Code not working with ATK

[ArteF]

Hello,

I think there is a combination of effects that aren't working at all.

I'm pretty sure it should work since other versions of it work fine, it looks like this:

.....; ATK: 3; IFT: TYPE(shapechanger); ATK: 5

When used against any creature if picks up the ATK: 3 however against shape changers it doesn't pick up the ATK: 5

I say it isn't working because the damage version works just fine.

....; DMG: 3; IFT: TYPE(shapechanger); DMG: 5

If I damage a creature with a +4 modifier it becomes a +7 and if I damage a shapechanger it becomes a +12.

Is this intentional?

[Trenloe]

IFT (targeted) attack modifiers don't change the actual attack roll. They just change the attack roll check against a target of that type - the hit/miss check will be updated based off the IFT change, but the actual dice roll won't. This is necessary in case there are multiple targets for the attack, and some that don't match the IFT condition. If the actual dice total was changed it would apply to all targets.

[Zacchaeus]

This is certainly working in 5e (you don't say what ruleset you are using). As you can see from the screenshot the effects is +3 against the acolyte and +5 against the Jackalwere.

[ArteF]

Sorry yes I'm using 5e,

So the result is like this: When using ATK: 3; IFT: TYPE(shapechanger); ATK: 5...

The base weapons attack modifier is +6. Against a dragon with this effect the attack result is [dice roll result] + 9.

Against a Wereboar with this effect the attack result is [dice roll result] + 9.

Now if I did the same thing with DMG it actually works as I expected it to which is: With a weapon that has a base damage modifier of +4.

Against a Dragon the damage result is [dice roll result] + 7

Against a Wereboar the damage result is [dice roll result] + 12.

[ArteF]

Ah okay thanks Trenloe so in short it works for damage but not for attack rolls.


Edit----
I think there was a misunderstanding sorry, the effect I'm making should as a base give a +3 to its attack, the check is ONLY for shape changes then the total result should be +8.

This works for damage but not for attacks is my point. Unless I'm doing something wrong.

Edit 2----

Also this is single target so the way it works is like smite where you apply the effect to yourself and on a roll it goes away when you make the attack.

[Trenloe]

Ah okay thanks Trenloe so in short it works for damage but not for attack rolls.
Depends what you mean by "it works". It doesn't modify the total of the base attack roll that you see in the chat window (for the targeting reasons I give above), but it does take it into account when it checks AC for hit/miss.

As you *have* to have a creature targeted for it to work (IFT won't work if you don't have anything targeted), then FG will be reporting hit/miss based off attack roll vs target AC. If the target is a shapechanger (in your example) then +5 is added to the hit/miss check - it's just not shown in the total of the roll, but the effect being applied is shown in the attack result line, with the EFFECTS tag.

So, as far as showing hit/miss (which is mostly what you're looking for), the IFT attack works fine.

For example, the High Elf has an attack of +4, and it make that attack against a Doppelganger. The base roll is 16+4 = 20, but the attack check against the doppelganger is shown as 25, with [EFFECTS+5] showing the effect being applied:

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19044

[Zacchaeus]

I think though Trenloe the OP is wanting to do a +3 to attack rolls for everything except shapechangers when he wants to do +5. And I think there is actually a problem. If we write out effect as the OP which would be ATK: 3; IFT: TYPE(shapechanger); ATK: 5 then I think what is happening is that against shapechangers it is actually adding both effects together for a total of +8. See the screen shot attached. The attacker has a +2 to hit so against the Acolyte he should have a +5 with the added effect, and indeed he gets a +5 in total to his attack. However against the shapechanger he should only get a +7 but he gets a +5 and then another 5 points added in for the check.
I've also tests the same effect using damage; DMG: 3; IFT: TYPE(shapechanger); DMG: 5 and it does exacly the same. The acolyte would get +3 damage but the shapechanger gets +8. Can you reproduce or is it just me?

[ArteF]

@Trenloe

Respectfully that isn't what I'm talking about.

"ATK: 3; IFT: TYPE(shapechanger); ATK: 5" - That does not work

What you posted:"IFT: TYPE(shapechanger); ATK: 5"

Is something different.

"DMG: 3; IFT: TYPE(shapechanger); DMG: 5" - Works as intended: When facing any target you do +3 damage against a shapechanger you do +8.

Edit---

What I'm trying to do is to get the ATK: 3 to work and then when against a shape changer it becomes +8 like the damage version does.

Edit 2 ---

I get what you are saying with the effect result being shown below, but I'm saying the effect result isn't showing.

[Trenloe]

I think what is happening is that against shapechangers it is actually adding both effects together for a total of +8.
Yes it will do that, because that is way conditional effects are designed. IF or IFT are used as a "gate" in the effects line. Anything after the "gate" will only be applied if the conditional statement is true. Anything before the gate is always applied whether the effects after the condition are applied or not.

If you want +3/+5 then use ATK: 3; IFT: type(shapechanger); ATK: 2 If you want +3/+8 then use ATK: 3; IFT: type(shapechanger); ATK: 5 which is what ArteF is looking for (mentioned in post #5).

@ArteF - please check what I listed in post #6 - check your attack result line for the effect being applied to the attack check, not to the base attack roll. If you still don't see it, please post a screenshot similar to mine to show us what's happening.

[Trenloe]

Respectfully that isn't what I'm talking about.
The theory, and the process of applying the effect, is actually exactly the same - anything after a IFT effect will not be applied to the base roll, but will be applied to the attack check.

Here is the same process, with the effect you're mentioning:

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19049

#1 - This is an attack against a Doppelganger. As you can see the generic +3 attack effect has been applied to the base roll - see the [EFFECTS +3] in the base roll line, giving a +7 to base roll overall (the attack has +4 to start with). then the next line, where FG checks for hit or miss - see the [EFFECTS +5] entry and that the final attack result is actually 14: Attack [14] So, here you get the base +3 effect and the +5 effect for the target being an outsider. The base roll of 9 would miss (as the AC of a doppelganger is 14), but with the +5 IFT ATK effect being applied the attack result becomes a 14 and is a hit - which is all shown in the action result line under the base attack roll.

#2 - Attack is against a Goblin. Not an outsider, so all we see if the base [EFFECTS +3] on the attack roll.

As mentioned above, this process is exactly the same as what I've been trying to explain - ATK IF/IFT effects do not show as being added to the base attack roll.

If you're not seeing this, please provide a similar screenshot.

EDIT: And also provide a screenshot of the campaign chat window just after campaign load - so we can see the versions of the rulesets and any extensions you have loaded.

[Zacchaeus]

Ah, thanks Trenloe. Bloody obvious when you think about it

[ArteF]

@Trenloe

So weird, I gave up on it and just went with a simpler option, it may be my version of fantasy grounds or something but I'm not seeing that result you're getting. I tested it out by buffing up the AC of creatures and constantly rolling to see if the +5 came into play. It didn't for me so I just gave up on it... it seems it works for you though so I'm lost.

For example I would set a shapershifter's ac to 20 then keep rolling with the effect until I got anything between 12-16 on the roll. It would only count the +3 and would result in a miss regardless of the +5 being there for shapeshifters... but as I said I gave up on it.

[Trenloe]

Please provide a similar screenshot to the one I've provided, just so I can see exactly what's happening

Also, please provide a screenshot of the campaign chat window just after campaign load - so we can see the versions of the rulesets and any extensions you have loaded. It might be a version mismatch somewhere.

I wouldn't just give up on it, as this could be indicating you have a version mismatch that might cause further issues.

[ArteF]

You're not going to believe me when I say that it's working now... as in it's spitting out a new total with the +5 giving me the +8 I wanted... I guess closing and opening fantasy grounds did something, I don't know but it works now.

Just wish it worked in the first place cause I already redid everything for the new way T_T.

Alright thanks for all the help again... Going to go smash my face into a wall now.

[Trenloe]

No worries.

Step away from the wall... ;)

[MarianDz]

Anyway this thread was great lesson for all about how IF, IFT and DMG works in FG.
Thank you for good question "ArteF" which oppened this analysis. And thank you Trenloe and Zacchaeus for clarification too.