Red Brand Hide Out Quandary

[mhorgunn]

So ... come Tuesday the party is returning to the Red Brand Hide Out. They gave in to the pleadings of the Woodworker family to escort them back to town. They took time to resupply and get healed. This would of given time to Glasstaff to set up an ambush. He has 2 skeletons, four Red Brands and the Nothic on his side. Just with his fireball spells (if he has the opportunity to get them off) could cause a TPK. The party has cut him off so they sort of have him cornered.

So how many of you would pull the trigger?

[JohnD]

Poor choices should be rewarded accordingly.

[hyena]

I definatly would pull the trigger. After my party suffered a TPK in the goblin dungeon they learned not to take long rests in the middle of dungeons. If you know your players would get really upset about it, you could possibly rule that Glasstaff chickens out and uses Invisibilty to sneak out (but make sure to add him to the boss fight in Cragmaw Castle, for fairness sake). If they left a few of their number behind to guard the exit, ambush those left behind (at least that won't be a TPK, just a PPK, and let Glasstaff flee with all remaining treasures... Don't coddle your players. It's more fun in the long run if the players feel they worked for their victories :-)

[ddavison]

You could also have a villager or the little kid that knows about their hideout "overhear" that they have a nasty ambush planned for them if they return. If they still march right in, then you can't say you didn't warn them.

[hyena]

You could also have a villager or the little kid that knows about their hideout "overhear" that they have a nasty ambush planned for them if they return. If they still march right in, then you can't say you didn't warn them.

That's a really good solution :-)

[mhorgunn]

Thank you for your suggestions. I have planned upon reflection, to use Droop the goblin that they took with them to give a warning about how powerful Glasstaff is. They are entering the secret passage to the mage's quarters. Had they done this instead of escorting the prisoners they would have literally caught him napping. Of course I would have had to to done something one way or the other to the Carpenter's family if had just let them go.
You know ... "Damned if you do... damned if you don't " factor.
You are right though... they need to be warned. I just worry ... I've got one player that needs things spelled out pretty bluntly.

[Varsuuk]

"T-P-K"

;)

Couldn't help it, sorry, carry on...

[JohnD]

You are right though... they need to be warned. I just worry ... I've got one player that needs things spelled out pretty bluntly.

A sword in your stomach or a powerful spell should be blunt enough.

[mhorgunn]

Glasstaff has 3 fireball spells ...
BOOM!
"I'm sorry Old Man ... I didn't quite get that."
BOOM!
"I'm sorry ... One more time...
BOOM!
"Oh ... You don't say ... Ouch!

[Dracius]

Glasstaff has 3 fireball spells ...


May I ask why you made him a 6th level caster?

Glasstaff is normally only a 4th level caster and has no 3rd level spell slots so he shouldn't be able to cast Fireball at all, let alone 3 times.

He does have scroll of Fireball in his treasure that some DM's like to have him cast:


TREASURE
At the foot of Iarno's bed is a sturdy, unlocked wooden chest holding the best pickings of the Redbrands' loot over the last two months. It contains 180 sp, 130 gp, and a silk pouch containing five carnelians (10 gp each), two peridots (15 gp each), and one pearl (100 gp). It also contains two magic items that larno brought with him from Neverwinter: a scroll of charm person and a scroll of fireball.

Which he'd have to make a DC check in order to use and also denies the group of that item as a reward.

[mhorgunn]

Glasstaff was bumped up due to the fact that the player characters have had a few side adventures and are now 3rd level cutting a path through a wall of human flesh ( dragging their canoe behind them.) The party now has 6 characters ... 7 if you include Droop their new Goblin retainer. The barbarian is an utter terror that seems lucky enough to roll an inordinate number of criticals. When it came to the Sleeping Giant encounter, they killed the Red Brands ... easy peasie even with the ultimate hp option turned on. And that was when they were four.
That is why I bumped Glasstaff up two levels.

[JohnD]

Keep in mind that you're operating in a confined area... a fireball could easily consume the caster and much of the surrounding area as well.

[mhorgunn]

Ok ... so they made it through Glasstaff's quarters and the common room. They have captured one of the Red Brands ... only three left and sides are drawn up and if nothing else the decisions try make will be interesting. One way or the other tomorrow the hammer drops.

[mhorgunn]

Keep in mind that you're operating in a confined area... a fireball could easily consume the caster and much of the surrounding area as well.

Absolutely ... while the crevasse is the largest area in the complex if Glasstaff is not extremely careful where he places the center there is a lot that can go wrong. I've already run the round pointer. He could take damage ... his men ... and the Nothic in the pit. That alone could cause the Nothic to turn on Glasstaff. Wouldn't that be a pretty picture! This could go wrong in so many ways.

[rhammer2]

Sorry, but unless you are using a house rule variant, the fire for the fireball cannot expand beyond 20 feet from the point of explosion. Back blast was a standard rule from version 1 & 2, but starting with 3rd edition, fireball no longer had a volume based AoE.
As long as Glasstaff keeps the point of explosion more than 20 feet from his allies, he does not have to worry about close quarters.

- Robert

[mhorgunn]

Sorry, but unless you are using a house rule variant, the fire for the fireball cannot expand beyond 20 feet from the point of explosion. Back blast was a standard rule from version 1 & 2, but starting with 3rd edition, fireball no longer had a volume based AoE.
As long as Glasstaff keeps the point of explosion more than 20 feet from his allies, he does not have to worry about close quarters.

- Robert

Agreed but at a 20' radius that fireball covers about 3/4 of the area. A chance misjudgment could take out some of the Red Brands and would definitely get the attention of the Nothic in the crevasse. Remember the fireball is a sphere and this room's ceiling is 20' high and the crevasse is the same down. Also Because the Nothic is constantly hiding, Glasstaff cannot be sure of it's position. It might not singe it but I can not imagine it would make it happy.

[mhorgunn]

So in Fantasy Grounds ... how do you run the mechanics of placing the fireball? Do you let them draw out the circle and let them adjust the circle's position? Or do you make them choose a point and draw the circle from there?

[Nylanfs]

I like using the chunky salsa rules from SR for confined blasts. :)

[mhorgunn]

i like using the chunky salsa rules from sr for confined blasts. :)
lol!!!!

[Trenloe]

So in Fantasy Grounds ... how do you run the mechanics of placing the fireball? Do you let them draw out the circle and let them adjust the circle's position? Or do you make them choose a point and draw the circle from there?
Let them draw and position. The player could always count squares before anyway, so you're not stopping accurate placement by doing it the other way. It speeds up play to let them draw and position.

[LordEntrails]

Let them draw and position. The player could always count squares before anyway, so you're not stopping accurate placement by doing it the other way. It speeds up play to let them draw and position.
This is the same reasoning and process I allow.

[Tibius]

I ran LMoP last year my very first time to DM.. They had a total party kill in the redbrand hideout.. I just let it happen.. they were way too overconfident and did it to themselves.. what I did to handle this was Glasstaff healed them... brought back the dead ones to life and sold them to the Drow.. They woke up in the underdark in a slave prison cell .. took them 3 sessions to escape, and travel back up to Phandelver.They lost their gold and most of their possessions.. Afterwards.. they used pretty good tactics and learned sometimes its best to retreat and configure a new strategy..

[mhorgunn]

I ran LMoP last year my very first time to DM.. They had a total party kill in the redbrand hideout.. I just let it happen.. they were way too overconfident and did it to themselves.. what I did to handle this was Glasstaff healed them... brought back the dead ones to life and sold them to the Drow.. They woke up in the underdark in a slave prison cell .. took them 3 sessions to escape, and travel back up to Phandelver.They lost their gold and most of their possessions.. Afterwards.. they used pretty good tactics and learned sometimes its best to retreat and configure a new strategy..

Finally ran it last night. Glasstaff got off one fireball and downed two characters. They took their planning seriously. They had a secret pow wow and came up with seven different plans. I think the Nothic was the true terror almost wiping out the rest of the party.

The one that fared the best was the little cast away goblin, Droop. I hope to keep him around. He makes good comic relief. Funny the players were talking about their experience of eating dog, but got squeamish when Droop ate Glasstaff's rat familiar. Droop's response? "Tastes like elf."