Buying Bundles etc.

[Dax Doomslayer]

Hi Folks,
Another dumb question on the character sheets. In all the tutorials I've seen, there is a good deal of data entry to add abilities. If you purchase the pre-inputted books (i.e. PHB; DMG; MM; etc) is there any automation (i.e. pick an ability from a drop down list etc) as opposed to having to enter the information yourself. I know you can drag and drop the full ability into one of the sub-radial choices by clicking on the shield icon thingy but say if I'm adding the Dwarven poison resistance or using the sneak attack for the thief, is that entered manually or do I need to do the commands (i.e. RESIST:poison) found in the 5E Effects on the FG Wiki. My fear is that there'd be a lot of clerical (not meaning the pious spell slinger but more administrative) errors. Also, I believe I heard that once you enter something, it's available always to use. So if I say purchase an adventure, anything new (i.e. magic items; monsters etc) can be accessed in the future. Finally, if I buy the complete WoTC bundle now, and then want to buy the Tales from the Yawning Portal next, do I get that 25% discount on that adventure? My apologies for all these questions I've been cluttering up the message board with. Thanks.

[LordEntrails]

Lots of questions, no problem. Not sure I will have answers for all of them though.

- Automation from purchased books: You drag and drop onto the character sheet, rather than any pulldown. Not sure what else you are asking here... Not everything is automated, even when you drag and drop. In those cases it has to be inputted manually as detailed in the Wiki. You can make administrative errors.
- Once you purchase/install an adventure, you can always activate it again and copy items/NPC's from it into any campaign of the same ruleset as the module.
- Yes, once you complete the bundle, all future purchases (as new things come out) qualify for the bundle.

[GarthGiantbane]

Hi,

5E Effects like the examples you gave would have to be created each time a character sheet needed them. But once they are added to the action tab of the character, they would always be available to the character unless deleted. Building effects is a huge subject but learnable if you take it in pieces. Both the wiki and searching the forum usually yields a clear example of how to create them. Additionally, there's some other good resources available.

I recommend Zaccheaus' serices of character sheets "A Complete X" X being the class of interest. He made all of the class effects up to level 20 for each of the listed classes. You can find them here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?27296-Guides-videos-and-other-helpful-information

Rob2E has a great .mod file of effects, you can get it on the DMSGuild. Over 200 effects I think.

There's another - the Effect Wizard.ext - that might help for creating and/or seeing examples of effect syntax. Find it here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?35301-New-Extensions-Effect-Wizard-for-v3-2-x&highlight=effect+wizard

I hope this was part of what you were asking.

[Trenloe]

There's a good overview video on how drag/drop works in 5E here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nurEMR4JJeUCreating

[Dax Doomslayer]

Hi Folks, thanks for all this information. Lord, thanks for answering my questions. Also, I really liked that tutorial too Trenloe - so thanks for that - they were well done. Also, those recommendations / links are interesting Garth. A question on Rob Twohy's effects (he did a bunch of them). If you buy the books, wouldn't this be included with that or is that not the case and this is beyond that. For a dollar each, I'm fine just getting them I think if it is additional "stuff" that makes it just a drag and drop type of thing. Also, how would these be added / show up. Do they show up as a custom pack or something in the library? Thanks.

[GarthGiantbane]

Rob's Effects package is a module (.mod) so you copy it to your Module folder in Fantasy Grounds directory structure and then you could open it in your library. After that the effects show up in the Effects window (the little man in the small set of buttons in the top right of the desktop). FG with the 5E ruleset has about 15 or 20 of effects already linked and the window has a big white space where GM's can record their own effects. Rob's show up in this window. You can search it to quickly drill down to the effect you are looking for.

I've not seen how it looks on the player side so I don't know if they show up for players or not. But the GM is typically the one applying effects to the characters in the combat tracker during a fight. If it's something that needs to be added to a character's sheet then the GM could use Rob's effect as an example of the syntax to create one on the sheet.

[Dax Doomslayer]

Thanks Garth. So that does sound useful. What about some of the other things like "Race Ability Mod & Key Class Features"; "Spells & Cantrips Known, Prepared per Class" and "Feat List w/Benefits"? Do these do anything beyond what the WoTC complete bundle provide?

[GarthGiantbane]

Those sound like more of Rob2E's mods and I like them as well. Unlike the effect thing though, the ones you mentioned are quick reference charts that put all of those character building data groups on single documents. They're helpful for a DM to quickly look up a reference by class, background or race. They can be helpful to players to easily compare the different ability and features.

[Dax Doomslayer]

Hi Garth,
Hmmm - there is something more than a paper quick reference chart. According to Rob, "Purchase of this item includes two PDFs as well as the module to use it in the Fantasy Grounds VTT software." Not really being proficient with the software, I'm not sure what the modules would do here. If you have any clue, feel free to let me know. Thanks!!

[LordEntrails]

So there should be a few files to download from the DMsG; pdfs and a .mod file. The .mod goes into your "<FG Data>/Modules" folder. Then you will have to activate the module the next time you are in a 5E campaign from your "Library > Modules" window.

Did you get that far?

[JohnD]

Send the author a PM on the boards here - he'll get you straightened out. Pretty sure there's an instruction file that should be easy to follow, but if there isn't, this should drive home the need for the author to make one.

[Dax Doomslayer]

Hi LordEntrails,
Thank you for the reply. I was actually I'm just trying to figure out what exactly these libraries could have in it. I'm still on the demo trying to decide between FG and Roll20 to be honest. I'm pretty strongly leaning toward FG at this point but still discussing with my group. Garth mentioned these and I was wondering what 'gap' they are covering so to speak.

[JohnD]

My impression is that they simply distill the information into a condensed form. You don't need external purchases like that, especially if you already know 5e.

If you are comparing to Roll20, this decision should be as easy as shooting fish in a barrel with a cruise missile. FG is something you will get huge value from and many 100s of hours of use.

[Nylanfs]

Now now, we don't know all his requirements. He might have to have tablet access, players might be technically challenged...

He need to pick the solution that fits his group best. :-)

[LordEntrails]

Ah, ok Dax. Rob's got a lot of various modules for FG on the DMsGuild. I did a formal review of one of them (link in my signature), but I'm not familiar with this one (yet).

There's lots of good comparison info. I'll add into the mix this from an email I sent to a friend a few months ago when he was doing the same research you are. Note, that a couple of things are out of date (no current sale I'm aware of, and FG Daze has past, though it will come again and there is FG Con coming up).



So, here's my take on that blog; first his prices are misleading. If you want a perpetual license (which I recommend) it is normally $40 (though right now it's $30), and rather than each person getting a license, only the GM needs an ultimate license, $150 (though on sale for $112), which lets you have an many free/demo licenses as you want. But, you can't hand off the DM roll if you do this. So, you probably don't ever need to spend $200 on just the s/w, though it is possible to have a use case for such. Prices for modules and add on are the same price as if you bought the hard/print versions. So I don't see that be any type of additional cost. i.e. no matter what format or VTT you use, the cost for a module or an add-on like Volo's guide to monsters is the same. Plus, I find the FG version so much more capable as a reference source (links, drag and drop, etc). Now, Roll 20 also is licensed, and has been for some months, but they only have a small set of the WotC content available for purchase. Though that's always changing, and maybe they are releasing more of it now, but last I checked they were missing lots of the released stuff. Also, Roll 20 really isn't free. Not if you want anything close to comparable functions. There is a comparison chart that is ok if you understand the nuances. Third party chart here:https://battlegroundsgames.com/vtt-comparison-chart/ FG's comparison chart here:https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/entry.php?178-VTT-Comparison
So, there were 3 reasons I chose FG over all the others when I started in about 18 months ago:
1) The FG community. It's incredibly (by far) the most active and pleasant community on the web I've ever been a part of. I've heard talk from others that the Roll20 community is either great, or if you express a dissenting opinion or mention a competitor your post will be deleted and eventually you will be banned. Don't know if that's true, but have heard it from at least 3 people who say they were banned for things like asking about competitors or complaining about support. Also, FG support is great, and they basically have a money back guarantee. See;https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?34624-30-day-trial-for-subscriptions-replaced-with-30-day-money-back-guarantee
2) Official WotC content. At the time, they were the only ones who had it.
3) Architecture. Roll20 is SaaS. FG is local client. If either company goes out of business, what happens to all your data? With FG, It's all on my computer. And with the exception of a license check when a free player tries to connect to an ultimate license, you don't need internet connectivity. With Roll20, you lose it all. Something like this already happened a month or two ago with Roll20. Their jukebox function was done through an API with Syrinscape (?) and Syrinscape pulled the plug on them. If the R20 admins knew it was coming, the users never did. They have since replaced it somehow, but I'm not sure how it compares and what people with sound libraries had to do and if they could even recover their sounds.
Automation and s/w capabilities.
Though FG does not have dynamic line of sight (which is a paid function on Roll20), it has a great deal of things that make it really easy to play and to create campaigns. Though I admit the UI has lots of idiosyncrasies, it is very powerful, and I didn't find it too hard to get used to or to learn.
A few technical things;
FG has a very active set of user developers (since it's almost all open, written in XML and LUA). Linked sounds (which is basically the same as R20's jukebox) are a function done by a community extension (he actually works contract for FG on occasion, so you know he's trusted) Fog of war is included, but it's a basic masking and unmasking of the images. Their have been technology demos both from FG and the community on a dynamic line of sight, but its not expected in this version of FG. FG has a Unity version that has been in development for a few years. Though the company makes no promises when, and says buy the s/w for what it is now, the FG Unity version is expected sometime in 2017. Connectivity can be a hassle in a few cases. This is because of the local host architecture and the use of IPv4 protocols. Worse case it requires the use of a vpn (Hamachi or private vpn server, which costs about $15/yr and one of the community developers has a document with step-by-step instruction on how to set one up). Also, January 7th is the next FGDaze, a one day online convention. Generally you can play for free as FG usually upgrades all the DM's licenses that weekend. You can find more info on that here:https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?97-FGDaze

[Dax Doomslayer]

Thanks folks! I really do appreciate everyone's responses. I will concur that this community is terrific. I mean I had one member literally take time to help me clear up my connection issues (thanks "damned"!!) and everyone has been exceedingly pleasant and provided thoughtful answers which is greatly appreciated. I've also watched hours and hours of YouTube tutorials on how to use and comparisons vs. Roll20. Some additional questions. If I purchase the Ultimate License and my group only has a demo version of the software, are they able to save their characters or is it strictly that I need to host them? The whole import/export of characters I'm still a little fuzzy on. I guess I should just go and google it - lol. I'm still a little fuzzy on the whole character management and import thing as the tutorials I've seen don't really go over this but I'm sure it's pretty straight forward.

[Trenloe]

If I purchase the Ultimate License and my group only has a demo version of the software, are they able to save their characters or is it strictly that I need to host them?
In Fantasy Grounds the GM computer stores all of the up-to-date campaign data (including PC info). This is one key difference between FG and Roll20 - where Roll20 stores all of it's data in the cloud. With FG you can always access your campaign data, even if you don't have an internet connection, even if the central Fantasy Grounds servers are offline - your own data is on your own computer, not someone else's somewhere in the cloud.

When players are connected to your game they download the data they need and store it in a local encrypted cache. This speeds up gaming and the amount of future download data. It also allows the players, even with a demo license, to access their PC data when not connected to the GM. They access the data through "Manage Characters", selecting the name of the campaign where there PC is stored.

That's the simple to explain bit... Getting onto export/import now. Because the player accessing their PC campaign data through manage characters is using their local cache data, which is a copy of the GMs campaign stored the last time the player was connected, the data in the cache is read only - as data might have changed on the GM instance since the player disconnected. However, the player can export a copy of their PC (into a text XML file) and then go into standard Manage Characters, load up that PC and make changes there. Then that modified PC would be available to send to the GM for review before the next game, or to upload when you next connect to the GM. So the players will always be able to get access to their character information. The main thing to be aware of, is that in Manage Characters they only have access to the library modules they own, whereas when the player connects to the GM they have access to the GMs library as well (the library modules the GM chooses to share with them, that is).

Hope that helps.

[Dax Doomslayer]

Thanks Trenloe - it does help. I understand the part about the players only have access to the books they bought (or those the DM has). I wasn't clear if they'd be able to modify their PCs if they weren't logged into the GM's game. It looks like they can and then it is synched up when they connect for review etc. I think one of the big selling points for me is that this is not a cloud/SaaS offering. I also hate subscription models and FG has an option that is a one time charge option which strongly appeals to me. Also, it looks like if I buy all the WoTC books at one time, I get a 25% discount and any future book will be 25% off. This is obviously of course in addition to the technology. The UI has me a little squeamish but the more tutorials I watch, the better I feel about it. One question on the WoTC library pricing, the 25% off of these books don't start until you 'complete' the bundle. Thus if I buy only the PHB; DMG and MM - that's at full price. It isn't until I buy the full suite of libraries that the products purchased at that time and going forward would get that discount - correct? Thanks again!

[Trenloe]

The UI has me a little squeamish but the more tutorials I watch, the better I feel about it.
The UI was specifically designed to save screen real estate (you'll appreciate that when GMing) and also to be more RPG centric - i.e. character/NPC sheets give access to functions specific to the PCs or NPCs, the combat tracker (initiative list) is the main window that links all combat activities together, maps have tokens (minis) that can be added, etc.. The right-click menu is there to provide context on the object you click on and to save screen real-estate. It really doesn't take long to get used to it - just don't expect it to have menus like a word processor, or similar windows application - it's not, and gaming doesn't lend itself to those types of interfaces.


One question on the WoTC library pricing, the 25% off of these books don't start until you 'complete' the bundle. Thus if I buy only the PHB; DMG and MM - that's at full price. It isn't until I buy the full suite of libraries that the products purchased at that time and going forward would get that discount - correct?
Correct.

[Dax Doomslayer]

I'm sure once I start using it, it will become more intuitive. As I'm more familiar with Windows applications, the difference is noticeable at first. Another question, using the demo version (version 3.2.2) with the core rules when generating a PC, the Characters button and then 'edit list' then 'add item' the screen pulled up is different than the one that Doug shows in the FG 3.2 Update tutorial. When he does it, it shows a blank character sheet template with name/class/level/background/race etc. When I do it, it's pretty much a blank piece of paper with just "Name" and "Attributes/Skills". The tabs on the sheet are different also. Is this because it's the demo version? Why is this different from the tutorial? If so, would this change if a demo version is logged into the GM's game who has all the books?

[damned]

Having used this software for a while now I often try and think how to change the Ui to something more like most other apps and I just cant see how to do it. The UI whilst it has its speed bumps actually works very well once you stop fighting it :)

[Dax Doomslayer]

Hey damned!! I hope all is well. Yeah - I think it's just trying to train myself to do it a different way than what I'm accustomed to do. As I've been watching more of these YouTube tutorials, I've gotten a bit more comfortable with the UI. I'm not sure if you can answer this but I'm seeing a difference from one of the FG Tutorials from Doug on the Characters page. When using the demo version (version 3.2.2) with the core rules when generating a PC, the Characters button and then 'edit list' then 'add item' the screen pulled up is different than the one that Doug shows in the FG 3.2 Update tutorial. When he does it, it shows a blank character sheet template with name/class/level/background/race etc. When I do it, it's pretty much a blank piece of paper with just "Name" and "Attributes/Skills". The tabs on the sheet are different also. Is this because it's the demo version? Why is this different from the tutorial? If so, would this change if a demo version is logged into the GM's game who has all the books?

[damned]

if you have a few minutes Ill jump on your session with you and we can have a look? send em an email.

[Nylanfs]

That's because you don't have access to the encrypted 5e data without having either a subscription or a full license. Check out the 35e / pathfinder for what the character sheet will look similar to 5e's sheet.

[Dax Doomslayer]

Hi damned - sent you an email. Hey Nylanfs, actually this is with the Core Rules Library and not the 5E Rule Set...

[Trenloe]

Another question, using the demo version (version 3.2.2) with the core rules when generating a PC, the Characters button and then 'edit list' then 'add item' the screen pulled up is different than the one that Doug shows in the FG 3.2 Update tutorial. When he does it, it shows a blank character sheet template with name/class/level/background/race etc. When I do it, it's pretty much a blank piece of paper with just "Name" and "Attributes/Skills". The tabs on the sheet are different also. Is this because it's the demo version? Why is this different from the tutorial?
The 3.2 update video is using the 5E ruleset, not the CoreRPG ruleset.

[Dax Doomslayer]

Hey Trenloe - thanks for the response. Yup, damned helped me out and I'm good now. Thanks for getting back to me!!

[Trenloe]

Hey Trenloe - thanks for the response. Yup, damned helped me out and I'm good now. Thanks for getting back to me!!
Cool, glad you got sorted out. He's a good one that damned. Mostly... ;)