PDA

View Full Version : We could use a blitz when FGU releases.



Valatar
July 7th, 2017, 00:35
We can always use more players. With more players comes more creators. With more creators comes more maps, tokens, rulesets, and stuff for making games better and easier. With more content comes more GMs. And so forth and so on, in a cycle that hopefully will build on itself to the benefit of all of us. Grabbing Pathfinder is a really big deal, but that alone doesn't have a lot of 'wow' factor when it comes to showing someone a screenshot or video that makes them excited to throw money at Smiteworks. Seeing a picture of a bestiary page in a FG window isn't gonna make anyone fall out of their chairs. FGU, on the other hand, does have the nifty eye candy that can snag people. With that in mind, here are my unsolicited opinions:

1. Fantasy Grounds is intimidating to a new user at a point where they're likely to bail out.
Most of the people I know would, when confronted with an empty FG screen, try to click on a few things, get their eyes glazed over, then uninstall it. Setting up a campaign in a VTT is a fair amount of work, and staring at a blank tabletop is likely to make someone feel that it's too much work and they shouldn't bother. I propose that a new install of FGU should come with a pre-made module where all the bells and whistles are done already. Pretty maps, lighting and masking and weather effects already enabled, encounters already set up with some nice tokens for the monsters, something that shows off everything it can do in the best possible light. Then, on the first run of the program, offer to load that module. That way a new prospective buyer who's downloaded the demo will see the potential things they can do instead of the manifestation of a GM's version of writer's block. Having a video or webpage with a step-by-step for a new GM with the demo module to load an encounter and go through the combat tracker would also not be a bad idea, just something with arrows for 'Click this button, then this button to roll initiative. Drag this attack onto a token to roll an attack against a player'. Something hand-holdy and simple to get the basics across. People fear the deep end, so start them on the shallow side.

2. There are unexplored avenues into the nerd market that can get lots of eyes on FG for not too much money.
A lot of video game nerds are also tabletop nerds on the side, and there are a ton of video game nerd channels on YouTube and Twitch. Once you have a shiny demo mini-campaign, grab some video game reviewing YouTubers. Some of them would be willing to show your stuff for free if you give them a license, others would need to be paid to do a sponsored video, but if they have a fun game session there'll be thousands of prospective customers watching it who've never heard of FG. This is a bit of a corollary to number one, 'cause before you plop FGU into the hands of streamers, you need to have a polished experience for them to show. If they hit a bunch of snags or can't work out how to use the program, it'll just make FGU look bad, and odds are that most of the YouTube folks aren't gonna spend twenty hours learning the basics of doing their own campaign, so they'll need some training wheels in place. Doug being available to these people for a quick tutorial would be good too; showing that you can make a map with just some tiles and a few clicks and drags can only go over well.

Meanwhile, current GMs running FG could be pretty easily bribed into putting their games up on Twitch if you threw them some free stuff from the store in exchange for agreeing to stream their games. Make some tokens and map tiles to give away or something. That way you'll have GMs who already know how to use the system showing custom content and not just the same demo adventure that people would be seeing on YouTube. They won't have nearly the viewing audience, but if someone sees a video of a popular YouTube person playing the demo, wants to see more, and searches on Twitch, they'll be able to find more content to watch. In addition to spreading the perception of a big healthy community, GMs who know what they're doing with FGU should hopefully be showing off some tricks that less-experienced folks new to the program wouldn't have touched on.

I think that if FGU's release is treated as the unveiling of an entirely new product, with the marketing to match, rather than just an update of a years-old system, there's a strong opportunity to grab a sizable chunk of market share. Everyone out there who doesn't know about VTTs in general, knows something about VTTs but not FG, or knows about FG but wrote it off because they don't know what it can do, all of those people are potential new community members if they can get grabbed and shown the product with the bells and whistles added in FGU.

LordEntrails
July 7th, 2017, 01:09
I do like your idea that after the initial install (or maybe until a box is checked) FG prompts for the sample/tutorial campaign to be loaded. As for the idea of a tutorial campaign, you do know there is one that comes with FG right?

If you don't know, you can always make product improvement ideas (such as the tutorial campaign loading at startup idea) on the wishlist; https://fg2app.idea.informer.com/

Valatar
July 7th, 2017, 01:25
As for the idea of a tutorial campaign, you do know there is one that comes with FG right?

I do! But it of course doesn't have the new FGU visual goodies, seeing as they don't exist yet. What I'm suggesting is that it be updated or replaced with content that shows off the new features to their fullest.

pindercarl
July 7th, 2017, 18:16
I will print this out and pin it to my wall.

Nylanfs
July 7th, 2017, 19:43
Personally I'm okay with the software being a little arcane. If you look at Roll20 they have groups and constant turn over in groups all the time, because it's EASY to start and takes less effort on their users part. So you can get plenty of people that don't feel invested in it. With FG people generally get really invested in it or not. Which I think makes for a better community.

Erin Righ
July 7th, 2017, 21:12
With FG people generally get really invested in it or not. Which I think makes for a better community.

What the hell do you know, you're an Idiot ;) :D

Valatar
July 8th, 2017, 01:49
Personally I'm okay with the software being a little arcane. If you look at Roll20 they have groups and constant turn over in groups all the time, because it's EASY to start and takes less effort on their users part. So you can get plenty of people that don't feel invested in it. With FG people generally get really invested in it or not. Which I think makes for a better community.

I can see the reasoning behind this, however the fact that people have to put money on the table for FG I think will ensure at least a little personal investment. Plus, if FG gets more accessible and we get a thousand new flighty users of whom only a hundred stick around, we're still better off than if it's all arcane and we only got fifty users who weren't intimidated by it.

Topdecker
July 12th, 2017, 18:43
I like the idea for a starter campaign, but it has some problems. If I don't care for fantasy, having a fantasy structured demo might be on the wrong-side of annoying.

Having each community/ruleset create a demo environment that welcomes community expansions might be pretty cool. Since the material would be free, it would be a good use of the Steam Workshop. Authors could be encouraged to explain the creation process and highlight tricks or tips. But Smite would have to be onboard because they would need to control the workshop.

Anyhow, this could tackle the need for starter tutorial materials while encouraging community efforts and growth. i've given a bit to my ruleset community as have a few others - it would be easy to do things in a more organized, goal-orientated fashion.

Both LordEntrails and myself are members of the CC3+ mapping community - those folks have a huge world that is mapped, but not much more. Maybe they'd be open to a community working to populate the environment.

Top

ll00ll00ll00ll
July 12th, 2017, 22:16
Could we start a thread that summarizes all of the current "training videos" out there, and then put them up for a vote, with the top voted videos being added to a forum sticky or something? I've seen both good and bad ones out there. This way, we could have a central place to point to for new people, rather than set them loose in the wilds of YouTube.

Suggested Category starter list:
1. General Overview (including glossary of common terms they will hear)
2. Basic Character Creation
3. How to Host a game
4. How to join a game
5. How to use the forum
6. Basic installation walkthrough for each OS (linux / Windows / Mac)
7. Basic "Extensions" and "custom token / map" addition to FG
8. Basic gameplay
....etc.

Then add "Experienced" then "Advanced" categories. (effect coding / theme design / background stickers / extension creation / .mod creation, etc.)

This way, the video creators will be able to see the voids in the overall training videos and target those for areas to spend their time. I personally think it would be great to see a different person making each video, rather than just one guy doing them all, this way you'd get multiple perspectives, etc.

LordEntrails
July 12th, 2017, 23:15
Both the FG home page (under the Help link) and the wiki have lists of videos. At least the 5E forum has a sticky with video links as well.

That said, FGU will require new videos. And having a matrix of what videos will be needed, and a signup list for doing them, might be a really beneficial thing to prep in advance...

Ken L
July 13th, 2017, 00:25
Personally I'm okay with the software being a little arcane. If you look at Roll20 they have groups and constant turn over in groups all the time, because it's EASY to start and takes less effort on their users part. So you can get plenty of people that don't feel invested in it. With FG people generally get really invested in it or not. Which I think makes for a better community.

This is how you shrink a user base as well. Food for thought.

JohnD
July 13th, 2017, 00:35
This is how you shrink a user base as well. Food for thought.

There's some truth to this but roll20's numbers are greatly inflated because they count everyone who registers as a user even if they never play IIRC. I am considered a "user" over there because I registered an account to ask a question back in early 2010 when I was trying to decide which was better for me, FG or roll20.

Valatar
July 13th, 2017, 02:51
I didn't want to draw direct comparisons to Roll20 because yeah, everyone I know who has used it has only used the barebones freebie account and are probably not going to pay for any VTT setup. Someone who would sooner point a webcam at a map on a table then shell out cash is probably not going to be a Fantasy Grounds buyer.

hpdonat
July 13th, 2017, 04:43
With this new release, will there be an overhaul of the interface? FG is admittedly awesome, but it seems as though it was developed on another planet. I mean none of the customary norms of any standard platforms come in to play within it's operation. FG is entirely it's own beast with a different layout and functionality than any other application i've used on windows or any other operating system for that matter, which makes it less intuitive and harder for beginners grapple with.

Nylanfs
July 13th, 2017, 04:49
That's because it was originally developed more than 12 years ago in Norway (I think that is where they were from, I know it was one of those countries up there).

LordEntrails
July 13th, 2017, 05:04
With this new release, will there be an overhaul of the interface? FG is admittedly awesome, but it seems as though it was developed on another planet. I mean none of the customary norms of any standard platforms come in to play within it's operation. FG is entirely it's own beast with a different layout and functionality than any other application i've used on windows or any other operating system for that matter, which makes it less intuitive and harder for beginners grapple with.
The stated goal of the new release is to adapt a new engine/architecture that will only growth and improvements in the future. Initial release should be that FGU has the same functionality as current FG3 with improved performance and networking capabilities. After that, who knows what's possible? You can search the forums for "unity" and you will find several detailed threads plus some demo examples of what might be coming (like dynamic line of sight and map creation with animated weather effects.

hpdonat
July 13th, 2017, 13:22
You know with the speed in which technology advances these days it exciting to think of where FG will be in the future. Incorporating all the mechanics of a robust system like 5.0, Pathfinder, or any from the list of your supported RPGs, while adding all the graphic and image editing utilities, not withstanding the fact that FG facilitates human interplay without sacrificing the infinite amount of variables which is basically the vitality of table top rpgs is no small feat. Iv'e dabbled in software development and all it's tedium, so my hats off to everyone aiding in the process. So, thank you for making this already wonderful game more wonderful, and I look forward to all the future has in store.

Valatar
July 13th, 2017, 20:21
A UI update would be moderately wonderful, yes. A lot of the right-click menu icons aren't hugely intuitive; I was trying to tell a player how to draw a square on the map to show a zone for a spell and it took a few minutes of fiddling before he could accomplish a relatively simple task. It's another of those things where once you're an experienced user you know what to do and things move smoothly, but it's daunting to a new user.

Valatar
April 22nd, 2020, 19:11
WISE FROM YOUR GWAVE

Now that three years have gone by and FGU is actually on the horizon, I commit thread necromancy to bring this back up. FGU (and FG in general) could very much use a tutorial, an actual tutorial that walks a new user GM through the basics of the interface so it's less of a scary experience. While we here in this forum know about the College and various instructional videos people have made, we're not the newbies.

I also still think that FGU's bells and whistles would play well on streams and Youtube and that Smiteworks would be very wise to reach out to streamers once FGU's in a solid state. The market will react favorably to seeing lots of others using the software to run their games. It's sad that the software wasn't wrapped up before the pandemic hit; I think there would've been an even greater opportunity had it been ready to roll before everyone wound up stuck at home. Still, drumming up public exposure for the software can only help, and more people using it will be a benefit to everyone.