3.3.2 [5E] Concentration checks not rolling for NPCs

[Rades]

Hi, in the latest version the automatic concentration rolls seem to be working fine when a PC applies a concentration effect and then takes damage, but it seems wonky for NPC spells with concentration.

For example, when a Death Knight monster casts Elemental Weapon (a self-buff with a concentration duration), Fantasy Grounds properly rolls the concentration check if the Death Knight takes damage. However, if the Death Knight casts Hold Person on a PC (which also has a concentration duration), then takes damage, no concentration roll is made.

Video example here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IG4LuFO_EDY

From very simple tests, it seems that concentration spells that apply effects to the caster (Elemental Weapon, Staggering Smite) DO properly trigger concentration checks when the caster takes damage, while concentration spells that apply effects to other creatures (Banishment, Hold Person) do NOT trigger concentration checks when the caster takes damage. I did these tests with no extensions enabled.

[Zacchaeus]

You didn't target the Death knight. It works it the target is properly targetted.

[Rades]

Ohhh, interesting, okay! Thanks, I wouldn't have figured that out.

I wonder if there is a reason targeting is required? I ask because I can imagine situations where a caster is maintaining concentration and they take damage without being directly targeted by an attack - falling damage, for example.

[Trenloe]

You don't need to have a target selected specifically - you just need to apply the damage to the correct recipient as part of a damage action.

The first concentration effect was on the Death Knight and you dragged damage to the Death Knight - the concentration check was rolled.

The second concentration effect (Paralyzed) was applied to Mykele, but the damage was dragged to the Death Knight. There is no concentration effect on the Death Knight so no concentration check was rolled as no roll was needed.

From what I see in the video it is working correctly.

[LordEntrails]

The second concentration effect (Paralyzed) was applied to Mykele, but the damage was dragged to the Death Knight. There is no concentration effect on the Death Knight so no concentration check was rolled as no roll was needed.
I'm confused. Paralyzed was applied/cast by the Death Knight, but the effect is on Mykele (as normal/expected). So that the concentration roll won't happen unless damage is applied to Mykele. But shouldn't the roll actually happen when the DK takes damage?

I know their is no effect on the DK to indicate this, so FG doesn't know what's going on, but we actually don't want the effect removed if Mykele takes damage and fails a conc check, but if the DK takes damage and the conc check fails then Mykele is no longer paralyzed.

So, does that mean that the paralyzed effect on Mykele should have the (c) removed and a separate effect with a (c) be applied to the DK?

[Zacchaeus]

What he did was simply drag the paralyzed effect from the Death Knight to the character. So all that did was place an effect on the character 'from nowhere'. What I meant above (and didn't explain it very well) is that he should target the character first by the Death Knight and then apply the effect. FG now knows that the Death Knight placed an effect that has concentration and who the effect was placed on. When the Death Knight now takes damage it will make a CON save.

[LordEntrails]

What he did was simply drag the paralyzed effect from the Death Knight to the character. So all that did was place an effect on the character 'from nowhere'. What I meant above (and didn't explain it very well) is that he should target the character first by the Death Knight and then apply the effect. FG now knows that the Death Knight placed an effect that has concentration and who the effect was placed on. When the Death Knight now takes damage it will make a CON save.
Excellent :)

Thanks.

[Trenloe]

Dragging would also work if the Death Knight was the currently active character in the combat tracker (i.e. the initiative pointer was on the Death Knight) as FG would then know that it needs to take the Death Knight as the originator of the effect. You'll see "Applied by: Death Knight" in the effect entry if you expand the character's effect section to view more details on the effect.

[irish_carbomb]

How does this work if using a druid and NPC's as a wildshape. So as a druid I cast lets say Flaming Sphere, then I combat wildshape into a bear. The DM gives me a bear to control and my Druid PC is no longer in the combat tracker. The Bear takes damage, but the flaming sphere is not associated with the Bear, so no Concentration check is rolled. Is there an effect I can create and just apply it to the bear to force CON rolls on damage.. Same goes for Barkskin or any other spell I can cast and still maintain while in wildshape.

Thanks

[Zacchaeus]

The DM should not take you off the Combat Tracker. PCs should remain on the CT for ever really. When you Wildsahpe you just switch control to another character and the DM should make your PC invisible. This way any effects etc will be maintained.

[irish_carbomb]

Yes but the creature is attacking the Bear form (NPC), not the druid (PC). So the bear takes damage but does not roll concentration, regardless if the druid is on the CT or not. Correct?.

Thanks for the super quick reply

[irish_carbomb]

I actually figured it out kinda. So if I apply the Barkskin to the Bear from the Druid. It will say under the effect Applied by: Druid name. If I then click on that Applied by text it disappears and becomes tied to the Bear NPC, so when the bear takes damage it will roll concentration.

BUT.. As a druid when I wildshape I retain INT, WIS, and CHR, along with all SAVE bonuses.. Obviously the bear does not automatically get my +2 to CON. So I guess it might be easier just to create an effect that adds to the CON for automation purposes?

Bear is a bad example cause it already has a +3 to CON, but you get what I'm saying

[Zacchaeus]

This rather depends on how you are handling your Wildshape characters. Personally I prefer to create PCs for them with all the correct stats. Another method is to use effects on your PC to change all the stats etce (but this is rather laborious) and yet another way is for the DM to give you control of an NPC - but again you need to finesse the ability scores somehow.

[irish_carbomb]

Yeah we do the NPC option because it seems the easiest overall, since the Druid will tend to pick all sorts of different shapes (it would be a lot of PC's to create).

[LordEntrails]

Some things you have to handle manually :)

[irish_carbomb]

Ok so I created two effects that I would apply from my Druid to my Wildshape NPC. One adjusts the Constitution Save of the Beast if it is lower than the Druid. The other creates the actual concentration check. Not perfect but it help automate some of it.. You must make sure to clear the Applied By: Druid name, on the Concentration effect otherwise it will not work when the Bat is hit. And of course you need to adjust the modifyer for the CON save depending on the NPC's CON stat.

Druid CON is 12 (+2), and NPC is a Bat (as example), CON is 9(-1)
Druid CON Adjust; SAVE: 1 [CON]
Druid Spell Concentration (C)