Thorn Whip (Druid Cantrip)

[Karykzen]

"You create a long, vine-like whip covered in thorns that lashes out at your command toward a creature in range. Make a melee spell attack against the target. If the attack hits, the creature takes 1d6 piercing damage, and if the creature is Large or smaller, you pull the creature up to 10 feet closer to you.

This spell’s damage increases by 1d6 when you reach 5th level (2d6), 11th level (3d6), and 17th level (4d6)."

This will probably end up being DM preference, but should the "pull" require opposing strength tests? I just find a cantrip than can pull a Large or small creature 10 feet closer to you without any sort of opposing roll to be a bit over power. With it you can pull something into an existing spell effect, into a trap, off a cliff (assume you are flying), etc.

Just wanted to get other opinions on it.

Cheers,
/<arykzen

[Beltaur]

I'm sort of stuck between the two also. I feel cantrips are suppose to be beginning magic, not a full fledged spell like what a 1st level or higher is. I'm an old school gamer so that is my though process. I would lean toward opposed checks myself with 1st level characters until the spells damage goes up at 5th, then allow it because of experience.

[lordjeb]

I think that the 10 feet of pull is part of the magic, and doesn't have anything to do with the caster's strength. Just like Ray of Frost has a secondary effect to the damage, as does Acid Splash. The cantrips that don't have a secondary effect are the ones that have the much higher damage (i.e., Fire Bolt at d10). So for this one to have a d6 of damage with 10' of pull doesn't seem overpowered at all.

[Spin-Man]

I have to agree with lordjeb that the pull is balanced just fine, since this is one of the least damaging cantrips. A 10' pull isn't always something you want to do, and the spell doesn't allow you to move them in any direction except toward you.

[Zacchaeus]

What would you oppose the strength check against? The magic doesn't have any kind of strength and it's not based in any way against the Druid's strength since it's a magical effect. I don't see this spell being terribly overpowered and in fact seldom selected or used. There would have to be exceptional circumstances where you would want to pull a creature closer to you so it has limited value, and the damage is poor compared t other cantrips.

However, as you say, it is up to the DM; and if the DM wants to impose a check then that's ok.

[LordEntrails]

To me, I would use the spell RAW. If you wanted an opposed then it would be target Strength vs casters spell casting ability check (not str vs str).

[SirGraystone]

If you want a check, I would have the target rolls a Str save against your spell DC. But to balance that I would have the thorns of the whip do an extra 1d6 damage if the save fails. Thinks of it as barb wire you can remove it careful or use strength to tear it off but you'll hurt yourself doing it.