C&C Errors and Content Inadequacies

[JohnD]

As suggested by Trenloe.

Crusader's Companion (acknowledged to be community content - seemingly unlikely to be resolved):
* Currently any links in the CC that should pop-up with information in them (i.e. class abilities on the additional character class options), instead pop-up blank.
* Also happens to races and their linked abilities in the CC.

Castle Keeper's Guide:
* Same thing as the Crusader's Companion above is also happening to the Secondary Skills in the CKG.
* Same thing happening in the CKG Chapter 1: Expanding Characters - all the links are blank (i.e. look under the Barbarian and the abilities supposedly linked there).

The Outpost:
* Treasure parcels 3.02 and 4.03 throw when accessed from their Library entry:
"Runtime Error: desktop: Unable to create window with invalid class (treasureparcels : treasureparcels.id-00002@The Outpost)"

Enhanced Classes:
* The links in Expanding Classes, which is the most recent C&C release, are also blank as per Crusader's Companion and Castle Keeper's Guide examples above.

Hope this meets the needs to do the needful.

[JohnD]

Module A7:
* No NPCs are assigned even generic letter tokens.
* The one link in Encounters is completely blank.
* Under Tables, rolling for Wandering Monsters does nothing to give you a useable encounter because (I assume) none of the monsters in the random table have any links to their entries in M&T assigned.
* Under Parcels, the [RESULT] Area 12 seems strange. The only entry is an "item" that is a whole paragraph of description of what happens, not an actual item.

Modules "Assault on Blacktooth Ridge", "Return to Blacktooth Ridge" and "Back to Blacktooth Ridge":
* When loaded these modules do not appear in the Library section, leading one to believe (in error) that something has gone wrong and the content has not loaded... if you look in the various areas down the right hand side of FG (NPCs, Images & Maps, Encounters, etc... the content is there. Confusing for even a seasoned user.
* NPCs in these modules do not have even default letter tokens assigned.

Classic Monsters:
* No NPCs appear to have any tokens assigned, not even generic letter tokens (I do not have this hardcover or the PDF version so I can't say for sure one way or the other if there is artwork missing).

Monsters & Treasure:
* With the prevalence of rollable tables, hopefully the tables in here will actually be updated to provide an output to a parcel that would give a CK an actually usable end result. This would require these tables to be actual functional tables, not just text entries as they are now. Applies to Treasure Tables 1.0 through 4.4B. I'm not asking for 5e level (but it would be nice...) but practically anything would be more useful than what is currently there.
* Same goes for section Appendix A: Poison in that there are numerous text "tables" that don't do as much to aid the CK as they should. These should also be re-worked to produce an actual roll, and an actual output, either to chat with a link to the item(s) or directly into a treasure parcel.

Monsters of Aihrde:
* Same comments as Classic Monsters above (and same caveats).

Rising Knight:
* Named NPCs (i.e. Ian Meanz, Madith Carn the Old, Griffy the Hat, etc... do not have any tokens assigned, not even letter tokens.

Rune Lore:
* Appendix C: New Equipment - link for Medical Equipment is blank... assume there should be something in there since all the other links in this section lead to lists of items.
* The Rune Mark - all links for class abilities are blank as has been itemized elsewhere.

Rune Lore Adventures Pt 1:
* Some Encounter entries are missing tokens, not even letter tokens (i.e. "02.08 Skeleton and Zombie Encounter").
* Story entries refer to what obviously should be pre-made items as part of treasure parcels, yet no parcels and no pre-made items (i.e. area 05.25 The Compound - Area 15 and 05.34 Dungeon Level 1 - Area 4a). Point here is this product should lessen the work of a CK who buys it, not leave basic work like this still outstanding. IMO anyways.
* Tables, 05.29 Izarian Stronghold Wandering Monsters appears to have linked the appropriate creatures, but the links are completely blank, regardless of what type of output is chosen. Again, there is added and what should be unnecessary work for the purchaser here.
* Tables 12.08 The Maze Encounters has the same issue as above.
* Tables 11.02 Random Items found could certainly make things smoother for the CK by actually linking the item referenced on the table, so it could be distributed to the players instead of having to stumble around for it.

At this point, I've spent a couple of hours going through this stuff, between this post and my earlier voiced frustrations, and I still have a sizeable chunk of paid C&C releases to look at. Hopefully someone can see what's led to the general frustration and my earlier "what's the point" comment.

More (and more) as time permits. No building accomplished with tonight's bout of insomnia unfortunately.

[damned]

Hi JohnD

In relation to missing letter tokens - these are Auto Assigned when the NPC is added to the Combat Tracker. This works for the Adventures and the Sourcebooks.
Adventures traditionally did only load to Story, NPCs, Images etc and not to the Library as such. Newer ones have been programmed to load to the library as well but they just link back to the same Story, NPCs, Images etc.

The abilities need to be changed from something like this:

<barbarian_warlord>
<value type="string">Warlord</value>
<attribute type="string"></attribute>
<description type="string">The road of adventure brings spoils of many kinds, not the least of which is reputation. At 20th level a barbarian's reputation resonates throughout the many lands of his conquest. Men of many stripes flock to him, hoping for wealth in coin and prestige. If opportunity presents itself, the barbarian can call up an army of 10-100 men-at-arms. These 1-HD men come with a standard AC 13, and they are lightly armed with swords and axes. For every 20 men-at-arms, there is one 3rd-level fighter or barbarian. The barbarian must call up the army in an area where the local communities know his name and his deeds. Furthermore, the area must have a population of 500 for every 10 men called up. Generally ruffians, mercenaries, barbarians, and the like, these men fight for up to 30 days without pay, requiring only food and water. After that time, the army disbands, unless the barbarian compels them to remain through payment
\nThe barbarian can only call up a small army once a month-or more times at the Castle Keeper's discretion. Many circumstances affect the outcome of the call. For instance, a barbarian who calls up an army and subsequently leads it to disaster may find it more difficult to call up another band later. Repeated failures lead to the loss of this ability until the barbarian regains his reputation.</description>
</barbarian_warlord>
to something like:

<barbarian_warlord>
<name type="string">Warlord</name>
<level type="number">14</level>
<attribute type="string"></attribute>
<text type="formattedtext">The road of adventure brings spoils of many kinds, not the least of which is reputation. At 20th level a barbarian's reputation resonates throughout the many lands of his conquest. Men of many stripes flock to him, hoping for wealth in coin and prestige. If opportunity presents itself, the barbarian can call up an army of 10-100 men-at-arms. These 1-HD men come with a standard AC 13, and they are lightly armed with swords and axes. For every 20 men-at-arms, there is one 3rd-level fighter or barbarian. The barbarian must call up the army in an area where the local communities know his name and his deeds. Furthermore, the area must have a population of 500 for every 10 men called up. Generally ruffians, mercenaries, barbarians, and the like, these men fight for up to 30 days without pay, requiring only food and water. After that time, the army disbands, unless the barbarian compels them to remain through payment
\nThe barbarian can only call up a small army once a month-or more times at the Castle Keeper's discretion. Many circumstances affect the outcome of the call. For instance, a barbarian who calls up an army and subsequently leads it to disaster may find it more difficult to call up another band later. Repeated failures lead to the loss of this ability until the barbarian regains his reputation.</text>
</barbarian_warlord>

[JohnD]

That's great to know damned. Unfortunately at my level of understanding, I'm only and end user of what either works or doesn't when I go to click on it. Unfortunately I lack the acuity to take on this stuff due to unfortunate life circumstances.

The Crusader's Companion things, I understand that is like complaining an extension no longer works. OK. Less than ideal, especially as it would apparently be a "time sink" to fix. But the same thing appears in paid products and I start to wonder what else is broken.

As someone who has a complete C&C bundle here on FG it would be nice to think this stuff could be considered for fixing, and if things are being changed on the back end, respectfully, it should be standard to check where new programming is going to break old stuff instead of waiting for some moron to blow a gasket at 4 am and in his frustration embarrass himself so everyone gets a nice chuckle.

[Talyn]

The Outpost is my project; I'll look at it soon as I get home from lunch. Thanks for bringing it to my attention!

EDIT: I patched it a few minutes after posting. Just a matter of when it gets pushed to Live.

[Mortar]

The fixes for Expanding Classes have been pushed.

[Talyn]

Wonder Twins power... ACTIVATE! :)

[lokiare]

The Outpost is my project; I'll look at it soon as I get home from lunch. Thanks for bringing it to my attention!

EDIT: I patched it a few minutes after posting. Just a matter of when it gets pushed to Live.

This has been queued to be pushed to LIVE on next Tuesday.

[JohnD]

This bit here took around 90 minutes to work through, possibly a bit more.

Rune Lore Adventures Pt2:
* NPCs in Personalities are not listed in alphabetical order making it a challenge to use quickly/well - first time I've ever seen this in any FG module.
* Story entry 12.01 Giant Home seems to indicate an encounter with two Frost Giants. Under Encounters I can't find a 12.01 corresponding entry, unless that is supposed to be 12.02 which has two Frost Giants (I don't think this is right because story entry 12.02 also has two Frost Giants in it). If there were an encounter link on the story entry, this would lessen the confusion for the end user CK.
* Story entry 12.05 lists treasure, yet there is no corresponding parcel anywhere in the module (nor, any parcels at all for any of the other entries). 12.05 also contains something written on parchment which would be better formatted as a shareable link into the chat log for players (the text about the prophecy).
* 12.09 Areas 1-3, 5-10 refers to rolling on Standard Treasure table in M&T. I would have liked to see a link to the relevant section of that book, although if the argument is that's not in the original, the conversation goes in a completely different direction.
* Story entry 12.10 references minotaurs. I cannot find a corresponding encounter.
* Story entry 12.11 references an NPC that I can't find anywhere in the Personalities list, yet by the verbiage, it seems the party would reasonably expect to interact and travel for a time. There is also a reference to Appendix B, New Monsters, which doesn't seem to be anywhere in this module.
* Story entry 13.00 references a number of NPCs providing stat blocks yet none are listed in the Personalities link meaning the CK needs to spend time making them, IMO this should not be the case in a paid product.
* Story entry 13.01 same issue with non-existant NPC which according to the verbiage, is a potential ally and travelling companion, meaning again the CK needs to do work.
* Story entry 13.02 references a number of possible encounters yet none are present and the actual creature(s) are missing as well.
* 13.03 same issue with missing NPC and treasure parcel not existing.
* 14.02 References weather table to roll on - best usage would not ask the user to go and find the table, best usage would link the table right in the story entry.
* 14.03 References an encounter chart for random encounters called Gottland-Ne Encounter Charts. I cannot find this chart in the Encounters section or the Tables section... if it is there it must be called something entirely different than this story entry refers to it as.
* 14.04 There is a treasure hoard listed as well as an ecounter. The encounter exists but, as seems usual, there is no parcel, and there are no items created to correspond with this entry.
* 14.05 Refers to an encounter table "above"... naturally there is no name with which to identify the specifi table, nor is there a link to the table in question.
* 14.06 Monster and treasure referenced are, as usual, nowhere to be found in this module.
* 14.07 NPCs listed, including a named leader, text indicates combat may be in the cards. Great to see as always none of these NPCs have actually been created.
* 14.08 Lists again, a number of possible encounters, none are created. References to rolling on table 14.06 to determine the encounter. Unfortunately table 14.06 as it exists in the Tables area is a poorly constructed "Coins Found" table, not a random encounter table. This likely should refer to table 14.08 which does seem to have the correct creatures listed.
* 14.14 Has treasure. None of the items are made, no treasure parcel has been created.
* 14.16 References an encounter with Yeti, yet... stop me if you've heard this before... no Yeti and no encounter.
* 14.17 Encounter, treasure, none created in the module. Broken record.
* 16.00 There is an encounter here, NPC is outlined but as per standard, not created, nor are the accompanying creatures referenced in the text.
* 16.01 There is treasure to be found here, none created, no parcel. There is a passage of information that would have been better formatted in a speech box to share with players. There is an encounter as well. The creature, strangely, is actually in the list, but there is no encounter.
*16.02 Troll Lord has personal treasure, no parcel and no items created.

[Mortar]

The entire line up needs an over-haul.

[Talyn]

If the guy who did Rune Lore is no longer with us, I'll consider adding it to my queue...

Oh and I logged into a friend's server to check out the CKG... You've got a lot of work ahead of you for that hot mess, @Mortar! On the plus side, you can keep all of Doug's rollable tables at least. I can't justify spending the money for the shape that thing is in so I'll wait for your update.

[Zhern]

Make Castles & Crusades Great Again! Nice work gathering all the issues, JohnD. Thanks to Talyn and lokiare1 for looking into these.

[JohnD]

I haven't had the will to dig into the rest of the library. Assume many of the same things will be found.

[ProfDogg]

I've been really interested in this game but I don't have hardly any hard or pdf copies of the ruleset. I bought some of the books today in FG thinking I could skip out on the current Bundles of Holding if the material was actually in the FG set. Boy, was I wrong... There is hardly any flow to the reference material and there's a lot of disconnects...

--Prof.Dogg

[damned]

I've been really interested in this game but I don't have hardly any hard or pdf copies of the ruleset. I bought some of the books today in FG thinking I could skip out on the current Bundles of Holding if the material was actually in the FG set. Boy, was I wrong... There is hardly any flow to the reference material and there's a lot of disconnects...

--Prof.Dogg

Hi Prof.Dogg for many years thats how all FG data was presented. Newer Rulesets and Source Books (but usually not adventures) now use a Reference Manual which has much better readability.

[Talyn]

As damned said, this is all FG could do for years. A good portion of the DLC is 2009-era from the previous company. I've been cleared to remaster some of it, but it takes time and I have a busy job schedule so... patience, grasshopper.

[ProfDogg]

I knew the older ones were like that (I've been playing around with 3.5 and that AD&D set lately) but I swore C&C was one of the newer sets. I really don't remember it having being around for a long while...

I like what I had seen of the Haunted Highlands setting - very Howardian and has a distinct old-school 1e feel...

--Prof.Dogg

[Andraax]

Here is a link to the C&C "Quick Start" rules. It will give you enough of the basics to get up and running: https://www.trolllord.com/downloads/pdfs/cnc_qs.pdf

[damned]

Castles and Crusades and Call of Cthulhu (6) were among the very first commercial rulesets.

[JohnD]

I knew the older ones were like that (I've been playing around with 3.5 and that AD&D set lately) but I swore C&C was one of the newer sets. I really don't remember it having being around for a long while...

I like what I had seen of the Haunted Highlands setting - very Howardian and has a distinct old-school 1e feel...

--Prof.Dogg

If you want a guided tour, hit me up some evening and I can walk you through basic usage of the ruleset (it really is quite good despite not having the 5e functionality). Welcome brother!

[Talyn]

btw @ProffDogg I hope you're liking the Players Handbook remaster I did recently? M&T is on the TEST channel currently as well.

[ProfDogg]

I hadn't popped it open until just now so just a cursory glance... But... In one word... Niiiiiiiice...

Seriously, that's what I needed personally since I didn't have the main books (pdf or hard). I'l go through and mess around with it over the weekend since our regular gaming has been postponed till the New Year.

Much, much obliged... I had intentionally not requested a refund for the set since I knew some of you were working on it. Looks like it's shaping up nicely so I'm glad I didn't.

-Prof.Dogg

[kruvek]

@Talyn thank you for your continual work on the C&C content on Fantasy Grounds. If the remastered PHB is an indicator of things to come, I look forward to future updates.

I do have a couple errors/issues/missing features of note, that weren't mentioned earlier in this thread:
In the Players Handbook (latest edition), content in the Classes section of the Reference Manual that is in a "Sidebar" format (most of the "For Example" sections are formatted this way), do not appear in the Class handout. In most cases this means the aforementioned "for example" sections are missing, which isn't a big deal. However, the Wizard and Illusionist sections on Spellbooks are completely missing from the class handout, and those are essential in playing those classes.

When dragging a spell into a character, it throws the error: "Unable to determine level for new spell, please drop within a level spell list". This error occurs for all spells, even new ones I've written from scratch (even if you put a single number in the spell level section, instead of the typical class and spell level combo found in the official spells). Dropping the spell within a spell list (which btw if you don't know, is created when you enter a number in one of the spell level boxes above) still works, but it will let you drop any level spell into any of the spell list.

I'll update this post with more if I find them.

[damned]

Welcome kruvek

[Talyn]

@Talyn thank you for your continual work on the C&C content on Fantasy Grounds. If the remastered PHB is an indicator of things to come, I look forward to future updates.

I do have a couple errors/issues/missing features of note, that weren't mentioned earlier in this thread:
In the Players Handbook (latest edition), content in the Classes section of the Reference Manual that is in a "Sidebar" format (most of the "For Example" sections are formatted this way), do not appear in the Class handout. In most cases this means the aforementioned "for example" sections are missing, which isn't a big deal. However, the Wizard and Illusionist sections on Spellbooks are completely missing from the class handout, and those are essential in playing those classes.

When dragging a spell into a character, it throws the error: "Unable to determine level for new spell, please drop within a level spell list". This error occurs for all spells, even new ones I've written from scratch (even if you put a single number in the spell level section, instead of the typical class and spell level combo found in the official spells). Dropping the spell within a spell list (which btw if you don't know, is created when you enter a number in one of the spell level boxes above) still works, but it will let you drop any level spell into any of the spell list.

I'll update this post with more if I find them.

Welcome to FG and thanks for the comment.

I intentionally left out sidebars in the actual Class sheets to keep things short and consistent, hoping that if needed players would read the reference manual pages for more details but I can look into putting them back in for the caster classes.

The error, however, is something I get too. It's a ruleset thing, and I'm only doing the reference material not the ruleset coding itself. I think I had to create a new spell list on the sheet before dropping spells would work at all, like you said. It's wonky and needs to be looked at by the ruleset developer.

[Andraax]

The error, however, is something I get too. It's a ruleset thing, and I'm only doing the reference material not the ruleset coding itself. I think I had to create a new spell list on the sheet before dropping spells would work at all, like you said. It's wonky and needs to be looked at by the ruleset developer.

It's on my todo list.

[JohnD]

I have noticed that when a player adds a spell to their list, it is added twice, whereas when I add it as the CK, it gets added just the one time. This doesn't happen every time though, so I'm at a loss on how to reproduce the error.

[kruvek]

I have noticed that when a player adds a spell to their list, it is added twice, whereas when I add it as the CK, it gets added just the one time. This doesn't happen every time though, so I'm at a loss on how to reproduce the error.

I can confirm this bug, I did the localhost trick to login as a player, and when you drag a spell into a character (into a spell level list), it throws the same error into chat, duplicates the spell, and throws the following error into the console:
21926

[Andraax]

I think the bugs are related, but I have both on my list...

[JohnD]

I can confirm this bug, I did the localhost trick to login as a player, and when you drag a spell into a character (into a spell level list), it throws the same error into chat, duplicates the spell, and throws the following error into the console:
21926

Yeah, that's it.

[Talyn]

Ok I'm home from the convention (got to play three C&C games, yay!) so just wanted to clarify: are you referring to the spellbook sidebar or the bonus spells sidebar?

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=21945&stc=1&d=1515961003

I guess I can add the spellbook one to the class sheet, that one kinda does make sense, but I'd rather keep "explanation" sidebars in the reference manual, unless everyone agrees they'd rather have the full monty on the class sheets?

Also, not sure if you've seen this thread (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?40868-Updates-to-the-C-amp-C-ruleset-for-testing), but it's where my patch notes have been posted each time.

[kruvek]

The spellbook sidebar, it's essential for making a Wizard or Illusionist, and the player would be looking at the class sheet anyway to drag the abilities into their character sheet.

[Talyn]

Done, see the patch notes for todays update (on TEST channel).

[Talyn]

Castle Keeper's Guide:
* Same thing as the Crusader's Companion above is also happening to the Secondary Skills in the CKG.
* Same thing happening in the CKG Chapter 1: Expanding Characters - all the links are blank (i.e. look under the Barbarian and the abilities supposedly linked there).


@Franklinson just pinged me about this. I see why it's happening -- the ruleset was updated so the ability windows have some new data fields but most importantly the text used to be string text and now the window uses a formatted text field. That's why nothing is displaying. @Mortar is assigned to do the CKG update but I just sent him a PM asking about it. I have some ideas how I'd handle this (and a few other things) above and beyond simply switching the text fields.

[Frankison]

Castle Keeper Guide Issues:
*Chapter 1 Expanding Characters typo (Reads "Expanding Charactera").
*Cleric and Druid Missing from Expanding Characters.
*Expanding Character links are not in alphabetical order as they are in the book.

[Mortar]

The CKG update is coming. Initially my efforts are geared towards the CKG itself, and getting it ready for use. Intro, and the first two chapters heading to a beta reader for a review of the organizational break down of the revised module . Using the reference manual format can get awkward to handle with walls of text. I tried make some separations where the text seemed to have a natural lull to it.

I also still thinking of tinkering with the index system - again

22756

[Talyn]

Try to mimic how I did the PHB, which is the same-ish as the 5E PHB. They now want each "topic" (ie. bold heading) on its own page that can be shared rather than sharing huge walls of text with multiple topics whenever possible. I think there may have been a handful of times where that didn't "flow" as well or make sense, but generally I tried to stick to the standards they're putting forth for us.

[Mortar]

For the most part, that is what I did. There are likely a few exceptions. I'd love to see one or two levels in the reference manual hierarchy - section/subsection maybe. Some of these indexes can be lengthy walls of text on their own

[Topdecker]

I ran across this today:

https://i.imgur.com/3ohOFc8.png

To replicate it, you create a parcel, copy the leather barding into it, and then open the item details from within the parcel list. I have not tested other bardings, but have suspicions....

Top

[Andraax]

Confirmed. Will add to list of stuff to work on.

[Topdecker]

The following rolled by after updates today...

Ruleset Error: die: Defined with a merge attribute, but the name attribute (rF) does not match an existing die. Skipped. File (gameelements.xml)
Ruleset Error: die: Defined with a merge attribute, but the name attribute (gF) does not match an existing die. Skipped. File (gameelements.xml)
Ruleset Error: die: Defined with a merge attribute, but the name attribute (bF) does not match an existing die. Skipped. File (gameelements.xml)
Ruleset Error: die: Defined with a merge attribute, but the name attribute (pF) does not match an existing die. Skipped. File (gameelements.xml)
Ruleset Warning: Could not load icon resource (portrait_gm_token)
Script Error: [string "scripts/manager_token2.lua"]:9: attempt to call field 'addEffectTagIconBonus' (a nil value)
Database Warning: Module override data exists and base module data has changed for (A0 Rising Knight)
Database Warning: Module override data exists and base module data has changed for (Players Handbook)


Top

[Andraax]

Are you sure you don't have an unpacked ruleset?

[Topdecker]

I...don't know what that means, Andraax, and thus don't know how to proceed.

Top

[Andraax]

Looks like changes that weren't supposed to be released until CoreRPG v3.3.8 was released got into the update. Checking into rolling those back.

[scottgeg]

Had the same happen. I take it the Effects weren’t supposed to roll out until 3.3.8 also?

They cause errors when you attack a creature with the effect attached.

[Moon Wizard]

I just rolled C&C back to the v3.3.7 version of the ruleset. It was released prematurely. Run a new update, and it should fix the issue.

Target date for v3.3.8 is week of 8/5.

Regards,
JPG

[Topdecker]

Thanks for the speedy fix!