Purchasing the FG & Licensing

[Dax Doomslayer]

Hi Folks,
I'm new around these parts and have been weighing the purchase of VTT software for a bit as my friends have scattered across the USA so sorry for the 'noob' questions. I got it down to Roll20 and FG but I'm really leaning toward FG ultimate license. A couple of questions that will definitely impact my decision however. From the way I read the EULA, it appears that a license grant is only for one machine. Thus if I purchase the license I can only install & run it on either my desktop or my laptop - not both. Thus I'll need to purchase 2 licenses? Would someone confirm that as it's pretty much a deal breaker for me for the cost. My second question is around where to acquire the license. What is the difference of purchasing this from Steam vs. directly from Smiteworks here? If I purchase from Steam, how would technical support work or is it something to the effect that I'd register it here and have it on Steam too? I ask in case I ever have to reinstall etc. My apologies for the dumb questions and I appreciate any help anyone can give. Thanks!

[Bidmaron]

You can only run the license from one computer at a time. You can have multiple installs. Syncing your data files will be your responsibility.

I see no advantage to steam if you are using windows. Better to buy here

[NotRussellCrowe]

You can only run the license from one computer at a time. You can have multiple installs. Syncing your data files will be your responsibility.

I see no advantage to steam if you are using windows. Better to buy here

Steam offers regional pricing so it may be cheaper to buy from Steam than to do conversion for those out of the USA.

[Trenloe]

Welcome to the forums Dax. As has been mentioned, you can do multiple installs of FG on your own computers but can only run one at a time - therefore you can install on both your laptop and desktop, do campaign development on your laptop (FG stores your data on your hard drive, so it does not need an Internet connection to do GM prep, which Roll20 does - if that makes a difference to you) and then transfer the campaign files to your desktop run your laptop prepared campaign from there, and vice-versa.

You won't see any difference in FG support whether you purchase on Steam or here. Even if you purchase here, your license key will be uploaded (synced every 4-6 weeks) to Steam and so it's just like you purchased on Steam as well - although there will only ever be one base install, there's nothing Different to the Steam install.

[LordEntrails]

Hey Dax, welcome to the community.

I did the same research and made the FG decision almost 2 years ago. Been extremely happy ever since. I will say that the community here is exceptional. Both in helpfulness and in a positive environment. SmiteWorks, the company that makes FG, is also exceptional. Their customer service is above par and they continue to make significant improvement on the application and are very quick to fix issues when they are identified.

Any other questions, just ask :)

[Dax Doomslayer]

Hi Folks,
Thanks for all the replies and information! NotRussellCrowe actually hit the nail on the head about Steam and the pricing and the reason I asked Bidmaron. It's a little cheaper (not a lot but every dollar helps) and I'm happy to hear I can have multiple installations provided that I'm using only one install. Trenloe - thanks for the welcome. The "work offline" / program residing on the hard drive vs. server set up does help a lot and is one of the main reasons I'm leaning toward FG. A question, how difficult is it to 'sync' with another device (i.e. laptop)? Also, if you purchase WoTC books, are you allowed to use the books on both (I would assume so from what it sounds) and is there any additional 'sync' type of thing needed? My apologies for the questions!! Thanks again.

[Moon Wizard]

The data files for your campaigns are all stored in folders (per campaign) on your hard drive. So synching campaigns is as simple as copying folders between your computers.

Here's a wiki page breaking down where data files are stored for different types of files used by FG.
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/wiki/index.php/Data_Files_Overview

Regards,
JPG

[LordEntrails]

It's really pretty easy to sync. What you will do is want to copy the campaign folder from one computer to the other. You don't want to actually put your FG Data folder on a cloud or automatically sync'd location as that has been reported to result in data corruption. There is a community developed script for backing up that can be used (not sure what the link is to the post atm), but it's pretty much just a folder copy.

What you will do is with both installs; you will input your license key and forum username, then run an update. That will download all of your purchased content to both computers. So you will have the WotC books on both locations.

If you are going to do campaign/adventure development, I've put together a best practices guide you will find in the Workshop. Others have put together similar in video format. And there are lots of other helpful posts. Don't ever worry about asking questions. We do appreciate it if you search first and check out the various stickies. BUT if you don't find the answer or they don't make sense, then PLEASE do ask :)

[ddavison]

Another couple differences from the Steam version:

1. They have a separate refund policy. Our refund policy is good for a full 30 day money-back guarantee on all purchases. Steam limits based on the number of hours the product is used; however, I believe they provide exceptions.

2. Steam is considered to be a simpler installation for Mac users for the main software.

3. Steam DLC is not supported on Mac and needs to be linked to our store. The DLC is flagged as Windows only.

4. Both Steam and FG's store provide the same bundles and normally the same sale discounts

5. When launching multiple copies from Steam, you can only launch 1 from Steam directly. The 2nd instance has to be manually launched from C:\Program Files (x86)\Fantasy Grounds\FantasyGrounds.exe if you want to run a 2nd instance on the same system. This is great for testing the player and GM experience or for running a local game with the player view output to a TV, projector or 2nd monitor.

[Dax Doomslayer]

Thanks again for all your replies - it really is appreciated. Since I'm a Windows user I wouldn't have the Mac issues. It also sounds as if the WotC DLC will automatically sync when I run an update (which I'm assuming is a button click). Another question (if I may) - would running this on Steam help with the 'port' issues I've heard that occasionally pop up when having people connect to the DM's machine? Would this be easier to play over Steam or is it just as easy either way? Also, can you run multiple instances not using Steam that ddavison alluded to? Thanks so much for the replies.

[NotRussellCrowe]

Hi, Dax Doomslayer.

It doesn't matter where you buy the software, you will need to have port 1802 open when you are the DM (hosting the session). You don't need to do anything special to connect to a game as a player, however.

Some routers will automatically open it for you, others require manual intervention. Mine requires me to manually forward it to my computer's IP, it takes about 30 seconds to check what my IP is and update it in my router configuration, then I'm good to go. Never been an issue.


You can run multiple instances without involving Steam. I bought from Steam but don't launch it from the Steam launcher, I just created a shortcut directly to the FG application and run it that way. I only open Steam to buy DLC or update. Doing it this way I can run two instances of Fantasy Grounds without issue.

[JohnD]

If you buy here Smiteworks gets a bigger chunk of your $. If you are trying to decide between FG and Roll20, well, frankly, you get what you pay for; FG is superior and you can spend a significantly greater portion of your time playing instead of fiddling. A huge positive IMO.

[ddavison]

They ultimately run the same software and will require port forwarding for either option. The Steam version launches a small helper app that turns around and launches the same version that you would have if you bought directly from us.

While we could have used more of the Steam API functions for networking, this would have segmented our audience and given us two different pools of people that could only play with people within the same pool. We opted to retain our separate networking for the time being so that you can play with anyone, regardless of whether or not they are running through Steam.

[damned]

Download the demo and try getting port forwarding working first.
It may just work for you.
If you have trouble reach out here and we will assist.

[dulux-oz]

Hi Dax, and Welcome! to the Community,

I might be chiming in late here (but my fellow FGers would be disappointed if I don't - "insider joke"):

If you haven't done so already, let me encourage you to take a look at some of the great Tutorial Videos available on the Fantasy Grounds Wiki (and on YouTube). Damn's are good, as are Xorn's, and people seem to like mine as well (mine are also available from the links in my sig, below).

Start with the ones on the CoreRPG, because the CoreRPG forms the foundation of just about all the RPGs we play with Fantasy Grounds - so by learning how to use FG with the CoreRPG you'll learn about 80% of what you'll need to know to play any RPG with Fantasy Grounds. Once you've gone through the CoreRPG Videos you can then go on to Videos about your chosen RPG.

When you get familiar with the basic Fantasy Grounds product the next step is to check out some of the Extensions (Plug-Ins) for FG, such as the DOE: Sound, DOE: Locations, DOE: Weather and DOE: Organisations Extensions (to name a but a few).

And keep on asking questions - we're a pretty friendly lot here, and we love answering questions.

Cheers

[Dax Doomslayer]

Cool - actually I've watched a couple of YouTube videos previously but it was more people playing the game. I've bookmarked your Tutorials Dulux-Oz and thanks!! Funny - I just went to check YouTube about connecting and ports. Seems simple enough but can I try this if both people are using the Demo version as was suggested above? The community is very helpful and friendly here and I appreciate everyone taking the time for me on this while I'm figuring what to do!

[Dax Doomslayer]

Also, another dumb question. if I purchase this through SmiteWorks, can I still add it to my Steam Library (or is there really no need).

[vodokar]

While I don't see the real need, other than maybe tracking your hours played, it is possible to add any software to your steam library. I forget what they call it, maybe a "shortcut". At any rate, if you want to do so, see steam instructions for how to do so.

[Talyn]

Right, you can add it to Steam as a non-Steam game just so that it lights up green and your Steam friends see you're playing something. I'd say it lets you use the Steam overlay, which it does, but the current engine FG uses has an old implementation of DX9 that can get flaky with every overlay I've ever tried it with.
I personally try to buy DLC from the FG Store so that SmiteWorks gets 100% of my money to support the company, instead of 70% but that's a personal choice. It's on Steam for a reason, do what's right for you.

One thing, though: don't feel pressured into the Ultimate license. Especially if you haven't even had a chance to use the software yet. You can just get the demo license and sign up to play a game (any system) from a GM who does have the Ultimate license and see how you like things. Plus obviously checking YouTube and Twitch videos, which you've done. If you can easily afford the Ultimate license and don't mind spending that to let your friends (and strangers!) play for free, then cool. But if you only plan on GMing for your personal friends, then don't feel shy about telling them "hey, why don't we all buy our own $32 - $40 (depending on if you got it on sale or not) Standard license to defray the costs?" Just my two cents on that.

Oh, and if you're into GMing, every six months (April and October) there's a fan-hosted convention "FG Con" and every GM gets upgraded to Ultimate license that weekend anyway, so that's also an option to have the Standard license to get started, GM for friends or whatever, then if you try GMing for a con you get a free weekend upgrade to see how that goes. Plus the Standard to Ultimate upgrade also goes on sale every few months. There are always options so again, don't feel pressured into making a massive purchase all at once.

[vodokar]

I second what Talyn says about Ultimate. You don't need it unless you must have it because you have some real life friends that want to play with you and aren't willing to spend money themselves to get standard licenses for themselves. Most people playing here online have at least a standard license.

[LordEntrails]

Licenses bought through the FG store are sync'd with Steam about every 6 weeks. So, if you buy in the FG store, eventually you will be able to access it through Steam. But, as mentioned, unless you want to track hours or let your Steam friends know what you are playing, their is no reason to launch through Steam.

[Dax Doomslayer]

If there's no real difference, I'll probably just buy direct from Smiteworks. I think the way my friends and I are going to do it is that I'll buy the Ultimate License and they'll buy the books so it'll come out about the same and then they'll have access to all those books in the game. That said, I downloaded the demo and ran a connection "test" and it just indicates failure. When I go to the CanYouSeeMe.org site, it doesn't see me. I then went into the Windows 10 Control Panel under Security Settings / Windows Firewall under "allow an app to communicate through the firewall" and checked the public box for Fantasy Grounds and still no love. I'm not sure what else to do to be honest. I'm using a Linksys E4200 Router but I don't think I've ever added the Cisco software to my new computer for the router. It was pretty much plug and play so I'm not sure if that could be an issue (if I remember right, I think I installed that software prior to hooking up the router on my old PC - hmmm...). I guess I'll have to get back to this tomorrow...

[LordEntrails]

Hey Dax,

First, whomever is GMing will want to be the one that has the books. Only the host can share with all the players. A player can use (with GM permission) a resource they have, but they can't share it with other players. You can have the players send you money through something like Paypal and then use that to buy the books. That's what my group did.

For the connection test, you'll want to look into port forwarding. If you have a modem and a router, you will have to forward the modem to the router, then the router to the host. I would also recomend you setup a reserved IP for your computer, that way you don't have to re-do the port forwarding if your computer is offline for awhile or your router assigns you a different internal IP for whatever reason.

[Talyn]

I'm not a networking guy, that's @damned's territory (usually just typing his name anywhere on the 'net summons him from the aether lol) but the little bit of reading people port-forwarding issues has given me the impression that in the US the "majority" of UPnP routers work fine. In Europe a lot of ISP's block ports from their end and you can forward all you want on your own router, it won't matter unless they will agree to unblock that port for you. In which case you're looking at a VPN solution (Hamachi is a free one I hear FG users have great success with.)

Oh and a big thumbs up there @LordEntrails -- yes, if you're the GM you're the one who should own the source "books" DLC not the players.

[Dax Doomslayer]

Thanks for the replies and information LordEntrails and Talyn. Yeah I'm still having issues with the networking and I'm clueless when it comes to things like this unfortunately. I should have mentioned that my friends will be sending me the money to buy the books (like what you did LordEntrails). I did see that the DM needs to have them for all to see them. I'll buy the Ultimate license so they don't need to spend the money there and they reimburse me/pay for the books so everyone will have access to them. It's more cost effective for all I think doing it this way. That said, I've got to figure this port thing out before committing to anything...

[Myrdin Potter]

The main advantage for me with Steam is that the license keys are automatically stored and I can easily install on another computer without look for them in emails. Otherwise I buy all my DLC direct. If you want to take advantage of special pricing like complete the bundle, It is a lot easier if you just pick one source and use it. Otherwise you need to contact support and wait for it to be manually processed.

[Nylanfs]

The licenses are stored here in your order history also. :)

[Trenloe]

The main advantage for me with Steam is that the license keys are automatically stored and I can easily install on another computer without look for them in emails.
As Nylanfs says, your license keys are stored on the FG website. Go to "Store" -> "Order History" and click on the order where you purchased your license to see the key.

[Myrdin Potter]

And when I am in China, the website is blocked and I cannot access but I can get to steam. I also just log into steam where I have hundreds of other games and FG is there as well.

[Dax Doomslayer]

Steam definitely seems like it may be a little more convenient but at this point I'm less concerned with that. It seems I can get my keys here also and that was one of my concerns. That said, my biggest concern is opening port 1802. I've tried a number of things but I still can't seem to connect on the "test" function of the demo. The 'test' function I'm referring to is a button found after I click the "create demo campaign" button. It continues to fail. :( Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated. If I can't get this to work, this discussion may be moot... :(

[Trenloe]

Have you setup port forwarding on your router? You need to forward TCP protocol on port 1802 from your router to the IP address of your PC running Fantasy Grounds. Info on port forwarding on this site: https://portforward.com/

You shouldn't need to install any Cisco/Linksys software - go to the router admin web page to access the port forwarding config.

[Nylanfs]

This guide should help.

https://portforward.com/

[Trenloe]

This guide should help.

https://portforward.com/
Too slow.

:p

[Dax Doomslayer]

I'm not seeing a guide at that URL. The URL takes you to page to purchase software - is that correct? Granted it looks like it may be the panacea to my problem but it costs $40. Or are you saying download the free trial?

[Talyn]

No software, just read the guides littered all over the right part of the main page.

[Nylanfs]

Damnit!

No there are step by step instructions there on the left.

https://portforward.com/router.htm

[ddavison]

That page takes some getting used to and isn't the best for linking directly to content several layers down.

1. Look for the Home menu on the left and the List of All Programs
2. Choose Fantasy Grounds from the list (I use CTRL+F to find Fantasy Grounds quickly)
3. Next, choose the make of your router and then the model #

[Dax Doomslayer]

Thanks for the replies. This is beginning to get a bit complicated and I'm paranoid if I mess something up doing this, it affects my ability to get online as I work from home. I started following the guide to assign the static IP address and before changing anything I had to log out (after recording my IPv4; Subnet Mask and DNS - which I had 3 numbers listed). So I then go back to do this and run ipconfig and now no DNS numbers show up. Now, I know I didn't change anything but now I'm a bit paranoid. Is there any customer support number in the USA for FG to call to do this? I just don't feel comfortable mucking with my network.

[Trenloe]

For testing don't worry about setting a static IP address for your computer. That can come a lot later, if it is even required (some local networks will keep issuing you the same IP address anyway).

Just record the current IP address your computer has, and use that as the destination for the port forwarding on your router.

[damned]

Thanks for the replies. This is beginning to get a bit complicated and I'm paranoid if I mess something up doing this, it affects my ability to get online as I work from home. I started following the guide to assign the static IP address and before changing anything I had to log out (after recording my IPv4; Subnet Mask and DNS - which I had 3 numbers listed). So I then go back to do this and run ipconfig and now no DNS numbers show up. Now, I know I didn't change anything but now I'm a bit paranoid. Is there any customer support number in the USA for FG to call to do this? I just don't feel comfortable mucking with my network.

If you want some help PM me your email address and Ill have a look with you.

[Dax Doomslayer]

OK - update. I ignored the static IP process as you said to Trenloe and just did the port forwarding and YAY!! I was able to get a 'success' message. Thanks for the help. Now, I guess my next question is, do I need to set up that Static IP address? What are your thoughts? Damned - I greatly appreciate your offer too by the way (which I still may need or not need - lol).

[Trenloe]

OK - update. I ignored the static IP process as you said to Trenloe and just did the port forwarding and YAY!! I was able to get a 'success' message. Thanks for the help.
Great! :)


Now, I guess my next question is, do I need to set up that Static IP address? What are your thoughts?
I'd leave it for now. Most routers will assign you the same IP address if you're using the same network connection on your computer. If this stops working in the future remember to check to see if your IP address has changed and then you'd need to re-do the port forwarding. If your IP address changes every couple of weeks then it's worth setting a static IP address. You may even be able to set your DHCP on your router to assign the same IP address to your computer.

[LordEntrails]

... You may even be able to set your DHCP on your router to assign the same IP address to your computer.
My router calls this a Reserved Address. Yours might call it something else, but it allows you to reserve a specific internal IP for a specific MAC address (or computer network card).

[Dax Doomslayer]

One question and it's kind of an odd thing. It seems that every time I first launch FG and then run the test, it fails. Thereafter, it will always succeed. Is this normal? I've done it now like 10 times and it has been consistently doing this...

[ddavison]

That sort of thing might happen with UpNp, but I'm not 100% certain. My guess is that when it tries to communicate, it takes the router seeing the request before it starts forwarding the traffic automatically. Maybe one of the more network savvy people can suggest a possible cause.

[damned]

No I havent seen this before either....

[Dax Doomslayer]

Hmmm - thanks for the replies, LordEntrails; ddavison and damned. I'm pretty clueless when it comes to these types of things. I'll see if I can get one of my buddies to try and join tonight just to see if all is OK. I'm curious to see if there are no issues (*crosses fingers*). Then I'll probably go look at those YouTube tutorials that dulux-oz has. I'm hoping that the odd little thing is nothing major!

[LordEntrails]

Hmmm - thanks for the replies, LordEntrails; ddavison and damned. I'm pretty clueless when it comes to these types of things. I'll see if I can get one of my buddies to try and join tonight just to see if all is OK. I'm curious to see if there are no issues (*crosses fingers*). Then I'll probably go look at those YouTube tutorials that dulux-oz has. I'm hoping that the odd little thing is nothing major!
You can also jump on the Discord server and see if someone there has a few minutes to try and connect to you. I would offer, but I'm just about to jump into a game.

[Dax Doomslayer]

OK - well update on my travails. I was able to connect and host my buddy last night - yay (there was much joy in Mudville). I powered down last night and this morning, being the curious (make that paranoid) person that I am, I figured I'd check this again. Now when I run the test, it continues to fail. The both IP address has remained the same and the updated router addition to open the port still remains. I'm kind of confused / at a loss right now.:confused:

[JohnD]

This can be because your isp is assigning your ip dynamically I believe. Simply find the new ip and replace it in your settings from yesterday when it worked.

You could also wait a few minutes to see if it resolves and try the test again... sometimes I've experienced a connection test fail and then trying again immediately after it succeeds when coming back after a boot or especially out of Sleep mode.

I could also be talking crap, given my brain hasn't had its coffee injection this morning yet.

[Dax Doomslayer]

Hi JohnD,
Thanks for the reply. The IP address appears to me to be the exact same as yesterday's IP address. Actually everything looks pretty much exactly the same (as I wrote down that information yesterday)... : (

[JohnD]

Since I was given a new modem, I find that setting seem to take a bit longer to populate (no idea what the correct terminology is). So if I run a test immediately after booting it fails and if I come back in 30-60 seconds it succeeds, and I haven't changed anything. Might just be my system - I haven't done anything to it since it was new in 2010 other than replace a power supply.

But... this obviously doesn't help you... hope someone more knowledgeable than me can get you back up and working.

[Dax Doomslayer]

Lol - no worries John. I appreciate the response. Ironically, it is now testing correctly. Something definitely is weird going on here...

[Underdog]

First, let me say how impressed I am with FG. I absolutely love it. As an old DM who had been away from the game and had to learn 5e while scraping off layers of rust it's been a godsend. I just wanted to share one piece of feedback with Doug about what's holding me back from completing my purchase of the Complete bundle. I have no doubt it's complicated and possibly impossible to fix without some huge concession to WotC but... it's the reading. I would be happy to buy all that content, but frankly I can't sit at my pc and page through the sword coast adventurers guide and DM Guide and all the modules. If there was a way to license similarly to how blu rays and vudu work where you'd get the physical media plus the digital content I'd buy it today. Even a pdf version where you could print chapters from time to time when needed would be great. I bought a physical PHB and DM guide and frankly hate the idea of basically spending $100 each on them to have a physical and digital version. I would pay a premium for a bundle that had physical + digital but not double. Mind you, I understand the work FG has to do to basically make the handbooks compatible makes that the real labor intensive and value added part for FG. I completely get that and I'm guessing the hours needed to do that must be staggering. That said though it it just doesn't feel useful to me to have it "in there" but not accessible in a way for me to digest it. Modules are less important but similar. I like to read through a module before running it and that's not easy to do in FG. Just my two cents on what holds me back from spending even more. I know this is probably something FG would love to have as well and I'm guessing the issue is with WotC not wanting to take less but thought I'd share it anyway. Younger users may be fine with reading page by page online but it just doesn't work for me. I can't absorb it and it's not fun to read your PC in bed as you dream up your next campaign lol. If a pdf inclusion is an option that might be a good compromise to consider vs. a physical hardcover. Or half off the digital or hardcover when you buy the other version or something that allows the functionality of FG with the actual info from the printed version.

Finally Doug, I love seeing you play on twitch. It's amazing to me that you are a player who bought the company because you're a player first. You will continue to have my unending support despite the above. I am proud to support you in what is clearly a labor of love! Thanks for all you do and for this great community!!

[Dax Doomslayer]

I just want to give a shout out to "damned". He helped me out with this and thus far it looks like I'm 'good to go'!! I greatly appreciate this and FG should give him a stipend for his tech support - lol! It's a sign of a good company if it has a great community and thus far, I've been impressed. I'll just discuss this with my friends but I think I'm sold.