can I use IFT and IF in a damage action?

[valiantcosmos]

I was trying to create a Divine Smite power for a paladin and my initial thought was to create a damage action with "2d8 radiant; IFT TYPE(undead, fiend); DMG: 1d8 radiant" but that seems to only work for an effect action. Creating an effect for Divine Smite is not bad, but it means I have to remember to turn it on before rolling the damage for the attack I want to add the divine smite to, and it makes it more difficult to roll normal damage first and then decide to call down the divine smite (though I'm not sure according to the rules if the decision to call down divine smite has to be made before the initial damage is dealt).

I think I would prefer just to have a damage action I can click on (roll) in addition to rolling the normal damage for this case. But I don't see how to create a damage action with a conditional clause in it. I would think such damage actions would be useful in a number of cases. Am I missing something?

[Trenloe]

Effects cannot be added specifically to an action. Effects are active on the character in the combat tracker and effect relevant actions/rolls.

You're going to have to do something manual here - either remember to apply the effect IFT TYPE(undead, fiend); DMG: 1d8 radiant before you roll damage. Or add an additional damage entry in the actions tab to roll manually if you decide to smite - but this damage roll does not check the creature type, so it would be up to you asking the GM if your smite damage will count against your target.

Best bet is to remember to add the effect mentioned above before rolling damage.

[Tylindell28]

Yeah, the best way to go about this is just to call out smite, and then apply the whole effect, before rolling damage. This way you don't have to ask the DM what type it is and add an extra d8, and this way you only have to build one effect instead of an effect and dmg action for smite. This is how I've always done it, and always seen it done, other than seeing people roll 2d8 after doing dmg and then the DM having to manually apply that.

[Zacchaeus]

Yes, absolutely create the effect. You get to choose whether to apply Divine Smite after you know you have hit but before applying damage. So your thought process is clear. Ok, I have hit I will/will not apply Divine Smite and if you do add the effect to your character and then roll the damage. If the NPC happens to be of a type that takes the extra damage then it will automatically apply (Your DM might not be generous to tell you what kind of creature it is anyway). Remember when creating the effect to set the targeting to self and the Expend to on next roll.

[spite]

This is I suppose as relevant a place as any, but say I wanted to set up an effect that would do 4 extra damage if either the target or the player was bloodied, but not combine to 8 if both. Is that possible with the IFT/IF syntax?

[Trenloe]

This is I suppose as relevant a place as any, but say I wanted to set up an effect that would do 4 extra damage if either the target or the player was bloodied, but not combine to 8 if both. Is that possible with the IFT/IF syntax?
Nope, not possible. There's not binary/boolean logic available with the conditional effects. It only works with a single IF/IFT rule being true to make all effects after the condition active.

[spite]

Nope, not possible. There's not binary/boolean logic available with the conditional effects. It only works with a single IF/IFT rule being true to make all effects after the condition active.

I thought that would be the case. Bummer :/

[valiantcosmos]

Smite, I wonder if you could do something with two effects added simultaneously to the player: One "IF: bloodied; ..." and the other 'IF: !bloodied; IFT bloodied; ..." The first effect covers the cases where only the pc is bloodied or both are bloodied, and the second covers the case where only the target is bloodied.

Whether effects should (and I'm talking ideally here as from what I understand as things stand now, "effects are active on the character in the combat tracker and effect relevant actions/rolls") be a possible element of the damage description would I guess be a question of whether saving a click in the heat of combat is worthwhile under certain circumstances (i.e. one could click the conditional damage action or attack with the weapon that has the conditional damage as opposed dragging the effect on to oneself and then clicking the damage), and whether it more accurately reflects the conceptual model in the mind of the player under certain circumstances (I have a magic weapon that deals extra damage if the target is undead -- does the conditional extra damage seem like an effect on the weapon and so should belong to the description of the damage done by the weapon along with the base number/type of damage dice and type of damage, or does it seem like an effect on the pc that carries over to the damage done if he/she chooses the magic weapon.

[spite]

Does !bloodied work that way? That might be a good workaround if it does.

[Trenloe]

That won't work, for a number of reasons:
1) Using an exclamation mark "!" to negate is only valid for damage types with immune, vulnerability & resistance effects.
2) You can't string IF/IFT conditions together - only use one per effect entry.
3) Bloodied isn't a condition in 5E. But, I'm guessing spite was asking with regards to 4E?

[spite]

Yea I am referring to 4e, sorry, but does IF/IFT not work even if say you had "IF: bloodied; IFT: bloodied; DMG: 2" to give 2 damage bonus if both are bloodied?
Also, bummer about the ! not working for that, I had an inkling it was only for damage resist etc

[valiantcosmos]

That won't work, for a number of reasons:
1) Using an exclamation mark "!" to negate is only valid for damage types with immune, vulnerability & resistance effects.
2) You can't string IF/IFT conditions together - only use one per effect entry.
3) Bloodied isn't a condition in 5E. But, I'm guessing spite was asking with regards to 4E?

Hmm, I only tried stringing IF/IFT conditions together and that does seem to work for me. The effect "IF: wounded; IFT: TYPE(undead); DMG:1d8" works as expected (deals damage if and only if the player is wounded and target is undead).

"!" doesn't seem to work in that context -- depending on where I put the "!" it's either ignored or read together with what follows as an unknown attribute. Interesting.

I don't know what can be done with extensions -- would an extension enable you to add more expanded and intuitive boolean operators in effects?