Applying spell effects

[TimeForAPint]

I notice that if I cast a damage spell, like Fireball, FG knows if the save was made and halves damage (or not) appropriately. But for spells like Fear, the effect is not applied when a save is failed; as far as I can tell the player needs to manually apply the fear effect.

Am I missing something, or is this just the way it is?

[Zacchaeus]

It doesn't do it automatically you have to apply the effect.

[TimeForAPint]

Any idea as to why that is? The code obviously tracks saves, and it seems like it would be easy to do... I wonder why it doesn't do that.

[Zacchaeus]

Because it doesn't know that you have cast a fear spell and that a failure on the save should apply the condition. All that FG knows is that you have forced a save from the target; it doesn't know why. For attack spells like Fireball where there is a damage follow up there is obviously code to apply the half damage on a success.

[Moon Wizard]

Also, FG does not chain actions by design. There are often many exceptions and reaction abilities that affect gameplay. So, often rolls/results are adjusted during play so that follow-on effects don't happen. Also, this takes away from the ability for the players and GM to apply actions and roll themselves.

Regards,
JPG

[TimeForAPint]

Thanks for the feedback!

It's an interesting design decision not to track the spell causing the save. Seems to me that if you automate something like concentration, which automatically rolls saves and removes any appropriate effects from both the caster and the target, and track a failed save so as to apply half damage for something like Fireball, it follows to apply an effect for a failed save for something like Fear. Worst case, some reaction causes the DM to remove the fear effect manually. But at the point where the save is failed it will much more often be applied than not.

As personal preference, I don't like the whole invoking a save automatically. That's one of those things where it feels like a player should take an action, you know? "Roll a wisdom save" as opposed to casting a spell automatically rolling the save and the player just looks at the combat log to see "what they rolled". IMO, it would be nice for spells to, say, put a status on a character of 'needs save' or something like that. Then that character makes a save, and if failed then the appropriate effect(s) is applied automatically. That way we actively make a save, and automagically apply effects.

btw - no complaints here, just some ideas. I appreciate the conversation.

[Trenloe]

...and track a failed save so as to apply half damage for something like Fireball, it follows to apply an effect for a failed save for something like Fear.
Your fireball example is still a two-step process - roll the saves, then roll the damage - the damage is not auto applied.

The same happens for Fear - the saves are made and those that made the save are removed from the targeting, then apply the fear effect to the remaining targets. It's the single click of a button to apply this effect to the remaining targets. Just like it is to apply damage from a fireball.

The flexibility to add or remove targets after the save and before applying the effect is preferred by most users, so they can adjust as necessary ("Oh, sorry - I forgot I have +2 vs Fear - I'd have made my save"). In the example of fear it would be pretty easy to add or remove a condition applied incorrectly. But if there is incorrect damage and other chained effects then it can become a nightmare to remove correctly - much better to make sure you have the correct targets before applying the effect/condition/damage/etc. - this is why actions are two steps.

[TimeForAPint]

... the saves are made and those that made the save are removed from the targeting, then apply the fear effect to the remaining targets.

AH! I didn't realize this happened. That's the piece that was missing for me; now it makes a lot more sense!

I really love this community, and I love this software so much. It really is very well done, imo. Let me know if you need a developer! ;)