Ran 1st session tonight!, Questions

[Old Coast]

Ran 1st session tonight with 6 PC's, only connection issues we had was the dialup dropping like crazy, everyone else on broadband was smooth sailing.
it was all RP session, but I've done several mock large combats with only one other logged on and dont expect any problems they seem to take as long as they do at the real life gaming table.

Hugest problem was the character sheets, I had everyone fill out detailed character sheets inside their own license, only to find all their character sheets blank after they logged into my game. I had everyone log off email me their XML files and I placed them in my Character Folders and then had them relog on, it didn't work. Then I realized I wasing the D20-SRD rules so I made a folder called D20-SRD and put them all in there NOPE, didn't work either after about 30 mins of screwing around with this people just re-typed out the basics and we got going. But I was annoyed as I made it a point to get everyone to fill out everything in advance for our mutual quick reference and as a time saver, instead we wasted 30 mins and just got annoyed.

Why in the hell when you log on as player doesnt your character sheet appear in the DM's License this seems like step 1 for this type software
if this can be done easily what the heck am I doing wrong?
if I have the XML files where the heck do they go?

Another thing that I see coming from my mock combats is the unfriendly use of combat modifiers. I see where all the common modifiers are but why is the use of your attack bonus so unfriendly?, I have take a common modifier and edit it in the tool for the attack for every enemy combatant??
I've found its way easier to just type /die 1d20+6 that way the players get to see your attack roll, unfortunately I dont get the fun of throwing the die.
how do you handle a situation where you have multiple modifers and you want to show everyone what they all are???

ex: I want to make a ranged attack at a target with cover and in melee
so I want the players to see the roll 1d20+6, with mods -4 cover, and-4 in melee SO I want to see 1d20+6,-4,-4 = 16+6-4-4= 14 why does that seem impossible to do easily??
again I feel I must be missing something but I have a good amount of time
with the software and still can't get the combat mechanics worked out to my satisfaction


Frustrating as all hell, but other than that we had blast and the software overall is awesome any advice on my two issues would be great!, next session is next monday. Thanks

[kalmarjan]

Hugest problem was the character sheets, I had everyone fill out detailed character sheets inside their own license, only to find all their character sheets blank after they logged into my game. I had everyone log off email me their XML files and I placed them in my Character Folders and then had them relog on, it didn't work. Then I realized I wasing the D20-SRD rules so I made a folder called D20-SRD and put them all in there NOPE, didn't work either after about 30 mins of screwing around with this people just re-typed out the basics and we got going. But I was annoyed as I made it a point to get everyone to fill out everything in advance for our mutual quick reference and as a time saver, instead we wasted 30 mins and just got annoyed.

Why in the hell when you log on as player doesnt your character sheet appear in the DM's License this seems like step 1 for this type software
if this can be done easily what the heck am I doing wrong?
if I have the XML files where the heck do they go?

Are you using the default characyer sheet? Or are you using the modified sheet?

If it is the latter, then unfortunately you will have to get your players to reenter their stats.

If you wanna know where to put the characters xml information, it goes in the DM's db.xml file under the parent node <node name="charsheet">


Another thing that I see coming from my mock combats is the unfriendly use of combat modifiers. I see where all the common modifiers are but why is the use of your attack bonus so unfriendly?, I have take a common modifier and edit it in the tool for the attack for every enemy combatant??
I've found its way easier to just type /die 1d20+6 that way the players get to see your attack roll, unfortunately I dont get the fun of throwing the die.
how do you handle a situation where you have multiple modifers and you want to show everyone what they all are???

ex: I want to make a ranged attack at a target with cover and in melee
so I want the players to see the roll 1d20+6, with mods -4 cover, and-4 in melee SO I want to see 1d20+6,-4,-4 = 16+6-4-4= 14 why does that seem impossible to do easily??
again I feel I must be missing something but I have a good amount of time
with the software and still can't get the combat mechanics worked out to my satisfaction

The modifier works on a stack concept. All modifiers add up and apply to the roll. If you want to show your players what the rolls consist of, you have a few options.

1) type /die (number)d(dietype)+(Modifier) (Description of Modifier1, etc.,)
this would look like /die 1d20+6 -4 cover -4 melee.

2) you can type the modifier, then roll the dice. The die icon should appear in the chat window, and you press enter to have it appear. This allows you to roll with modifiers on the fly.

Hope this has helped, and welcome to FG.

Sandeman

[richvalle]

I'll let someone else handle the character issues.

Re the combat modifiers: What I find easiest to do is to setup the modifiers as hot keys. Then hit the hot key(s) and roll the die. The results are as you are looking for.

So you could have a key for cover, point blank shot, fire into combat, rapid shot, flanking, charging, range attack bonus and melee attack bonus.

When its time to attack hit the right keys for that attack and the modifires go into the mod box under the chat window. Then you roll the die.

Also note it is very easy to add your own modifiers. Just open up the right file and and them. We now have one for our Bard's inspire courage.

BTW, if you want to setup hot keys you can use the '?' to keep the results hidden. I don't remember exactly where it goes... but its in there somewhere.

[kalmarjan]

For the hidden die format, put the ? before the number of dice to roll.

Example: /die ?3d6 sneak attack damage

Hope this helps.


Sandeman

[Old Coast]

Are you using the default characyer sheet? Or are you using the modified sheet?

If it is the latter, then unfortunately you will have to get your players to reenter their stats.

If you wanna know where to put the characters xml information, it goes in the DM's db.xml file under the parent node <node name="charsheet">


OK, that exactly what we did, I put their XML files in my main character folder
I have 2 folders inside in my root character folder one for each set of rules they are D20 and D20-SRD. we are using stock character sheets
I placed copies of the XML files in each folder, I guess the only thing I didn't do was place them directly in the character folder (so no subfolder)
so your saying the path should be:

c:\program files\fantasy grounds\ characters\ player.xml ??

as I was trying c:\program files\fantasy grounds\ characters\ D20\ player.xml

with zero luck.



The modifier works on a stack concept. All modifiers add up and apply to the roll. If you want to show your players what the rolls consist of, you have a few options.


1) type /die (number)d(dietype)+(Modifier) (Description of Modifier1, etc.,)
this would look like /die 1d20+6 -4 cover -4 melee.

again when I typed multiple modifiers i.e
"/die 1d20+6 -4 cover -4 melee" it didn't work
i can only type the root "/die 1d20+6" to work
it must my formating, are you saying that typing exactly

"/die 1d20+6 -4 cover -4 melee" should work?
as I felt I've tried that and it failed, I am not in front of FG right now
so I will try it tonight



2) you can type the modifier, then roll the dice. The die icon should appear in the chat window, and you press enter to have it appear. This allows you to roll with modifiers on the fly.

Yes, I experimented with this a bit still working on trying to incorporated into my normal game mechanic.


Thanks a ton for for the feedback, apparently I am trying to do things correctly but somehow not doing them right, hopefully I can get this figured out.

[Old Coast]

Re the combat modifiers: What I find easiest to do is to setup the modifiers as hot keys. Then hit the hot key(s) and roll the die. The results are as you are looking for.

When its time to attack hit the right keys for that attack and the modifires go into the mod box under the chat window. Then you roll the die.

Also note it is very easy to add your own modifiers. Just open up the right file and and them. We now have one for our Bard's inspire courage.

BTW, if you want to setup hot keys you can use the '?' to keep the results hidden. I don't remember exactly where it goes... but its in there somewhere.

Ok I was experimenting with this and for modifiers all well and good BUT as the DM how do you handle multiple creatures with all different attack bonuses? I am not finding an easy way to create a creatures attack bonus for instance a Hill Giant attacks at +16 , although I have 12 different Mods for various combat mods set up in the 12 hot keys slots, how can I cue a +16 attack without entering a +4 (4 times) or + 8 (2 times) Ive tried getting using the typed commands "/die 1d20+16" then hotkeying modifiers such as "flank" putting a +2 into the box, and they don't work together, it seems it's either:

A) manually type the die roll out OR
B) Roll a Die using Modifier box.

There just don't seem to be enough hot keys to cue BAB's for a large combat and I dont want to waste hotkeys on the BAB's anyway. the maximum modifiers seems to be +8 so when I relabel a hot key box "+8" "hill giant attack" and hit the hot key twice to get +16 and roll , I get:

" ? (D20 result) +8 hill giant attack, +8 hill giant attack"

problem-

1) I cant show the players the roll as its hidden so all I can do is drag and drop and show them the result.

2) what I want is the "real" Base Attack Bonus to show, plus the modifiers and them be able to Drag and Drop the total, and have the players to see the rolls. I want to be able to roll the D20 using the Hill Giant as an identity, and get the following result (that the players can immediately see)

"Hill Giant: Swings Club (D20 Result) +16 +2 Flank"

then I drag and drop the total for them.

how can I get something like that happening on the fly without pre-entering
a bunch of screwy hot key combo that come out looking correctly anyway?

I feel like I am missing something obvious as this seems like it should be easy to do?

the way I liked to be able to set up is
1) have12 hot key boxes set up for combat modifiers
2) have the NPC/ Monster Identities above that ( that works fine)
3) be able to actually type the BAB for attacking creature (hill giant +16)
4) click any hotkey modifiers that apply
5) throw the D20
6) have the players see the whole result

repeat for damage if applicable, how can I get to this point

again any help is greatly appreciated!

[Bumamgar]

To add characters to a campaign you have to take the character.xml file and copy it's contents into the appropriate location in the campaign's db.xml file.

For example:


<?xml version="1.0" encoding="iso-8859-1"?>
<root version="1.05">
<node name="charsheet">
<node name="Testcharacter">
<intvalue name="ac">0</intvalue>
<intvalue name="acarmorbonus">4</intvalue>
<intvalue name="acbasehelper">0</intvalue>
<intvalue name="acdexbonus">0</intvalue>
<intvalue name="acmiscbonus">0</intvalue>
<intvalue name="acpenalty">0</intvalue>
<intvalue name="acshieldbonus">0</intvalue>
<intvalue name="acsizebonus">0</intvalue>
<intvalue name="appraisemisc">0</intvalue>
<!-- snip the rest of the character data -->
</node>
</node>
</root>
This db.xml file will be found in the ...\FantasyGrounds\campaigns\campaignname folder, and can be edited with notepad or any other simple text editor.

Make sure you edit it only when Fantasy Grounds is closed, as it will over-write your changes when it saves it's "in memory" version of the campaign periodically.

[gurney9999]

one thing you've mentioned 12 hot key slots several times... you do realize you have 96 hot key slots to work with? nothing... shift... ctrl... alt... shift + ctrl... shift + alt, etc.

also, I don't have the app in front of me, but I think you can use an NPC's description tab to set up some chat frames that you could set up specific modifiers for that creature without using the hot key slots... someone feel free to correct me on that one.

[Bumamgar]

As for the modifiers bit, keep in mind that you actually have 48 hotkeys available, not just 12. You have F1 - F12, plus ALT, CTRL and SHIFT F1 - F12.

So, what you want can be done using hotkeys to setup BAB's and then the other common modifiers, or you can keep the common modifiers ruleset page open and off to the side and drag and drop it's modifiers as needed.

ie: you setup a hotkey for +16 Hill Giant BAB, press that key, the mod box will show +16 with one dot, then you drag the "Flanking +2" modifier from the common modifiers page that you keep open, now the mod box shows +18 with two dots, etc. Then when you roll the die, the entire modifier stack will appear. Granted, this die will be hidden from the players. I am not sure how to make it unhidden using the mod stack and a "physical" die roll.

Personally, I find it easiest to just /die ?1d20+18 and tell the players what the result is. You can use "up arrow" and "down arrow" to cycle through the chat entry history, so as you use /die ?1d20+16 for to-hit and then /die ?1d8+6 for damage, you can just toggle between them repeatedly for multiple attacks or for each combat round, etc.

I'm sure this is a simple style issue, but personally I like to keep all rolls hidden from the players. This allows me creative freedom to alter events as needed to maintain the flow of the game. Remember, the dice are only a guide, not the absolute law of what happens :)

I try to avoid getting too bogged down in the exact modifiers and numbers too much. I mean, yes, I play "by the rules" and apply the appropriate +2 for flanking, or -4 for cover, etc. but I don't feel the need to spell out the formula behind each roll for the players. I just do my secret rolls, and tell the players the outcome. The game flows quickly, the dice guide events but do not dictate them, and everyone has a fun time :)

My way is not the right way, it's just my way. Play whatever way is fun for you and your players :)

[Bumamgar]

My bad... 96 slots :) I forgot you could combine meta-keys for more combinations...

[Old Coast]

Gurney-ok that rocks, I didn't realize there was more than 12, 48+ helps alot
at least I can set up numerous BAB's and Modifiers, thanks for pointing that out, I should have assumed that was the case.

Bumamgar, Thanks for the info, I kind of figured editing the XML Campaign DB would be the final step, I just thought it had to be easier way. whats the point of the "characters" root folder if adding character files to it doesnt add their sheet to the game?

couple things



ie: you setup a hotkey for +16 Hill Giant BAB, press that key, the mod box will show +16 with one dot, then you drag the "Flanking +2" modifier from the common modifiers page that you keep open, now the mod box shows +18 with two dots, etc. Then when you roll the die, the entire modifier stack will appear. Granted, this die will be hidden from the players. I am not sure how to make it unhidden using the mod stack and a "physical" die roll.

when you say set up a "+16" BAB do you mean dragging say 2 +8 modifers
from the common modifier sheet and using edit relabing it?

I may be wrong but I thought it wasn't adding the numbers for me in the hot key slot, and would show +8, +8 of course this doesnt really matter in hidden rolls anyway, My group are all big mini's players and I personally like to play tourment style so all combat rolls are made in the open and we let the punches fall where they may. I wish I could get the above system to show rolls to the players as that probably work for me

Is there any way using the typed "die rolls" with Hotkeys?
or is it you roll using the mod box and hot keys, OR you type it out?
I can live without physically throwing the die, if I can type the right
strings out, it seems to go better for me I just type out the attack strings
as long as multiple addtions and subractions work in one command line
IF "/die 1d20 [+mod] [-mod] [-mod]" works I'll be ok, I just seemed to find
that only "/die 1d20+mod worked. I am definitely digging in tonight.

Hey, thanks again!

[kalmarjan]

Okay, the problem you are having is that you want to display each modifier? I believe that that is currently not possible.

What we do is something like:

/die d20+4 Weapon Focus (Longsword), Str Bon

You need to add up all the modifiers, then you apply ONE modifier to the die roll. I believe what you want is something to tally out the roll for you. Perhaps with the scripting promised in LUA that will be possible; for right now you need to add the "final" modifer to the die roll. (Just like in PnP games.)

Hope this clears this up,

Sandeman

[richvalle]

What about:

For most the attacks you do this before the game:

/die d20+8 Giant attack
/die d20+8+2 Giant attack, flank
/die d20+13-4 Giant ranged attack, fire into combat

You'll get the die results and the total. The players would have to subtract out the mods to see what you rolled but they would get the idea.

You might have to create some on the fly for situations you didn't see coming.

rv

[mr_h]

I just sat down with my players and we generated players tonight and set stuff up. It got me thinking.

A very nice addition to the manual would be a "First time setup" type section. IE: We recommend making these type of macros, and the steps on how to do that. "Drag these types of rules sheets" etc.

We figured stuff out as we went along, but a guide for new people might be nice:)

[richvalle]

What about:

For most the attacks you do this before the game:

/die d20+8 Giant attack
/die d20+8+2 Giant attack, flank
/die d20+13-4 Giant ranged attack, fire into combat

You'll get the die results and the total. The players would have to subtract out the mods to see what you rolled but they would get the idea.

You might have to create some on the fly for situations you didn't see coming.

rv

Sorry, thats wrong... you would get the die results and the mods added up but NOT the total. You could then drag and drop/right click on the result to get the total.

rv

[Old Coast]

I made some big progress last night getting a workable set up for myself going
it was also good to find out that what I wanted to do right now isn't possible
(yet, fingers crossed) . I will probably just end up with combo of typing and some hotkeyed stuff with the roll.

I can see 3 huge improvements that could/should be made to FG

they would be-
1) creating a BAB box for melee and ranged attack that is editable and draggable to the toolbar and the modifier box. (the way that saving throws are) That way any NPC or Monsters BAB is automaticly accessible by opening their stat sheet. That way you can just drag the BAB where you want it and then Drag modifiers from the modifier sheet or tool bar, this doesn't seem like it be difficult to do.

2)I would also like an option for the DM to "show to die roll to players"

3) making importing player character sheets alot easier than the manually editing the XML campaign database .

Those 3 things would make me 100% satisifed with FG, right I am about at 85% which still isnt bad.

thanks for the comments, it was really help for to me to get a grasp on the big picture.

[kalmarjan]

2)I would also like an option for the DM to "show to die roll to players"


After the die is rolled, drag the result below and release to give a total box to the players.


3) making importing player character sheets alot easier than the manually editing the XML campaign database .


I do agree with this. Right now, the only option aside from editing the xml is to have the players create the characters in server mode, when they are connected to your client.

Hope this helps,

Sandeman

[richvalle]

I'm not sure what happened with the characters. They should be able to make characters on their side and then select them when they login to your side (the first time). The next time they play there should be 2 version of that character: the local one they created and the server one that they played with. From that point on they keep selecting the server side as that one would have all the changes made while you play.

rv

[Old Coast]

After the die is rolled, drag the result below and release to give a total box to the players.

sorry I meant an option to show the original die roll with the modifier to the player. As it stands you roll blind and drag and drop the results

I would love it if I could roll a die and it would show up the same way
it does when you type the command.

[gurney9999]

A very nice addition to the manual would be a "First time setup" type section. IE: We recommend making these type of macros, and the steps on how to do that. "Drag these types of rules sheets" etc.

We figured stuff out as we went along, but a guide for new people might be nice:)I've had a DM Tips and Traicks 'tutorial' in the plans for several months now, but with the other things going on over at FUM this has taken a back seat until we see 1.06.

[Paradoxic]

Hi guys, I was messing around with the demo version and found some solutions for the problem:

First, go in and type "/die +16 Hill Giant" and hit enter. Drag the oval 16 to a hot key. Now drag the flanking common modifier to a hot key. Now hit both hot keys and roll a die. This should result in a 1d20+18 dice roll labeled as "Hill Giant +16, Flanking +2" (though it still has a ? at the start of the oval).

This will let you mix-n-match the modifiers as necessary.

[richvalle]

Hi guys, I was messing around with the demo version and found some solutions for the problem:

First, go in and type "/die +16 Hill Giant" and hit enter. Drag the oval 16 to a hot key. Now drag the flanking common modifier to a hot key. Now hit both hot keys and roll a die. This should result in a 1d20+18 dice roll labeled as "Hill Giant +16, Flanking +2" (though it still has a ? at the start of the oval).

This will let you mix-n-match the modifiers as necessary.

The problem is the ? that you see. That means the die roll is hidden from the players. If you then drag and drop the result or right click and share it, the players see the total, but not what makes up each part of that total.

I do like how you got that +16 mod though. I hadn't thought of that.

rv

[Paradoxic]

If you then drag the oval and drop it back down on the chat window, the players will see the "Hill Giant +16, Flanking +2" and then the total result in an oval. It isn't the best method, but it does handle the quick tallying of various modifiers into one roll.

[richvalle]

Huh! Maybe that will work for Old Coast then! Nice.

rv

[Old Coast]

Hey guys, that's great our second session is tonight and I am going top try that out!, thanks for the follow up!

[Paradoxic]

Thanks for the question, heh. I'd not have figured it all out if it weren't for a question for which I was interested in discovering the answer.