Static NPC makes my game not so Fast and Furious

[Atrill]

Hi there!
I GMing Last Parsec with veteran players. They have 15 armor and can make a lot of damage in just one turn.
This forces me to change all NPC stats before (on right in) any battle.
But some of NPC have static sheets (red locks) and I must copy it, change and put back into trackers.
This is really not useful.
Sure, I can change any NPC in CT, but when I have a 8 NPC, this is not useful again.
Is exist any way to change "red locked" NPC stats without making a copy and paste each one into CT manually?

[Andraax]

Make a module with copies of all the NPCs you might want to use, edit them there, then open the module in your campaign.

[Talyn]

The DLC Guidelines state that for reference modules, a lot of the stuff is supposed to be read-only. Adventure modules, on the other hand, we just "lock" but don't set to read-only. You'll find the same thing in the WotC 5E modules, the Paizo Pathfinder modules, and so on.

Now, if you have one of the Last Parsec adventures, and the NPCs are set to read-only, you can bring it to the attention of the DLC Developer who did it and see if they'll patch it.

[Zacchaeus]

Or don't drag NPCs straight from the monster Manual into the encounter. Make a copy of them first and drag the copy into the encounter. Or don't show the players your dice rolls (if this is possible) and fudge your rolls so you hit more.

[Atrill]

Very unusuable in middle of combat with 8 equal NPC, I can say.
Yes, Eris Beta V have some NPC with red locks. I thinking this is a links to Sci-Fi NPCs.

[Topdecker]

If you cannot click on an encounter and just use it, all you've done is create a source of frustration and you are not meeting the expectations of the consumer.

This stuff was brought up like 2 months ago, btw. As far as I am concerned, having clickable encounters was a promised MAJOR selling point that isn't being delivered.

[Atrill]

Encounters works and very useful. I just want to have a way to change sometimes NPC stats in a middle of combat, not BEFORE it.
Sadly, some encounters have redlocked NPCs inside, so this slowed my games, because I need copy/change/put NPCs again. I can change NPCs stats inside CT, but this is very slow for 8 equal NPCs.
Other way: to modify each encounter before game. But this is not very useful too.

[Trenloe]

If you cannot click on an encounter and just use it, all you've done is create a source of frustration and you are not meeting the expectations of the consumer.

This stuff was brought up like 2 months ago, btw. As far as I am concerned, having clickable encounters was a promised MAJOR selling point that isn't being delivered.
As mentioned by Atrill, this is not the issue being raised here. The encounters mentioned are "clickable encounters".

[Trenloe]

Encounters works and very useful. I just want to have a way to change sometimes NPC stats in a middle of combat, not BEFORE it.
Sadly, some encounters have redlocked NPCs inside, so this slowed my games, because I need copy/change/put NPCs again. I can change NPCs stats inside CT, but this is very slow for 8 equal NPCs.
Other way: to modify each encounter before game. But this is not very useful too.
I understand this is frustrating for you. There are best practice guidelines for what should be created as read-only (creatures, etc. from a base rulebook) and what shouldn't here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/wiki/index.php/Data_Structure_Overview_and_Best_Practices

The guidelines are that entries from a rulebook should be read-only, and entries in an adventure shouldn't. The reason for this is to ensure that whenever you use an entry from a rulebook you are using the exact same rulebook entry, and not something you may have inadvertently modified within your campaign.

Looking at Eris Beta V: all of the creatures within the adventure module itself can be unlocked. But creatures linked from rules sources (e.g. the Science Fiction Companion) are read-only because they are being accessed from the base rules source, where all records are read-only. For example: Random Encounter: Burrowing Doom uses the Death Worm from the Science fiction Companion.

All I can suggest is doing a quick check before you add an encounter to the Combat Tracker, and do the quick drag/drop changes as required. I know it's annoying, but it's literally the following few steps:
1) When a Random Encounter (or normal encounter) is opened, click on the NPC link/s to see if they are read-only. If they are not read-only, skip to step #5.
2) If the NPC/s are read-only, open the NPC campaign data list from the right-hand desktop sidebar and drag the NPC link from the random encounter to the NPC list - this will create a copy of the NPC.
3) Edit the copied NPC as required.
4) Unlock the encounter and drag the copied NPC link back to the encounter list - it will create a new entry, modify as appropriate (change encounter numbers etc.).
5) Use the encounter.

I've put a quick video together showing these steps and towards the end it shows how quickly these steps can be applied.


https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6oOdW6SsMwsa1c2b3VXV3dLY28 (SD video available - Google is currently creating the HD video - download the actual file and play locally if HD is not available through a browser).

[Topdecker]

As mentioned by Atrill, this is not the issue being raised here. The encounters mentioned are "clickable encounters".

I see. In my case, every encounter involves unarmed mooks that I can not arm because they are locked. And there are tons of unarmed mooks in Deadlands.

[Andraax]

Encounters works and very useful. I just want to have a way to change sometimes NPC stats in a middle of combat, not BEFORE it.
Sadly, some encounters have redlocked NPCs inside, so this slowed my games, because I need copy/change/put NPCs again. I can change NPCs stats inside CT, but this is very slow for 8 equal NPCs.
Other way: to modify each encounter before game. But this is not very useful too.

Since the info for NPCs on the CT is not linked, changing the NPC record would not update the CT in any case. You either need to edit the CT entry directly, or edit the NPC record and re-drop. Depending on what you want to change, it might be faster to create an effect on the fly, and just drop the effect on the NPCs that you want to change stats for...

[Atrill]

Thank for detail answer, Trenloe!

[Atrill]

Since the info for NPCs on the CT is not linked, changing the NPC record would not update the CT in any case. You either need to edit the CT entry directly, or edit the NPC record and re-drop. Depending on what you want to change, it might be faster to create an effect on the fly, and just drop the effect on the NPCs that you want to change stats for...

Yeah, maybe effects will be useful!

P.S. Do not knew about Deadlands problem with locked NPCs. This is terrible.

[Talyn]

Well, regardless of ruleset, I only build NPCs as they are written, which means no unarmed. It's certainly something that could be addressed with the higher -ups, though and see if they want us to start doing that by default.

[Trenloe]

Well, regardless of ruleset, I only build NPCs as they are written, which means no unarmed. It's certainly something that could be addressed with the higher -ups, though and see if they want us to start doing that by default.
Yep, I agree - if the creatures in the original product didn't have weapons then that's how developers should provide them.

@Others who have commented in this thread: If there is a specific issue where material is provided that is not as written (and there wasn't an overriding reason to change that - which is usually listed in the conversion notes) then please log that as a specific issue in its own thread, then it can be discussed, feedback given and a fix provided if appropriate. But, as has been mentioned just above, if this is how the original material was presented then that's how developers should provide the conversion unless there is direction from SmiteWorks or the publisher to do otherwise. In the example of unarmed NPCs which are also read only: I've shown in post #9 above the quick steps to make a copy and edit to your own requirements - which will also keep the original library entry unaltered, which is the main reason by library material is set to be read-only.

[Trenloe]

P.S. Do not knew about Deadlands problem with locked NPCs. This is terrible.
Without the full details of which NPCs we're talking about, then this may be by design - as I mentioned above in post #9 and also post #15, there is a reason for making base library data read-only. If the NPCs are in a purely adventure module, then that is different and that should be looked into - given specific examples (FG module name, NPC name).

[Moon Wizard]

Actually, the issue is that those Savage Worlds modules were made a long time ago, before we had the guidelines in place.

Our current guidelines are that any NPC record used in an adventure should be included fully as an editable record in that adventure.

Those SW modules would all have to be revisited to include a copy of each NPC, instead of pointing to the reference version. You should add to Ikael's wish list for Savage Worlds ruleset to see if he can coordinate with developers who made modules.

Regards,
JPG

[Trenloe]

Our current guidelines are that any NPC record used in an adventure should be included fully as an editable record in that adventure.
Yep. :)

Like I said in post #16: "If the NPCs are in a purely adventure module, then that is different and that should be looked into - given specific examples (FG module name, NPC name)."

[Moon Wizard]

Just to clarify my comment above a bit, the inclusion of full NPC records in DLC as a guideline above is only relevant when the reference book and adventure are made by the same publisher or available though an OGL type license, due to copyright considerations.

Luckily, in most situations, I think this should be straightforward.

Cheers,
JPG

[Topdecker]

This is 10 minutes of looking in DLR THE FLOOD

Harrowed Guards - skills are wrong
Rail Warriors - no default weapon
Guardian Angel - no default weapon
Outlaw - no default weapon (uneditable because it is linked)

These aren't needle in a haystack problems.

With DLR The Flood, I don't know what I am going to get unless I vet every encounter and since some of problems are not evident until you are in the combat tracker, it is really a pain to even vet the problems. I paid the money to save time and to just have things work. I should not need to pre-check every encounter prior to running the evenings session.

[Trenloe]

This is 10 minutes of looking in DLR THE FLOOD

Harrowed Guards - skills are wrong
Rail Warriors - no default weapon
Guardian Angel - no default weapon
Outlaw - no default weapon (uneditable because it is linked)

These aren't needle in a haystack problems.

With DLR The Flood, I don't know what I am going to get unless I vet every encounter and since some of problems are not evident until you are in the combat tracker, it is really a pain to even vet the problems. I paid the money to save time and to just have things work. I should not need to pre-check every encounter prior to running the evenings session.
As I requested in post #15 above, please raise any issues like this in their own thread. Thanks.

[Mortar]

This is 10 minutes of looking in DLR THE FLOOD

Harrowed Guards - skills are wrong
Rail Warriors - no default weapon
Guardian Angel - no default weapon
Outlaw - no default weapon (uneditable because it is linked)

These aren't needle in a haystack problems.

With DLR The Flood, I don't know what I am going to get unless I vet every encounter and since some of problems are not evident until you are in the combat tracker, it is really a pain to even vet the problems. I paid the money to save time and to just have things work. I should not need to pre-check every encounter prior to running the evenings session.

A good chunk of the DLR products available as DLC have been around a long time and are probably in need of an update. In some cases the original dev may not be around/available. That means somebody else will have to pick it up and do the updates. As Ikael keeps up this pace of introducing improvements to the SW ruleset they will fall even further behind and other DLC will be affected as well.

[Talyn]

To slightly derail, would it be appropriate for each ruleset forum to have a sticky along the lines of [ruleset] DLC FEEDBACK and UPDATES so users can post their concerns (and hopefully good comments too) and we can post updates and patch notes all in one place instead of having umpteen bazillion threads that get lost in the noise?

[Talyn]

A good chunk of the DLR products available as DLC have been around a long time and are probably in need of an update. In some cases the original dev may not be around/available. That means somebody else will have to pick it up and do the updates. As Ikael keeps up this pace of introducing improvements to the SW ruleset they will fall even further behind and other DLC will be affected as well.

Yeah pretty much all the DLR stuff could use a remaster at this point, just like the C&C stuff.

[Topdecker]

Talyn, I think Mortar has a better view of it at some level. Basically, there is no point in listing problems when there are an abundance of them.

It still leaves me enormously frustrated because I am committed to running this thing but had not intended to invest this much energy into it.

[Talyn]

Talyn, I think Mortar has a better view of it at some level. Basically, there is no point in listing problems when there are an abundance of them.

There is absolutely a point to listing problems. That's how things get fixed. A lot of the older DLC is no longer acceptable from the expectations users have today. So much work is involved for a GM to actually run them, the only real time saver is that the Story text is there. That's why Mortar and I agreed to remaster some of the old C&C DLC. It's why Hellfrost is undergoing a remaster. DLR could be next, who knows.

[Moon Wizard]

Definitely, there is a point. I have already added to my to do list to check out the DLR modules you mentioned when I got back from traveling. I hadn't said anything, because I don't have specifics on what it would take to fix or when I would be able to get it fixed.

If the fixes are quick, I might be able to fix them up or get Lokiare to fix them. If they take a little more work, I will push them to DLR developer.

There are no plans to do a re-master, but we can definitely help address pain points (like locked NPCs for adventures).

Regards,
JPG

[JohnD]

While your at it, the War of the Dead stuff suffers from much the same thing.

[Moon Wizard]

I've just updated the Flood adventure, so that all NPCs are editable copies, and the Harrowed Guard skills are fixed.

For any other adventures, we'll have to handle on a case by case basis, since the library is huge and the fixes are manual.

Regards,
JPG

[Topdecker]

Thank you, Moon Wizard! I grabbed it straight-away then listened to Leonard Cohen sing Hallelujah :)

[Talyn]

Aaaaand I didn't even realize I owned The Flood til it just started patching! LOL

But hey! What are you doing over here? That Starfinder ruleset isn't gonna write itself! ::cracks whip:: :p

[WansumBeats]

I want to throw my two cents into the ring, as this was something I brought up about two months ago and I agree with topdecker. Specifically in deadlands reloaded : the flood. There are SO many mooks that are locked and don't have a weapon.

This was done on purpose, for example the Railway Workers character... it states specifically they these mooks would use whatever weapons they had available pitchforks, sledge hammers, pick axes ect ect.. so the weapons were never added because of course its up to the dm to decide what weapon they have.

That said... its a total pain in the *** to copy/paste/drag and jingle wingle dangle PCs around when your trying to play the game. Its silly... they should be unlocked and i should be able to go to the ITEMS section and drag a weapon onto the character and were off to the races.

Alot of time this catches a DM off guard and its happened to me numerous times throughout the plot point campaign in the flood....

Frankly is sucks and should be fixed. There shouldn't be a "work around" I have to deal with.

just saying ;)

[Talyn]

So, and I've never ran DLR yet so maybe this is a thing there, but the NPCs I looked at in The Flood (post patch) don't have attack buttons to click. They have damage, but no attacks. The good news is the NPCs themselves are no longer static, so we can unlock them. However the attacks for some reason are still static (unlockable).

I double-checked with Lankhmar and the NPCs there have both attack and damage "clickies" on the NPC sheets so I'm thinking something is still wonky in The Flood and probably elsewhere.

[Moon Wizard]

I'll have to have Ikael take a look, because the data records are now editable. Not sure why the buttons wouldn't show up for them.

However, as noted above, the DLR marshal's guide specifically state that those NPCs use whatever weapon is handy and the adventure is silent on what is "handy", so it's not clear what they should be holding as weapons. I looked at the original books just to double check.

Just getting back into the stream of consciousness after travelling for 3 weeks, including Gencon.

Regards,
JPG