Version 3.3.2 Update: Backwards compatibility with Player Effects Removal.

[Carlos]

Great update with 3.3.2!

What would *really* have been clever would have been to keep backwards compatibility with the immensely popular Player Effects Removal extension, and support "REMOVE: <effect>" as a way to remove the effects from the player on the tracker.

It is very very helpful not to have to click through the combat tracker to remove an effect, instead you can use your character sheet to remove the effect.

Was any consideration given to maintaining backwards compatibility with the "REMOVE: <effect>" method of removing effects?

[Carlos]

... and it would be nice if you could have multiple of the same effect on at a time.

[Zacchaeus]

... and it would be nice if you could have multiple of the same effect on at a time.

Why? You can only benefit from one effect that does the same thing at a time. You can't have multiple Bless spells or multiple poisons on you.

[Moon Wizard]

Unfortunately, we are unable to test and verify that every community extension will work with new versions of the software. We have our hands full with maintaining the 700+ DLC products currently available with the official versions. We provide lots of leads time (usually 6-8 weeks) for community extension developers to be aware of upcoming releases, but ultimately it's up to the community.

We did build in new features that handle the majority of the needs originally handled by this extension, though we've heard over the last couple days that there are definitely people who would like a button-like removal option in-line with each effect.

Thanks,
JPG

[Nickademus]

I have a working version of the extension for FG 3.2.2. It is currently being tested as a couple players experienced something weird during its use Tuesday which I cannot recreate. I am communicating with Trenloe to get it out to the community once it is deemed safe.

[Carlos]

Why? You can only benefit from one effect that does the same thing at a time. You can't have multiple Bless spells or multiple poisons on you.

In 3.5E, and Pathfinder you can have multiple bless spells of the same duration cast on a person (FG2 does allow different duration effects to be active), and in fact you *must* track multiple spells for the purposes of dispelling, you cannot coalesce them into one spell or you will loose track of which ones can be dispelled based on level.

Does that clarify the requirement to allow multiple similar effects?

[Carlos]

Unfortunately, we are unable to test and verify that every community extension will work with new versions of the software. We have our hands full with maintaining the 700+ DLC products currently available with the official versions. We provide lots of leads time (usually 6-8 weeks) for community extension developers to be aware of upcoming releases, but ultimately it's up to the community.

We did build in new features that handle the majority of the needs originally handled by this extension, though we've heard over the last couple days that there are definitely people who would like a button-like removal option in-line with each effect.

Thanks,
JPG

Moon Wizard,

I am incredibly appreciative of the work being done by SmiteWorks and I would certainly not expect you to carry out testing with community extensions.

However, if you claim to add a feature, like player effect removal (which is an awesome and very important feature), I can and will hold you to the standard by which the community has grown accustomed to, namely the Player Effects Removal extension (RemoteEffectTag.ext). In that extension you can remove effects from your character sheet without having to drudge through a potentially large CT.

As you have heard already (thanks for indicating that other players have provided similar feedback), particularly for target self effects a removal button would be excellent, and that's what I'm arguing in this post. All of my players have their character sheet open to their actions during combat, and it's one click to remove an effect (we even use them to track things like readied actions or held weapons). While using the CT requires at least two clicks, at worst it becomes: find the CT (or open it), then a scroll, see effects (click), and two more clicks to remove.

The Player Effects Removal extension had already brought us to a minimal number of clicks to remove an effect, even if it was just a side-effect of the implementation :-)

[Zacchaeus]

In 3.5E, and Pathfinder you can have multiple bless spells of the same duration cast on a person (FG2 does allow different duration effects to be active), and in fact you *must* track multiple spells for the purposes of dispelling, you cannot coalesce them into one spell or you will loose track of which ones can be dispelled based on level.

Does that clarify the requirement to allow multiple similar effects?

Yes, sorry. I wasn't thinking beyond 5e and I wasn't aware that you could have multiples of the same effect on you in 3.5.

[Nickademus]

I actually had a section of code with the REMOVE code that allowed you to STACK effects in the PF ruleset. I also had a chunk that allowed multiple identical effects to be added. The code was left out when the REMOVE code was extracted and repackaged.

[Carlos]

I actually had a section of code with the REMOVE code that allowed you to STACK effects in the PF ruleset. I also had a chunk that allowed multiple identical effects to be added. The code was left out when the REMOVE code was extracted and repackaged.

... is this the point you tell us you're going to put it back? Because that would be awesome ;-)

[Moon Wizard]

Wouldn't there be an issue where multiple effects applied from the same spell would incorrectly double up on the effects?

Just curious what kind of multiple effects you are applying?

Thanks,
JPG

[LordEntrails]

Depends on the spell right? Something like sleep or paralyze can't double up. But a dispel would only affect one of the instances of the spell effect that someone is under. Would have to be careful with something like mage armor or another buff because those don't stack, but the same concern for duration or dispel would be valid (imo).

[Nickademus]

... is this the point you tell us you're going to put it back? Because that would be awesome ;-)
I could, in theory. I actually don't tend the Remove Effects extension; Trenloe does. Though he may be dropping it in which case I would pick it back up.

In reality, he chose not to include the STACK code when he extracted the REMOVE code from my original extension. I'm not sure why, but if there is a good reason then I probably wouldn't splice the STACK and MULTI tags back into the PF version.


Wouldn't there be an issue where multiple effects applied from the same spell would incorrectly double up on the effects?

Just curious what kind of multiple effects you are applying?

Thanks,
JPG
I'm sure there is always cases that will cause problems, but I believe the stacking rules that FG enforces would take care of some of that. Otherwise, the stacking might be intentional.

In a nutshell, here is how they work:
REMOVE:
FG searches the target for the effect following the colon and removes it.

STACK:
FG searches the target for the effect following the colon with a number in front of it. If it doesn't find it, FG adds the effect with a '1 ' in front. If it does find it, FG removes the effect, adds 1 to the number and adds the effect preceded by the new number. For example, "STACK: Mirror image" would at first add the effect '1 Mirror image'. Clicking again would remove that effect and add the effect '2 Mirror image', and so on.

The REMOVE tag, when used as 'REMOVE: STACK:', would do the opposite, decreasing the preceding number by one or removing the effect if only '1' was found.

MULTI:
FG searches the target for the effect following the colon with a number and semicolon in front of it. If it doesn't find it, FG adds the effect with a '1; ' in front. If it does find it, FG adds 1 to the number and adds the effect again this time preceded by the new number and a semicolon. For example, say an ability gave a +1 bonus to attack rolls for every enemy within 5'. The effect "MULTI: ATK: 1" could be used to do this by clicking it number of times equal to the enemies. The first would add "1; ATK: 1", the second click would add "2; ATK: 1", the third click would add "3; ATK: 1", and so on. All the bonuses would stack and apply to the attack roll.

This was mostly designed for stacking modifiers from the same source that would expend on roll. The REMOVE tag couldn't remove these due to complications not worth working through.

[Nickademus]

Depends on the spell right? Something like sleep or paralyze can't double up. But a dispel would only affect one of the instances of the spell effect that someone is under. Would have to be careful with something like mage armor or another buff because those don't stack, but the same concern for duration or dispel would be valid (imo).

We are talking about the 3.5e/PF ruleset (5e ruleset allows multiple similar effects already), in which mage armor adds 'AC: 4 armor' which is an armor bonus and wouldn't stack with itself. PF is good about typing almost all the bonuses so that stacking is dealt with internally.

[Trenloe]

In reality, he chose not to include the STACK code when he extracted the REMOVE code from my original extension. I'm not sure why...
Because I was creating a remove effects extension, nothing else - the goal was to keep it as small as possible to ease maintenance and so I didn't include any non-remove code.

[Nickademus]

I figured as much. (Though I do feel the need to point out there was REMOVE STACK code in there.) :P

[Nickademus]

Okay, I whipped up a version of the PF Remove Effect extension that has all three of the tags (REMOVE, STACK, and MULTI). It is updated to FG v.3.3.2 and uses my new extension format to be resilient to future updates. Here's a screenshot of it in action.
20641
I will talk to Trenloe about releasing this to the public. Don't want to step on any toes.

[Bidmaron]

Nickademus, you are awesome!

[Nickademus]

And it's up (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?40290-PF-Player-Effect-Removal-Extension&p=356036#post356036).