar none.

[damned]

Oh - I regularly have UK and US players in my game and they have no issues.
Its not an FPS where ms of lag mean game over.
Im currently on cable but have run on crappy ADSL services for a long time too.

[dulux-oz]

Yes, the 'Net down here in Oz sux big time, but one of the groups I GM for has two players in Brisbane (I'm in country NSW), another in Thailand, another on the east(-ish) coast of the USA, and another in the central USA - and we run AOK with both FG and Teamspeak (for voice comms). The only issue we have is when I try to load up a map that is way to big (keep 'em below about 1MB if you can) - but how we get around that is I get everyone to log in about 10 minutes early and the map is usially downloaded and ready to go by then - I think its happened twice since we started about 6 months ago (we play every 2nd week).

This article here (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/wiki/index.php/Development_Overview) might help shed some light on the terminology of FG.

Also, if you haven't done so already, let me encourage you to take a look at some of the great Tutorial Videos available on the Fantasy Grounds Wiki (and on YouTube). Damn's are good, as are Xorn's, and people seem to like mine as well (mine are also available from the links in my sig, below).

Start with the ones on the CoreRPG, because the CoreRPG forms the foundation of just about all the RPGs we play with Fantasy Grounds - so by learning how to use FG with the CoreRPG you'll learn about 80% of what you'll need to know to play any RPG with Fantasy Grounds. Once you've gone through the CoreRPG Videos you can then go on to Videos about your chosen RPG.

When you get familiar with the basic Fantasy Grounds product the next step is to check out some of the Extensions (Plug-Ins) for FG, such as the DOE: Sound, DOE: Locations, DOE: Weather and DOE: Organisations Extensions (to name a but a few - and a Shameless™ Self Plug).

And keep on asking questions - we're a pretty friendly lot here, and we love answering questions.

Cheers

[Zacchaeus]

Told you they’d be here.

[Nylanfs]

They are like drop bears, always dropping in unexpectedly. :)

[LordEntrails]

To add some personal experience. I went through many of the same questions when I was looking for a VTT (my profile when say when I started, I think it was May 2015?). I looked at all the competitors and chose FG. Here are the major considerations for me:
- Support & Community, the community here is exceptional (and I mean that literally, and not in a self-congratulatory manner). Support on the forums here is quick, accurate, and helpful. And when you go to SmiteWorks ([email protected]), they provide great support too. The helpful, friendly, accepting, and nearly drama-less community that was here before me and carries on today is a huge strength, imo. (This also proved to be a big indicator of those VTTs that no longer exist.)
- Content, at the time it was the only place for official 5E content in digital format. It is still the only VTT that has all of it (Roll20 only has a portion of the products available). Plus, FG prices are now comparable to D&D Beyond (which is not a VTT) and much less than the MSRP available on Roll20.
- All my research before hand indicated that GM prep time with FG is much less than that of the other VTT's. From what I have since heard many times from others here and elsewhere that have or do use other VTT's, this is still an accurate statement.

I will also add, since joining the FG community, one of the other things I have been impressed with is the SmiteWorks owners and employees. They are perhaps one of the most customer focused companies I've worked with or been a customer of. Though by no means do I agree with every decision they make, I'm also aware that I do not have the information (nor should I) that they have to make their decisions with. And, even when I disagree, I'm perfectly confident that they are making the best decision they can for the long-term benefits of the FG community.

I've never regretted my decision to invest in FG. And I never wonder if I should buy another FG product. I know if I don't like it I can return it (within 30 days), though I've never even considered wanting to return anything, but more importantly that it's a quality product and any issues will be quickly resolved.

In short, you can be confident that you will be treated fairly and honestly.

[Varatta]

Thanks to everyone for the advice it is much appreciated and great to see such a positive and helpful community!

[Varatta]

Thank you Zacchaeus, funny enough, I just finished watching a bunch of your vids before seeing your reply! Was curious about Race/Class customization/creation and found your vids on the topics - clearly you are a legend! =D

Thanks for chiming in, very helpful.

[Varatta]

Dulux-Oz, your Development Overview article was REALLY helpful, thanks man!

[dulux-oz]

Dulux-Oz, your Development Overview article was REALLY helpful, thanks man!

You're welcome - glad it helped.

[Maasq]

Hey there.

I spent about 6 months on a monthly subscription, then (as I wasn't DMing at the time) switched to a standard license. I'll trade up when I get around to DMing - I only need to pay the difference. There are regular sales too, so if you go the same route as me you can get Standard at sale price, then get the Upgrade when it goes on sale too. My advice would be going for the sub for a month or two to see if you feel comfortable with the software and the community. That way you don't feel too burned if you then decide not to keep playing.

It is perfectly possible to run a game with the SRD content btw - again, saving on initial outlay if you want to test things. The starter set - Lost Mines of Phandelver (or some such spelling!) - is relatively cheap too, so your initial outlay as a group could be 1 month ultimate license and LMoP. Thereafter, people can add standard licenses and Players Handbooks as needed, and you can go DM-crazy on books (and you KNOW you will!)

Good luck!

Maasq

[JohnD]

There are also systems where the DLC is a lot cheaper than 5e. Savage Worlds or Castles and Crusades for an example.

[Varatta]

Maasq, great advice, thank you!

[shod]

HI

I run a DND 5e game from Sydney every Sunday.

5 players. 3 in USA, 1 in Denmark and 1 in aus. FG runs fine. Can be sometimes slow to upload images, so i be careful of the size.

Upload speed here with OPTUS crappy like 2-5mb..

Welcome to join with free version, to observe as i have ultimate,, if you want to see a live game running,



Sydney Sunday 4pm-7pm.

Game web site.. at.. (this is using my auto FG web site generator)

https://gamefungus.mooo.com:8083/campaign?campaign=Jarlesberg Journeys

Rgds
Shod,

[Bidmaron]

Hey, Shod, thanks for posting! Welcome to the boards. I presume those times are Syndey's time zone?

[Varatta]

Hey Shod, thanks for chiming in. I may just get in touch to join you if you don't mind when I get a free Sunday. =)

[Varatta]

Hey All, One last question:

First, thanks for all the input. I've decided to sub standard for now and see how I like it. I also got the PHB module.

Onto the questions - and this one I feel like I should understand but I really don't still. What is the difference between what the SRD Data gives you and what the PHB module gives you?

Also, I can't seem to just 'leaf through' the PHB anywhere - is that a thing? Shouldn't I be able to go browsing?

Much thanks:

Also, is the SRD Data what's included in the sub or did it come when I bought the PHB? If the former, what is the point of buying the PHB anyway?

Thanks again for your help and patience.

[damned]

The SRD is a free resource put out by the Wizards as a low cost (free) entry to the game.*
It includes some details on all the classes - totally enough to play but not all the class options.
Same with Monsters.

The SRD comes with your subscription at no extra cost.
As does the Basic Rules - another free resource.

Many people do play with just the SRD but the PHB is the best selling DLC ever on FG for good reason :)

In library click on the PHB and then Reference Manual for a book style version.

* The SRD is also part of or tied to the OGL and allows 3rd parties to make their own products for D&D using the OGL without having to negotiate their own license to do so.

[damned]

Oh - also - dont make it your last question.
Lots of people (some orcs, elves and kender here too - but no trolls) here happy to help.

[LordEntrails]

Keep in mind, the SRD is actually not designed to be complete enough to play (but, for those of use who have played D&D before, we can fill in the gaps well enough). The SRD is designed to have enough information for third parties to create content that works with D&D (i.e adventures, classes, etc).

The Basic Rules, are actually very similar to the SRD, but they are designed to be able to have enough to play, but not all the options.

I think Mr. Z's post titled something like "What you need to play 5e" has the specifics, but here are some of the differences;
SRD & Basic Rules each have one sub-class for each class and has the core races with one sub-race each. These also only have some of the spells, equipment (?) and feats (or maybe no feats?).

The PHB has all the core classes and their core sub-classes and the same with races. It has all the core spells, equipment and feats. It also has portraits.

In short, you can get by without the PHB in FG, but you wont have all the things that are in the PHB.

[Varatta]

Thank you Damned! That was a really great clarification. Much, much appreciated! Thanks also LordEntrails - I did see Z's post but I think you need to hear these things a few ways to 'get it' sometimes. Wish the site was more transparent. Anyway, I think I'm pretty clear now.

So it sounds to me like:
- The Basic rules is like the "D&D sampler" - enough to get your feet wet,
- The SRD Data is like "D&D Lite" - all the flavour, half the calories (details/options),
and finally,
- The Purchasable Modules (like PHB) is "D&D The Real Deal".

At least that's what I'm seeing when I try building a character with different modules loaded and unloaded.

PS: I wonder if a 'what's in and what's out' comparison/guide for the Basic Rules, Data, and Purchasable Books would be a useful resource? Maybe there is one out there already?

[Nylanfs]

Think of the 5e SRD as a style guide for 3rd party publishers. Unlike the 3e & 35e SRD which had like 98% of the core books except for a few monsters.

[LordEntrails]

PS: I wonder if a 'what's in and what's out' comparison/guide for the Basic Rules, Data, and Purchasable Books would be a useful resource? Maybe there is one out there already?
I Googled it once and remember finding a thread or two on Reddit that had a pretty good summary. I also think I may have found someone's blog that listed the differences. But it certainly wouldn't hurt for someone here to put together a summary.

[JohnD]

There is a website for the 5e SRD I believe. The PHB is the PHB. Comparing the two should do it.

[Myrdin Potter]

If you have more time than money, the SRD is fine. You can enter the missing information manually as needed and once entered once you can save as a module and reuse over and over in other campaigns. Plenty of token making tools and images out there on the internet. Plus, most adventures include everything you need to play that adventure inside the adventure. With even a small amount of money, you can save yourself a lot of time and get the main books in reference manual format (easier to read) as well. The PHB goes on sale regularly, you may just need to wait 6 weeks or so for it to rotate through.

[Zacchaeus]

I Googled it once and remember finding a thread or two on Reddit that had a pretty good summary. I also think I may have found someone's blog that listed the differences. But it certainly wouldn't hurt for someone here to put together a summary.

The post that you quoted (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?32987-What-do-I-need-to-play-5e) contains details of what's missing from the SRD.

[LordEntrails]

I think the idea is for a summary table or such. Let me put something together...

[LordEntrails]

An (incomplete) summary table looks something like this;
22489

[Varatta]

An (incomplete) summary table looks something like this;
22489

That's awesome! Thank you. Fascinating those numbers! It's so random that the SRD would have more races but fewer subraces than the Basic Rules.

[LordEntrails]

That's awesome! Thank you. Fascinating those numbers! It's so random that the SRD would have more races but fewer subraces than the Basic Rules.
Well, remember, the SRD is designed for creating third party content while the basic rules are to learn the system. Plus, they do have to consider what they released in the 3E SRD. (I suspect they felt they had to include all the races they released previously, but I've not compared to the 3E SRD.)

So the SRD only needs to give a few examples on how to create a sub-race, so that people can create other sub-races. Same reason their is only a single background. Just enough to know how to create more of them. Not sure why they released so many spells with the SRD, maybe because of the 3E SRD.

[damned]

Well, remember, the SRD is designed for creating third party content while the basic rules are to learn the system. Plus, they do have to consider what they released in the 3E SRD. (I suspect they felt they had to include all the races they released previously, but I've not compared to the 3E SRD.)

So the SRD only needs to give a few examples on how to create a sub-race, so that people can create other sub-races. Same reason their is only a single background. Just enough to know how to create more of them. Not sure why they released so many spells with the SRD, maybe because of the 3E SRD.

You cant copyright a Magic Missile, a Fireball, Invisibility, Cure Light Wounds etc
So you may as well just include them.

[Myrdin Potter]

They have left spells out of the SRD with pretty common names. Until they did an update, they left out Eldritch Blast. The ones named after characters they have some extra copyright protection. Maybe.

Their first rule for the 5e SRD was to include everything that was in the 3e one. So most spells were included.

[Nylanfs]

No those have been added especially Eldrich blast since it's kinda core to an included class.