New GM want to know what to buy

[DespicableV]

Hey i have been looking for a VVT and found this and have desidet to try it out, i want to play "Out Of the Abyss" whit my friends and are planing to buy the Ultimet lices so they can just join me and dont have to buy the game.
My question is, sould i buy anything else then the "Out of the Abyss" ekspansion or sould i buy more then that, like the player hand book etc.?

[LordEntrails]

Welcome to FG and the forums.

When you buy the standard or ultimate license you will get the 5E SRD and 5E Basic Rules included (free). If you then purchase OotA, you will have everything you need to create basic characters and play the adventure.

This thread will give you a bunch more details. After reading that, let us know what other questions you might have.
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?32987-What-do-I-need-to-play-5e

[Full Bleed]

Hey i have been looking for a VVT and found this and have desidet to try it out, i want to play "Out Of the Abyss" whit my friends and are planing to buy the Ultimet lices so they can just join me and dont have to buy the game.
My question is, sould i buy anything else then the "Out of the Abyss" ekspansion or sould i buy more then that, like the player hand book etc.?
Truth is you're getting a gimped version of 5e (the SRD) if you don't buy the "Complete Core Class Pack" (which is the FG version of The Player's Handbook.)

[JohnD]

Gimped by WotC not Smiteworks just to further clarify.

[damned]

I dont think anyone is being gimped. The SRD is bonus data. The Basic Rules are bonus data. Both are distributed freely by the Wizards and FG have done a good conversion and bundled it in (with permission) to all licenses.
If your players are happy to play the 4 core classes then you need Ultimate+OotA but if they want more options then add the Complete Core Classes (PHB). But as Zacchaeus says - follow that other thread.

[Full Bleed]

I dont think anyone is being gimped.
The 5e SRD is a FREE, gimped version of 5e. As such, Smiteworks is allowed to include it for FREE. But lets be honest about it--only the most casual of 5e players would actually want to play with only the 5e SRD.

And here we have someone buying an Ultimate License and a long term Adventure path who wants to know whether or not they "should buy anything else." I think a $175 initial investment indicates someone taking a less than casual approach to using this software and playing 5e.

So the simplest answer is, "Yes." They should buy the "Complete Core Class Pack" to get the entire 5e game. Otherwise they will be playing with a gimped, crippled, partial, or incomplete (choose you own adjective) version of 5e.

No reason for anyone to get defensive about it.

[Bidmaron]

Full Bleed, he got defensive because WotC set the parameters of the SRD, not SW. Saying it is 'gimped' (or any adjective) is not fair to SW.


So the simplest answer is, "Yes." They should buy the "Complete Core Class Pack" to get the entire 5e game.
I you only buy the "complete core class pack" you are still not playing the 'entire 5e game' because you must also buy all the other expansions that expanded the 5e game. So with only the complete core, by your definition, you are still 'gimped'.

And, people can always put in manually the stuff they want that isn't in the SRD.

[damned]

Im not being defensive.
Im really impressed with how much free content the wizards did give away for 5e.
And using the Basic rules and thus staying with the basic classes/races you can play a full length campaign and IMO not be bored.
Most parties have at least 2 or 3 of those four classes.

I do own the PHB, MM and a couple of 5e adventures.
Im not sure Ive used the MM in FG yet.
Physically I have PHB, MM and DMG and a couple of Adventures and Ive never read a page of the DMG.
I have checked out the artwork in the MM though.

I totally recommend the PHB and an Adventure as the best value 5e purchases but I stand by my comment that the Basic rules and SRD is not gimping anyone.

[Full Bleed]

Full Bleed, he got defensive because WotC set the parameters of the SRD, not SW. Saying it is 'gimped' (or any adjective) is not fair to SW.
Sure it is. It's gimped. Who did it isn't of much concern to a buyer. What they're getting is. I don't care who wants to chime and and blame WotC for it. That's not the "defensiveness" I was referring to. It's the message I quoted where the assertion was being spun that the 5e SRD wasn't gimped because there was some perceived slight to Smiteworks.


I you only buy the "complete core class pack" you are still not playing the 'entire 5e game' because you must also buy all the other expansions that expanded the 5e game. So with only the complete core, by your definition, you are still 'gimped'.
That's not "by my definition." You're being disingenuous. Or you haven't used FG's 5e content.


And, people can always put in manually the stuff they want that isn't in the SRD.
Sure, but that's a whole other can-o-worms that requires a whole lotta hoop-jumping for a new user. Or you can do what too many people around here do and say, "You don't *need* anything else (*wink* *wink*), you get the 5e SRD for free." This is a new FG user who just bought the Ultimate License and Out of the Abyss and wants to play 5e. A new user who specifically asked about whether they should buy the "Player's Handbook."

The OP was looking for a suggestion for what he should buy. I skipped the misdirection with regard to the SRD because, frankly, it doesn't serve Smiteworks to have a user drop $175 on their product thinking that they're getting 5e only to learn that they're getting a gimped version of the game if they rely on the "free" SRD.

[Bidmaron]

Full Bleed, we try to be civil around here -- just a reminder.

You raise good points, but nothing said above was not factual, and it was unemotional until your next to last post. That thread he referenced contained all the facts relevant to a purchasing decision. No one masked the fact that you are only going to get full support of a few classes with the free content provided with a license.

My point you took issue with is a statement-of-fact that the 'entire 5e game' is much bigger than the PHB. Those were your words I quoted, not mine.

However, I am in full agreement with your premise that a guy making entry should generally buy the basic rules content in the cases where the publisher has been stingy with their SRD. (and even in cases where they haven't like PF, subject to their budget).

However again, it is important I think that new users understand this is not SW doing that. Sticker shock of an ultimate entry (especially when Steam and other games have come to define ultimate as everything available for the game platform) is a real problem here, and I think that is why folks try to explain why they aren't getting 'core' materials with their ultimate purchase (or any other license).

I would encourage you to weigh in with your view, but you didn't offer anything that wasn't in that thread referenced. It explained in detail what is and isn't in the SRD. And you made your post in a confrontational fashion to those already posting.

[Ken L]

If you're new to scene, check out other VTTs, some free to play. 175 bucks is a commitment for when you're sure you want more tools to run your game. If you're just running something lite, one of the free VTTs could be all you need.

Usually when you need more ruleset support, FG has the bells and whistles.

[not_so_there]

I'd say what you need depends on your use case.

If you are just wanting to use it in person as DM then I feel you can get away with just the adventure and the standard.

If you're wanting your players to login remote and use their characters in the VTT it will take more custom setup and outside reference without the class pack.

As a new dm as of this year I'd recommend it over other VTTs simply for the time I save using it to setup games. Yes, The interface is old and not intuitive at times but my users stopped caring when I'm able to randomize monster health when loading encounters and auto roll initiative every round with the combat tracker. I feel those things add a great dynamic but would be very hard to implement without these tools.

[Full Bleed]

Full Bleed, we try to be civil around here -- just a reminder.
We all have different thresholds for what is considered "civil."

For example, I think the running idea that because people get the 5e SRD in FG "for free", without clearly acknowledging how gimped the 5e SRD is, isn't civil. I find it downright misleading. The 5e SRD is a WOTC marketing ploy--Provide a gimped/preview/partial 5e experience to hook users for a greater investment that they'll *need* to make to enjoy the core game. That Smiteworks provides it for free is cool. That some then present it as something more than it is, isn't. And not highlighting that to the (clearly) uninformed, particularly to people who, say, are already spending a lot at the door (nearly $200 in this case) to specifically play 5e isn't very nice. And I feel the continuous reinforcement of the misconception (that players are actually getting the the full 5e experience for nothing), does not serve FG or it's users. They shouldn't drop $150 on FG and *then* learn that they can't make a Drow Wild Mage. A race and class that is present in the core 5e Player's Handbook (the foundation of the 5e game for most players.)

And just because someone doesn't agree with you and mounts a strong counter argument doesn't mean they're stepping outside the bounds of civility. In fact, questioning someone's civility on those grounds is pretty rich. There is no moral high ground to be had in obfuscating the fact that the 5e SRD is a *gimped* version of 5e.

This user had a simple question and I provided a simple answer. The answer I'd give a close friend if they asked the same question.

[Andraax]

The word "gimped" is insulting and disparaging. There is enough in the SRD to play, especially if the purchaser is also going to buy adventure modules - what a module needs that is outside the SRD will be included with the module.

[Trenloe]

And I think that a lot of people miss the main reason for the SRD - to release some of the 5E rules under an Open Gaming License (OGL) to allow third party publishers (3PPs) to legally publish material for 5E. If people aren't familiar with the original OGL for d20 (D&D 3.x), it was a ground breaking license that allowed people to make their own versions of "the worlds oldest role-playing game". I doubt the OSR (Old School Revival) would have occurred, Pathfinder most definitely wouldn't have happened, and all of the amazing material released by 3PPs such as AAW Games, Legendary Games, Kobold Press, Frog God Games, etc. wouldn't have happened either. In fact, the RPG industry would probably not be in the healthy state it is now without the original OGL. And, yes, this was released by WotC - not as a marketing ploy, not as a gimped version of D&D - but to allow everyone to write and publish material based on the d20 system.

The D&D 5E OGL/SRD is the same - it allows all of those fantastic 3PPs out there (some mainstream, some just starting up) to legally produce material for D&D 5E. There are currently over 130 3PP D&D 5E products in the FG store: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/store/?sys=17&pub=-1&typ=-1&search=&sort=1 Virtually all of these would not be possible without the original d20 or 5E OGL/SRD. You don't *need* to buy any other 5E products to use these - it's up to you if you want to purchase the PHB, DMG, MM etc. - but you don't *need* them. It's great that SmiteWorks provide the 5E SRD data as part of the standard FG license. Is the SRD data the same as the PHB - no. But, is the SRD useless/broken (the usual definition associated with "gimped") or is it purely a marketing tool - no, not at all!

This conversation comes up again and again. No one is forcing you to purchase additional D&D content - you don't *need* it unless you want a specific class/ability/scenario/whatever. This is standard practice in virtually every RPG publisher out there - you don't get "everything you need" (despite the product description usually containing those exact words) in one product - the publisher will keep producing more and more and more stuff. You don't need all of that other stuff, it doesn't stop you playing. Buy what you want, or not - use the free stuff that comes with FG.

[Bonkon]

Our DM has not purchased the PHB or DMG (I am not sure about the MM) and has his own world he has built and we all thoroughly enjoy ourselves with the SRD. I personally have purchased more for when I do DM, but that was a personal and financial choice I made. So the SRD gives plenty of info to play and enjoy the game for a minimal investment into FG.