Whether to invest in Pathfinder or 5e

[Ripskreig]

Hi guys,

I'm tossing up whether to invest in Pathfinder or 5e on FG.
I'm wondering if they are both supported equally, or whether one is better supported than the other, i.e. whether official 5e rule books and adventures generally contain more automated features (including drag and drop NPCs, feats and items) and whether there is more work for the DM to do in setting up and running a pathfinder game. You get the idea.
Be very grateful for your insights.

Cheers
Rip.

[damned]

Hi Ripskreig

Welcome to Fantasy Grounds.
What do you have the most experience at? What do you enjoy the most? Do you already have a group you run games for?

I dont play Pathfinder but these are my observations...

5e is a simpler game than Pathfinder in that PF has far more character options.
The 5e implementation on Fantasy Grounds is better than the Pathfinder one but that in no way suggests that Pathfinder is a slouch.
The license for Pathfinder is still pretty new so much of the planned content is still underway whilst all the official D&D books/adventures are already on Fantasy Grounds.
I think it will only be a matter of a few more months before there is more official Pathfinder content on Fantasy Grounds - because there is so much more Pathfinder material out there. More bestiaries, more character options and way more adventures.

So... if you already have a group and a preference... Id probably stick with it.
Otherwise 5e is the easiest to recruit for and the easier to learn.

[celestian]

Other than what damned had mentioned you might want to look at the cost of the content as well. To my curious eyes it looks like the 5E content is less expensive over all that PF... at least on the adventures front.

Although I just looked at a few big adventures and when I saw the pricetag I was shocked a bit so perhaps it's not all of them. (Curse of the Crimson Throne and Rise of the Runelords).

That said I think if you buy the books from Paizo you also get a code to get the FG module ? Check into that I've only seen mention of it so no clue if it's entirely true.

[kwarner1986]

As a pathfinder player, if you are looking for longevity. I would go with 5e as it is much newer than pathfinder. Pathfinder while it will be around for quite a while still, it's is likely going to start transitioning more to Starfinder.

As far as the fun factor and diversity is concerned. You can create over 1,000 characters in pathfinder and no two will be the same, ever. You don't have that feeling in 5e yet. It will get there with content release.

[Myrdin Potter]

You get a price reduction if you own the Pathfinder PDF, but only if you have it registered on the Paizo site.

[Ripskreig]

All really helpful responses, thanks guys.

My group have played 3.5e for about 3 years in recent times, and AD&D prior to that for decades.
We've been at it since high-school and are now in our mid 40s - where on earth did the last 20 years go.
Last time we convened, sadly just over a year ago, we were in the bowels of Rappan Atthuk, with 2 members left alive of a 5-man group. The scout and the pscionicist. All the useful people - Tank, cleric and off-tank dps - all dead. Was a very exciting point! =). Good times.

FG gives us a chance of getting back together to play, now that we're all time poor and live in different places.

The pathfinder adventure paths look really exciting and match with the complexity of play and narratives we enjoy and are used too - I've been eyeing them off for years..
However I fear our ability to manage all of PFRPG detail with FG because unfortunately we're all very time poor now.
Perhaps in time to come, it will be as well supported as 5e.

The 5e modules, I'm not especially impressed with? On reading through the reviews, I think we've played through all almost of them, or 'very' similar ones, in prior AD&D incarnations.
There are one or two which look unfamiliar, but not a lot unique going on there as far as I can tell.
Nonetheless those will probably fit with our time limitations.
Perhaps I should ask on the 5e forums for some recommendations.
Perhaps you guys have some recommendations too?

[damned]

I dont think that Pathfinder lags terribly behind 5e and it is the 2nd best supported ruleset in terms of features.
The Adventure Paths are a big selling point particularly for a group like yours that has played all the older D&D stuff.

Just because there are 1001 character classes you dont have to use them - and put the onus of knowing their character and its abilities back on your players....
Im running Curse of Strahd right now and the players are enjoying it - but it is a rewrite of earlier materials...

[Full Bleed]

Just to do some Pathfinder "defense" here...

1) Pathfinder support isn't going to be "transitioned" to Starfinder. Starfinder support, however, will likely be increasing. They are different genres, so one does not displace the other.

2) The Curse of the Crimson Throne and Runelords Anniversary Editions may be more expensive than some of the 5e offerings, but you're getting more material, too. Those are collections of the 6 modules that make up the entire path. For example, the Crimson Throne hardcover edition clocks in at 478 pages... Runelords--428. I think the 5e adventures are clocking in at 96-256 pages. So it's not an apples-to-apples comparison on price.

3) If you enjoyed the 3.5 "complexity of play" then Pathfinder is an easy transition and will be most familiar (as it is often referred to as 3.75e.) 5e is, arguably, less complex (though I consider it "pseudo simplicity") and a significantly different system from the games you've mentioned. For example, take a look at the "long (https://https://5e.d20srd.org/srd/resting.htm#longRest)" and "short (https://5e.d20srd.org/srd/resting.htm#shortRest)" rest rules in 5e and see if that is the kind of thing you believe will improve your game. You can see the 5e Combat rules here (https://5e.d20srd.org/indexes/combat.htm).

[ddavison]

Whatever you choose, start out at 1st level again and you'll have an easier go at it as you learn how to most effectively play on Fantasy Grounds as you go.

[Full Bleed]

2) The Curse of the Crimson Throne and Runelords Anniversary Editions may be more expensive than some of the 5e offerings, but you're getting more material, too. Those are collections of the 6 modules that make up the entire path. For example, the Crimson Throne hardcover edition clocks in at 478 pages... Runelords--428. I think the 5e adventures are clocking in at 96-256 pages. So it's not an apples-to-apples comparison on price.
I know I'm responding to my own post here, but there is one other additional value of the Pathfinder purchases not easily compared to 5e purchases through FG. When you buy them here you get the PDF "free" from Paizo. It's pretty convenient to be able to put the PDF of a module on a phone or tablet.

[Ripskreig]

Again all very useful and sensible comments - must be something wrong with you people =)
I feel confident investing in Pathfinder. Thank you.

Now I'm thinking about what I need to purchase. I'm time poor and need all the automation I can get my hands on. I don't have time for coding or data entry.

Helping me out with answers to any one of the following questions would be awesome.

1. Which of the available APs do you think suits FG well and is most engaging - perhaps CotCT, RotRL, Hell's Rebels (at face value this one looks most interesting to me)?

2. If I wanted to run any of these, what would I need to purchase to run the game effectively, and to have all the required monsters and npc builds (abilities, feats, items, spells) ready at my FG fingertips? IS it as simple as purchasing the Core rules, and AP 1?

3. Is there a pathfinder equivalent to the 5e complete bundle (which seems rather cheap compared to PF)?

4. Where would you recommend purchasing the products? FG site? Steam? Drive-Thru? Somewhere else?

5. Is there a yearly promo sale of some sort somewhere (e.g. prior to a FG event)? Do Humble Bundle ever have the FG PF stuff?

6. If I purchased a product on the FG site and another on Steam, will they work together in the FG program or are there compatibility issues of some sort?

[corwynn]

1) Go with what sounds good to you.
2) AFAIK yes, Core and AP1 gives you what you need to run. You will (obviously) not have all the extra stuff from the other books, but you can either use community resources or code in anything you want to use from the line.
3) Not really. There's a link between Paizo and FG which modifies pricing in some manner, but I forget how.
4) I personally just buy them on FG, but if Steam makes you feel better for whatever reason, buying there is essentially the same.
5) Steam sales are mirrored by FG. Some things are on sale weekly. There's no guarantee that any given content will be on sale at any given time. Humble Bundle has not yet had any FG stuff AFAIK, though they have had Pathfinder stuff.
6) The FG client reads from the FG store and Steam. There's no issue with buying on different sites. I just keep mine all on FG because it is "neater" in my opinion.

[damned]

it is much easier to manage buying from one or the other. if you are in the US, CA, UK, AU pricing is the same from either including sales. Some countries get some additional price breaks on Steam and if you are in one of those countries Steam is the better option. if you are on a mac you cant buy DLC from steam.

if going 5e your best entry point is PHB (CCC) + adventure of your choice. if going pathfinder its basically the same - Core + your choice of adventure.

and then of course work out what base license will work for you - get an ultimate (have the players chip in a few dollars towards your startup costs?) or have everyone buy a standard license (or go the subscription route).

[ddavison]

Core Rules + Adventure of your choice should cover your basic needs.

Additional Bestiary modules would be nice if you plan to modify the included encounters from the adventure or add your own. It doesn't sound like this fits for what you want to do, so you can skip those.

Advanced Players Guide and Ultimate Magic add additional character building options that your players can use. They can run characters without these but will only have full drag and drop support for characters within the Core Rules or any other add-ons you pick up.

[Full Bleed]

2. If I wanted to run any of these, what would I need to purchase to run the game effectively, and to have all the required monsters and npc builds (abilities, feats, items, spells) ready at my FG fingertips? IS it as simple as purchasing the Core rules, and AP 1?
Oh yeah... one more thing not accounted for when comparing Pathfinder and 5e. The Pathfinder "Core Rules" is, essentially, the "Player's Handbook" and "Dungeon Masters Guide". Paizo broke from that format with they released Pathfinder.

But for some first tier expansion material, as Doug mentioned, the Advanced Players Guide is a nice add. You can take a look at the kind of stuff you'll get from the APG here: https://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/index.html


3. Is there a pathfinder equivalent to the 5e complete bundle (which seems rather cheap compared to PF)?
Not yet. And given the sheer amount of material available for PF... that might be calling for a pretty steep investment to maintain the discount. Might not be practical.


5. Do Humble Bundle ever have the FG PF stuff?
Not FG stuff... and I'm not sure how they handle the applied discount of having the Pathfinder PDF's from a Humble Bundle. Normally, if you've bought something from Paizo you get to discount your FG purchase of the same material.

[ddavison]

Regarding Humble Bundle, Paizo gives people a boatload of PDFs as part of that deal. As long as the PDF is registered on your account at Paizo, then you get the full PDF price off the purchase here on Fantasy Grounds. Humble Bundles are definitely worth backing.

[Ripskreig]

Thanks a bunch guys.
Great to know that Core rules are essentially PHB and DMG in 1 book.
I grabbed a Humble Bundle with Core rules and Bestiary for $8 which seems like a good start.
I'll take a look at the magic guide and players guide.

[Full Bleed]

Great to know that Core rules are essentially PHB and DMG in 1 book.
Yeah, it's a 576 page beast.


I grabbed a Humble Bundle with Core rules and Bestiary for $8 which seems like a good start.
You'll be getting $9.99 off each of the FG versions since you'll have credit for having purchased the PDF's from Paizo. So you saved a little money, contributed to a good cause, and have all of the other stuff the Humble Bundle came with.

Sounds like a good deal to me.

[Ripskreig]

What would you consider essential or highly beneficial
community addons? Perhaps theres an established thread on this?

[Blahness98]

What would you consider essential or highly beneficial
community addons? Perhaps theres an established thread on this?

Depends on what you want to do. I personally get a lot of use out of the community bestiaries (granted they don't have the tokens/pictures) when I am building my own modules, the magic items tables (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?20504-Magic-Item-tables) module by Trashkicker is excellent just for the sheer fact someone entered in a boat load of magical items that I don't need to make myself, there is the spell archive (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?34185-Improved-Spell-Library) by Ken which contains nearly every spell released. You know what.. just look at the module sticky thread (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?16074-List-of-Modules) in the Pathfinder forum and pick and choose. They are all pretty good, but some are older than others and do not have the new drag and drop automation. The three that I linked I have gotten loads of use from.

While you are in the PF forum, take a look at the extensions as well. There are good things in there (like Ken's on the fly npc importer) that make life as a DM easier.

[damned]

As a new to FG GM Id reccomend not running ANY extensions to start with. Learn the base program first.

[Trenloe]

The Pathfinder Creature Parser is also very handy: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?20522-Pathfinder-Creature-Parser-V2-Beta-Version

[Erin Righ]

If you got the Core and Bestiary 1 for 8 dollars be sure to link your Paizo and FG accounts BEFORE you buy them on FG, you'll get 20 dollars off the FG Purchaseprice

[sirchibbi]

My group started fantasy grounds with 5e but after a while it got boring and the lack of character depth was uninspiring for us. So we made the switch to Pathfinder and have been enjoying it since. I think 5e has the ability to be really good it just needs more time that has already been put into Pathfinder.