How do I give players control of NPCs?

[hyena]

I'm probably missing something obvious...

Mostly for shapeshifting druids, where I add their animal form to the combat tracker, but I can't seem to let them have control off the dicerolling. Now I'm about to start them out on the "Out of the Abyss" module, where it is recommended to give the players control over the NPCs

I've tried to drag the icon of the NPC over to the player portrait, but that doesn't seem to do anything.

What am I missing?

Any help would be appreciated :-)

[Trenloe]

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?36294-Is-it-possible-to-create-an-NPC-that-can-be-used-by-multiple-players&p=316612&viewfull=1#post316612

Have you done step #2?

[hyena]

Step 2 yes, but not step 4 (telling the player to double click the icon on the map). Will try it out next session

Thanks :-)

[Andraax]

Well, when you share an NPC with a player, it also shows up in the player's NPC list as well.

[hyena]

Thanks, good to know :-)

[Trenloe]

Well, when you share an NPC with a player, it also shows up in the player's NPC list as well.
That's only NPCs shared from the campaign data list.

In this instance, we need to share the NPC from the combat tracker so the player has control of attacks, targeting, etc.. Sharing the NPC from the combat tracker doesn't result in the NPC appearing in the campaign data lists, because the NPC record isn't in that list it's in the combat tracker. Hence the need to double-click on the token on the map to open the combat tracker linked NPC record, or don't close the sheet in the first place when the GM shares it with the player.

[Andraax]

In this instance, we need to share the NPC from the combat tracker so the player has control of attacks, targeting, etc.. Sharing the NPC from the combat tracker doesn't result in the NPC appearing in the campaign data lists, because the NPC record isn't in that list it's in the combat tracker. Hence the need to double-click on the token on the map to open the combat tracker linked NPC record, or don't close the sheet in the first place when the GM shares it with the player.

I create and share the NPC from the NPC list first, then add it to the CT and from there to the map. Player has full control, can do targeting, attacks, double click on the token opens the NPC record, etc. Plus it shows up as an NPC on the Player's NPC list as well.

[Trenloe]

I create and share the NPC from the NPC list first, then add it to the CT and from there to the map. Player has full control, can do targeting, attacks, double click on the token opens the NPC record, etc. Plus it shows up as an NPC on the Player's NPC list as well.
As mentioned above, the issue here is that the NPC in the campaign data list is *not* the same record as the NPC in the combat tracker. When you add a NPC to the combat tracker a whole new record is created by copying over the campaign data NPC - there is no link back to the original record. Opening the NPC in the campaign data list will allow you to roll attacks, etc. but will not use any targeting, effects, changes, etc. made to the "similar" NPC in the combat tracker because this record is not the one in the combat tracker. You need to access the record from the combat tracker to get the data/effects/targeting associated with the NPC in combat.

Therefore, it's not a good idea to share the record from the campaign data list with the players as it could cause confusion, result in effects not working and targeting not operating.

[Trenloe]

Here's a video I've put together highlighting the record differences I've mentioned above, and how to share a NPC with the players.

Note: The first thing I do is share from the NPC campaign data list - this is not the recommended process (reasons given in my posts above), I've done this to illustrate my point. So, ignore the sharing of the NPC from the campaign data list. Follow the instructions from 0:30 onward.

I mention in the video that this is 5E, but the process is the same for all CoreRPG based rulesets (3.5E, 4E, Pathfinder, C&C, Call of Cthulhu, etc.).


https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6oOdW6SsMwsUjdSa1pEWHg0RkU/view?usp=sharing&resourcekey=0-8stFPpuDq61BnLfev1M_lQ

[hyena]

Outstanding, that solved it. Very usefull seeing it done in a video, so I could see what I was doing differently. Turned out that the problem was that I was dragging the "B" (for bear) icon over the character portrait, instead of the shield icon :-)

[Zacchaeus]

Here's a video I've put together highlighting the record differences I've mentioned above, and how to share a NPC with the players.

Pretty disappointing that there wasn't a little camera window with you in it down the right hand corner :)

[Trenloe]

Pretty disappointing that there wasn't a little camera window with you in it down the right hand corner :)
Haha! I'm sure most of the viewers were very happy that there wasn't. ;)

[Newf]

Here's a video I've put together highlighting the record differences I've mentioned above, and how to share a NPC with the players.

Note: The first thing I do is share from the NPC campaign data list - this is not the recommended process (reasons given in my posts above), I've done this to illustrate my point. So, ignore the sharing of the NPC from the campaign data list. Follow the instructions from 0:30 onward.

I mention in the video that this is 5E, but the process is the same for all CoreRPG based rulesets (3.5E, 4E, Pathfinder, C&C, Call of Cthulhu, etc.).


https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6oOdW6SsMwsUjdSa1pEWHg0RkU

That's awesome. Thanks! Need to do what with one of my PCs Druids as well. Is there any way for them to be able to edit the creature's stats or anything?

[Trenloe]

Is there any way for them to be able to edit the creature's stats or anything?
Only the GM can edit the stats.

[Newf]

Only the GM can edit the stats.

Ok cool, that's what I figured. Thanks!

[deer_buster]

Thread necromancy -> how do you let the owning player advance the CT for the NPC?

[Zacchaeus]

Thread necromancy -> how do you let the owning player advance the CT for the NPC?

You can't. The DM still has to do that.

[Jiminimonka]

Here's a video I've put together highlighting the record differences I've mentioned above, and how to share a NPC with the players.

Note: The first thing I do is share from the NPC campaign data list - this is not the recommended process (reasons given in my posts above), I've done this to illustrate my point. So, ignore the sharing of the NPC from the campaign data list. Follow the instructions from 0:30 onward.

I mention in the video that this is 5E, but the process is the same for all CoreRPG based rulesets (3.5E, 4E, Pathfinder, C&C, Call of Cthulhu, etc.).


https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6oOdW6SsMwsUjdSa1pEWHg0RkU

I tried this out - worked perfectly with the Giant Weasel. However with my custom NPC - even though it shared it (the tick shows on the NPC in the DM side FG instance) the windows doesn't pop up showing its shared and it can't be viewed on the players side NPC listing. This is in a module I made and exported with the NPC inside. Something I need to do, like share the module to players (but then they could see the story etc.) FG Classic 5th Edition.

EDIT: If the player clicks on the token in the combat tracker, the NPC window then pops up and functions as intended.

[Milmoor]

Is it possible to let a player control part of the hostile NPC's? As help for the DM, to avoid the hive mind mentality, etc. I did some testing and it seems the answer is not really. They can only control friendly characters. Not hostile, not neutral, not faction (whatever that is). But they can attack each other when friendly. So it's possible to let the players control some of the bandits for extra chaos. Am I missing something, or is this the extend of the possibilities?

[Jiminimonka]

Is it possible to let a player control part of the PC's? As help for the DM, to avoid the hive mind mentality, etc. I did some testing and it seems the answer is not really. They can only control friendly characters. Not hostile, not neutral, not faction (whatever that is). But they can attack each other when friendly. So it's possible to let the players control some of the bandits for extra chaos. Am I missing something, or is this the extend of the possibilities?

Read this thread from the start, lots of suggestion on how to do that.

[Milmoor]

Read this thread from the start, lots of suggestion on how to do that.

Sorry, the text was confusing. I edited it to better state my intent.

[Leisure Muffin]

Is this not working in FGU? Can't seem to get it to work in unity.

[LordEntrails]

Is this not working in FGU? Can't seem to get it to work in unity.
At what step does it not work? Do you have the option Party Vision set to On?
Have you tried with ALL extensions disabled?

[Leisure Muffin]

Do you have the option Party Vision set to On?

That was it. Thanks!

[Espiem]

This doesn't appear to be working for me either. I added a custom NPC to the combat tracker, toggled it to friendly, shared it from the combat tracker to my PC, and added it to the map. However, the token on the map is not controllable by my PC. It cannot be moved, and targets cannot be selected. I can roll attacks and saves from the NPC sheet, but it doesn't target anything. I have the NPC in the party vision, and don't have any extensions to disable. Any thoughts on how to get this to work? Trying to let a druid player control a dire wolf for wild shape.

[Zacchaeus]

If you are using Unity you'll need to switch off Party Visibility and movement in order for the player to be able to control another character.

[Espiem]

How do I do that? Just right click on the PC and NPC, visibility, remove from party vision?

[Zacchaeus]

It's an option in the option list. Click the cog icon on the top right of the menu bar to open the options and then scroll down to find Party Vision and Movement.

[Espiem]

Ah, got it thanks. That did the trick. Just an FYI for anyone else looking at this, this setting needs to be toggled to On for players to be able to control the assigned NPCs.

Thanks for the help.

[tintagel]

So I've tried this following the directions very carefully, and my players can move the NPCs, open the sheet, roll traits and even see LOS and Fog of War (Options set to share party vision).

HOWEVER, they are unable to interact with the combat tab. Double-clicking attacks or damage does nothing. Not able to drag dice onto creatures, desktop or chat. Again, I've followed the directions provided:
* Drag NPC to combat tracker
* Drag NPC link from tracker to PC portrait at top. Sheet opens for PC and NPC now shows up in PC's Allies list.
* Drag NPC token to map
* PC is able to move NPC around and open the sheet by double-clicking the token. Can use traits on Traits tab without issue.
* Cal

[tintagel]

Sorry this may be in the wrong section. This is Savage Worlds, but the Google search led me here.

[Zacchaeus]

So I've tried this following the directions very carefully, and my players can move the NPCs, open the sheet, roll traits and even see LOS and Fog of War (Options set to share party vision).

HOWEVER, they are unable to interact with the combat tab. Double-clicking attacks or damage does nothing. Not able to drag dice onto creatures, desktop or chat. Again, I've followed the directions provided:
* Drag NPC to combat tracker
* Drag NPC link from tracker to PC portrait at top. Sheet opens for PC and NPC now shows up in PC's Allies list.
* Drag NPC token to map
* PC is able to move NPC around and open the sheet by double-clicking the token. Can use traits on Traits tab without issue.
* Cal
I don't know the Savage Worlds ruleset all that well but doesn't it handle allies differently - in that you can have allies attach to your character sheet or something like that?

[SilentRuin]

Just FYI - I was never able to get characters to use the NPC targeting or end turn in FGU and had to make my own workaround in the code for it. There may be some magic way to get it to work but I never found it - that is in 5E FGU.

[webdove]

It sure would be nice if you could add an NPC to party movement so players can select them, move and target without adding them to party vision. I noticed that if party vision and movement is enabled and in the radial menu you exclude an NPC from party vision that simultaneously excludes it from movement or control. Want players to not receive real-time vision from each other. I have excluded them all from party vision then created a dummy PC called "party vision" for mapping purposes.

I also created a PC familiar for the wizard's quasit which that player owns and can control but which is excluded from party vision also. Apparently because the player owns both the wizard and the quasit, they get per player shared vision without sharing that vision with other party members (which is as desired). Unfortunately, creating PC's for every summoned creature is hard.

If only the old function of dragging the NPC icon over to the player's picture gave control and targeting to that player without sharing any vision with them that would be the best solution.

[Zacchaeus]

Although the NPC can be controlled by the player it is never owned by the player. Hence the player can't do anything with it when Party Movement and Vision is set since that actually looks at the players who are connected to work (this is why if you have multiple characters you can see each different PC LoS as you noted above).

[SilentRuin]

Although the NPC can be controlled by the player it is never owned by the player. Hence the player can't do anything with it when Party Movement and Vision is set since that actually looks at the players who are connected to work (this is why if you have multiple characters you can see each different PC LoS as you noted above).

I don’t use party vision with polymorphism extension because sharing the NPC does give PC full ownership. That means you can do anything with NPC including manipulate it’s inventory with map parcel extension. Just saying full control of NPC without party vision set can definitely be done if you write or use extensions. In my games for sure.

[LordEntrails]

To me, if the NPC/familiar/ally/wildshape/poly form/etc is going to be around for awhile, it's just easier to make them a PC object. Then you don't have to worry about limits of NPC objects.

Yes there are some caveats with this that some of the extensions handle.

[Moon Wizard]

The thing about making a player the owner of a NPC node is that they have full editing control at that point as well...

JPG

[SilentRuin]

The thing about making a player the owner of a NPC node is that they have full editing control at that point as well...

JPG

Exactly. It's their pseudo PC. That shared "owned in my world" NPC had buttons and inventory tabs that can be USED. If I have a mule I've given to the party - it has an inventory that that party member can load up things in and take things out. It can also be attacked by me (DM), killed by me (DM), and robbed by me (DM). Its not some infinite invulnerable party sheet bag of holding inventory as in standard FGU. If I give them a henchman or henchcreature then they have full control to arm weapons and armor which gets updated in their main sheet (and for use by me in CT if I want it) and inventory and they have full ability to use them.

Yes, I WANT my shared NPCs to be fully operational by players that I share them too. I'm lazy. I don't want to have to do it. And if your worried about NPCs being mangled in the stats by them - then you must be in an outright panic about them mangling their PC stats and such! And while the CT NPC entry is not permanent like the PC, I create a "Player NPCs" group in the NPC button where I occasionally back up the NPC for them in case I accidently clear it out of the CT ( that way they don't lose their inventory - but the correct way is not to accidently delete it out of CT - I'm just error prone so I do this to guard against it - which is why I'm developing a combat groups extension to allow me to remove it from CT without losing all the stored CT stuff ).

Much ado about nothing to me for any worrying about them having access to the NPC as they do the PC. If I did not want them to have access I for sure would not GIVE them access. I'd control it for them - which I don't want to do. Lazy DM here.

Plus I made that "ownership" of the NPC a default ON option that you can turn off. It will still have code in to let them do end turn and targeting (as I can't see ever doing without that) but they will not be able to manipulate anything.

My reasoning is that if you trust them not to mangle or cheat with their PC's why would you not trust them not to mangle or cheat with an NPC you gave them to own?

That map parcel extension can also allow them access to drag around the token representing the parcel which is a mobile inventory on its own (that I can rob but not destroy). Personally, its more for permanent storage for the players in maps and such - though some use it to be a cart they drag around. I prefer the NPC storage option because it allows me (DM) to actually damage it and kill it without doing anything special. Lazy DM.

[LordEntrails]

I believe JPG's statement is a simple warning, to make sure anyone who does such is fully aware of the implications. Like if you shared a Lion with a player and they owned it, they could change the stats without the GM knowing. If the GM then used that lion in an encounter, it might no longer be what the GM expected it to be. Just an FYI so that folks are aware their are implications to changing default behavior. Not that folks can't/shouldn't do so for their own needs/wants.

[SilentRuin]

I believe JPG's statement is a simple warning, to make sure anyone who does such is fully aware of the implications. Like if you shared a Lion with a player and they owned it, they could change the stats without the GM knowing. If the GM then used that lion in an encounter, it might no longer be what the GM expected it to be. Just an FYI so that folks are aware their are implications to changing default behavior. Not that folks can't/shouldn't do so for their own needs/wants.

Its a CT entry. Maybe your not understanding what I'm saying. When you share an NPC its got to be on the CT and friendly. Just part of the rules. So when you do that the only thing you will be "changing" is the CT entry. If you share something from the CT it is with the intent the player control it. Like a PC. Now a lion - like a mule - really does not have anything that a player should be messing with. But if you gave it to him - you risk the CT entry being messed with. Just like giving a player a PC risks them messing with it. Neither should be done. Both can be done without the GM realizing it. So if you don't trust a player to not mess with things - too late. They have the PC to mess with. Giving them control of an NPC is no different.

I'm not sure how that can be logically reasoned that it is. If you don't trust them not to mess with things out of the GM's attention then... game over man. Game over! Adding a CT NPC entry into the mix on that - well - 1/2 glass full argument to me. If the CT NPC entry is part of the encounter - not sure why you would pass it onto a player unless they were doing something for you like being a 2nd DM helping you run NPCs. In which case, yeah - you'd want full control.

And to repeat something I added in my last reply pretty late... And while the CT NPC entry is not permanent like the PC, I create a "Player NPCs" group in the NPC button where I occasionally back up the NPC for them in case I accidently clear it out of the CT ( that way they don't lose their inventory - but the correct way is not to accidently delete it out of CT - I'm just error prone so I do this to guard against it - which is why I'm developing a combat groups extension to allow me to remove it from CT without losing all the stored CT stuff ).

That insures I don't lose anything due to my incompetency as a DM (yeah its a thing for me).

[LordEntrails]

@Silent Ruin. I get it. But I don't think you get my point. It's not so much a warning for you, but for others. You understand what you are doing and are making changes consciously. Others might come alone and not put such careful consideration into what they do and be surprised by the results :)

[SilentRuin]

@Silent Ruin. I get it. But I don't think you get my point. It's not so much a warning for you, but for others. You understand what you are doing and are making changes consciously. Others might come alone and not put such careful consideration into what they do and be surprised by the results :)

Ah, thought we were talking specifically about my changes. Yes, any LUA code assignment of ownership to things can seriously mess things up. Agreed. Trial by fire and experimentation - I know :)

[webdove]

My goal is that players in combat have to clear the fog of war themselves or perhaps with their familiar. Outside of combat a "party vision" PC stores where they have all had vision. I think I can make this work by enabling party vision and movement, but individually disabling it for each friendly PC and NPC except for the "party vision" PC. Here is a table of experiments I just performed.

Party vision and movement is enabled. PC's & NPC's are (mostly) removed from party vision.
Owned means the PC belongs to the player.
NPC dragged to portrait supposedly grants control. This seems to have no effect except opening the character sheet for the client.

41420

[SilentRuin]

My goal is that players in combat have to clear the fog of war themselves or perhaps with their familiar. Outside of combat a "party vision" PC stores where they have all had vision. I think I can make this work by enabling party vision and movement, but individually disabling it for each friendly PC and NPC except for the "party vision" PC. Here is a table of experiments I just performed.

Party vision and movement is enabled. PC's & NPC's are (mostly) removed from party vision.
Owned means the PC belongs to the player.
NPC dragged to portrait supposedly grants control. This seems to have no effect except opening the character sheet for the client.

41420

All sharing an NPC to PC means is you get to move it around (with the option set) and hit the attack/damage stuff in the main page text. That's as designed in normal FGU without extensions.

[webdove]

I may have to move the players NPC ally since they won't see through those eyes, but the player can drag attack to the combat tracker or rely on telepathic communication (through me) to guide the NPC.

[eyeboxone]

After reading this entire thread I am leaning towards a companion being an owned PC. I have an Artificer and just reached level 3 so I have two companions, Homunculus and an Eldritch Cannon. The NPC route appears to leave some work to the DM and it just seems odd that I would let work for my companions fall to the DM. The fact that I can't advance the turn for my companions is a big one. I can't adjust the HP for my companions when I level so that means my DM has to do it for me. I also can't interact with an NPC sheet the same way you would with a normal PC sheet. I could see a situation where I craft a Homunculus with a bag of holding. Essentially making it a mule. The NPC isn't option unless I used an extension like Map Parcel.

The PC route seems to come down to trust over inflating something on the PC sheet. Well if trust is an issue then my DM probably doesn't want me in the game anyway.

Am I missing something?

[Griogre]

Probably not. An NPC is fine for something that is static and doesn't really change like a familiar. It could go either way on something that just changes one stat on character level like a Necromancer's zombies or skeletons, but if it is something that has a lot of changes every level then a PC is probably best. Given the LOS situation with FGU that would push it more towards being setup as a PC as well.

[eyeboxone]

Thanks Griogre.

[ZoranDob]

Is this method still working in FGU? I have followed the instructions correctly and the PC can double click the NPC token to bring up the sheet, but they cannot make the token move anywhere. Is there something else needed or it just doesnt function anymore? Thanks.

[Zacchaeus]

Is this method still working in FGU? I have followed the instructions correctly and the PC can double click the NPC token to bring up the sheet, but they cannot make the token move anywhere. Is there something else needed or it just doesnt function anymore? Thanks.

You need to switch on the Party Vision and movement option in FGU if you want players to be able to move the NPC tokens.

[ZoranDob]

You need to switch on the Party Vision and movement option in FGU if you want players to be able to move the NPC tokens.

Of course the problem with that is any PC can move any token and see what that token can see. I am trying to have a PC control a familiar. Is there maybe an extension or something that can help here.

EDIT> I just found one of your videos on sharing NPCs from last year and that is what I have been trying. Have things changed since then so it no longer works?

[Zacchaeus]

That video was made a while ago and was made for Classic. So, yes, things have changed in Unity. As noted if you want them to control the NPCs you'll need to switch in Party vision. You could look into this extension https://forge.fantasygrounds.com/shop/items/170/view

[ZoranDob]

Thanks Zacchaeus. That extension did the trick. Much appreciated.