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celestian
September 22nd, 2017, 08:18
This is something I've had in my ruleset for a while and decided I'd make an extension so that it could be used with 5E ruleset.

How does it work? When you apply the extension to a 5E campaign you'll notice a new field on item called "Effect Features". When you place add an effect such as "IFT: ALIGN (evil); AC: 2;" it will be placed on the owner of the item if they equipped it and they are in the combat tracker.

You will also notice the same type of entry for NPCs. It works similar to the above except when you drag/drop the NPC into the combat tracker these effects will be added automatically.

Here are the places you'll notice differences.

Items/NPCs

https://i.imgur.com/vEACv4x.png

In action in the CT, drag and dropped all of these PC's and NPC in:
https://i.imgur.com/ySzKm5N.png

In action "Action Only" effect (only used when THAT weapon/item is used for attack/damage).
https://i.imgur.com/QzwZaqx.png

This requires the current version of 5E and FG (3.3.2 at this writing).

Please report issues/etc as I don't use 5E for my own games.

Link to GitHUB (https://github.com/CelestianGC/IE/)version of the extension. This will be the version I am developing and not a "stable" version.

update: 1.1, multi-effect feature
update: 1.2, "by" text fixed.
update: 1.3, edits to effects of PCs in CT take affect immediately. (if you have multiple on the same item they all get removed/added with update).
update: 1.4, changed name from "IE" to "Advanced Effects". Added "Effect Features" to NPC entries as well.
update: 1.6, changed display a bit, added info/pop up window as is generally more standard (Gave me more space to work with) to add an easier "effect" system.
update: 1.7, added advanced effects to characters, cleaned up the included files so less work down the road to update for new 5E ruleset revs.
update 1.9, shuffled windows around and used a subwindow so I can better manage visibility of the window in items. Players can no longer see the Advanced Effects setup on a item. Same for NPCs but not for Character sheets. Also removed several "gmeditonly" options because of the above.
update 1.9.2, captured events to manage permissions to data nodes. Resolves some issues where players couldn't manage their item/effects properly. Corrected some display of effects added/removed depending on permissions/identification.
update 1.9.5, "ActionOnly" effects added.
update 1.9.6, bug fix, addEffects() issue.
update 1.9.7, bug fix, action/self also duration issues (when using rounds).

Download the current stable version here at the new thread. (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?40833-5E-Advanced-Effects-(items-npcs-characters))

RocketDad
September 22nd, 2017, 15:43
OMG this is amazing. Can't wait to get home and try it. You sir are a champion!

Zeruel_Kagenie
September 22nd, 2017, 15:48
This extension is one of the best and although still in development it should already be a fundamental feature of Fantasy Grounds. The extension currently works perfectly for items with permanent effects. If someday it had the option to add the functions of Duration and expend would be great.

This extension has great potential. Thank you for your great work Celestian.

Ken L
September 22nd, 2017, 17:29
Mind if I port this to PF?

celestian
September 22nd, 2017, 17:33
Mind if I port this to PF?

This leans on the 5E/CoreRPG functions but if you can certainly ;) As someone else suggested, I agree, this should be something that is an existing feature and was surprised it wasn't.

Ken L
September 22nd, 2017, 17:36
Nice, I'll see what I can do when I get back.

Paul Pratt
September 22nd, 2017, 18:05
Mind if I add this to my 40k ruleset? I already have useable gear, and this is one more step along what I was thinking.

celestian
September 22nd, 2017, 18:10
Mind if I add this to my 40k ruleset? I already have useable gear, and this is one more step along what I was thinking.

Okay, to make this clear for everyone. Make use of this code in your rulesets if you wish ;)

If you make improvements to functionally I'd love to see/hear about them so I can reverse it back into mine tho !

Moon Wizard
September 22nd, 2017, 19:55
I have thought about this a bit, and if I had time, I was eventually planning on adding this capability. But, it's a perfect extension example for now.

Some random thoughts:
* I was originally thinking of trying to implement at the CoreRPG level, since equipping and effects exist at that level. Not sure if the right pieces are there though.
* You may want to consider that items may have multiple effects. My thought is that this would be a new tab for items to add an effects list.
* Another approach I've considered is having the effects on any equipped gear automatically checked without having to add them to the combat tracker. This would require updating the effects manager script to check there as well as the combat tracker entry.

Cheers,
JPG

celestian
September 22nd, 2017, 20:11
I have thought about this a bit, and if I had time, I was eventually planning on adding this capability. But, it's a perfect extension example for now.


This is great news and what I was hoping ;) I do this stuff for fun and I am sure someone that does it for a job can do it much better. I hope I can borrow your work and replace mine with something better down the road ;)



Some random thoughts:
* I was originally thinking of trying to implement at the CoreRPG level, since equipping and effects exist at that level. Not sure if the right pieces are there though.
* You may want to consider that items may have multiple effects. My thought is that this would be a new tab for items to add an effects list.


My theory was if they had multiple they would just be one effect string but it certainly would be better served to be able to configure each and as someone else already requested have a duration baked in.

One thing DMs will need to be aware of with this is people thinking "lets give this sword ATK: +1" and not realize it gives the character +1 to attack with anything since it's a "character effect". For things like cloak of protection it's great (cloak +1 granting +1 to all saves/etc).



* Another approach I've considered is having the effects on any equipped gear automatically checked without having to add them to the combat tracker. This would require updating the effects manager script to check there as well as the combat tracker entry.


Originally I had this but it wasn't pretty at the time so I decided to revamp and try to use the code in CoreRPG/5E as much as I could to reduce my "work". When I did that I decided to drop the persistent aspect and only have it if they were in the CT.

After revamping things to what I have now I could probably go back and re-do it. Best way to do it might be move effects children to character sheet and "link" back from combat tracker to character sheet like how is done for hp/ac/etc?

celestian
September 22nd, 2017, 20:25
After revamping things to what I have now I could probably go back and re-do it. Best way to do it might be move effects children to character sheet and "link" back from combat tracker to character sheet like how is done for hp/ac/etc?

The caveat would be that you'd need to check the character sheet for effects then. That's where I decided it best not to hack CoreRPG baseline code to check there for PCs and CT for NPCs. (didn't want to replace to much cause then anytime a update was released it'd break).

Moon Wizard
September 22nd, 2017, 20:35
I havenít done any work on it, just thought about it a bit which I usually do before I build anything.

For multiple effects, I think they are needed, because of conditional effects.

For weapons, thatís a unique challenge. I was thinking to only apply effects on those when attacking, but hadnít figured out how to differentiate yet.

You shouldnít need to hack the character sheet at all, because the effects would be on the item records and not in the character sheet. Now, being able to view all the effects on a character would be a challenge, especially without having to synch data all over the place.

darrenan
September 22nd, 2017, 20:44
It would be great if the application of the effect wasn't based on equipped or not, but dynamically applied somehow only when the weapon was used in an attack roll (per MWs last comment). I normally just keep all my weapons "equipped" on my character sheet. Having to toggle which weapon I was actually using at any point in time would be slightly annoying.

celestian
September 22nd, 2017, 21:03
It would be great if the application of the effect wasn't based on equipped or not, but dynamically applied somehow only when the weapon was used in an attack roll (per MWs last comment). I normally just keep all my weapons "equipped" on my character sheet. Having to toggle which weapon I was actually using at any point in time would be slightly annoying.

The way it works now you just don't put effects on the item that you don't want with other items. Giving a weapon +1 attack would be putting it on the items bonus. Giving a weapon +fire resist, +1 saves, +1 skill, or +ability score is all viable.

Having the effect checked from the item itself is an option and in certain cases we'd just need to know it was used. Otherwise it needs to be equipped for the persistence of things like saves.

celestian
September 22nd, 2017, 21:14
I haven’t done any work on it, just thought about it a bit which I usually do before I build anything.


Sorry, didn't mean to imply you were jumping right on this. I contemplate how to best do things as well. Often times for days ;)



For multiple effects, I think they are needed, because of conditional effects.


Can you not string conditionals along with other effects in the same string?

I was thinking having the individualized mostly for duration.

Tho in my mind I can't think of something that is a duration except perhaps maybe something like wings of flying that only work for 3 turns or something? In my ruleset I attached powers to items (when the item is given to the player they get a new power in the actions tab that shows up they can use) so you can apply them when used so it's not something I spent much time thinking about.




For weapons, that’s a unique challenge. I was thinking to only apply effects on those when attacking, but hadn’t figured out how to differentiate yet.

You shouldn’t need to hack the character sheet at all, because the effects would be on the item records and not in the character sheet. Now, being able to view all the effects on a character would be a challenge, especially without having to synch data all over the place.

I didn't consider that, checking the items. I'll think on it. Right now all of that backs into the CT effects children.

Moon Wizard
September 22nd, 2017, 23:40
Just brainstorming with you...

Using a conditional in the effect is a boolean gate to determine whether the evaluation of the effect will continue past the conditional. If you have an item which has two separate effects (+2 attack vs. dragons, +4 damage vs. elementals); then you wouldn't be able to code this with a single effect string, you would need 2 effects.

Still thinking on the weapons, but like darrenan was saying, I was thinking that the weapon item node would be needed in attack and damage rolls in order to pull effects from the weapon only when it is used. And, that the general effect handling would need to know to ignore equipped weapons in general. Something that can be overriden at the individual ruleset level to allow each ruleset to tell the effect manager whether an equipped item should be included or not, given an item node.

As a side note, one of the reasons why I haven't implemented this feature yet is because whenever we implement a feature like this, people expect that all of the data in all of the DLC instantly comes with all the effects pre-built, and wonder why not every item has full functionality (even if there are no effects that are relevant yet). So, it's a much larger project when we get to the point where we can do something official. At this point, it's not on our radar, since I'm dealing with current release, and trying to get some time to work on FGU.

Regards,
JPG

Myrdin Potter
September 23rd, 2017, 06:28
If you want to be even more of a hero, look at adding the same thing to NPC.

There are a ton of NPC that do not parse the abilities into CT effects, especially ones in 3rd party modules.

The easiest solution I have thought of is exactly what you did for items, allow the entry of an effect for the NPC that appears on the CT.

The top of the world ability would be to be able to add a power/spell like player characters can, but I suspect the code for that is much hard to add cast, saving throws, etc.

Moon Wizard has set phrases that trigger auto populating the CT, but there are so many cases where this does not work that so,etching like what this extension does for items for NPC would be great.

celestian
September 23rd, 2017, 08:51
As a side note, one of the reasons why I haven't implemented this feature yet is because whenever we implement a feature like this, people expect that all of the data in all of the DLC instantly comes with all the effects pre-built, and wonder why not every item has full functionality (even if there are no effects that are relevant yet). So, it's a much larger project when we get to the point where we can do something official.


I can certainly see that. I definitely have more flexibility than you guys do since I can just rip something out or totally change it and not worry about the things you mentioned.


If you want to be even more of a hero, look at adding the same thing to NPC.

There are a ton of NPC that do not parse the abilities into CT effects, especially ones in 3rd party modules.

The easiest solution I have thought of is exactly what you did for items, allow the entry of an effect for the NPC that appears on the CT.

The top of the world ability would be to be able to add a power/spell like player characters can, but I suspect the code for that is much hard to add cast, saving throws, etc.


I already have an effect string on NPCs just like this one for items in my ruleset. So it's very possible.

I also allow them to add spells/powers/weapons/skills/inventory just like players. That is a bit bigger of an issue than just a npc effect string tho.



Moon Wizard has set phrases that trigger auto populating the CT, but there are so many cases where this does not work that so,etching like what this extension does for items for NPC would be great.

This is why I wanted to add something a bit more mechanical. I'd really like to have a system that has menus/options to add/toggle for each effect much like you use for weapons but effects are really complex and ... it was easier to just add the string ;)


First thing (low hanging fruit) I'll sort out multiples and some options like duration and perhaps hidden/visible for items. Right now I think only the DM can see the effect the way I have it set.

After that I'll look into what it would take for NPCs (and add the multiple+options to it as well) in the 5E ruleset.

Thanks for all the great feedback folks! I'll see what I can get implemented ;)

Myrdin Potter
September 23rd, 2017, 09:12
I look forward to seeing that. I will not be able to use the extension in DLC that I develop, but at least I can use it in my home games. And maybe Moon Wizard will see the result and work with you to implement in the main program, that has happened before with other community extensions.

Right now he is is playing fire brigade for flames coming from users that are having issues with this update. :-p

BubbaGrim
September 24th, 2017, 09:03
When my players use this it sets the "visible to gm' tag rather than "visible to all", am I missing something?

celestian
September 24th, 2017, 19:39
When my players use this it sets the "visible to gm' tag rather than "visible to all", am I missing something?

I tried to set it up if the item was identified it was not "DM only" but if it was ID'd everyone could see it. If you don't use the ID campaign setting I'm not sure what it will do actually now that I think about it. I'll review the code when I add the multiple effects/duration and see that it's working as intended.

My intent is it shows to player if identified, DM otherwise. The new version that'll come out should allow you to over-ride either also.

celestian
September 25th, 2017, 22:05
Updated version: 1.1

This version now has "multi-effect" option. Each effect has effect string, dice duration, mod-duration, unit and show/hide options.

Dice duration is something 5E might not use but I use it in AD&D so left it there. You can throw dice in there for a random duration. If you want a static duration you just put the number in the number/mod field.

Here is what it looks like now. I'm leaning towards removing the "Effect" string to left of all the entries to narrow things a bit but, let me know what ya think.

https://i.imgur.com/BW1pCcn.png

The first post has the lasted version as download now.

celestian
September 30th, 2017, 01:04
Update: 1.3

Edits to effects of items on PCs in CT take affect immediately. If you have multiple on the same item they all get removed/added with update.

Myrdin Potter
September 30th, 2017, 02:49
This keeps looking nicer and nicer. I really think this is a better approach that creating a separate power that needs to be applied. NPC and items should have permanent effects.

If an item is not identified yet, does the effect work?

celestian
September 30th, 2017, 03:38
This keeps looking nicer and nicer. I really think this is a better approach that creating a separate power that needs to be applied. NPC and items should have permanent effects.

If an item is not identified yet, does the effect work?

It does but the effect is hidden from the user in the CT. If you select the "show" option it will show it to them even if it's not ID'd. There might be some other ways they can see it (like on attakcs/etc depending on the effect type) depending on how the 5E ruleset handles "hidden" effects in all it's rolls/display of said rolls/etc.



"NPC and items should have permanent effects."

I've already started creating objects for certain classes to carry to manage their class/racial items that have effects that would typically have to be manually setup each time they were placed into the CT.

In my ruleset I've applied effects to NPCs similarly to how I do items here. I'm actually going to go back and revamp them to have this multi-effect system I've setup on items here. As it is now it's really nice to have. I don't need to know the incantations to make a NPC be resistant to something and i'm not even sure it can handle the IFT style.

celestian
October 1st, 2017, 22:00
Update 1.4:


Added effects to NPC entries (looks exactly the same as entry for items). Drag/drop a NPC to CT with a effect entry and the effect(s) will be applied in the combat tracker.
Changed name to Advanced Effects (since I now include the features for NPCs).


Here is a snap of it in action.

https://i.imgur.com/WSDEkza.png

I'll tweak the load message to show "Advanced Effects" next rev ;)

Waldbaer
October 1st, 2017, 22:23
wonderful extension. Thank you for updating it! I swear I will use it a lot :)

celestian
October 1st, 2017, 22:45
So, after doing this for items and npcs... I was thinking, why not do it for PCs? Initially I was planning to create objects for racial, class or other "effects" and then have the PC equipped them so they are added but... why not have it directly on the character sheet? Specially for class/race related.

I'm not sure where I'd put it on the sheet and it seems a bit more technical that most players could cope with so not sure about it yet.

Waldbaer
October 1st, 2017, 22:48
would definitevly be a nice add I assume - I would opt for a yes :)

Myrdin Potter
October 2nd, 2017, 00:57
Players have a lot of ability to create and add effects to the characters with the built in tools. Items and NPC are a little more natural for this extension.

I am hoping that Moon Wizard looks at thhis and considers making it standard in core RPG based rulesets as it solves a lot of questions for items and NPC abilities and makes non parsed abilities much less manual.

celestian
October 2nd, 2017, 01:05
Players have a lot of ability to create and add effects to the characters with the built in tools. Items and NPC are a little more natural for this extension.

I am hoping that Moon Wizard looks at thhis and considers making it standard in core RPG based rulesets as it solves a lot of questions for items and NPC abilities and makes non parsed abilities much less manual.

Yeah, the more I think about it the more I don't think it would be a good fit in pc character sheet.

The one use that I'm still trying to figure out a way to do is when a weapon is equipped and grants ATK:+1 that it only works if that weapon is in use for that attack. If I passed the weapon node into the attack I could do the checking with that tho I am still really not sure it's worth the work. Personally I never considered this a problem since you would add a "bonus" on the weapon, not the effect.

I also need to add some "hide" code for items so players can't see the "Effect Features" when viewing a item they carry I suppose.

Thegroo
October 2nd, 2017, 02:14
Great work

LordEntrails
October 2nd, 2017, 04:01
I think Moon said elsewhere that he likes this idea, but it has significant impacts and may not be able to adopt it because of those far reaching implications. Specifically, If this were to become part of core functionality, then all current store content would have to be updated to provide this capability for all of that content.

For instance, the 5E item forge would have to be redone to accommodate this. And all the items and template items in the DMG have effects added to them. And adventures, and the PHB, and... :(

Now, if we could convince John & Doug that we wouldn't complain that these capabilities wouldn't be in all of the stuff we have already bought is ok. That might help, but then we would have to convince everyone else in the community, and those that buy them between implementation of this and when (if ever) the add-ons are enhanced with this capability, that they are not being short changed because the products they paid for "aren't fully functional"...

Now, I do hope John and Doug figure out a way to incorporate this, but I understand a few of the challenges they face.

celestian
October 2nd, 2017, 06:25
I think Moon said elsewhere that he likes this idea, but it has significant impacts and may not be able to adopt it because of those far reaching implications. Specifically, If this were to become part of core functionality, then all current store content would have to be updated to provide this capability for all of that content.

For instance, the 5E item forge would have to be redone to accommodate this. And all the items and template items in the DMG have effects added to them. And adventures, and the PHB, and... :(


Basically what needs to be done is parse all the NPC strings as is done during a drag/drop to CT and then create the effect entries from those for NPCs... not hard really.

The bit that's a pain would be items. Since none(?) of those even have effects attached or strings matching for them. Like Belt of Frost Giant Strength. I suspect people just set the strength value manually (it's a base strength value, not a +XX value and far as I know 5E ruleset doesn't even support base value changes). Might have to add something to support those and base AC items. I did it for my ruleset a while back for just this reason. Magic items get a bit fuzzy ;)

It's a lot of data entry for items certainly.

Myrdin Potter
October 2nd, 2017, 06:32
For the most part, official NPC that are in the converted WoTC products automagically work as they are parsed in the code.

3rd party modules are hit and miss. Always a miss if you cannot match the exact wording of an existing NPC that is automagically handled (I am doing a 3rd party paper conversion now and I am keeping that in mind).

So I donít see this as a big impediment to the existing DLC. It works now, and the effects often need to be manually generated by the DM. Adding a field where you could add in the right effect will not break the existing products.

Bidmaron
October 2nd, 2017, 06:38
Well, if the criteria for adding new features is that it might create a situation where existing products don't magically update to use that feature, well, it seems like that limits new features quite a bit....

LordEntrails
October 2nd, 2017, 22:31
I thought I made it clear that it was items that provided the challenge to existing products (not NPCs).


Well, if the criteria for adding new features is that it might create a situation where existing products don't magically update to use that feature, well, it seems like that limits new features quite a bit....
True, but what is the solution? Go back and reinvest a lot of time adding a functionality to already released products? And do you update all the products before you release the new functionality? Or do you release the new functionality and then deal with all the customers complaining about their product not supporting that new functionality?

And then, implementing something like this (which, please don't misunderstand, I'm strongly supportive of) which would take away resources from focusing and working on FGU.

As a 3PP, I have a use question on this, or two really;
1) If I include these capabilities in a product I develop, what happens if the user doesn't use this module? Do they get console errors? Do the items otherwise work as expected?
2) How stable is this format? I mean if I go and use this extension for something I publish, am I going to have to go back in 6 months and redo all the items because something significant in this extension is changed and the old module with enhanced items no longer works with the new extension version?

Myrdin Potter
October 2nd, 2017, 22:50
*double post*

I would note that many DLC were done before new functionality was added and very French have been updated.

Myrdin Potter
October 2nd, 2017, 23:08
I think you missed the part where I said I hope the approach works and the code gets incorporated into the main program.

Bidmaron
October 2nd, 2017, 23:29
I would not expect anyone to put an extension into their module. The discussion was adding this to the main program

Waldbaer
October 3rd, 2017, 16:09
Hi Celestial,

great idea this extension, but it is unfortunately not working for me even causing a runtime error crashing the program (s. screenshot). This error occurs every time (I repeated it several times to check it out and traced it also back to you extension) when I apply one of my self done effects to a char in the combat tracker. In the picture I took the "Gnome Cunning" effect and activated it for the Gnome char. Then the runtime error came and was only stoppable by shutting down the whole program.

20858

Waldbaer
October 3rd, 2017, 16:10
Hi Celestial,

great idea this extension, but it is unfortunately not working for me even causing a runtime error crashing the program (s. screenshot). This error occurs every time (I repeated it several times to check it out and traced it also back to you extension) when I apply one of my self done effects to a char in the combat tracker. In the picture I took the "Gnome Cunning" effect and activated it for the Gnome char. Then the runtime error came and was only stoppable by shutting down the whole program.

20858

Before the runtime error came I had a nil value error coming up though...

Waldbaer
October 3rd, 2017, 16:11
one more thing: I applied the effect from the char sheet to the combat tracker. I did not use the "effect" options where the effect is also situated. I don't know if that is helping much

celestian
October 3rd, 2017, 17:22
Hi Celestial,

great idea this extension, but it is unfortunately not working for me even causing a runtime error crashing the program (s. screenshot). This error occurs every time (I repeated it several times to check it out and traced it also back to you extension) when I apply one of my self done effects to a char in the combat tracker. In the picture I took the "Gnome Cunning" effect and activated it for the Gnome char. Then the runtime error came and was only stoppable by shutting down the whole program.

20858

I was unable to reproduce the error. I also tried it with a single entry (which I think is what you might have done?) as 'ADVSAV: intelligence;ADVSAV:wisdom;ADVSAV:charisma' and as 3 individual entries (see screen shot).

Try with a clean campaign and no other extension. I am unsure what the others do you have so can't comment on if it's causing an collision of some sort.

https://i.imgur.com/ihWxyxX.png

Zacchaeus
October 3rd, 2017, 17:24
Hi Celestial,

great idea this extension, but it is unfortunately not working for me even causing a runtime error crashing the program (s. screenshot). This error occurs every time (I repeated it several times to check it out and traced it also back to you extension) when I apply one of my self done effects to a char in the combat tracker. In the picture I took the "Gnome Cunning" effect and activated it for the Gnome char. Then the runtime error came and was only stoppable by shutting down the whole program.

I'm not seeing this. Are you running any other extensions? Does this happen in a new campaign without any extension?

EDIT: And i didn't create the effect the way that celestian has done it in his graphic above. I created the effect in the usual way on the actions tab.

celestian
October 3rd, 2017, 17:25
Double post somehow...

Waldbaer
October 3rd, 2017, 17:40
OK. I try this out and report back. That might have caused the issue. I have done a "regular" effect the same way Zacchaeus explained it. Whatever - I'll tell you this evening CET time. Thanks for the fast replies

Waldbaer
October 3rd, 2017, 17:46
Don't need big testing. Have the reason: it is not this extension causing the error but the Death Indicator 2.0 which killed the system. Sorry for reporting here before I was sure, my mistake. I bring this up in the correct thread later today.

Thanks again.

celestian
October 3rd, 2017, 17:52
Don't need big testing. Have the reason: it is not this extension causing the error but the Death Indicator 2.0 which killed the system. Sorry for reporting here before I was sure, my mistake. I bring this up in the correct thread later today.

Thanks again.

If you use my Map Indicator for Death (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?38059-5E-Map-Indicator-for-Death) it should be fine. The 2.0 one is based on my code he's just not updated for 3.3.2 yet.

Waldbaer
October 3rd, 2017, 17:56
OK. Then this is it. Actually I have downloaded both, yours and the 2.0. Very good to know. Then I try yours next time and it should be fine. Thanks.

LordEntrails
October 3rd, 2017, 23:42
I guess I didn't make myself clear.

I too hope this capability gets added to the core program. But, I understand the difficulties in doing so.

I never meant to imply that SW doesn't or hasn't updated DLC to account for new functionality in core. Just that revising DLC is something they will have to consider if they wish to incorporate such functionality into core FG.

Given that John or Doug has yet to say if they would or when they might include this functionality into Core, my other questions were around how using this extension for developing module would impact users who chose not to use this module.

celestian
October 4th, 2017, 01:00
my other questions were around how using this extension for developing module would impact users who chose not to use this module.

It should have no effect at all other the the loss of the features it adds. Items do not have anything like it and you can probably continue to use the string matching for NPCs for almost everything tho there would be some missing there as well.

In short, it should only result in the db.xml having some fields that aren't used unless they happen to use the extension.

Wait for a stable version tho. Right now I'm still changing things up ;)

LordEntrails
October 4th, 2017, 01:11
...
Wait for a stable version tho. Right now I'm still changing things up ;)
Thanks :) I was hoping it would be usable in modules for people who don't end up using the extension. Also had the same thoughts about stability :) Keep up the good work!

knucklehead
October 4th, 2017, 10:51
As for automatic handling of racial traits, the character sheet > Abilities > Traits section could be updated to include both the current "here's a string data field with the description of stuff you need to add manually" method and the much-needed, super-useful, exactly-the-kind-of-auto-calculation-we-need racial trait effects system without breaking anything.

All of the traits/bonuses that can be implemented by adding effects are usually manually placed In the Actions Tab as a Power (Add Action > Effect), and then activated manually when added to the combat tracker.

While in FG Power User Land this might not seem like much of a hassle, it's enormously inconvenient and prone to error. Having effect bundles that can be applied automatically any time a PC is added to the tracker would be....pretty great.

I'd say that's a pretty high priority thing, as long as the feature safely ignores older module/rulebook data sets that don't have those defined yet.

A not serious suggestion: Cloak of the Bat that accounts for desktop lighting states and kills players when you turn the sun on. :)

InnocentSoul
October 4th, 2017, 22:38
Any chance to apply that to Feats, class features, and racial features? I have a few ways to use that for my campaign since I have a lot of custom content.

astromath
October 9th, 2017, 01:19
If you want feats see: http://www.dmsguild.com/product/222489/Fantasy-Grounds-5E-Feats-Effects-Coding
If you want detailed spell effects see: http://www.dmsguild.com/product/209256/Fantasy-Grounds-5E-Spell-Effects-Coding
If you want class features see: http://www.dmsguild.com/product/210436/Fantasy-Grounds-5E-Class-Feature-Effects-Coding
If you want racial traits see: http://www.dmsguild.com/product/210542/Fantasy-Grounds-5E-Race-Trait-Effects-Coding

celestian
October 9th, 2017, 06:13
So, next version I am working on I am trying to make it a little easier for DMs to add these things without knowing to much about how to do it.

So, to that end I've added "types" of effects.


Custom/Default: is the blank box of text you make on your own.
Save: has options for modifier type, the save type and the modifier itself. (modifier type is for base/etc, not sure if 5e has this off hand)
Ability: has options for modifier type, ability selection and modifier. (again forget if 5e has modifier base strength/etc but if not it wont have it)
Susceptibility: IMMUNE, RESIST, VULN selections and a drop down of all the types (damage and conditions).
Misc: type is AC,ATK,CHECK,DMG,HEAL/etc with a modifier.


Using everything but "Custom" and it will generate the proper effect string for whatever options you select. No more typos, no more having to remember what needs to be upper case or did I forget the ":" or not/etc... That said it's for basic items and there might be somethings missing.... but it should get a lot of it for most folks... others can use the custom options.

The only odd thing I've yet to resolve I setVisible() on these options so only the one you have set as type shows. The problem is when I started using combo boxes (some of these lists were just silly to put in cycler) it started showing the pull down arrow (tiny sliver) even when I have the item set to not visible. It is kinda irritating but doesn't break anything. I'm going to see if I can find out how to fix it. I'm gonna see if anyone in the "Workshop" has any pointers.

I'm still looking at where I want to put "advanced effects" on the character sheet as well. Right now, I'm leaning towards the abilities tab below languages.

Full Bleed
October 9th, 2017, 11:26
I think Moon said elsewhere that he likes this idea, but it has significant impacts and may not be able to adopt it because of those far reaching implications. Specifically, If this were to become part of core functionality, then all current store content would have to be updated to provide this capability for all of that content.
I worry that FG's pivot to content over feature development will continue to be a self-limiting aspect of this platform moving forward, specifically because the more DLC there is the more daunting any update that affects it or dates it becomes. DLC should not be creating feature resistance.

This, of course, is one of the reasons I pushed for more improvements to the PF ruleset before it was released... figuring that the large amount of content that would follow would end up boxing in future feature considerations.

Honestly, FG might need to take this one on chin and admit that DLC is not guaranteed to evolve with the platform in perpetuity. Making a distinction between official content compatibility and feature evolution should be clear. Feature evolution should not be expected or guaranteed (the ole, "You're buying the DLC for what it does now, not what it will do in the future" line.) Users need to be realistic here and recognize that feature updates to existing DLC is not always going to be passive.

I suspect that when features do begin to date the most popular DLC some community development will step in to fill some voids or, more likely, this could open the door to DLC "upgrades" (v2+) to fund and justify future development when there are enough new "features" to warrant such a thing. They might even be able to work out permanent discounts on earlier (v1) DLC offerings for older rule sets (licensing permitting) which could end up being a kind of halfway mark between SRDs and the most up to date DLC.

Bottom line: Instead of allowing the DLC to create drag on new feature adoption, they need to model it so that the desire to have updated DLC will incentivize and drive feature innovation.

Bidmaron
October 9th, 2017, 13:48
The problem is inconsistent behavior.
In the current architecture, there is no way for users to know what automation features DLC supports and what it doesn’t. Users will get used to e.g. weapon effects automatically applying in the combat tracker and won’t know that if they use a weapon from The World’s Greatest Adventure won’t have the same behavior. And automation isn’t much good if you have to second check the results every time just in case it didn’t work.
As for community developers stepping in to fix old DLC, that is either hard or impossible because official DLC is encrypted, and in many cases it takes modification of the module to upgrade it.
All that said, I am in general agreement with your premise but it is just not as simple as we all want it to be.

Myrdin Potter
October 9th, 2017, 16:42
All the DLC currently works and would not stop. Reference manuals were created and old DLC was not updated. Tables were added and old DLC was not updated. There is a lot of older DLC that does not use new functionality.

The only issue would be if the old DLC broke and the main issue I see is the old records not have the new field, and how the main program handles in and does not break. This is not as straightforward as it seems as what is displayed on the screen matters for size of character sheet and combat tracker.

Much more a matter of time and effort which is stretched thin.

Full Bleed
October 9th, 2017, 19:34
The problem is inconsistent behavior.
True. But we already have this between rule sets and people seem to have adapted well enough (those, that is, that use multiple rule sets). There is also "inconsistency" between how DLC is presented (as noted by a recent requirement for some Pathfinder DLC to match previous/other DLC before release.)

I just think that each DLC needs to be sort of accepted for what it is. Some will be better than others... sort of how some modules in an adventure path are "better" than others.

If the user demand is that "any new feature must be extended to all DLC" then the result will be fewer new features. This is simply a less tenable "solution" to the issue (imo.)

LordEntrails
October 9th, 2017, 19:54
Maybe just stating what version of FG the DLC was created using would be sufficient for most of us. (I think this is currently done.) Of course, as witnessed with other threads recently, we will always get those with a differing opinion and will state that opinion loudly and belligerently.

There is also the idea of having a list or description of what features the DLC uses, but this is going to be difficult to standardize on or communicate to people.

Good discussion, good thoughts to contemplate.

celestian
October 10th, 2017, 01:11
Update 1.6.

This version is a more backend work to make the "easy" effects menus work properly. I've updated the images for the new version. Things look a bit different.

You now have custom, ability, save, susceptible and misc effect types. Custom is good ol'e plain string you fill in, the others are menu driven systems to try and make applying effects easier for DMs that don't have the wiki in front of them.

edit: I just realized the label "Type" is missing from the custom/ability/save/cycler. I've fixed that for next rev but... just know it should have one if you're confused.

celestian
October 10th, 2017, 02:47
This is the progress on the PC version of these features. Should be able to release a version tomorrow for folks to test out.

https://i.imgur.com/VqWOJXF.png

Easier than I thought... 5E version.

https://i.imgur.com/ltLcNYy.png

damned
October 10th, 2017, 07:01
Goldenrod!
I mean well done!

celestian
October 10th, 2017, 08:54
Goldenrod!
I mean well done!

Hah, yeah. I thought it made the character sheets look more old school ;) Was my fav of the sheets even tho it was missing stuff.

Waldbaer
October 10th, 2017, 10:24
This extension is really great. Actually I plan to use it on the FG con. I made trial campaigns with a few people over the last two weeks or so with the last version of your extension and did not encounter a single problem with it (maybe that is bad news for you because a developer would like to find some things I bet ;)). And I will of course not blame you if it goes down on the event itself to whatever reason :) Nevertheless I am a bit reluctant to use 1.6 for the game and probably wait to test it right after the convention (I do not need the menu though as I "code" the effects myself during game if needed).

Really well done - this was missing so much and sometimes you only recognize missing things in the moment when they are available. And then you don't give them back :)

celestian
October 10th, 2017, 17:44
This extension is really great. Actually I plan to use it on the FG con. I made trial campaigns with a few people over the last two weeks or so with the last version of your extension and did not encounter a single problem with it (maybe that is bad news for you because a developer would like to find some things I bet ;)). And I will of course not blame you if it goes down on the event itself to whatever reason :) Nevertheless I am a bit reluctant to use 1.6 for the game and probably wait to test it right after the convention (I do not need the menu though as I "code" the effects myself during game if needed).

Keep in mind you can just use the default option of "custom" type and make them as you are now. Now, if you're more worried about bugs/etc I get that entirely ;)

It's been really helpful with the racial/class abilities for my AD&D game (where dwarves get +4 ac versus giant type and paladins have aura of protection that gives evil -1 to hit/etc). Course I've been using the character sheet option which I'll release today.

Glad it's working for ya!

celestian
October 10th, 2017, 18:12
As promised.
update: 1.7


Added advanced effects to characters
Cleaned up the code and included files so less work down the road to update for new 5E ruleset revs.


I do have a question for you 5E folks that understand effects. Is it even possible to have a base STR/DEX/etc value as an effect? Say when you get gauntlets of ogre power it's suppose to give 19 flat strength. Can you do that with an effect? I coded around that for my ruleset and am not sure how 5E works.

Also in 5E there are "saves" and "checks" and both use ability scores, does STR: 3; work on both? If not how do you make them different?

I want to update the effect type/menus to be able to deal with these like I do in my own ruleset.

Gwydion
October 10th, 2017, 19:45
Thanks for your work on this! I just tested it for 5e. I added an effect to an NPC and as soon as I dropped them on the combat tracker I received this script error:

Script Error: [string "scripts/manager_effect_adnd.lua"]:330: attempt to call field 'updateNPCEffects' (a nil value)

I don't have any extensions loaded other than a font extension.

celestian
October 10th, 2017, 20:08
Thanks for your work on this! I just tested it for 5e. I added an effect to an NPC and as soon as I dropped them on the combat tracker I received this script error:

Script Error: [string "scripts/manager_effect_adnd.lua"]:330: attempt to call field 'updateNPCEffects' (a nil value)

I don't have any extensions loaded other than a font extension.

Did you download it before I posted the update message here? I ask because I had uploaded a new rev, made a fix(the one you have) and then uploaded the working version and posted the update message. Looks like the current version hasn't been downloaded so I suspect you got me mid-update. Grab the one that is up now, it should work.

Gwydion
October 10th, 2017, 20:11
Excellent. I'll try that. Sorry if I jumped the gun and thanks again for the great work!

Gwydion
October 10th, 2017, 20:14
Looks like that was it. Thanks!

Waldbaer
October 10th, 2017, 20:36
I do have a question for you 5E folks that understand effects. Is it even possible to have a base STR/DEX/etc value as an effect? Say when you get gauntlets of ogre power it's suppose to give 19 flat strength. Can you do that with an effect? I coded around that for my ruleset and am not sure how 5E works.

Also in 5E there are "saves" and "checks" and both use ability scores, does STR: 3; work on both? If not how do you make them different?

I want to update the effect type/menus to be able to deal with these like I do in my own ruleset.

Yes it does. E.G.: "Giant Strenght; STR: 3" would add to the ability, not to the modifier. That means if you have a fighter with 16 strength (he gets a +3 modifier), you would get a +1 Effect add to all saves and checks etc. Because 19 STR would give you a +4 modifier which is +1 more than you had before.

I like how that works very much :)

Waldbaer
October 10th, 2017, 20:38
I just see that I wrote above message quite complicated: I just mean it works and STR: 3 adds to the ability and all saves etc. follow accordingly

astromath
October 10th, 2017, 20:41
That's interesting. Because, according to the Wiki, [STR: 3] adds to the modifier. See http://www.fantasygrounds.com/wiki/index.php/5E_Effects about halfway down the page.

Waldbaer
October 10th, 2017, 20:56
Yes, true. I saw that and that's why I tested it out...it does not add to the modifier. I just tried adding a +5 to a 19 strength and came up with an effect giving me +3 on saves, checks, attack etc. which refers to him having a strength of 24 now (+7 modifier).

Waldbaer
October 10th, 2017, 21:03
And by the way: I always wondered about that because changing the modifier makes no sense. You have enough possibilities to influence saves, attacks, checks etc. directly. That said, it makes much more sense to influence the ability score instead. I think the text might be screwed up or something (last update is a year ago).

Zacchaeus
October 10th, 2017, 22:32
That's interesting. Because, according to the Wiki, [STR: 3] adds to the modifier. See http://www.fantasygrounds.com/wiki/index.php/5E_Effects about halfway down the page.


Yes, true. I saw that and that's why I tested it out...it does not add to the modifier. I just tried adding a +5 to a 19 strength and came up with an effect giving me +3 on saves, checks, attack etc. which refers to him having a strength of 24 now (+7 modifier).

The wiki means that STR is a strength modifier i.e. it modifies strength not the bonus received from strength. It might be clearer in the circumstances if it said 'modifies strength'; but the meaning is clear to me anyway.

celestian
October 10th, 2017, 22:40
Yes it does. E.G.: "Giant Strenght; STR: 3" would add to the ability, not to the modifier. That means if you have a fighter with 16 strength (he gets a +3 modifier), you would get a +1 Effect add to all saves and checks etc. Because 19 STR would give you a +4 modifier which is +1 more than you had before.

I like how that works very much :)

This does answer the check/save question but what about "base strength" setting in effects. Is that possible in 5E ruleset? Base strength means the actual value of the strength, not a modifier or adjusted strength value. So, if I had 12 strength and I wore gauntlets of ogre power (that give you flat 19 strength) how would I make an effect (in 5E ruleset) that would give them 19. Would I just have to know it's STR: 7 or is there a base value that I can set such as BSTR: 19?

Waldbaer
October 10th, 2017, 22:42
This does answer the check/save question but what about "base strength" setting in effects. Is that possible in 5E ruleset? Base strength means the actual value of the strength, not a modifier or adjusted strength value. So, if I had 12 strength and I wore gauntlets of ogre power (that give you flat 19 strength) how would I make an effect (in 5E ruleset) that would give them 19. Would I just have to know it's STR: 7 or is there a base value that I can set such as BSTR: 19?

As far as I have managed it until now: you would have to know the strength to apply the correct add per effect. You cannot have an effect that makes strength 19. It is always like add 5 etc. ...

Hope that answers your question. If someone else knows more please enlighten us - would be nice to learn something :)

Waldbaer
October 10th, 2017, 22:46
Hi Celestial,

I have just used your new 1.7 updated extension and tested around a bit. I made a "Guardian Longsword" that enhances initiative by 2. I gave this to a player unidentified and then I recognized that out of player view it is showing the effect on the weapon sheet. Kills the secret somehow :) Please see attached screenshot - could be something for the next revision...or was this intended?

20968

Moon Wizard
October 10th, 2017, 22:49
@celestian,
There's no effect in 5E to override an ability score, just to modify up or down.

Regards,
JPG

Waldbaer
October 10th, 2017, 23:07
Hi Celestial,

I have just used your new 1.7 updated extension and tested around a bit. I made a "Guardian Longsword" that enhances initiative by 2. I gave this to a player unidentified and then I recognized that out of player view it is showing the effect on the weapon sheet. Kills the secret somehow :) Please see attached screenshot - could be something for the next revision...or was this intended?


or could it be that I see this as a GM only although the picture was from a second instance of the program where I connected as player to the game at localhost?

celestian
October 10th, 2017, 23:13
Hi Celestial,

I have just used your new 1.7 updated extension and tested around a bit. I made a "Guardian Longsword" that enhances initiative by 2. I gave this to a player unidentified and then I recognized that out of player view it is showing the effect on the weapon sheet. Kills the secret somehow :) Please see attached screenshot - could be something for the next revision...or was this intended?

20968

That's on the TODO list. For my ruleset I just made an adjustment to the display code in item_main.lua but I want to do it differently for 5E version extension so... less to do if/when they update the 5E ruleset.

I'll make sure next rev has something for this.

Waldbaer
October 10th, 2017, 23:14
GREAT. Thank you so much celestian.

celestian
October 10th, 2017, 23:21
@celestian,
There's no effect in 5E to override an ability score, just to modify up or down.

Regards,
JPG

Thanks, understood.

Might want to consider adding something like BSTR, BDEX, BINT, BWIS, BCHA, BCON for such a purpose. I also use BAC for base AC (spells/etc). My needs were a little different than for 5E so it was a pretty big project but for 5E it might not be all that difficult.

astromath
October 10th, 2017, 23:45
Here's a question: Is there a way to test for the ability score. Example: If STR is 17, the add 2 to the STR.

Waldbaer
October 10th, 2017, 23:56
No. I dont think so.

Moon Wizard
October 11th, 2017, 00:13
@celestian,

Thought about it a bit over time, just not that many cases in the rules, and current effects can be adjusted fairly easily.

I was thinking it would be MINSTR and MINAC, since the effects are usually that you go up to a number of lower.

JPG

celestian
October 11th, 2017, 06:55
Update 1.9:


Shuffled windows around and used a subwindow so I can better manage visibility of the window in items. Players can no longer see the Advanced Effects setup on a item.
Same for NPCs but not for Character sheets.
Also removed several "gmeditonly" options because of the above.


This I think is a pretty stable version. I'm going to leave it in the wild for a while and if no complaints I'll stop treating this like a beta test and create a proper thread/post for version 2.0.

I still have some ideas (one of them being how to deal with weapons with bonuses to attack/damage you only want to work on that weapon) but for now I'm going to let things shake out.

Waldbaer
October 11th, 2017, 14:36
Thank you celestian for this very fast update. Really great work - I will try it out this evening and report back if I experience any issues.

Gwydion
October 11th, 2017, 14:42
yes!!! Thanks!

knucklehead
October 12th, 2017, 15:21
Might be best to approach ACMIN and <Ability>MIN effects (this fits the wording of the 5E rules with effects like this) something like the way Jeremy Crawford (5E rules overlord) said:

You can only have one AC calculation, and usually you can pick the best one.

So normally it's 10 + AC + (DEX modified by armor limits) + Effect or Conditions modifiers

But you could be getting like 10 + AC + DEX + CON as a particular kind of Barbarian, or 10 + AC + WIS + CHA or something as some kinda OP monk.

OR, you can pick the minimum AC. Kinda like Gauntlets and Belts did in 1e/2e.

So I'd guess you'd just grab the value of MINAC, and if < calculated AC, apply it instead.

I'm assuming AC is always derived from the constant 10, equipped items, and effects, so that would appear to be kinda straightforward.

What I barely started to look into before my head exploded six months ago was that the character has like, zero separation of model and view, and ability scores are more like, just accumulators, which permanently write over whatever was there before.

Like, is any ability on a character just an arbirtary number , and just changing it to some other value through the "AC calculation" above would require then walking back through the character sheet and manually adjusting the ability back down?

That'd probably require testing ability value against the <Ability>MIN xx effect, then modifying a second effect on the item that'd actually apply the difference as a bonus.

But then you'd still have to worry that any time a player got a bonus to that ability, it'd have to remove the effect that raises the character's stat, then determine if it needed to apply a bonus to reach the minimum, then re-apply the appropriate bonus to the stat....

ugh. Going to sleep.

celestian
October 12th, 2017, 18:08
But then you'd still have to worry that any time a player got a bonus to that ability, it'd have to remove the effect that raises the character's stat, then determine if it needed to apply a bonus to reach the minimum, then re-apply the appropriate bonus to the stat....

ugh. Going to sleep.

I prefer "base" as it's less confusing to me... Character has a base 12 strength, gauntlets would give new base of 19. 12 is ignored, 19 is the new base, all adjustments apply to that (up or down).

It's possible to do this, I use it in my ruleset .

In this case the character had 9 strength and the gauntlets (in ad&d they are 18/100) his stregth was adjusted. I put the original value in (9) so they would know their actual strength w/o items.

https://i.imgur.com/WXvGfDK.png

Now how much work that is for 5E ruleset these days? Should be easier since you guys don't have to cope with percentile in 18s also ;)

Thegroo
October 12th, 2017, 20:20
This extension opens new options.
I just made a test with items for traits and features.
20987

Waldbaer
October 12th, 2017, 20:27
Update 1.9:


Shuffled windows around and used a subwindow so I can better manage visibility of the window in items. Players can no longer see the Advanced Effects setup on a item.
Same for NPCs but not for Character sheets.
Also removed several "gmeditonly" options because of the above.


This I think is a pretty stable version. I'm going to leave it in the wild for a while and if no complaints I'll stop treating this like a beta test and create a proper thread/post for version 2.0.

I still have some ideas (one of them being how to deal with weapons with bonuses to attack/damage you only want to work on that weapon) but for now I'm going to let things shake out.

this is really working well for me. I tested everything out as far as I could do it today and received a marvellous "0" errors :) And players no longer can see all those edit options and the same for effects. It's a must have extension out of my view!!!

Well done.

Waldbaer
October 12th, 2017, 20:44
Just said "0" things and than I found something -> if I give an item to a char, the chat states the effect every time and shows all effects the item has also to the player. S. attached screenshot; so it seems it is not completely hidden from them in such a case. It does that wheter I identify, unidentify or HIDE SHOW the item and/or the item effects...

20988

Waldbaer
October 12th, 2017, 20:46
but the hiding works in the combat tracker...that I can approve.

celestian
October 12th, 2017, 21:24
This extension opens new options.
I just made a test with items for traits and features.
20987

So, looking at your SS it seems you are using "Effect Wizard" also. No clue what that does and not sure mine plays nicely with it. There should be no way that this extension would add items to your inventory.


Just said "0" things and than I found something -> if I give an item to a char, the chat states the effect every time and shows all effects the item has also to the player. S. attached screenshot; so it seems it is not completely hidden from them in such a case. It does that wheter I identify, unidentify or HIDE SHOW the item and/or the item effects...

20988

Okay, I'll see what I can do. Thanks for the feedback.

Waldbaer
October 12th, 2017, 21:31
Thank you for working on it!

Thegroo
October 12th, 2017, 23:08
[QUOTE=celestian;359626]So, looking at your SS it seems you are using "Effect Wizard" also. No clue what that does and not sure mine plays nicely with it. There should be no way that this extension would add items to your inventory.

Oh, it's a misunderstanding, i put the items in the inventory by hand.
I could make a library-module with traits- and feature-items. So no need to set them up on every new character or drag from another character.
To activate them i would just have to toggle the equipped flag on my chosen items.

celestian
October 12th, 2017, 23:13
Oh, it's a misunderstanding, i put the items in the inventory by hand.
I could make a library-module with traits- and feature-items. So no need to set them up on every new character or drag from another character.
To activate them i would just have to toggle the equipped flag on my chosen items.

AH! Okay, I didn't get that. I thought you had a problem ;)

You can also put the effects in the "Abilities" tab (below languages) so you don't have to have items. Tho, having them on items allows you to store the effects for other characters.

I guess this leads to another feature I need I guess. Allow drag/drop of effects from the Effects records.

celestian
October 15th, 2017, 07:00
So, looking at your SS it seems you are using "Effect Wizard" also. No clue what that does and not sure mine plays nicely with it. There should be no way that this extension would add items to your inventory.



Okay, I'll see what I can do. Thanks for the feedback.

This is taking longer that I had planned. I found another issue while doing this. Once I've got it sorted I'll post an update... much more complicated than one might think ;(

celestian
October 17th, 2017, 00:05
Update 1.9.2


Captured events to manage permissions to data nodes. Resolves some issues where players couldn't manage their item/effects properly.
Corrected some display of effects added/removed depending on permissions/identification.


These fixes were more complicated than I first thought it would be. The event capture for owner/holder permissions was new area.

Keep in mind the display of the effects removed will be based on state of the item at the time... So if you hide something after they applied the effect they will see the remove text but not if they re-add and then remove it moving forward.

Waldbaer
October 17th, 2017, 20:07
Another thank you for the work!

celestian
October 19th, 2017, 20:57
Update 1.9.5

Action Only effects added. You can now set an effect as a "actiononly" type. It will ONLY be used when that item is used for the attack/damage.

Please try this out with all the wacky stuff you have. I've run my own tests and everything seems to function as expected. Let me know if something doesn't work like you'd expect it too.

I was able to use the simple stuff as well as a IFT looking for creature type "giant" and it would only do extra damage to that type with only that weapon.

Here is sample of what it looks like.

https://i.imgur.com/QzwZaqx.png

Waldbaer
October 19th, 2017, 21:20
Thank you. I'll try this out!

Waldbaer
October 19th, 2017, 21:22
Hi Celestian -- actually the link to the extension has moved into the void :) Please check.

celestian
October 19th, 2017, 21:31
Hi Celestian -- actually the link to the extension has moved into the void :) Please check.

Woops! Sorry I selected the file but didnt hit that "upload" follow up. Should be there now.

Waldbaer
October 19th, 2017, 21:45
YES - did the trick. Thanks again.

Thegroo
October 20th, 2017, 01:35
Wow, that's just great

urkas
October 20th, 2017, 17:51
I am trying to add a Str effect to a weapon.

Each Combat -- its gives 1d4 to Str and last 2d4 Rounds

Really what I want is to be able to Have Charges and the player can use this ability X-Times per day -- But not sure if that is possible.

celestian
October 20th, 2017, 18:00
I am trying to add a Str effect to a weapon.

Each Combat -- its gives 1d4 to Str and last 2d4 Rounds

Really what I want is to be able to Have Charges and the player can use this ability X-Times per day -- But not sure if that is possible.

The duration will be applied when the item is equipped. Other than that I think it should work if 5E STR effect supports STR: 1d4;.

Charges are a "powers" thing and you can do it but it will be manual. Setup a daily X charge item and will be reset after a long rest. That's a bit beyond the scope of the extension tho.

urkas
October 20th, 2017, 18:11
Thanks a bit beyond me trying to get it to work haha

I tried to add it on the Character but cant seem to get it to work. Thanks again

celestian
October 20th, 2017, 18:20
Thanks a bit beyond me trying to get it to work haha

I tried to add it on the Character but cant seem to get it to work. Thanks again

I did some testing locally and I'm not sure 5E supports dice rolls for abilities. I could be wrong, 5E isn't my game, so you might have to settle for static value there.

Waldbaer
October 20th, 2017, 20:04
Other than that I think it should work if 5E STR effect supports STR: 1d4;.


it does not ... just to let you know :) only a number is working, no dice...

Wargrim Deephelm
October 21st, 2017, 00:57
I had some issues with the extension using the 5e rule set today. When trying to apply conditions to the combat tracker from the effects tab & when trying to apply an effect from an NPC in the combat tracker, I get a script error. Thank you for the time and effort that you put into this much needed project!

Script Error: [string "scripts/manager_effect_adnd.lua"]:841: attempt to call global 'message' (a nil value)
Script Error: [string "scripts/manager_effect_adnd.lua"]:878: attempt to call global 'isGMEffect' (a nil value)

celestian
October 21st, 2017, 01:36
I had some issues with the extension using the 5e rule set today. When trying to apply conditions to the combat tracker from the effects tab & when trying to apply an effect from an NPC in the combat tracker, I get a script error. Thank you for the time and effort that you put into this much needed project!

Script Error: [string "scripts/manager_effect_adnd.lua"]:841: attempt to call global 'message' (a nil value)
Script Error: [string "scripts/manager_effect_adnd.lua"]:878: attempt to call global 'isGMEffect' (a nil value)

Not entirely sure what you're trying but I did find a issue in the areas you mentioned. This was a last minute add to work around a bug I found in addEffects(). Hopefully will be resolved in next rev of CoreRPG and I can remove it. For now I've fixed what I think is the problem there.

After that I added a effect to a NPC, manually in the CT and with the fixes I didn't get an error.... assuming that's the problem you are having this should correct it.

I'll update the first post with version 1.9.6 with this bug fix.

Wargrim Deephelm
October 21st, 2017, 01:53
Thanks, works great now!

Zeruel_Kagenie
October 21st, 2017, 19:55
I have an problem with this extension activate with the 5e ruleset. When i create a power effect or a spell effect (not a item or Advanced Effects) with the duration of 0 rounds, Targeting (Self or Targets) and the Expend (next action or On next roll) the effect does not disappear automatically after the condition is fulfilled.

For example if I want to create the effect of Sneak Attack, DMG: 3d6 piercing for the next roll ... the effect stays in the combat tracker and forces the player to remove the effect manually.

celestian
October 21st, 2017, 22:01
I have an problem with this extension activate with the 5e ruleset. When i create a power effect or a spell effect (not a item or Advanced Effects) with the duration of 0 rounds, Targeting (Self or Targets) and the Expend (next action or On next roll) the effect does not disappear automatically after the condition is fulfilled.

For example if I want to create the effect of Sneak Attack, DMG: 3d6 piercing for the next roll ... the effect stays in the combat tracker and forces the player to remove the effect manually.

Thanks for the report. Found and fixed. Also found an issue related to random durations when using rounds, fixed also.

The new rev 1.9.7 should resolve your problem.

celestian
October 25th, 2017, 20:13
Anyone found any other outstanding issues? If not I'll do some clean up (debug code) and start a new post with the first "release" version with 2.0.

Waldbaer
October 25th, 2017, 20:18
Anyone found any other outstanding issues? If not I'll do some clean up (debug code) and start a new post with the first "release" version with 2.0.

Nope - looks good to me so far. I will have larger and longer games on Saturday and Monday...but until now I don't see issues so far.

PTBBC.ORG
October 27th, 2017, 06:07
This is great and am going to use it so much for random objects that players usually just shove in their backpack. Cursed items that don't need attunement... But, I am having a problem. I have added an effect to an NPC, but when I put the NPC into the CT it doesn't show the effect.2117821179

I am sure it is something simple I have just missed.

celestian
October 27th, 2017, 06:23
I tried the same effect string you had and it appeared to work fine for me.

https://i.imgur.com/3PT1m0m.png

Are you trying this w/o any other extensions loaded?

PTBBC.ORG
October 27th, 2017, 08:02
Yes, several extensions. All of them updated. Can I not have others open while this one is open? I will try it with all of the other extensions closed and see what happens tomorrow.

celestian
October 27th, 2017, 08:14
Yes, several extensions. All of them updated. Can I not have others open while this one is open? I will try it with all of the other extensions closed and see what happens tomorrow.

It depends on what each of them do. I do my best to limit the scope of what the extension uses... only to what it needs. Other things might also be needing the same things and over riding some functions I've changed.

Anything effects or combat tracker related could possibly depending on what they do.

PTBBC.ORG
October 27th, 2017, 08:26
Ok, that's cool. I will work on that. I bet I know what it is already now that I think of it. I have that CT Ext. But I will remove them all first, and start adding one at a time until it does not work and get the results to you when I can. Thanks for the responses!

Willot
October 27th, 2017, 12:22
Seem to be having a problem. The effect do not seem to be doing anything. They apply to the PC fine and their switched on, but nothing happens when the applicable action occurs?
If I cut n Paste the effect line into a new line (so its not applied by Advanced Effects Extension) it works fine? Anyone else seen this?

celestian
October 27th, 2017, 19:09
Seem to be having a problem. The effect do not seem to be doing anything. They apply to the PC fine and their switched on, but nothing happens when the applicable action occurs?
If I cut n Paste the effect line into a new line (so its not applied by Advanced Effects Extension) it works fine? Anyone else seen this?

When you cut/paste the effect and re-add it is active for everything, not just on attack/damage.

I would suggest trying w/o any extensions first other than this one to make sure it's not a conflict with another one.

If you can give me a detailed example of the options and effect string you use I'll see if I can replicate the problem. Also explain what you are wanting the effect to actually do.

Willot
October 27th, 2017, 22:29
Its seems that my FG copy doesnt like effects added to a PC by anything that is not Human.
If I remove the "Applied by.." dialog, the effect works
see images

Applying damage with dialog in place
21194
Applying the damge after removing the dialog (by clicking on it)
21195

It may be a FG problem of somesort...
Ill keep playing with it

No other extensions are in operation

celestian
October 27th, 2017, 23:06
Its seems that my FG copy doesnt like effects added to a PC by anything that is not Human.
If I remove the "Applied by.." dialog, the effect works
see images

Applying damage with dialog in place
21194
Applying the damge after removing the dialog (by clicking on it)
21195

It may be a FG problem of somesort...
Ill keep playing with it

No other extensions are in operation

Found bug and fixed. Was a bit of a mix up in the if/elseif's resolving actiononly versus not actiononly (which you were using). 2.0 will have this fix and I'll try post it tonight.

Please direct discussions to the other new thread (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?40833-5E-Advanced-Effects-(items-npcs-characters)). This morphed into more than just "item effects" so the subject was a bit misleading and also this was more a test thread than anything.

Thanks for your help debugging!

Willot
October 27th, 2017, 23:31
Cool

PTBBC.ORG
October 28th, 2017, 05:05
It depends on what each of them do. I do my best to limit the scope of what the extension uses... only to what it needs. Other things might also be needing the same things and over riding some functions I've changed.

Anything effects or combat tracker related could possibly depending on what they do.

I was not able to test this out until now. Stranger Things 2, broken ankle... typical things kept this testing at bay, but I figured out what was causing the issue. The Old-School Init extension. With it turned off your extension works fine for NPC's. Now to just figure out how to have both work at the same time....

Elderith
June 3rd, 2018, 01:51
I was just grating an item that is similar to the sword of life stealing and I was wondering if I could use this to make this semi-automated?

"When you attack a creature with this magic weapon and roll a 20 on the attack roll, that target takes an extra 2d6 necrotic damage, provided that the target isn't a construct or an undead. You gain temporary hit points equal to the extra damage dealt."

celestian
June 3rd, 2018, 05:32
I was just grating an item that is similar to the sword of life stealing and I was wondering if I could use this to make this semi-automated?

"When you attack a creature with this magic weapon and roll a 20 on the attack roll, that target takes an extra 2d6 necrotic damage, provided that the target isn't a construct or an undead. You gain temporary hit points equal to the extra damage dealt."

Effects aren't triggered by specific value rolled to hit.

Also, The new version of the extension and thread is here. (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?40833-5E-Advanced-Effects-(items-npcs-characters))

Zacchaeus
June 3rd, 2018, 10:07
I was just grating an item that is similar to the sword of life stealing and I was wondering if I could use this to make this semi-automated?

"When you attack a creature with this magic weapon and roll a 20 on the attack roll, that target takes an extra 2d6 necrotic damage, provided that the target isn't a construct or an undead. You gain temporary hit points equal to the extra damage dealt."

Create an effect and place it on the person with the sword. IFT:TYPE (humanoid, beast etc); DMG: 2d6 necrotic, critical. The downside is that if they use different weapons they’ll have to continually add or remove the effect since it can’t be confined to just the one weapon. Nothing that can be done to automate the temp hp satisfactorily.

celestian
June 3rd, 2018, 23:23
Create an effect and place it on the person with the sword. IFT:TYPE (humanoid, beast etc); DMG: 2d6 necrotic, critical. The downside is that if they use different weapons they’ll have to continually add or remove the effect since it can’t be confined to just the one weapon. Nothing that can be done to automate the temp hp satisfactorily.

"DMG: 2d6 necrotic,crit" only fires when you crit?

Zacchaeus
June 3rd, 2018, 23:28
"DMG: 2d6 necrotic,crit" only fires when you crit?

Indeed. Technically this could give an incorrect result if the character had an extended crit range. The actual effect in this case should only fire on a natural 20, but generally it won't make a huge difference.

celestian
June 3rd, 2018, 23:47
Indeed. Technically this could give an incorrect result if the character had an extended crit range. The actual effect in this case should only fire on a natural 20, but generally it won't make a huge difference.

Hum, I've tried it placing "IFT:TYPE(orc);DMG: 4d3 necrotic,crit" on the PC and it's not triggering for me. I get the double the dice for crit damage on the "Orc" but not for the extra dmg.

I also tried just "DMG: 4d3 necrotic,crit" and still nothing.

I'm trying this w/o modules so I'm sure I'm missing something.

Zacchaeus
June 4th, 2018, 00:00
It is critical not crit

celestian
June 4th, 2018, 00:14
It is critical not crit

Heh, I shoulda tried that.

Okay, so if the user sets the weapon effect using Advanced Effects as "action-only" then it will only work for the weapon the effect is on. So no need to worry about other weapons getting the extra necrotic damage when they critical.

First weapon doesn't have the effect on it, the great sword does.

https://i.imgur.com/bFXxDrs.png

Thinks for pointing out this feature. I had no idea effects did this ;)

This does get me thinking how simple it would probably be to add something like "HIT:15" and then look for that on ActionDamage and apply that effect so it could be any value.

No time to look at it right now tho.

Zacchaeus
June 4th, 2018, 00:21
Nice.

xxXEliteXxx
December 1st, 2018, 21:16
Would it be possible to have the effect apply to the target of the attack, similar to how spell targeting works?

Zacchaeus
December 1st, 2018, 21:56
Would it be possible to have the effect apply to the target of the attack, similar to how spell targeting works?

Can you give us an example of what you mean? I'm not sure I understand the question.

celestian
December 2nd, 2018, 07:47
Would it be possible to have the effect apply to the target of the attack, similar to how spell targeting works?

If you mean what I think you mean you can't have an effect apply an effect.

xxXEliteXxx
December 3rd, 2018, 02:23
I mean: would it be possible to have an item that would apply an effect to the target of an attack from that item/weapon? For example, a sword that causes ongoing damage to the target.

Kind of similar to how player spells/powers have 'self' and 'target' as the targeting options (as it currently stands, it's only possible for an item to apply an effect to the wielder of that item).

celestian
December 3rd, 2018, 02:44
I mean: would it be possible to have an item that would apply an effect to the target of an attack from that item/weapon? For example, a sword that causes ongoing damage to the target.

Kind of similar to how player spells/powers have 'self' and 'target' as the targeting options (as it currently stands, it's only possible for an item to apply an effect to the wielder of that item).

Since the item is used by a player and the player can have the power in their combat tab it would be the same. Either that or I just don't know what you're trying to say.

xxXEliteXxx
December 3rd, 2018, 02:48
Yeah, I guess it would be the same, but it would be nice if it could be automated. It can get annoying having to manually apply the effect to your target every time you attack them.

Isn't that a major part of this extension; Not having to manually apply an effect each time you equip/use an item?

celestian
December 3rd, 2018, 03:09
Yeah, I guess it would be the same, but it would be nice if it could be automated. It can get annoying having to manually apply the effect to your target every time you attack them.

I'll keep the idea in mind tho it's a little outside of the direction I was looking at with AdvancedEffects.

You'd have to write a check for when damage is rolled against a target that will scan the actions on the item and find ones that should be "applied on damage" then apply it to the target.

There are a few ways that it could cause problems or would require manual intervention tho it does seem doable.

LordEntrails
December 3rd, 2018, 05:59
Does "DMGO" effects work?

celestian
December 3rd, 2018, 08:39
Does "DMGO" effects work?

He can certainly place that on the target yes. I got the impression he wanted to do that every round (maybe it's like an sword of wounding that has a stacking ongoing damage).

It wouldn't help to place it on the weapon tho. That would imply you want to apply it on the target like a "DMG: 1d6" (which does work) I just do not automate placing effects on a target.

xxXEliteXxx
December 3rd, 2018, 18:57
The ongoing damage was just an example. Another example would be: a dagger that imposes the poisoned status effect on its targets. Or a slick war hammer that coats your enemies in a combustible oil when striking them, giving them vulnerability to fire damage for 1 round.

Drogo210
March 7th, 2019, 15:46
Hi,

Would it be possible adding it to item templates as well?

JBagky
April 12th, 2019, 23:21
I don't know if there is anything on here, but how could you or can you code it to give the target -1 AC for the next roll? I have an effect that I made that the player can drop onto the target, but was just trying to add it to the weapon that I made them. Basically, they hit the target and the next attack roll against the same target has a +1 to hit. If its not possible or anything, let me know. Thanks for the great extension.

celestian
April 13th, 2019, 01:52
I don't know if there is anything on here, but how could you or can you code it to give the target -1 AC for the next roll? I have an effect that I made that the player can drop onto the target, but was just trying to add it to the weapon that I made them. Basically, they hit the target and the next attack roll against the same target has a +1 to hit. If its not possible or anything, let me know. Thanks for the great extension.

If I understand the use case you are asking for...Effects cannot add effects at this time.

JBagky
April 13th, 2019, 04:12
Ok, thanks.