D&D 3.0 vs 3.5

[DarkStar]

This will be a question of Dungeons & Dragons newbie. There is no Polish translation of D&D 3.5 yet, I bought 3.0 edition in 2004, at that time I didn't even know something like 3.5 rulebooks existed. Now, I have just finished reading the core rulebooks a while ago (yeah, it took me a long time, because I had many breaks and even read PHB two times) and I'm still totally green. ;) I know that 3.5 edition changed some monster statistics (they're supposed to be stronger now?), added a few new (sub)chapters to the books (like a handy description of planes in DMG, which was not there in 3.0 :(), some table fixes and so on.
I also know that Wizards published an upgrade booklet on their website (which I have downloaded), which is supposed to summarize the changes?

Would you recommend me going straight for 3.5 ruleset, or staying with 3.0 until I get to know the game well? Are there any major changes, like different rules for fighting or something like that? If the changes are basically some statistics and tables, then it's easy to handle. I might just buy the Complete SRD and be fine that way. What do you think?

[SurlyDwarf]

Well my opinion, with financial considerations notwithstanding, would be to obtain the 3.5 stuff. It is more difficult to un-learn that it is to learn and of all the things we waste, time is the one that none of us can afford to. Just my humblest of opinions, though.

[Dragonlord]

I definitely agree with SurlyDwarf. If you are going to start, you might as well start with the "latest and greatest" information.

3.5 edition also compiled some rules changes that were based on player feedback to 3rd edition and some ammendments from various supplements that were released after 3rd edition.

I think it's worth the money to get the books, if you can afford them. However, your SRD idea has merit as well.

Check out this link:

https://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/home.html

It might save you some money while you decide, though I do of course advocate purchasing the 3.5 edition books.

[DarkStar]

Time is the factor here, if I start reading 3.5 from scratch we will never start playing. ;P Are the changes that major so I need to read the books once again? Is the update booklet not sufficient?

[Jozan]

I would go ahead and play with what I knew of the 3.0 system, I myself don't beleive the changes are big enough to affect your game right off. The conversion booklet would help to change the major issues if they were to come up and the SRD would be useful as well.

My opinion would be to play with 3.0 until everyone got the chance to familiarize themselves with 3.5

[Griogre]

The changes are prevasive but mostly small except maybe a few of the class ajustments. As an example, there are many changes to the spells, mostly tweeks but some spells changed levels. Change booklet only hits a few high points.

If you can I would suggest you get the 3.5 rules. The spirit of the rules did not change, but many of the class, feat, skill and spell details did - lots and lots of little changes. Like Jozan, said though, I would just start playing. When ever you first start playing, you are going to be confused sometimes and make mistakes, however the point of playing a game is to have fun - not be a rules expert.

[joeru]

The changes are prevasive but mostly small except maybe a few of the class ajustments. As an example, there are many changes to the spells, mostly tweeks but some spells changed levels. Change booklet only hits a few high points.

If you can I would suggest you get the 3.5 rules. The spirit of the rules did not change, but many of the class, feat, skill and spell details did - lots and lots of little changes. Like Jozan, said though, I would just start playing. When ever you first start playing, you are going to be confused sometimes and make mistakes, however the point of playing a game is to have fun - not be a rules expert.

Unless my memory is totally giving up on me, the changes made to almost all (or at least wizard/sorcerer) spell durations between 3.0 and 3.5 were rather ... radical.

[Griogre]

Changes to some spells were quite radical. However the original poster also mentioned he had the 3.0 to 3.5 conversion guide which dedicates like 3 of it's 8 pages to explaining what spells changed names, levels, classes etc. It is quite true that it doesn't mention things like duration changes, though.

I don't believe this changes my suggestion to the original poster to just start playing. However, I think it is clear the sooner the OP starts using the 3.5 rules the less of the 3.0 rules he is going to have to "unlearn". And there is a lot to "unlearn". Far more than the Conversion Guide implies.

[DarkStar]

I have access to 3.5 rulebooks, I just don't want to read them anew, what I'd like to do is to keep both 3.0 and 3.5 books by my side and reference the update booklet from WotC, but I'm not sure if it's possible.

[Jozan]

If you have the books just play with what you know, but maybe use the spell and feat descriptions and the updated class and racial features from the 3.5 this way you only have to re-read a few chapters rather than the whole PHB before your game. Then if something comes up that needs clarification take a few minutes to look it up, if it isn't a big deal you could just guess what the rule is and go from there. I agree with Griogre's post, don't stress out about the rules difference just play and have fun.

Does your group have "house rules"? These are rule modifications you make based on what your group thinks would make the rules more fun for them, while not totally disregarding the rule completely.

[DarkStar]

Does your group have "house rules"? These are rule modifications you make based on what your group thinks would make the rules more fun for them, while not totally disregarding the rule completely.

Not yet, we didn't start playing yet nor discussed any rules so far. Although, I'd like to incorporate death and dying mod from Unearthed Arcana, just read that and seems more realistic than what we have in the core books. I mean, the death is less predictable, there's no more -10 HP border and percentage checks to see if the character becomes stable, instead everything is based on Fortitude save checks, like in real life, I'd like to say. :) But I bet you already know those variant rules. Does anyone use that particular one?

[Griogre]

I have access to 3.5 rulebooks, I just don't want to read them anew, what I'd like to do is to keep both 3.0 and 3.5 books by my side and reference the update booklet from WotC, but I'm not sure if it's possible.
What I would suggest is keep the 3.5 book by your side and the conversion guide. As Jozan mentioned just read the class chapter, and if it was me I just read it for the player's classes involved in the game. You can read the others later. If you don't have the 3.0 book memorized you might not noticed alot of the changes. I would read the combat chapter also, and then at first just look up the spells in the 3.5 book as they are cast.

I think you'll get up to speed very rapidly.

I use the -10 death standard rule. My logic is simple. The characters the -10 rule benefits are low level characters. The fort save benefits high level characters who can probably get themselfs raised anyhow. IMHO there is no point in hurting the low level characters who need it or helping the high level characters who don't need help. You will find the 10 hp buffer is fairly meaningless to high level characters, because the monsters they are fighting do so much damage that it will be rare they end up between 0 and -9. The optional rule is a classic trade off between "realism" and simplicity and treating all characters the same or benefiting higher level characters.

There is no right answer really, just which one adds more to the enjoyment of your group. I choose the standard rules because I don't want the added complexity and I feel low level characters need all the help they can get. By the way, when I started playing, characters died at 0 hp and first level characters did not start with max hps, so it was very clear who was helped by the -10 rule (fighters also only had d8s for hit points too).

[Jozan]

I have very little of the rules in the PHB memorized. What I usually do is print out all the info I need as it relates to whatever type of character I am playing.
For example, I have been playing a cleric so I have printed out the descriptions of all the spells that I have memorized so I don't have to look in the book if I need to look over it. I also print out all the feat descriptions and some skills. This will enable you to have all the information you need all in one place, just find the right sheet for whatever you need.

[taliesinangelus]

There was one other major change between 3.0 and 3.5 that bears mentioning... Damage Reduction works quite a bit differently. Weapon alignment and weapon material are used as the basis for damage reduction, not merely enhancement bonus. This is a throwback to older rules and could make some things a bit confusing for players and DMs.

[DarkStar]

I don't want to start a new thread, so let me ask my question here. I have a scenario for D&D 3.0 edition and I want to run it using 3.5 rules. There are a few NPCs with stats, equipment and all that. Is there an easy way to convert them to the new rules, or do I have to take each one and make the adjustments manually all by myself? There are wizards as well, I feel like I'll have to do it myself, spells changed levels and effects... But what about typical warriors and such?

[Griogre]

There is no real easy way to convert characters between 3.0 and 3.5. Fighters were the one class that basically had no changes between the editions (because they are feat based and the feats changed).

You have two choices - Ignore the changes, except use the 3.5 spell descriptions and feats or convert them.

1) If these are not recurring villians then most parties are not able to tell the difference between a 3.0 character and 3.5 because the NPC's will be dead in 5 rounds or less so it is a waste of time to convert them. The exception might be the BBEG (arch villian).

2) Or you could convert them. If they are high level this can be time consuming. As an another option, you could just use one of the 3.5 random NPC generators and just replace the NPC's with newly generated ones. Outfit the "new" NPCs with the module characters equipment (the one thing most random generators do poorly).

[DarkStar]

2) Or you could convert them. If they are high level this can be time consuming. As an another option, you could just use one of the 3.5 random NPC generators and just replace the NPC's with newly generated ones. Outfit the "new" NPCs with the module characters equipment (the one thing most random generators do poorly).

Are there any free NPC generators for 3.5? I know there's e-Tools, but it's commercial.

[Griogre]

Are there any free NPC generators for 3.5? I know there's e-Tools, but it's commercial.

I don't really consider e-Tools, which I own, to be an NPC generator. By virtue of their licence with WoTC they have the NPC's in the DMG. E-Tools is really a character builder. I could never recommend it as a NPC generator. Should you want a commericial program I would recomend NPC Designer, which I also own - it is a true NPC generator with all the bells and whistles. It also exports NPCs to FG xml format. If you got the money, the $15 is well worth it. You'll make it back in time savings after just one high level NPC.

For a free online generator I like Jamis Bruck's at:
https://www.aarg.net/~minam/npc2.cgi

You can also get a downloadable version here:
https://www.andargor.com/

A good resource for online tools is ENWorld. You do have to join but it really is *the* fan d20 site. A direct link to the online tools is:
https://www.enworld.org/index.php?page=toolbox

[DarkStar]

Thanks for the links. I'm playing with PCGen today, it's superb! As a character builder it's a lot better than eTools, besides one thing - eTools can use copyrighted material from Wizards, because CMP has the licences, whilst PCGen uses only SRD material and as such lacks spells from Magic of Faerun, etc. Yes, I can add them myself, but it's a hassel.

And when I try to run a random encounter I not necessarily want to create every single goblin, which will be cut in the first few seconds. ;) That's why I asked for a generator.

The funny thing is, that after the first look (ugly, slow Java :/) at PCGen I found it's actually... more comfortable to work with than eTools. I felt like creating a character in NwN or other cRPG, if it only had all the rules...

[Griogre]

I've used PCGen. I've always felt I could generate a 1st level character faster by hand. I use to have both e-Tools and PCGen. In my mind e-Tools and PC Gen have swapped back and worth on which one is "better" several times. I'm the opposite of you, I find e-Tools is faster and easier to use than PCGen now.

PCGen on the other hand can do *anything*, but to me, is more of a pain to use. Got some wierd half whatever, strange thing? PCGen can make it - at least if if you have the time. I think PCGen is the best free character generator, but it is not an easy or fast program to use.

Honestly, I've no longer willing to type in the stuff - *shrug* call me lazy ;) I pretty much use e-Tools as my character generator of choice these days and am very happy to buy the data sets from Code Monkey. When I decided to start buying the data sets, I didn't want to get both e-Tools and PCGen ones so I choose to go with e-Tools. Some of my friends went the other way with PCGen.