EXT: Old-School Initiative

[Nickademus]

Unearthed Arcana's Greyhawk Initiative System
Version: 1.1
Description: At the beginning of a combat round, each PC and NPC chooses actions which build a pool of dice that are rolled for initiative. This extension provides a clean UI for controlling the mechanics of this playtest system. You are encouraged to read the free UA article describing the reasoning for the initiative system as well as an example of play using it.

How to Use
The initiative tracker opens automatically (to make sure your combat tracker is properly modified). You can also access it from a PC's character sheet or a button in the Combat Tracker. Double-click the ? button in the upper left corner for instructions. It is recommended that you set your FG option to stop at the end of a round.

How Does It Work
This extension hijacks several aspects of the Combat Tracker, using input determined from the UI of the initiative tracker to set the initiative order. From there you can use the Combat Tracker normally, determining new initiative each round.

Update Notes

CT would process characters out of order sometimes. Fixed.
Script error when trying to remove effect. Fixed.


******************
Modification Specifics
******************
Ruleset Files Altered:
none

[ColinBuckler]

I really like the idea of the Greyhawk initiative system and interested in this mod.

Mind you its not a system that I would want to run around the table - I can imagine it being cumbersome and slow the combat down even further. I suppose an approach could be to popup the screen (a bit similar to Savage Worlds card initiative choice) where you chose your action and the dice to be rolled are displayed followed by a click to confirm button.

I must admit though when I read it, I thought a better way of doing the initiative would be to start off with a d20 base and then depending what actions they take in the round would build the dice they roll for the next rounds initiative. This way the computer program could track the actions easier, but then again thats not the way the Greyhawk initiative system was written.

I wonder if this is one of the entries that will appear for the new Xanthar's Guide to Everything when its released in November this year which means it may need to be added as functionality to the ruleset.

[Nickademus]

I wonder if this is one of the entries that will appear for the new Xanthar's Guide to Everything when its released in November this year which means it may need to be added as functionality to the ruleset.

It is not. Mike Mearls has already stated that.

[Oxen007]

I have already volunteered my group to try this for a few games. I can't wait till this extension is testable. I can play test it for you!

I am currently using a throw back to basic D&D, each side rolls and the higher initiative side goes. My players like it, bit the Merle's system will give players some control over their order. I just don't want to do all the rolls manually, neither are my players keen on making things more complex.

This guinea pig is at your service for play testing!

[Nylanfs]

No #ResistMearls :)

[Nickademus]

This guinea pig is at your service for play testing!

Unfortunately, the UI uses a few button that would be copyright infringement to include. So I will have to post the extension without button graphics and have the user add in whatever images they want (unless some generous community artist is willing to donate some graphics for the button). Other than that, this is almost done.

.... oh, and welcome to the forums Oxen. Entrails will yell at me if I don't observe the formalities.

[LordEntrails]

Unfortunately, the UI uses a few button that would be copyright infringement to include. So I will have to post the extension without button graphics and have the user add in whatever images they want (unless some generous community artist is willing to donate some graphics for the button). Other than that, this is almost done.

.... oh, and welcome to the forums Oxen. Entrails will yell at me if I don't observe the formalities.
*lol*
Just for that I will offer to make some very crude buttons if you tell me what you need and hopefully point me to sample images so I can get size and coloring etc.

I do promise they will be crude though. I'm no artist and don't have time to learn :)

[Moon Wizard]

That's why I use text buttons a lot, until one of the other guys decides it needs to be spruced up. ;)

JPG

[Oxen007]

Unfortunately, the UI uses a few button that would be copyright infringement to include. So I will have to post the extension without button graphics and have the user add in whatever images they want (unless some generous community artist is willing to donate some graphics for the button). Other than that, this is almost done.

.... oh, and welcome to the forums Oxen. Entrails will yell at me if I don't observe the formalities.

Will you post instructions on how to add the button graphics?

Thanks for the welcome. Been a while since I used FG, just testing out the waters again by finishing the POTA campaign. I'll be using this at the table with one player remote.

[Nickademus]

I will if it is necessary.

[Nickademus]

So this is pretty much done. I'm ironing out the last few bugs, some of which are quite weird. There is an issue with how the ruleset cycles through entries in the Combat Tracker (they don't always go in the order of the sort, and if you remove something mid-round the CT skips people). I avoid this by not removing anyone until the end of the current round. Some other issue might arise; if they do let me know as much as you can remember about what you were doing when they happened.

Beta version is up.

[Oxen007]

Fantastic work! This is really great. I may not have my settings correct though. It won't cycle through each NPC, PC in the combat tracker correctly.

When I end the turn of the abjurer, it goes right to the PC Leovold, even though there are 2 more NPCs with better initiatives.
19970

I have some screen captures for you, and my combat options are visible in the second one.
19971

Also, I am unable to select the PC to choose their options. I have cleared the ownership of the pc and I still can't control it. I use the software at my table to run adventures, but other players don't bring computers. I did that for a while but we didn't like all of us hiding behind laptops.

For this to work for me I need to be able to select the pc's combat options for them and roll initiative for them and the NPCs.

Is there a way to have an auto roll option like there is in the combat tracker?

[Nickademus]

It won't cycle through each NPC, PC in the combat tracker correctly. When I end the turn of the abjurer, it goes right to the PC Leovold, even though there are 2 more NPCs with better initiatives.
From the screen shot it appears as if it is cycling through them all in proper order. I did notice it skipping CT entries while I was playing around:
There is an issue with how the ruleset cycles through entries in the Combat Tracker (they don't always go in the order of the sort, and if you remove something mid-round the CT skips people). I avoid this by not removing anyone until the end of the current round.Do you remove anyone from the Combat Tracker after rolling initiative? If not, I'll need some more information about the situation which is causing the skip (options won't really matter as there are no options being set for this extension).


Also, I am unable to select the PC to choose their options. I have cleared the ownership of the pc and I still can't control it. I use the software at my table to run adventures, but other players don't bring computers. I did that for a while but we didn't like all of us hiding behind laptops. This is not currently supported. Once the initial extension is more stable I'll add a couple features in, one of which is the ability for the GM to open a PC's sheet and pull up an individual tracker keyed to just that PC. But right now the tracker assumes that an FG client is accessing all the PCs.


Is there a way to have an auto roll option like there is in the combat tracker? I'm not sure what you mean by 'auto roll' as this style of initiative requires input each round rendering automation impossible.

[Zacchaeus]

Difficult to tell from the screenshots but it looks like you may have the NPCs not visible and the skip hidden actors option set.

[Nickademus]

It does look like that.

[JohnD]

Was going to say the same thing.

[Oxen007]

Yes. That was the problem. Thanks!

[Oxen007]

I'm not sure what you mean by 'auto roll' as this style of initiative requires input each round rendering automation impossible.

Once you select the actions of each NPC, can you press one button to roll everyone at once?

[Nickademus]

I doubt I will implement that because the actions of the NPCs should usually be more fluid. I foresee too many situations where a GM will mindlessly click the Roll All button after locking all the NPCs only to go 'Shoot! I wanted to change what so-and-so did this round.' The point of this extension, and the rule system it enables, is to make you (and the players) think every round about tactics. The locking of actions should be enough to give the GM the speed to keep up with the players when choosing actions.

[Oxen007]

I have found that when I load in the encounter, or drop in a monster from the NPC menu, they load in with 0 HP, and all their actions, traits are blank in the combat tracker.

[Zacchaeus]

I have found that when I load in the encounter, or drop in a monster from the NPC menu, they load in with 0 HP, and all their actions, traits are blank in the combat tracker.

I'm seeing this too. I am on the test server so I don't know if that makes a difference or not. Additionally it would appear to ignore some characters that are on the CT altogether. I can't reproduce this consistently. I'll do some more testing.

Edit: Ok did some more testing. new Campaign, imported a couple of PCs and added them to the CT. The extension didn't register their presence on the CT in any way. Added in an encounter from SKT. and the NPCs were added to the CT but without any hp or attacks etc. I gave the two NPCs different dice (one a d4 and the other a d8) and then rolled initiative. Both NPCs rolled 16 which is clearly wrong. Of course I may well be misunderstanding how this works but I assume that initiative is rolled in the normal way from the Menu on the CT. I couldn't find any other way to roll the initiative. When I joined my own game I could then select the two PCs and give them dice but I couldn't find a way to roll their initiative from the player side. As it happened the NPCs rolled low and went 1st and second but then when I moved the CT on after the second NPC it jumped to the PC with the highest roll missing out the PC with the lowest roll. It then jumped to the 1st PC with the lowest roll. I suspect that the test version has changed something which may well be causing these issues.

[Nickademus]

I'll look into it. Though I've noticed that the order the CT goes through things when entries have no initiative isn't the same as they are listed, which seems odd since all I do is reverse the sort order. I'm not sure what it evaluates when going to the Next Actor if not the order of the windows in the windowlist.

[Oxen007]

I'm seeing this too. I am on the test server so I don't know if that makes a difference or not. Additionally it would appear to ignore some characters that are on the CT altogether. I can't reproduce this consistently. I'll do some more testing.

Edit: Ok did some more testing. new Campaign, imported a couple of PCs and added them to the CT. The extension didn't register their presence on the CT in any way. Added in an encounter from SKT. and the NPCs were added to the CT but without any hp or attacks etc. I gave the two NPCs different dice (one a d4 and the other a d8) and then rolled initiative. Both NPCs rolled 16 which is clearly wrong. Of course I may well be misunderstanding how this works but I assume that initiative is rolled in the normal way from the Menu on the CT. I couldn't find any other way to roll the initiative. When I joined my own game I could then select the two PCs and give them dice but I couldn't find a way to roll their initiative from the player side. As it happened the NPCs rolled low and went 1st and second but then when I moved the CT on after the second NPC it jumped to the PC with the highest roll missing out the PC with the lowest roll. It then jumped to the 1st PC with the lowest roll. I suspect that the test version has changed something which may well be causing these issues.

You don't roll initiative the usual way, you double click the dice that show up in the bottom of the old school initiative window. It will then roll them and you will see dialog in the chat window to confirm the initiative roll.

19990

My players really enjoy this new initiative system. Even the Rogue, who now almost always goes last. My sorcerer isn't digging this... yet.

It is a bit more work up front for the DM. The combat took longer in our game, but the last combat was moving faster. I was taking more time thinking about the actions of each NPC. It did force me to read through their spells and attacks to decide what I wanted to do before rolling their initiative. It made for a more challenging combat for the PCs. I will keep using this system for a few more games then we will all decide on it.

I wish fantasy grounds rolled dice faster, maybe its just me, but it takes a long time for the dice to register that I double clicked them and they roll very slowly in the dice tray. I can definitely roll faster with my real dice. It also lags when I am arranging windows on the desktop. The more story windows I have open, the worse it is. I can't see why this would be so. This is not a graphic intense activity.

I run the software on an Alienware gaming laptop that is fast with 16GB ram, but it doesn't speed things up :(

[Zacchaeus]

The speed of your machine is actually likely to be the problem rather than the cure. FG runs on old architecture and uses Direct X9 which some up to date graphics cards struggle with. Try turning down some things like anti-aliasing. I've seen reports that this helps with sluggish dice.

[Trenloe]

Though I've noticed that the order the CT goes through things when entries have no initiative isn't the same as they are listed...
In the FG combat tracker, "no initiative" is actually an Init value of 0. Therefore, if every actor has no initiative they actually all have a value of 0, and the ordering mentioned here is used: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?26659-Combat-Tracker-quirks&p=237367&viewfull=1#post237367 With the first item in the list being 0 and equal for all CT actors with no initiative.

[Nickademus]

I'm seeing this too. I am on the test server so I don't know if that makes a difference or not. Additionally it would appear to ignore some characters that are on the CT altogether. I can't reproduce this consistently. I'll do some more testing.

Edit: Ok did some more testing. new Campaign, imported a couple of PCs and added them to the CT. The extension didn't register their presence on the CT in any way. Added in an encounter from SKT. and the NPCs were added to the CT but without any hp or attacks etc. I gave the two NPCs different dice (one a d4 and the other a d8) and then rolled initiative. Both NPCs rolled 16 which is clearly wrong. Of course I may well be misunderstanding how this works but I assume that initiative is rolled in the normal way from the Menu on the CT. I couldn't find any other way to roll the initiative. When I joined my own game I could then select the two PCs and give them dice but I couldn't find a way to roll their initiative from the player side. As it happened the NPCs rolled low and went 1st and second but then when I moved the CT on after the second NPC it jumped to the PC with the highest roll missing out the PC with the lowest roll. It then jumped to the 1st PC with the lowest roll. I suspect that the test version has changed something which may well be causing these issues.Okay, first: did you double-click the question mark button and read the instructions? The method for both GM and players to roll initiative is given there.

I'm not sure what the test version could do to mess with the order since I'm literally using the 5e CT sort, just running it through a "!" to reverse the order. And I didn't change the Next Actor functionality at all so I don't know why it would be altering how it navigates the CT (unless I don't understand properly how a windowlist in FG navigates).


In the FG combat tracker, "no initiative" is actually an Init value of 0. Therefore, if every actor has no initiative they actually all have a value of 0, and the ordering mentioned here is used: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?26659-Combat-Tracker-quirks&p=237367&viewfull=1#post237367 With the first item in the list being 0 and equal for all CT actors with no initiative.
Thank you for the information but I was already aware of this. I saw it in the code when I looked for which function to send the data through in the custom sort. My inquery is directed at the disparity between the way the CT is sorted and the way the 'active' actor is passed. In theory, the sort puts the CT entries in the order that they appear and the Next Actor button just moves to the next window in the windowlist. Only whether an entry is hidden or not should change this (and I had all my entries shown during testing).

That said, I spent around 4 hours testing with two clients connected playing three PCs. At the beginning I noticed issues with the entries being skipped only when I removed an entry from the CT (such as when an enemy was killed). I stopped removing enemies during the round and started removing them after the round was over and initiative was cleared and I didn't see the problem again. Something happens when the windowlist has an entry removed (possibly a factor of the sort being performed).

[Nickademus]

I have found that when I load in the encounter, or drop in a monster from the NPC menu, they load in with 0 HP, and all their actions, traits are blank in the combat tracker.

Fixed this. I had missed a custom function in CombatManager2. It's been added back into the loop.

[Zacchaeus]

Okay, first: did you double-click the question mark button and read the instructions? The method for both GM and players to roll initiative is given there. .

No, but I single clicked a few times and when nothing happened I assumed it hadn't been added yet :)

I also single clicked on the dice instead of double clicking which made me think that this wasn't the way to roll the initiative.

Well, done. Nice extension.

[Nickademus]

No, but I single clicked a few times and when nothing happened I assumed it hadn't been added yet :)
Again, did you read the instructions in the first post of this thread? :P

... Double-click the ? button in the upper left corner for instructions...

I tend to avoid single clicks for buttons that do more than toggle simply because accidental clicks in FG can be annoying. Also I see many players do things twice because they double-click a button that only required a single click to roll dice or something. Double-clicks are more reliable as a requirement.

[Zacchaeus]

Again, did you read the instructions in the first post of this thread? :P

Clearly I did not :D

In my rather pathetic defence all the other query icons in FG are single clicks.

[Xorn]

As a DM when I try to remove Other Dice I get a script error.

[Nickademus]

Thanks. Fixed. Uploading.

[Oxen007]

I am still getting random errors in the initiative. It still skips players at times. I haven't removed anyone from the combat tracker, but it still occurs. Otherwise it is working just fine.

[Nickademus]

I haven't been able to isolate what is causing the skip (as it didn't turn up in testing). More information about what is going on when it happens would help. (For the record, this extension doesn't handle the code that goes to the next CT entry so there is a peculiarity in 5e/CoreRPG code somewhere that it is interacting with; thus I have limited ability to fix this without more info.)

[bnickelsen]

I am not fan of the rule itself but none the less Good Job.

[Nickademus]

Thanks. Still trying to track down the turn skipping bug.

[evilmouse]

i cant get roll any dice

[Zacchaeus]

i cant get roll any dice

You need to double click on the instruction question mark (top right corner) to get the instructions rather than single click. It shows you how to use the extension there.

[Wheels]

I really like how this initiative variant works and tried out your extension out with a friend and I really liked it. Thank you for developing this.

During our testing, we got some errors and decided to report them here.


Script Error: [string "scripts/manager_token2.lua"]:391: attempt to index field 'original' (a nil value)
Script Error: [string "initTracker.lua"]:57: attempt to index field 'original' (a nil value)

[Nickademus]

Thanks for reporting. Not sure what the error is for manager_token2 as I don't touch that file, but I've changed the way I handle the data from parseEffects to prevent the error from initTracker.lua. I'll update it soon; I'm trying to override something to get rid of the skipping bug.

[Nickademus]

Alright, I think I got both issues fixed. I'm going to keep this in Beta until after my game tomorrow. If everything goes smoothly, I'll give it the green flag on Saturday.

[Wheels]

is it updated on the first post? I can give it some test runs and help you out

[Nickademus]

It is.

[Wheels]

Been testing the new version for at least 1 hour and didn't have any problems. Very excited about using this on my Monday session.

May I make a suggestion? this happened some times because I'm tracking a lot of different things and got distracted. Would it be possible when you end the round and everyone has rolled their init (monsters and players) to put the initiative pointer to the one the has the lowest init? During play test it happened that the pointer was at the last player and I clicked the "End Turn" after everyone rolled their init and since it was at the last player it reset everything. Other than that it went pretty well. Going to make more runs during the weekend

btw, nice image change! they are much clearer now.

[Nickademus]

Turn on the option called Stop at End of Round and then just pass the turn of the last person. The pointer will disappear and a bell will ring for all the players to notify them to roll initiative. Then when you click the pass turn button again it will automatically put it on the person with the lowest initiative without changing anything.


btw, nice image change! they are much clearer now.

That was a mistake. Also, there was another bug in the code that would cause the sort to mess up between characters. I uploaded the proper version with the bug fix.

[Wheels]

yep..that did the trick! great job!

[Wheels]

What does a player roll when he's dying? maybe put some button so the player can just add something to his init? or does he just roll normally in case he gets healed?

[Nickademus]

The player rolls a death save when he is dying. *snicker*

Seriously though, I'd just have them click the Other Action button (the plus button at the bottom) if they can't do anything, such as when stabilized. Or roll as if they were able to act if they expect to be healed magically.

[The Naif]

Thank you for updating! My Monday group really likes this option.

[Nickademus]

Glad you're enjoying it.

[Nickademus]

Alright, this is out of Beta. Live version is uploaded and should be working fine on both the host and client. Let me know if you experience any problems.

[Kyuss11]

I think I broke the old-school initiative on my server. I used to have the old one and it worked except for the skipping player bug. I wanted to try the new updated one you posted since you said you fixed this.However I dragged the new one onto the old one and it updated but now I have some issues.It seems that everything shows up except for the name of creature or player that wants to roll and the arrow doesn't do anything. The images are there for combat options but no dice show at the bottom. I have tried to delete the extension completely and dragged over a new one but nothing seems to work. I'm thinking there might be some residual files left some where on my campaign and need to delete them.

[GainunX]

Its still works in 3.3.10 FGC version?

[Nickademus]

I honestly don't know as I don't have version 3.3.10.

[Milmoor]

Will try this in FGC in one of my upcoming sessions. Will report back. Might take while depending on the route the players choose and what players are present. Not doing this with a newby.

[Milmoor]

Got it locked and loaded for next session (end of the month). Nice interface for the extension. Very curious how this will work out. My bard is practising her grumbling on the rules. We'll see how things work out.

[Gorthedefiler]

I have been using the EXT: Old-School Initiative flawlessly for a few months.

We play every two weeks. Starting 5 Feb 2021. I got the following error when rolling initiative for both mobs or my players.

Script Error: [string "initTracker.lua"]:1135: findNode: Invalid parameter 1

Any ideas on how to correct?

[Gorthedefiler]

I have been using the EXT: Old-School Initiative flawlessly for a few months.

We play every two weeks. Starting 5 Feb 2021. I got the following error when rolling initiative for both mobs or my players.

Script Error: [string "initTracker.lua"]:1135: findNode: Invalid parameter 1

[LordEntrails]

I have been using the EXT: Old-School Initiative flawlessly for a few months.

We play every two weeks. Starting 5 Feb 2021. I got the following error when rolling initiative for both mobs or my players.

Script Error: [string "initTracker.lua"]:1135: findNode: Invalid parameter 1
There was a major ruleset update recently. This extension has not been updated since the update and your report indicates it may no longer work.

[sjbehindthescreen]

My group has been using this initiative method recently, and I found this extension and started hacking on it, unsuccessfully I might add. The error Gor found seems to be related to identifying the active character in the combat tracker so that it can later DB.setValue() the rolled initresult.

What would be the proper way to get the CT node name?

The current code does this (which sets nodeName to nil):
local nCTNode, nodeName = CombatManager.getCTFromNode(lNpc.npc);

An example output of lNpc.npc is this:
s'lNpc = ' | { s'ranged' = #1, s'lDicePool' = { #1 = { s'die' = s'd4', s'type' = s'ranged' } }, s'rangedDieDown' = #0, s'npc' = databasenode = { combattracker.list.id-00001 }, s'spellAdv' = #0, s'meleeDieUp' = #0,[and so on]

So my question would be how do I call/grab 'combattracker.list.id-00001' out of the above table so that I can set nodeName to that value? If I hardcode that value, the extension seems to work.

EDIT: found it: nodeName = nCTNode.getNodeName();


I have been using the EXT: Old-School Initiative flawlessly for a few months.

We play every two weeks. Starting 5 Feb 2021. I got the following error when rolling initiative for both mobs or my players.

Script Error: [string "initTracker.lua"]:1135: findNode: Invalid parameter 1

[epithet]

It seems likely that this extension isn't working any more. Is there an alternative?