Showing NPC's without Combat Tracker?

[Famine]

I'm a Roll20 DM and I just came to Fantasy Grounds. Everything seems great, but I'm a bit confused on showing and hiding NPC's as well accessing their NPC information when the NPC is not in the combat tracker. Can you not simply show and hide a NPC that is in the encounter without tossing them in the combat tracker?

I'm confused mostly because I understand I can show and hide a NPC in the combat tracker, but it's called a "Combat" tracker in the sense the NPC is entering combat. Then if I just drag and drop a NPC from the DM Monster reference, I get a token I can show and hide, but I can't access the details of the monster. Thus, it seems it must be in an encounter, which brings me back to the first problem.

[LordEntrails]

Yep. Sort of.

First thing to think of that is different from Roll20 is that tokens are really the end of the line. Think that instead of tokens holding NPC info, NPC's hold tokens.

Tokens dragged onto a map don't have that link unless they are dragged from the Combat Tracker.

So, typically the way people use things is that they have a map and a bunch of story entries. The maps hold pins (links) to the various story entries for each location (room). Each story entry holds a bunch of info, much like the entry in an adventure. This will include DM info, boxed text, and links to encounters (or NPCs), Treasure Parcels (or items), map(s), and other story entries.

Encounters can contain multiple NPC's and can be pre-placed on a map. Then when that encounter happens, you can automatically add the NPCs to the CT and the map at the same time (and the token on the map is linked to the CT entry). Also note, just because it's called the Combat TRacker, doesn't mean it can't hold allies and neutrals as well (not the ability to change from friendly, neutral, enemy).

Does that help?

[Nickademus]

If you are talking about a token on the battlemap, you can right-click on the token to bring up the radial menu. The northwest option I believe is the visibility sub-menu where you can set the token to always be visible or invisible as well as have the token visibility based on if it is under the mask or not. To hide an NPC that isn't in the CT, just make the token always invisible.

As for accessing their character sheet, I think the data has to be in the combat tracker for this. Though you may be able to drag the link to the NPC directly to the battlemap to create a DM-only pin that you can click to bring the NPC sheet up. You can also drag the NPC to a hotbar so that you can click to open the sheet.

[Famine]

Yeah, so basically, put everything into combat tracker that is going to interact or be visible to the players.

[LordEntrails]

Basically, except if you are using furniture or spell effect tokens. And if you are, then consider using the Enhanced Layers Extension.

[Zacchaeus]

Provided the token is on the CT you can double click a token on the map to bring up it's character or NPC sheet. As noted above though all functionality in FG comes from having the PCs and NPCs on the CT. You can alos make NPCs friendly or neutral in an encounter so that they are placed as such on the CT/map when activated. AS LE says not every NPC needs to necessarily be hostile that's on the CT although 99% of them will be.

[BrettM]

@Famine -- I'm coming from Roll20 as well -- did you come up with a solution to this that didn't involve adding everything to the CT to see the tokens?

(I posted a similar question here (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?46184-Help-Thoughts-on-using-the-battlemaps-to-quot-see-quot-encounters-coming-up-as-a-GM&p=410909&viewfull=1#post410909), as I'm used to seeing all the NPCs as "hidden" on the map, whether they are in combat or not, to see 'what's coming', but open to other ideas as well.)

[esmdev]

You can setup an encounter for a room, place unlinked tokens in the same place that you plan the encounters to place the tokens, remove the tokens when they are of no use and the encounter is about to trigger, and then place the tokens from the encounter.

It's a bunch of extra steps but it would essentially cover what you are trying to do.

I think an easier way would be to just place a pin link that says Bugbears be here! or something. :)

[Zacchaeus]

@Famine -- I'm coming from Roll20 as well -- did you come up with a solution to this that didn't involve adding everything to the CT to see the tokens?

(I posted a similar question here (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?46184-Help-Thoughts-on-using-the-battlemaps-to-quot-see-quot-encounters-coming-up-as-a-GM&p=410909&viewfull=1#post410909), as I'm used to seeing all the NPCs as "hidden" on the map, whether they are in combat or not, to see 'what's coming', but open to other ideas as well.)

As explained above Roll20 and FG treat things a little differently. In Roll20 everything is invested in the token whereas in FG the token is just a placeholder showing where the NPC is on the map; it has no other functionality other than that. So in order to show/hide/attack or whatever with an NPC it has to be on the combat tracker. Even if this is simply an NPC who you want the players to interact with other than combat you need to place that NPC on the combat tracker if you want to automate saving throws or something like that.

Also in Roll20 you would place all of the 'tokens' onto the map ahead of time; revealing them only when the PCs can 'see' them. In FG you create 'encounters' where you add the NPCs to an encounter, place those NPCs on the map in the desired postion and then close the encounter (usually you would then link that encounter to a story entry for easy retrieval). Then when the PCs can see those NPCs you place the encounter on the CT and on the map. At this point the NPCs are hidden until revealed by the DM.

More information of encounters here (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/wiki/index.php/Encounters).

[BrettM]

Thanks Zacchaeus. As I just posted in the thread I started, I’m starting to understand the difference between Roll20 and FG on this. I didn’t expect FG to work exactly like Roll20... in the fact the reason for the move to FG is I feel it has more to offer than Roll20, so I’m trying to take my Roll20 methods and ‘convert’ them best to how FG works.

I’ll check out the link you provided.

Your point below is key. I understand the NPCs are hidden until revealed by the DM. For the players this is what I’m used to. For me, I’m used to seeing the NPCs. But again, that’s just the way I know... but that doesn’t mean I can’t find a different way!

Thanks again!



At this point the NPCs are hidden until revealed by the DM.

[Trenloe]

I understand the NPCs are hidden until revealed by the DM. For the players this is what I’m used to. For me, I’m used to seeing the NPCs.
As the GM you will see the NPCs once they've been added to the CT/map as part of using the encounter (arrow button at the bottom of the encounter window) - they're hidden from the players, but the GM sees them in the CT and the linked token on the map - move the tokens, set them up where you want them to be, and then make them visible to the players when necessary.

[GavinRuneblade]

Thanks Zacchaeus. As I just posted in the thread I started, I’m starting to understand the difference between Roll20 and FG on this. I didn’t expect FG to work exactly like Roll20... in the fact the reason for the move to FG is I feel it has more to offer than Roll20, so I’m trying to take my Roll20 methods and ‘convert’ them best to how FG works.

I’ll check out the link you provided.

Your point below is key. I understand the NPCs are hidden until revealed by the DM. For the players this is what I’m used to. For me, I’m used to seeing the NPCs. But again, that’s just the way I know... but that doesn’t mean I can’t find a different way!

Thanks again!

When I came over from roll20, the advice that LordEntrails gave was the key for me figuring it out. Tokens are just icons, not the whole NPC. That took me a while to get used to.

One organizational thing I do, outside the map, to have access to all the NPC data that is on a Roll20 token, is I make a group for relevant NPCs and drag and drop them into it. This way I can have a single, easy spot to scan for all their types, I can add reinforcements if needed, I can quickly remind myself of an important name or passive perception number, etc.

[Andraax]

I drop my encounters onto the map as pins. Then, I can hover the mouse over them to get a reminder of what they are if needed. When I'm ready for the encounter, it's right there, click to bring it up, click the down arrow to add to the CT / map.

[LordEntrails]

When I came over from roll20, the advice that LordEntrails gave was the key for me figuring it out. Tokens are just icons, not the whole NPC. That took me a while to get used to.
What? Huh? You mean I gave someone good advice?

Nice to hear :)

[BrettM]

I make a group for relevant NPCs and drag and drop them into it.

Can you provide an example, or screenshot of this? I'm trying to picture what you mean by making a "group" of NPCs. Thanks!

[GavinRuneblade]

Can you provide an example, or screenshot of this? I'm trying to picture what you mean by making a "group" of NPCs. Thanks!
Start by clicking the "NPC" icon in the far right column of your User Interface, then click the red slash to open the edit field and it will look like this:
25043

I name all my groups starting with zero-zero "00" because the list is alphabetical and it includes every npc group from every product you have loaded. The MM, the DMG, and the PHB all have some, plus your adventure so rather than scroll through the annoying mess of them I put mine at the top. All and New will always be there. If you see the red vertical lines that's how to delete a whole category, the green plus is to add a new group. It always appears with the name "group N+1" where N starts at zero. So if you make one it is group 1, the second is group 2, etc. Your new group is not selected so you have to scroll down to it, select it, rename it. Then you can just drag NPCs into it or make new ones directly in it manually.


This group I have titled "00 Allies" and it has a small selection of the NPCs my party interacts with regularly. You can also see I have 00 Cult of the Dragon because we are playing through the Tiamat adventures and there are enemies in 7 different products, so I put them all in one easy place so I don't need to flip through Hoard of the Dragon Queen, Cult of the Dragon, Monster Manual, Versatile NPCs, Volo's Guide to Monsters, etc. They are all in one list for me. I can drag right from here to the combat tracker, or just pop one up and look at the stats for a non-combat encounter.

Some in this group (Allies) are dragged from adventures, Bruldenthar is from Princes of the Apocalypse, Lerustah is from the Rise of Tiamat. It is small so you might not be able to see it, but I gave Lerustah a custom token because in the adventure his is only the letter "C" for captain. All his stats are there in the window that opens when I click is name on the list. Both were used as allies so I put them into that category.

Currland was a unique NPC I pulled out of thin air when the players decided they wanted to stop a random caravan on a road and talk to them. I have him up because it is showing the second tab on the NPC window which you can use to take notes. Syvalitham is the companion of one of my PCs, I just dragged the silver wyrmling from the monster manual then went to the second tab and added my own notes at the top. You can see that even formatting and linking to pictures is possible in these NPC notes. So you can make notes on any NPC not just your own.


I also use these groups when I find a DM's Guild product I like that is only a PDF, or is for older editions of DND and I build out all the NPCs for my use in game here within a custom group.

[Trenloe]

Using groups are a good way or organizing any of your data in FG.

Another thing you can consider, in terms of organizing for your session - grouping NPCs for the current adventure chapter, etc. in one place - create an "NPC Links" or similarly named story entry, and then drag/drop the links from the NPC records you want to have quickly available to the story entry. This will automatically add a named link to the NPC in the story entry. Do this for all of the NPCs and you'll have a list of NPC links ready to go.

Then... drag/drop the link for the story entry to a hotkey at the bottom of the FG desktop. This will allow you to quickly access this list of NPCs with the click of the hotkey or pres of the relevant key.

[BrettM]

Thanks GavinRuneblade and Trenloe.

I'm also picking up some good tips from this FG College playlist --> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzjJyt4w-pw3Mo9-txap7zOXDEtEeL3IU .

I've watched a number of FG videos over the past few weeks preparing for the Roll20 -> FG switch (our gang was on a 4+ week break due to various RL items), but somehow missed FG College.

[Aximes]

So. There is absolutely no way to place NPC Tokens without adding them to the CT?

I have the following situation here... My new campaign starts, when the group is about to be executed... So my group is there, the guards are there and some citizens are there to watch the "show"... But some rebels interupt the execution. A small battle breaks out... So... There 3 Groups now... My Players, The Guards and the rebels... These are 3 fighting groups... But I've got another group there. These are just the citizens, just standing there... Or... Start running away, when the attack starts... But they won't fight... So I don't need them in the combat tracker... But I want to show them, because they are relevant, because the citizens are also an obstacle in the case they want to flee.

Can someone help me with this? Never had such a situation before.

[Trenloe]

Welcome to the FG forums!


But I've got another group there. These are just the citizens, just standing there... Or... Start running away, when the attack starts... But they won't fight... So I don't need them in the combat tracker... But I want to show them, because they are relevant, because the citizens are also an obstacle in the case they want to flee.
Just place a graphical token on the map directly from the token window.

If you're coming from Roll20, don't think of a "token" as a complete set of data relating to a NPC/creature - in Fantasy Grounds a token is a graphical object that you place on the map. If you place it directly from the token folder then it is not linked to any data, if you place it from the combat tracker, then the token will be linked to the NPC/PC data of that combat tracker record.

[LordEntrails]

FYI, yes you can add tokens from the token bag, but those tokens will not have hit points etc. Perfect for unimportant things like furniture and commoners, not so much for guards and bandits :)

Also note that you can set the tokens alliance, i.e. friendly, neutral and enemy. That might help some.

[GavinRuneblade]

In addition to the above two tips, let me add that using a token for a crowd of people is also handy for what you are doing, rather than 5 or 8 single people that you need to move, you can have 1 large or huge token with images of a crowd. Much easier.

[Aximes]

Welcome to the FG forums!


Just place a graphical token on the map directly from the token window.

If you're coming from Roll20, don't think of a "token" as a complete set of data relating to a NPC/creature - in Fantasy Grounds a token is a graphical object that you place on the map. If you place it directly from the token folder then it is not linked to any data, if you place it from the combat tracker, then the token will be linked to the NPC/PC data of that combat tracker record.

So that means, that when I Tokens, that are just graphical, I don't need to create "placeholder npcs" as I do it rn and put them into encounter, because I can just use the tokens itself to place them?

Edit: I just read the 2 following posts... That is basicly all I had to know. ^^ Yeah, it worked... So I can delete the citizens encounter and just place some Tokes, wich is way better ofc, because it doesn't spam the CT.
I already knew about that "friendly, neutral, hostile" thingy, but thank you anyway. :)

About the "1 Toke for a huge crowd" tip is good... Especially because it doesn't lag the client to hell when you try to load 100 Tokens. :'D But in this situation I'm not sure, if that works due to complicated terrain. But thank you for the tip anyway! :)

[Griogre]

One thing that is nice about the large token for a crowd is that the "crowd" can then become "terrain" in that you could stat them in some scenarios - and treat them like a swarm or just like difficult terrain or a hazard. So you can set up a "trying to pass through a panicking crowd" who's trying to run in the away in the opposite direction, ect.

[Aximes]

One thing that is nice about the large token for a crowd is that the "crowd" can then become "terrain" in that you could stat them in some scenarios - and treat them like a swarm or just like difficult terrain or a hazard. So you can set up a "trying to pass through a panicking crowd" who's trying to run in the away in the opposite direction, ect.

But couldn't that also be very problematic? i mean. You can't move the citizens individually. Because this whole thing is a setup... They have 2 planned options (maybe more, if the group has a creative idea) and these are either fight, or run away. Anyway... This thing is timebased... My group of 5 (Pathfinder level 1) +4 Rebels (CR 2 each) fighting 9 Guards (CR1 each) They are also some reinforcements. Some stronger guards... And they don't really want to fight them. So they have to either end the fight, or try to flee before the reinforcement arrives. The reinforcement has to find a way through the panicing crowd first... Due to much armor, marching in a formation + the crowd they can just move like 1-2 tiles per round. So they have around 7-8 Rounds to find a way. Now I have the problem (Okay... Not a problem anymore. ^^ Thanks to you guys), that I want to realize this. So I want to visualize this and basicly this is what I came up with... And yes... I'm noob dm... I don't follow all the rules... But thats okay. Its kinda the style my group likes.

27251

[Trenloe]

So I want to visualize this and basicly this is what I came up with... And yes... I'm noob dm... I don't follow all the rules... But thats okay. Its kinda the style my group likes.

27251
Looks good! Go with what works for you and your group. :)

[Griogre]

But couldn't that also be very problematic? i mean. You can't move the citizens individually. Because this whole thing is a setup... They have 2 planned options (maybe more, if the group has a creative idea) and these are either fight, or run away. Anyway... This thing is timebased... My group of 5 (Pathfinder level 1) +4 Rebels (CR 2 each) fighting 9 Guards (CR1 each) They are also some reinforcements. Some stronger guards... And they don't really want to fight them. So they have to either end the fight, or try to flee before the reinforcement arrives. The reinforcement has to find a way through the panicing crowd first... Due to much armor, marching in a formation + the crowd they can just move like 1-2 tiles per round. So they have around 7-8 Rounds to find a way. Now I have the problem (Okay... Not a problem anymore. ^^ Thanks to you guys), that I want to realize this. So I want to visualize this and basicly this is what I came up with... And yes... I'm noob dm... I don't follow all the rules... But thats okay. Its kinda the style my group likes.

27251

Yeah, don't worry about style as long as your group likes it. :)

On the crowd idea. You are creating a maze of NPC's. You have placed every square that is full or empty and are not letting the other characters move through them - but as you have found that type of thing is a pain especially if you really need to move all those tokens around. You could just simulate that type of thing by making the whole area assumed to be full of people getting in the way causing the PCs and other NPCs to move at reduced speed and if they are in the area of the crowd to be attacked if the crowd turns hostile. That way you don't have to place out all those tokens you can either just make a large token transparent in the middle or just sketch the crowd area on the map. The idea here is to avoid having a ton of tokens to have to manage.

[BrettM]

This has been on my mind, as I'm about to run a medium size dungeon (temple -- 20 rooms) with similar characteristics, in that various NPCs will be on the move if alarm bells ring, etc.

I understand adding token(s) to the map to represent various groups, and move them accordingly, but when that NPC(s) reaches the party, and an encounter ensues (or they add to an existing encounter) any 'best practices' on getting them on the combat tracker asap? Once 'non-linked' tokens are moved about, especially in the heat of combat and a lot of movement, I can see forgetting which 'non-linked' token is which encounter... especially if there are, for example, 4 or 5 different groups of orcs moving about.

I considered placing the Encounter Pins on the map, and moving them about, but visually it's tough to quickly distinguish a Encounter pin from a Room / Description pin.

I fear frustrating FG veterans that are trying to help with this, as it seems they just "get it" but I'm missing how to do this effectively. And I understand this is akin to old-school, paper-based D&D where it was just words on a page and the DM had to figure out how to track movement.

If anyone has video links showing FG DM/GMs putting medium / large dungeons in practice with various NPCs moving about, that would be helpful as well. My thanks!

[Zacchaeus]

There's only two ways to get tokens onto the CT (unless you are using the enhanced kombat extension which I believe allows other methods) and that is either dragging the NPC directly into the CT from the NPC list or via an encounter.

If you are going to have NPCs of any kind involved in combat then you need them on the CT so you would want them there right from the start; then it doesn't matter if they move around - they'll still be available where you need them. If the NPCs are just a bunch of commoners or basically non-combatants then you can just put them directly onto the map and just ignore them when combat starts; but if you need them for combat you have no real choice but to have them on the CT.

[Trenloe]

I understand adding token(s) to the map to represent various groups, and move them accordingly, but when that NPC(s) reaches the party, and an encounter ensues (or they add to an existing encounter) any 'best practices' on getting them on the combat tracker asap? Once 'non-linked' tokens are moved about, especially in the heat of combat and a lot of movement, I can see forgetting which 'non-linked' token is which encounter... especially if there are, for example, 4 or 5 different groups of orcs moving about.

I use number tokens to represent each encounter group, so that I don’t confuse them with already deployed NPCs. Then I just add a#1, #2, etc. in front of the encounter name so I know which one I’m using - you can drag/drop the name onto the token once on the map to give a tooltip if you really need to map a token to an encounter name. I’ll keep all the encounters relevant to the map in a group in the encounters window so I can reference them quickly - and have a relevant name, e.g. #1 - 5 orcs from Kitchen.

It still requires a little manual work, but all you need open is the encounter window with the active encounter group I mentioned above selected, and then you can quickly reference which number token applies to which NPC group. When you need to activate the NPC group, open the relevant encounter and deploy to the CT, or just drag/drop the encounter link direct to the CT. You may find it easier to remove token pre-placement in the encounter and drag/drop each NPC token from the CT to the correct place on the map when the encounter is activated, or you could leave pre-placement on and just adjust the tokens on the map. Then remove the numbered encounter token.

[LordEntrails]

I was going to suggest using and moving the encounter (or even the story) pins, but I like Trenloe's idea much better :)

[Trenloe]

Lots of different number/letter tokens here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?20182-Yet-more-alphabet-tokens-for-those-who-can-t-get-enough-variety-
And here: https://chezblacky.franchouille.fr/tag/tokens/

In case you need variety or would like to differentiate from the standard tokens that come with FG - which don't actually have numbers and are used for default tokens if creatures don't have a specific token assigned.

[BrettM]

There's only two ways to get tokens onto the CT (unless you are using the enhanced kombat extension which I believe allows other methods) and that is either dragging the NPC directly into the CT from the NPC list or via an encounter.

If you are going to have NPCs of any kind involved in combat then you need them on the CT so you would want them there right from the start; then it doesn't matter if they move around - they'll still be available where you need them. If the NPCs are just a bunch of commoners or basically non-combatants then you can just put them directly onto the map and just ignore them when combat starts; but if you need them for combat you have no real choice but to have them on the CT.

Thanks Zacchaeus. Once I want / need them on the CT, this is what I do. I was asking about movement on a map before those NPCs are in combat. I tried adding all encounters for a 20 room dungeon to the CT to track everything, but then the CT had ~40+ NPCs. So if the party encountered one NPC group of, say 4 NPCs, I was scrolling through 40 CT items just to find 4 :( .

Trenloe has some good points below as well, that I'm going to try. Thanks all!

[BrettM]

Great idea Trenloe - thanks! As you mention, it requires some manually tweaks (especially with prepared adventures, which I tend to run), but I can see how it helps.

(Coming from Roll20, and yes -- I realize tokens in FG are mainly images / placeholders, vs. Roll20 where they clickable representations of the NPC, I was struggling how to see / manipulate everything, as in Roll20 they are visible on the GM layer from the beginning, and easy to move around. Don't get me wrong -- FG is superior, IMO. Just one of the few areas I've been learning to 'translate' to FG's method.)

Can you tell me what you meant by "drag/drop the name onto the token"? I'm visualizing a "1" token or a "5" token on the map representing the encounter, but I wasn't aware you can drag and drop a name onto the token? Can you clarify? Thanks!


you can drag/drop the name onto the token once on the map to give a tooltip if you really need to map a token to an encounter name.

[Trenloe]

Can you tell me what you meant by "drag/drop the name onto the token"? I'm visualizing a "1" token or a "5" token on the map representing the encounter, but I wasn't aware you can drag and drop a name onto the token? Can you clarify? Thanks!
You can highlight text and drag/drop that text onto a token that is already on the map. A quick way to do it is type the text into the chat entry field, but don’t press enter - then drag/drop that text onto the token on the map. It assigns that text to the token as a mouse-over tooltip.

[BrettM]

You can highlight text and drag/drop that text onto a token that is already on the map. A quick way to do it is type the text into the chat entry field, but don’t press enter - then drag/drop that text onto the token on the map. It assigns that text to the token as a mouse-over tooltip.

Thanks - I didn’t know that!

[Zacchaeus]

Thanks - I didn’t know that!

Only Trenloe knew that! :)

[BrettM]

only trenloe knew that! :)

lol!

[wndrngdru]

You can highlight text and drag/drop that text onto a token that is already on the map. A quick way to do it is type the text into the chat entry field, but don’t press enter - then drag/drop that text onto the token on the map. It assigns that text to the token as a mouse-over tooltip.

This needs to be in the "Tips 'n' Tricks" thread if it isn't already. :cool: