Running Star Wars on Fantasy Grounds?

[Quickeaf]

Hi everyone! Aaron here, also known as Quickleaf among gamers on the web.

I've been a Roll20 user for a couple years and while there's some cool functionality, I was spending about 3 times my normal game prep just figuring everything out and setting up my games. That left me really burnout.

Now, I'm looking at options for running FFG's Star Wars system (e.g. Edge of the Empire) online. Researching Roll20, I found that I'd need a Pro membership ($9.99/month) to simply get character sheets with buttons on them that roll Star Wars dice.

How does Fantasy Grounds compare for running Star Wars?

Specifically:
How many users on Fantasy Grounds are playing FFG Star Wars? By comparison, in Roll20 about 11% of a 65,000 sample of 2 million players were playing Star Wars. Source: https://blog.roll20.net/post/156907010215/the-orr-group-industry-report-q4-2016
What level of subscription would I need to GM Star Wars in Fantasy Grounds? How much would it cost?
I saw there is a user-created ruleset for Star Wars. Are these easy to install? Do they actually work? Is there a certain catch or a certain membership level required to use them?


Thanks in advance!

[vodokar]

Hi. Quickeaf.

How does Fantasy Grounds compare for running Star Wars? As compared to Roll 20? The same as running pretty much anything on Fantasy Grounds compared to Roll20. Better. But, I'm a little biased.

I can tell you, however, the Star Wars ruleset is developed by one of our most talented community developers, Trenloe; also a jolly good person and elder statesmen of the community. You definitely won't go wrong there.

I am uncertain as to the actual uptake of Star Wars in the community, but can tell you, in general, that between 5e and Pathfinder, that accounts for about 85% plus of games played here, with every other game fighting it out for that last 10 - 15 %. But, that's the same on Roll20 or any other place, pretty much. It's just the way things seem to be. That doesn't mean you can't or won't find someone to play with; it just means you need to be a little more patient, determined and proactive.

What do you need to DM? Only the "Standard" licence, which costs you either a one time fee of $40.00 or a monthly subscription of, I think, $2.00 a month. If someone at Roll20 or elsewhere told you it cost more than that, it was simply disinformation.

Again, welcome. If you have further questions, I'm sure more of the gang will be along shortly to greet you.

[Wookiee420]

i can tell you i would LOVE to play if you run a game!!!

[Quickeaf]

@vodokar Ah, great to hear that Trenloe has a good place in this community. I could tell from the videos he put out on the Star Wars ruleset that he was really doing it as an act of service, for love of the game.

Hmm. Is there any user data collected by Fantasy Grounds that's shared? Like the Orr Industry Report I linked in my post?

@Wookiee420 Haha, well thanks! I actually used to live in Colorado but I'm now in Hawaii...being 2-3 hours behind PST (no daylight savings in Hawaii so it alters) makes scheduling a real pain-in-the-rancor. So for now I'm contenting myself with setting up a play-by-post game until I can manifest one face-to-face or via a VTT.

[vodokar]

Here is the most recent numbers. https://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?3507-Who-s-Playing-What-on-Fantasy-Grounds#.WL-PC_nyuUk

It looks like I was slightly off. 5e + Pathfinder is about 70%, not 85%. Lot's of different games are being played here. Just that there are a couple very large gorillas in the room we need to keep out from underfoot.

That being said, in general, as every place else, for any game, the issue usually isn't finding players. It is a shortage of Game Masters. As you are one, I am sure that "if you build it, they will come."

I might even be interested in playing if can find a schedule that meshes.

[Quickeaf]

Here is the most recent numbers. https://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?3507-Who-s-Playing-What-on-Fantasy-Grounds#.WL-PC_nyuUk

It looks like I was slightly off. 5e + Pathfinder is about 70%, not 85%. Lot's of different games are being played here. Just that there are a couple very large gorillas in the room we need to keep out from underfoot.

Ah, cool! Well, to be fair, I play D&D so I'm guilty of being in with the 1,000 pound gorilla in the room.

So...how do I interpret these results?

I'm assuming it's a sample size and not total absolute numbers?

6,427 (2%). Are these numbers of players or numbers of games?

If number of players, it's comparable to Roll20's 7,220 (11%) Star Wars players.

If number of games, that would be crazy compared to Roll20's 1,590 Star Wars games.

[Trenloe]

6,427 (2%). Are these numbers of players or numbers of games?
That is the total number of gaming sessions ran using the Star Wars EotE ruleset in 2016.

[vodokar]

Right. My understanding is that SmiteWorks is able to somehow actually monitor when a Game Master opens an online session with players connected and what ruleset they are using. So, those are actual numbers of real games played and not simply some type of user survey response.

[Quickeaf]

That is the total number of gaming sessions ran using the Star Wars EotE ruleset in 2016.

Brilliant. Btw, thank you so much for the work you've put in on the Fantasy Grounds ruleset for Star Wars!

[Quickeaf]

Right. My understanding is that SmiteWorks is able to somehow actually monitor when a Game Master opens an online session with players connected and what ruleset they are using. So, those are actual numbers of real games played and not simply some type of user survey response.

Very cool. So with Fantasy Grounds...would the players in my Star Wars need to buy subscriptions/copies of Fantasy Grounds as well? If so, at what level?

[vodokar]

Standard License allows you to host other players who also have a standard license.

Ultimate License allows you to host players who don't possess a license at all i.e. demo users.

Here is the skinny on that:

You only would consider getting an Ultimate License if a) you have already a group of friends that you want to play with and can't convince them to get their own standard licenses (or they are going to chip in to help you purchase the Ultimate license because it might be cheaper than each player buying their own standard license) or b) which is often the case for us longstanders, we have Ultimate because we want to be welcoming to new people coming to Fantasy Grounds and teach the newbies.

If you don't fit one of those two use cases, you really don't need anything more than standard at this point.

Nonetheless, I'll provide the information anyways: Ultimate costs $150 or $10.00 per month. Standard can be upgraded to Ultimate at any time for $110 or activating the ultimate subscription.

Just to be clear: Ultimate does not imply you get more content. It only provides the ability to host free players. That is all.

As such, unless you personally have friends in your gaming group willing to take up a collection to purchase an ultimate license or subscription, I would 100% recommend sticking with the Standard at this point.

[damned]

You can try the $10 ultimate subscription out and if you dont like it cancel before the month is out and get a refund.
If you do like it have your players tip in a few bucks a month to pay for your ongoing subscription.
If you are always the GM that is the easiest/cheapest way to do it.

[Nylanfs]

Also note that in Steam you can get a 4 for 3 price bundle of standard licenses.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/252690/

look for "Buy Fantasy Grounds Four Pack"

[LordEntrails]

That is the total number of gaming sessions ran using the Star Wars EotE ruleset in 2016.
Trenloe,
I thought that the FG statistics only counted games when an Ultimate license was used to host? I thought that if all players had standard licenses, then the FG server was never contacted and no statistics were gathered. Is that not the case?

[Moon Wizard]

Nope, the statistics are generated for any session opened on FG, but we only count sessions that get at least one player in our statistics we generate in order to cull out preparation mode activities. This also precludes data from people using as GM helper at live table, but there's only so much we can guess at. ;)

JPG

[LordEntrails]

Nope, the statistics are generated for any session opened on FG, but we only count sessions that get at least one player in our statistics we generate in order to cull out preparation mode activities. This also precludes data from people using as GM helper at live table, but there's only so much we can guess at. ;)

JPG
Ah, ok.Thanks and good to know how it actually works :)

[Nylanfs]

John, didn't you and Doug say that these stats only count the Ultimate licenses and games using the alias system, and couldn't include games using the direct IP addresses?

[Quickeaf]

You can try the $10 ultimate subscription out and if you dont like it cancel before the month is out and get a refund.
If you do like it have your players tip in a few bucks a month to pay for your ongoing subscription.
If you are always the GM that is the easiest/cheapest way to do it.

Thanks for the tip, I'll check it out!

[Moon Wizard]

In prior years, that's all the data we had.

We improved the reporting last year to provide better visibility into game system, extension, module and option usage.

Regards,
JPG

[Quickeaf]

So, the Demo isn't working for me. There's a Mac version right?

I clicked the Downloads > Demo tab, then I download a .exe file which is for Microsoft Windows.

EDIT: I see there may be a Steam version, but on principle I try to avoid Steam due to their DRM.

[Moon Wizard]

We usually recommend that people use the Steam version for Mac, because the Steam installer can install an entire Wine package which includes the FG DLC updater and application.

If you want to install on Mac directly, you will need to look at these threads:
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?17399
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?16758

Cheers,
JPG

[damned]

Use the first of those links.

[LordEntrails]

EDIT: obsolete

[Quickeaf]

We usually recommend that people use the Steam version for Mac, because the Steam installer can install an entire Wine package which includes the FG DLC updater and application.

If you want to install on Mac directly, you will need to look at these threads:
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?17399
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?16758

Cheers,
JPG

Thanks, JPG. Well, I looked at it. Installing Wineskin is easy. Then I got to this part and my eyes bled...


Installing Fantasy Grounds II

Launch the Wineskin Winery.app from Applications (either from the Dock or Finder)
Open Safari or another Web browser and download the FGWebInstall.exe from the Fantasy Grounds web site (Downloads page). Note the location of the downloaded file (on my systems its ~/Downloads)
In Wineskin Winery, add a Wine engine by clicking the + symbol and select from the available Wine engine releases in the new dialog, click Download and Install. I have tested FGII with both Wine 1.5.13 - 1.5.21 (latest version 1.5.25 does not work). Select 1.5.21 unless you really prefer an earlier 1.5 release.
Back in Wineskin Winery update the Wrapper version to Wineskin-2.5.8 (latest version)
Once updated, click Create New Blank Wrapper.
In the new dialog that opens, enter a name for the .app file we are about to create (note by default the .app file is created in ~/Applications/Wineskin/). Enter something like Fantasy Grounds II. Click OK.
The wrapper file is now being created; you may see a couple of dialogs complaining that Mono and Gecko are not installed, prompting you to do so. You can safely click cancel for both of these. Mono implements a .NET 2.0 framework whilst Gecko is Wine's alternative to IE. Both of these components are not required to run FGII.
Once completed, a dialog will appear stating the wrapper creation has finished. Click OK.
Close the Wineskin Winery.app
Navigate to ~/Applications/Wineskin/Fantasy Grounds II.app in Finder. Right Click the file and select 'Show Package Contents'.
Open the Wineskin.app file contained within and click the Install Software button when the dialog appears.
Click the 'Choose Setup Executable' button, navigate to the downloaded FGWebInstall.exe file you downloaded earlier and select it.
The FGII EULA should appear. Read and then Click 'I Agree' to continue
A second dialog window will open entitled Settings.
Enter your license/upgrade key information into the appropriate fields - this is not mandatory step as not entering any key information will result in an Unregistered install.
Make sure the 'Cross-platform compatibility mode for Linux and Mac' option is checked
If you have a registered account on the FGII forums/store, click the Update button. A small username/password window will appear. On successful verification, you should see a list of FGII products appear in the Products window.
Make sure the 'Live' option is selected under 'Mode' - this will install the latest general release of Fantasy Grounds II (currently 2.9.1)
Click OK, the FGII updater window will open and it should automatically begin downloading the latest updates. The initial setup will take a few mins as all the base rulesets and latest binaries are downloaded.
Once completed the Fantasy Grounds II Launcher window will appear.
Close FGII.
If for any reason, your licence did not take and you have an unregistered version installed. Simply click the Activate License button at the bottom of the Launcher window and re-enter your key. The update process will restart, when completed you should have a registered full/lite/ultimate version.
If for any reason The launcher fails to load and you are presented with a Could not load base.xml error, click No and when prompted for the path to the executable select /Program Files/Fantasy Grounds II/FantasyGrounds.exe.
Move the Fantasy Grounds II.app file from ~/Applications/Wineskin to /Applications (system wide Applications path)
Optional: You can change the Fantasy Grounds II.app icon by right clicking and choosing Get Info or by opening the Wineskin.app and selecting Advanced - both enable you to change the .app icon from the default Wineskin icon.
Thats it! Your good to go.

[Quickeaf]

Way too complicated for my tastes. And I don't like supporting Steam because of its unethical DRM practices.

So, I guess Fantasy Grounds isn't an option for me, sadly.

[Trenloe]

Thanks, JPG. Well, I looked at it. Installing Wineskin is easy. Then I got to this part and my eyes bled...
That's why Moon Wizard said: "We usually recommend that people use the Steam version for Mac, because the Steam installer can install an entire Wine package which includes the FG DLC updater and application."

If you don't want to use Steam then there may be some eye bleeding upcoming... ;)

[LordEntrails]

There are multiple options to running FG on a Mac. But if you don't want to use any of them, we will be sorry to not have you join us.

If you run into any problems trying the Wine install, you can always ask for help. We're a pretty helpful lot here.

[vodokar]

Back when I was running on a mac, I used VMware Fusion. Costs a little more, but well worth it for the lack of eye-bleeding. Considering the costs of healthcare these days, you end up saving money.

[Bidmaron]

I use parallels. Works like a charm. Just like using windows (since I have windows 7 installed)

What is unethical about their drm anyway?

[Quickeaf]

That's why Moon Wizard said: "We usually recommend that people use the Steam version for Mac, because the Steam installer can install an entire Wine package which includes the FG DLC updater and application."

If you don't want to use Steam then there may be some eye bleeding upcoming... ;)

Haha. Love it. You must be British? I can feel the dry humor. :) I'll see, maybe this weekend I'll try to tackle the install with Wine. I've looked at it twice so far and each time I just ended up cringing. I did BootCamp on my laptop, which I guess is a form of drive partition, though not on my home computer; that was a headache and a half, and I only rarely use it, but I should be able to switch over to Windows and try it out that way.


I use parallels. Works like a charm. Just like using windows (since I have windows 7 installed)

What is unethical about their drm anyway?

I've tried Parallels. For the software I was using though (design intensive stuff like Revit and Maya), Parallels really didn't cut it. That why I did BootCamp, but then the pain of restarting and I only use the Windows side when absolutely necessary.

DRM is a long tangled topic, but I'll try to give my view concisely: It's great that companies want to cut down on piracy, but when their efforts start making it harder for me to play their game, which I paid for, I think I'll just play some other developers game. And CDProjektRed, a Polish game development company, is a good example of why you don't need DRM to avoid piracy. Any more than that and we'd be getting into a whooooole other tangent.

[Quickeaf]

As an aside, I wanted to say how much I appreciate the open friendly conversation and advice folks have offered here.

I've been a Roll20 Plus member since 2013, but when I started asking about the limits of Roll20 and what other VTTs are capable of, I received a warning from the moderators and a threat to be banned for violating their Terms of Use. :confused: For "advertising." :confused: What a great example of how to estrange a customer.

[Bidmaron]

We are pretty open here about complementing and competing products. Ultimately, that may be because SW is pretty confident that their product is superior.

[LordEntrails]

As an aside, I wanted to say how much I appreciate the open friendly conversation and advice folks have offered here.

I've been a Roll20 Plus member since 2013, but when I started asking about the limits of Roll20 and what other VTTs are capable of, I received a warning from the moderators and a threat to be banned for violating their Terms of Use. :confused: For "advertising." :confused: What a great example of how to estrange a customer.
I hear this a few times a year (over the last 2 years). It's so alien to me and such an obvious mistake for a company to take such a stand that it still continues to baffle me.

I guess it just heartens me that I made the right decision with FG.

[Trenloe]

Haha. Love it. You must be British?
I am indeed. :)

[vodokar]

... and we love him anyway ...

[damned]

I hear this a few times a year (over the last 2 years). It's so alien to me and such an obvious mistake for a company to take such a stand that it still continues to baffle me.

I guess it just heartens me that I made the right decision with FG.

However it seems to work more for them than against them. Many roll20 users are 100% oblivious to the existence of competing products...

[vodokar]

A blind person doesn't know they are blind until you tell them.

[Asterionaisien]

Free>>quality. You cannot compete with that.
Roll20 has more customers, but I would be curious to know what % of them are supporting ones.
As a user of both, and having introduced FG different people, I would say that roll20 is at first glance more intuitive, but after people understand how FG works, they are amazed from the possibilities. I know of a couple people waiting for a sale on standard licenses so they can use FG for their live table.
I have no evidence supporting this, but I'm pretty sure FG would eat away the competition IF they would be willing to create something similar to roll20 offers. This is just my opinion, please dont take it as a form of disrespect. :)

[vodokar]

Contrary to the general internet, we always try to assume the best in people here and allow them the space to have their personal takes on things without getting their heads cut off.

There was a period of about a year that I left FG and tried out Roll20. It is true that they have a good marketing scheme to draw people in. However, I mostly went there because one of my players kept saying how much they liked it over FG, mostly because of stability reasons; stability issues that I was having mostly because of things I hadn't learned yet in maxing the stability of FG. I gave it a pretty fair and decent shot; but was not impressed with it's capabilities - other than the dynamic lighting stuff, which was way cool. Ultimately, I could see someone feeling that Roll20 is good enough as a free tool. But, I don't think it's worth putting money into, whereas FG is.

fG does have a demo, which is actually usable for a very long time if you can get into a game with an Ultimate GM. Beyond that, I don't really know what you would do.

[Asterionaisien]

The problem is the entrance fee before becoming a "fan". Not everyone like to spend money upfront, or to input his credit card info for the 100% refund, or to cut a sizeable portion of his income (not everyone is from a first world country).
Even if the above issues aren't a real problem, the demo version is too limited to entice a casual observer.
Personal experience, more than one person whom I taught how to use FG was surprised that he could not save/export his character.
To not let people feel excluded from the community, the limitations should be about saving capabilities, not about connection ones.
For example:
- Demo version: has access to all SRD and core rpg (D&D 5 /Path/ 4ed/ numenera ecc) BUT he can save only ONE char at time. No export. Cannot buy Store content.
-standard version: as above, but he can access all rulesets, included the community ones. Can save and export up to 3 characters.
-Ultimate: Do whatever you want.
Those are just quick thoughts, please take them with a grain of salt, I'm not a businessman. I recognize they are a paradigm shift, do not be hard on me :)

[Trenloe]

Personal experience, more than one person whom I taught how to use FG was surprised that he could not save/export his character.
Players can save export/characters with the demo version. They do this from within "Manage Characters".

[Asterionaisien]

Really? :square:
I did not know it at all! Well thank you very much, maybe my next games will be easier now..
I feel like I had something hidden in plain sight.. I almost never play, just DM, so i admit I didn't checked the button once. I feel somewhat stupid ;)
Really on Fantasy Grounds you never stop to learn.
Well, then my points on my last post are not valid anymore, anyway I hope you got the "spirit" behind them :)

[vodokar]

Of course, Asterionaisien. The dividing line between the Demo and Standard is essentially access to being DM and all that pertains to that, such as being able to read modules. They can still make characters and save them. I could be incorrect, but I think they can even install rulesets, such as a community ruleset, so they can then make characters for it when not connected to the DM. They just can't create a campaign with it.

[wingspan99]

Has anyone managed to import the data from OggDude's tools into the Fantasy Grounds ruleset?

[viresanimi]

I think it is safe to say... "no".

[wingspan99]

Ah well... Worth a try.