C&C Content Issues

[Varsuuk]

In Monsters & Treasure, the Ankheg is spelled "Ankegh" in the monster list/index. I assumed was an IP thing. Then I went to use it and saw it was titled "Ankkegh" in the entry but in the "Other" text it uses the correct spelling.

I looked at my digital M&T from TL and it is "Ankheg" all around (which, is amazing - I assumed the typo came from them - learning they have many of those.)

[Talyn]

Patience, young padawan! I'm very slowly working on remastering the PHB and M&T to the latest printings and with fixed typos. I have M&T of Aihrde done but waiting on the most recent kickstarter printing to arrive to I can add the new stuff before releasing it. But yeah... TLG doesn't seem to have a legit copy-editor on staff. :(

Mortar is very slowly remastering the CK Guide as well to the most recent printing.

[JohnD]

If you guys are working on that, color tokens would be great too.

[Talyn]

Only if TLG provides them. I believe the M&T of Airhde kickstarter last year didn't make the stretch goal for color art, for example?

The new M&T printing does, however. I'll have to brush up my GIMP skills for that one. Actually, I'll contact Stephen at TLG for original copies then brush up my GIMP skills!

[Varsuuk]

Didn't know there was a recent KS for Airhde, but then I only started paying attention to them when Backpack started - likely it was many moons ago and just coming out :)

I could have sworn I'd seen M&T of Airhde on TLG site in past but now that I think of it, probably not since I didn't buy it during either of the last 2 sales.


Btw, have any of you guys ever read any "The Crusader" mags? I'm thinking of buying the set if people have decent reviews when they next (if) go on sale at TLG site.


Bah... not rushing you ;) didn't even know anyone was working on it - first time I really looked at an entry post buying ruleset months back. I was just reporting like I do for 5e cos Zach is like always editing the modules for typos.

[Mortar]

TLG stuff is horribly rife with typos, among other issues. Things are progressing slowly as Talyn said. I am hoping to get back to devoting more time to this stuff soon, and even plan on getting a C&C game going myself.

Right now I feel like I am in the tenth round of a 15 round heavyweight title fight taking place on stilts, and one of my stilts is broken
.

[Zhern]

So like a one-legged person in an rear end kicking contest, Mortar?

[Varsuuk]

"It's a dog eat dog world, and I'm wearing Milkbone underwear."

[Talyn]

Here's a shot of my remastered M&T of Aihrde. Like I said, I'm waiting for the new printing to be available to the public so I can add the 20 new monsters before I submit it. I also put a lot of work into organizing them by type, which I'll do for M&T when I get around to that too. Hopefully makes it easier for the CK to pick one if he has an idea what general monster type he wants.

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=17991&stc=1&d=1487683164

The main thing with my M&T remaster is I'm renaming it to Monsters & Treasure like it's supposed to be, instead of Monsters and Treasure. I'm OCD like that. Right now, I'm not allowed to do that because a few of the old A-series modules like directly to M&T instead of having their own local copy of the monsters so I have to wait for Mortar to remaster those adventures, removing the links, before I can do M&T to get around that issue.

[JohnD]

Looks good.

[Mortar]

The main thing with my M&T remaster is I'm renaming it to Monsters & Treasure like it's supposed to be, instead of Monsters and Treasure. I'm OCD like that. Right now, I'm not allowed to do that because a few of the old A-series modules like directly to M&T instead of having their own local copy of the monsters so I have to wait for Mortar to remaster those adventures, removing the links, before I can do M&T to get around that issue.

Such a subtle hint for me to get my a$$ in gear ;)

[Asterionaisien]

Sorry to bother you guys, but I still have to start using C&C nor I have any experience with it. Are you guys implying that the base ruleset will be freely updated to the lastest edition/errata or just other manuals?If so, when it will happen? I was considering to do a one shot with some friends to try it.
Thanks for your patience.

[Talyn]

Are you guys implying that the base ruleset will be freely updated to the lastest edition/errata or just other manuals?If so, when it will happen?

Yes, it will be freely updated. Not for awhile though. I have an extremely busy work schedule and I just code this stuff in my downtime and the adventure modules in my queue take precedence over the PHB remaster. Not sure we've discussed this yet, but I was thinking about asking SmiteWorks to not actually push the updates (once we get around to finishing them) until all 3 are finished, that way everyone gets a massive free update.

[Talyn]

Such a subtle hint for me to get my a$$ in gear ;)

Hahaha it actually wasn't intended that way, since I'm so slammed with work and life right now it's not like I can say "oh, Mortar's done so I can finally do what I wanted!"

[Varsuuk]

PS. Thinking of running Halfling Hall after Reptile God conversion. Is ETA for that measures in sub 3 month or more you think?

I'll have to start FGifying it by April if I'm to finish in time for campaign by my guess. Will be combo of at home and online play so likely get more playtime than our old in person only campaigns so hard to judge. I figure, I'm still new to creating modules and hopefully you have access to better art resources from TLG than my extracting maps from the PDFs I bought (but even if you need to do the same, buying it frees me to convert the NEXT tsr module instead)

[Talyn]

I just finished my U1 Shadows of the Halfling Hall revamp a few days ago. Actually finished this time! I was thinking of holding off until I get all four U-series done and submitting them all at once but if you'd rather I submit U1 now, I can do that...

[Varsuuk]

Submit... and I vill buy *twirls funny long cigarette holder*

(No gaddamn reason...I think I am low on blood sugar. But ya, I'll buy it soon as it's up in store for FG3 :) )

[JohnD]

All of the C&C modules need better resolution maps IMO so if you've been able to accomplish that, great.

[Talyn]

I agree but I can only work with what I was given. I did de-key and enlarge the U1 maps a bit for "battle maps" with encounter pins, though they were never intended for grids so I did what I could to make them fit if the CK adds a grid to them. And there are CK versions of the maps with keys and story pins.

U2 on the other hand has pretty good-sized maps. I probably won't have to do much work other than de-keying for a battle map, much the same as I did for The Outpost.

[damned]

The main thing with my M&T remaster is I'm renaming it to Monsters & Treasure like it's supposed to be, instead of Monsters and Treasure. I'm OCD like that. Right now, I'm not allowed to do that because a few of the old A-series modules like directly to M&T instead of having their own local copy of the monsters so I have to wait for Mortar to remaster those adventures, removing the links, before I can do M&T to get around that issue.

Im not sure - and I would test it but hey you're doing this project :) but Id make sure that the & symbol doesnt mess up other things...

[Talyn]

Im not sure - and I would test it but hey you're doing this project :) but Id make sure that the & symbol doesnt mess up other things...

It doesn't, I've been doing it for months now, you just have to use the full HTML/ASCII code not the ampersand by itself.

[Moon Wizard]

Modules are referred to by name, so it won't override the old version unless named the same. We might be able to "fix" this a bit by using he same file name so the old one gets overwritten.

Also, you might want to track how you're changing the data structure, so we can write migration rules for the update for existing campaigns.

Regards,
JPG

[Talyn]

Wasn't planning on changing data structure unless it's not up to snuff with the latest 3.2 Best Practices docs, in which case I'll happily update it.

Here's a thing, though: the existing M&T has both a /tokens/ folder and a token .mod file. Any idea why this is the case? I'm presuming once I do the 4th printing remaster just doing /tokens/ is the preferred method like 5E MM does?

[Asterionaisien]

Sorry for the late answer, anyway TYVM for the info, I look forward for it. I did some inquiry, C&C seems a very good ruleset to scratch my old school itch. :)

[Moon Wizard]

I already updated the current M&T module with the v3.2 master campaign list updates, so make sure you're looking at the latest one.

I have no idea why M&T has both a tokens folder in the module, as well as a separate tokens module. I would expect that it would just be the one module with tokens.

Cheers,
JPG

[Talyn]

I have a CastleTokens.mod that has all the M&T tokens, every single one of 'em. Which is... weird.

And thanks, I didn't think there was an issue with the data format last time I looked but cool that there isn't now.

[Varsuuk]

Currently reading my TLG-bought Halfling Halls module at lunch at work... can't wait to see it up on my FG screen sometime soon :)

Quick question, based on comments about updating. Does the current U1 in the store even work with current FG? I ask because it didn't show up when scanned for C&C modules, only when searched for it by name.

I am just not familiar enuf with terminology to get it. We are still on FGII right now, correct? Just v3.x of FG2 ;) - right?

I've seen entires for Savage? which explicitly say now avail for current ruleset - so I hope that unless a module says that, no matter how old it works to load and use on current version of FG? If not (and I dig why could happen), it should be upodated with the disclaimer.

[damned]

FG2 is off playing with the dodo's
You are now using Fantasy Grounds. Its actually build/release number is 3.2.3 or 3.3.0

[Varsuuk]

Cool, always confused me.

What about stuff in store, much of the older stuff still refers to FGII but unlike some things it doesn't say "for an older ruleset" - any way to know if safe to buy?

Other than that Halfling Hall, I have none n mind - but figured a good thing to know in case.

[damned]

Cool, always confused me.

What about stuff in store, much of the older stuff still refers to FGII but unlike some things it doesn't say "for an older ruleset" - any way to know if safe to buy?

Other than that Halfling Hall, I have none n mind - but figured a good thing to know in case.

If you see anything that refers to FG2 in the store send an email to support@ and they will review.

[Varsuuk]

You mean this sort of thing right?
From the U1 module I was talking about. If this is it, will send email on others as I see em (if I see em)

"...
This product has been created for use with Fantasy Grounds II, and was developed with the latest updates for Fantasy Grounds II; please update your installation accordingly. This product does not work with older versions of Fantasy Grounds, and requires the Castles & Crusades Ruleset.

This product was created for the Fantasy Grounds II software from SmiteWorks. For more information on Castle & Crusades products from Troll Lord Games visit their website at https://www.trolllord.com. This products is Copyright 2009, Troll Lord Games and SmiteWorks USA, LLC. Used with permission from Troll Lord Games. The products' format, programming code, and presentation is copyrighted by Troll Lord Games and SmiteWorks USA, LLC. Redistribution by print or by file is strictly prohibited.

Released on May 18, 2009

Designed for Fantasy Grounds version 2.9.9 and higher."

[Talyn]

Currently reading my TLG-bought Halfling Halls module at lunch at work... can't wait to see it up on my FG screen sometime soon :)

OK OK! I'll submit it when I get home from work next week! Might take awhile for QA though. I submitted a Pathfinder module a couple weeks ago and James had 24 products to review before he got to that it, which hasn't happened yet. (That's awesome, though, since it means a bunch of DLC is about to hit!) I don't know what his current QA queue level is. I do want to double-check my maps before I submit to make sure I'm happy-ish with how they'll appear as a battlemap since that's not how they were originally drawn.

Oh... question for the CK's out there: I typically am of the opinion that the conversion author should be "invisible." However, for U1 it's built with the only official errata that exists: straight from me asking the author because no errata was ever published. So if @Varsuuk were to actually bother comparing things, he'll notice some difference and might be like "wtf Talyn, you idiot!?!" while those changes were actually intentional per the author. I had considered making a separate page or section in the reference manual with that errata in a Q&A format. Interested in that or just post the module with the changes and leave it alone?


Quick question, based on comments about updating. Does the current U1 in the store even work with current FG? I ask because it didn't show up when scanned for C&C modules, only when searched for it by name.

It "works" yeah but it's a hot mess, to put it mildly and the CK has to do a LOT of prep work before running it because several of the NPCs aren't built, none of the encounters, items, etc. were built...

It was the reason I signed on to remaster some of the C&C stuff to begin with. I came to FG after 5E was already a thing, so 5E's DLC is my personal minimum bar for quality of presentation.

[JohnD]

I'd put in the fixes and a small note on the conversion. IMO the change in medium requires it, especially as you shouldn't as a GM be expected to have a pdf or printed copy.

All the C&C modules require a lot of work to repare to a ready state as a CK. Standards were obviously different back in the day.

[Talyn]

I'd put in the fixes and a small note on the conversion. IMO the change in medium requires it, especially as you shouldn't as a GM be expected to have a pdf or printed copy.

That's why I was planning on just releasing it with the changes made, because how many own the PDF and even if you did, are you going to pore over and compare them side by side, word by word?

There aren't many changes, some were simply that Mike had a template for stats and forgot to go back in and add the weapons he wanted. So we fixed that, and the monsters in question now have the weapons he decided on. The funniest (at least for my silly sense of humor) one is the Giant Spider encounter. U1 was originally playtested with OD&D (possibly before the C&C rules were finished). A C&C Giant Spider would TPK a first-level party. So it's changed to a Small Spider, because he said even the C&C Medium Spider would be too much.

[Varsuuk]

From my perspective, I'd prefer the changes to be integrated into the module as a "finished" product.

Since it does exist in PDF and sometimes the errors are in the transcriber...(though... not likely with C&C editing examples I've seen!)- I think it pays to mention that corrections were made to PdF from TLG errata. If any of the changes are ones you may think would raise an eyebrow, then list that change so people know it is intentional and not an error. Imagine, there was a +2 sword as treasure and they meant +1 or +2 ONLY against the DemonSpider Yrchivious Blitherblats.

I wouldn't go to work of including orig in reference. Thanks for your work. Definitely take the time to get what you need right. I "rushed" only in regards to putting out when satisfied vs when satisfied AND done with U2-4. Since ai know I want U1, after that depends on too much to guess.

[Varsuuk]

I'm curious now to see the "before" hot mess to appreciate the improvement. One thing though, as far as credit goes - if I did prebuy knowing will be updated - would whatever converter cut there is go to you? I fear it may not as it wasn't done by you. Unless you say it is otherwise, will wait- not like gonna use the current one anyhow, was just curiousity.

[Talyn]

No, I don't get credit until I submit mine and it's processed onto the store, replacing the old one. But thanks anyway :)

[Trenloe]

I had considered making a separate page or section in the reference manual with that errata in a Q&A format. Interested in that or just post the module with the changes and leave it alone?
Whatever you do, you must include some conversion notes that indicate at a high level what's been changed from the original product. Otherwise you will get people posting as to why the FG modules doesn't reflect the print/PDF product or getting confused if they're running from the print/PDF copy as well as the FG module.

[Varsuuk]

No, I don't get credit until I submit mine and it's processed onto the store, replacing the old one. But thanks anyway :)

Glad I waited then.
Actually, when we first posted back and forth couple weeks past and you mentioned you were remastering them, I assumed you orig-mastered them ;P So I nearly bought it then cos I know SW updates ya free. Then... I saw a squirrel and forgot.

Sometimes my mental issues are useful. I will wait until you submit it and it shows up. As I said, I have the pdf, can prep a lot before I be needing any .mod. I'm doing N1 anyhow first.
My soon to be 10yo just rolled up 4 characters. Told him doing his backstory but ... Daddy is gonna play it old school and you will be level 1 ... alone (at least at start - if he grabs help along way, all the better) for his backstory modules. He may need to go to backstory 2 or 3 or 4. He makes it to 4... he survives, I ain't writting THAT many backstories. Plus there's the future therapy bills to consider.

[Varsuuk]

Ah, btw - just got up to the Spider part on commute in. Perhaps they updated the PDF (I'd have hoped they supplied you with that!) because while still says "a giant spider drops" (paraphrasing) the stats are for a small spider. And even a "small" spider is giant in relation to Charlotte.

[Talyn]

I'd have hoped they supplied you with that!

What is this sorcery you speak of? :p Haha no, I have to buy all my own PDFs if I want to do anything. I have both the 2005 version and the 2012 version of U1. The remaster will be based off the 2012 version, which mainly had better quality image scans. No text was changed between printings.

[Varsuuk]

What is this sorcery you speak of? :p Haha no, I have to buy all my own PDFs if I want to do anything. I have both the 2005 version and the 2012 version of U1. The remaster will be based off the 2012 version, which mainly had better quality image scans. No text was changed between printings.


Ugh, OK - I guess I can try to help out, unfortunately AFTER the fact by doing a quick QA soon after you release for you to compare vs the latest.

Hmmm, never mind, mine is also the 2012 version from the copyright below:


©2012 Troll Lord Games. All Rights Reserved. Castles & Crusades® is a Registered Trademark (pending) of Troll Lord Games. All Rights Reserved. C&C, Castle Keeper, SIEGE engine,Troll Lord Games, and the Castles & Crusades, SIEGE engine, and Troll Lord Games logos are Trademarks of Troll Lord Games. All Rights Reserved.
ISBN 978-1-936822-38-6 Printed in the United States of America


I have the version where the cover spans the entire page (blue-themed, none of the picture over yellow/gold standard TLG background), I bought mine from TLG directly between November and January, can't recall.

Just to be certain, here is my stat block:


Spider, small (His vital stas are HD 1d8, HP 7, AC 14. His primary attributes are physical. He attacks with 1 bite for 1d2 points of damage. Anyone bitten must make a constitution save or suffer 1d2 points of damage in the first round. A second constitution save is made in the 2nd round, if the victim fails they take a further 1d2 points of damage and suffer 1-2 points of strength loss for 1d12 hours. A successful save in the first round negates all affects.)

[Talyn]

Yeah once I started emailing the author (who was unfamiliar with FG to begin with anyway) it became apparent that the copyright text was incorrect, at least for his stuff. He owns the copyright to his content (he did U1 and U3) not TLG per his contract. I haven't contacted the U2 and U4 authors yet to see if that's the case for them as well. Steve Chenault chimed in on the same email thread and agreed so I corrected the copyright text to reflect correct ownership in a way that made both Steve and Mike happy.

Seriously, TLG should hire me to be their remote copy editor... LOL.

[Varsuuk]

I know, it is pretty bad considering how much I generally like the content of ones I've gotten.

I could kill for Upper Works, Moat House and lesser extent The Storehouse District (for completion) I bought the Yggsburgh HC and Town Halls softcover from collector shops ... yeesh. Yggsburgh only got since received $130 credit at Amazon I didn't expect, so was found money (lol). But the Castle is too much I think. Really wish they had PDFs to buy of it instead. I will never be able to use much for FG even if I ever run it, waaaay too much to type. Too much for cut and paste, but I'd do it over time.

One reason I only buy PDFs now :p


Anyhow, back on topic - so your pdf matches the stat block I sent? or do I have a later printing (presuming copyright is no indicator?)

[JohnD]

I know, it is pretty bad considering how much I generally like the content of ones I've gotten.

I could kill for Upper Works, Moat House and lesser extent The Storehouse District (for completion) I bought the Yggsburgh HC and Town Halls softcover from collector shops ... yeesh. Yggsburgh only got since received $130 credit at Amazon I didn't expect, so was found money (lol). But the Castle is too much I think. Really wish they had PDFs to buy of it instead. I will never be able to use much for FG even if I ever run it, waaaay too much to type. Too much for cut and paste, but I'd do it over time.

One reason I only buy PDFs now :p


Anyhow, back on topic - so your pdf matches the stat block I sent? or do I have a later printing (presuming copyright is no indicator?)

Unfortunately I don't think we'll ever see that Castle Zagyg stuff in print or pdf ever again. At least until Gary's widow has a change of heart, which doesn't appear likely.

[Talyn]

Update: I did not submit U1 remaster yet. These maps are killin' me... the art doesn't match the room description, I can't get the grid to align for the overall "dungeon" map. Seriously considering blowing up each room into its own map for the fights to make the grid align just to that room. Which also sounds silly because it's a TLG map so it's just an "empty" white room...

[JohnD]

Update: I did not submit U1 remaster yet. These maps are killin' me... the art doesn't match the room description, I can't get the grid to align for the overall "dungeon" map. Seriously considering blowing up each room into its own map for the fights to make the grid align just to that room. Which also sounds silly because it's a TLG map so it's just an "empty" white room...
There's only so much accuracy you can bake into it when inaccuracy is one of the hallmarks of the creators.

[Talyn]

"We didn't have all these newfangled pixels 'n grids back in '74, y'know! Hmph... you hippity dippity kids and your electronic gizmos! Why, back in my day we had to roll dice uphill, barefoot in the snow, both ways!"

[Varsuuk]

There's only so much accuracy you can bake into it when inaccuracy is one of the hallmarks of the creators.

Ran into similar problem on a few rooms in one of the Inns for N1, but since I cannot distribute that adventures - I had the freedom to change descriptions to match maps.

That probably explains why my daily checks (after you said was ready) for it in the store have been fruitless. :p

The good news is a i am just eager to get a new module, I still have one short module ready to go (except personalizing to campaign) so don't need to run it yet.

[Talyn]

That probably explains why my daily checks (after you said was ready) for it in the store have been fruitless. :p

Don't bother checking every day, James has quite the project queue. The Pathfinder adventure I submitted... 3 weeks ago-ish (?) just went through QA today.

On the positive note, taking little breaks like this lets me come back with fresh-ish eyes, and I'm taking advantage of it to add in a couple little features that I had in that Pathfinder module that I will probably be including in everything going forward.

I'll see what I can do with the maps one last time when I get home on my desktop with more processing power than the laptop I'm writing this on. I at least have measurements for the rooms, it's just going to be a matter of how bad does the visual quality look once I explode the map to grid size. Otherwise I'm just gonna say "screw it" and submit it.

[Varsuuk]

Roger that...

I DIDN'T check tonight... I swear... I know nothing about Hellfrost stuff... that's my story and I am sticking to it :)

Take the time you need bro. ;)

[Talyn]

Sorry for the delay, between work, more work, other projects and Horizon Zero Dawn, I kept putting this off.

I'd made a larger map for the Barrow Complex but it was blurry-ish and I decided I didn't like it. So I've spent the morning here in the hotel finalizing this thing. It will be submitted when I get home tomorrow.

It's DONE!

[Varsuuk]

:) Will get it when it is up.

[Talyn]

Submitted! Despite saying it was "done" yesterday, I thought of a tweak to NPC's while at work last night so I did that and sent it all in.
It's in James' hands now...

[Varsuuk]

oO

Cool.