I know NOTHING about computer art...

[Varsuuk]

BUT... if I wanted to play around in the near future (prob by summer) with drawing maps and the like freehand (I am also going to learn more about CC3 art, but thinking to use this for faster get right into play) for D&D dungeon maps and overland map planning before doing "for real" with cartography apps.

Think like old graph paper quality, not finished module quality. What might you suggest in the way of a tablet to connect to PC/Mac (pref either as I have both) to do "freehand art"?

Not sure what my price range is for tablet and pen but certainly nothing sub $200 would give me pause. (Well, I mean I'd buy it - may not be right off ;) ) More if need be, sure - I may still consider this.

I don't want to get a pure toy, unless it is a decent enough toy to get use of and cheap. Otherwise, I'd rather spend cash to have something I can use for a while and to do detailed mapping that I can decently resize while maintaining legibility if need.


Thoughts? Not sure I even asked the right questions or described what I need to to get feedback on this.

[damned]

If you want a tablet under $200 it will be a drawing tablet. id look at the Huion range - they are cheap and decent quality. You will have to learn to draw in one place while seeing your results in another.
It takes getting used to.
i dont think you will find a decent drawing tablet where you draw on the screen that you see the results on (eg surface pro, ipad pro) for that budget.

[arcnon]

you really dont need a tablet to make maps and in my experience most folks who get one put it on a shelf to collect dust and go back to the mouse. You can use from gimp, paint.net to photoshop. I personally use photoshop because I can do a canvas of 5000px by 5000px then apply a 50x50 pixel grid in seconds. With practice there isn't even a need for cartography apps if it is your thing and if your not a artist type using existing map objects ie floors walls and what not can ease that burden as well.

[Haavok]

I have a Wacom Intuos Pro (Med) that I have used for some time now. Generally I'll do free hand drawings first and scan it in using Illustrator/Photoshop to create layers over top of them. For Isle of Dread I recently ran I made a new hand-out from the old one provided, turned it into a drawn map using the Intuos and brushes I made, then printed it out on parchment paper.

If and when I draw digitally, Surface Pro4 is weapon of choice. Only other I'd be interested in Cintiq16. Just my two copper.

Original17763 vs Photoshop'd17764 Final Handout17765

[Topdecker]

Combine a laptop purchase with a drawing tablet and get a Surface Pro or something similar. Otherwise, a scanner would be helpful if you do any paper sketching.

A small aside... I am not aware of CC3 having any features using or needing a tablet or other drawing device. If you were creating custom art assets, then yeah, you could use any number of software packages with pen support.

[Varsuuk]

Damned, that's what I meant - drawing tablet thingie, wasn't sure of the technology.

I recently bought the iPad Pro 9.7 (silly branding) because wanted to give son wife's old 64gb wifi only ipad 4 and this way give my wife my old 128gb cellular Air v1. I bought the 256gb model (pdfs and epubs for all lol love the space less than 120gb left but got a lot on it.)

I bought the pen for it as a gimmicky thing to play with and I liked it and how worked but wasn't majorly impressed with the apps I got or bought. But it's probably because if the screen size.

I don't think I'll be getting the new 11+ inch pad when it comes because I usually wait 2 cycles and next one will also be next n laptop sized because I already carry a macbook pro 15" in my briefcase to work... and a kindle paper white for novels...

My last laptop was a high end Dell many years back (cost more than my macbook pro) bug I wanted to expand into ios and mac coding and decided to get to kill that bird plus the "pretty and lightweight" bird. I bought my wife past august a new Air with 512ssd etc and I love the damn thing, so much lighter than my pro (bought after waiting for retina then seeing could self-upgrade so bought prior model an now it has 750ssd and 32gb ram - I'll suck up paying for Apple upgrades next time at purchase time :()

This xmas, I got my son one of those Dells with the twisty touch screen for tablet conversion - not a feature as cared for, picked it on cheapest light weight Dell with memory/speed desired.

I've looked at Surfaces - I like em. But I'm someone who needs 15" - getting up there and my vision, always bad, now has tricky stuff where near/far changes so drastically, I find it easier to use bigger screens.

Plus, I'd really like to stick to the Apple. I'm not an artist, there are only 2 selling features for me on Surface - great pen/screen feature and can run current FG natively.
i only use my laptop to code C++, Java and Swift and create FG content for games in addition to std web browsing and movie watching. Sometimes play youtube vids of tutorials while work on desktop.


If I could afford to buy a macbook AND surface this year, (I already dock my macbook, so i'd turn it into permanent desktop mode)I would but that's not in the cards. I just want a bigger "screen" to draw on. I'm pretty confident I can draw while looking at screen using a pen way better than with a mouse. Been using a mouse since Windows 2.0 but never have gotten good at drawing with one. Not even lame line drawings.

On real paper with pen, I'm not great or likely good - but I can draw better than most of my friends and family (except uncle who is an amazing artist and worked professionally as such) so for what I want, drawing on ipad pro or surface would be ideal (surface more so because can get props I can use on desktop also) but I think for cash - getting external drawing pad and pen is my second best.

I then could use some apps on PC to do simple fast maps. The CC3 is another thing, I was meaning I could post process maybe with tablet - but wasn't my main goal.


I'll check on Huoin thing and the Intuos to check current prices and what comes with/features.

I wish I could get a damn surface desktop thingie i saw come out recently, yeah huge overkill but i'm a PC nut ... and really I don't spend much on self dept these annual toys (prob is wife and son... they more than make up for my salary.. and cost of living/housing in NY...)

[Varsuuk]

Combine a laptop purchase with a drawing tablet and get a Surface Pro or something similar. Otherwise, a scanner would be helpful if you do any paper sketching.

A small aside... I am not aware of CC3 having any features using or needing a tablet or other drawing device. If you were creating custom art assets, then yeah, you could use any number of software packages with pen support.


Wow, I should NOT post late at night while on tablet where can't see how big it is. I tend to check forums etc while keeping son company your as he goes to sleep.

Anywho... re scanner, we have a standalone flatbed with adapters I bought to scan old wedding negatives plus wife's all in one injet thing but yeah, I prefer to keep it all digital... less "stuff" all over the place plus I tend to overcorrect and prefer erasing digitally.

[vodokar]

Why not just draw it out on graph paper and scan it in to the computer and clean it up in gimp. Much cheaper and likely easier for a non-artist to accomplish.

Also, don't knock the potential that a random dungeon map generator has. My favorite: https://donjon.bin.sh/5e/dungeon/ Playing around with that for awhile can usually get some good results.

[Varsuuk]

Why not just draw it out on graph paper and scan it in to the computer and clean it up in gimp. Much cheaper and likely easier for a non-artist to accomplish.

Also, don't knock the potential that a random dungeon map generator has. My favorite: https://donjon.bin.sh/5e/dungeon/ Playing around with that for awhile can usually get some good results.

Probably because I want to "play" on the computer :)
Don't try to talk sense to me! I am trying to plan out my next minor tax time present to myself. I loan Uncle Sam several thousand each year (ie, I don't claim enough exemptions)... just to get it back in a lump for a combo bill paying and toy-purchasing for me annually. This year, plan on only spending a little and waiting till later in year for the new laptop.

[Nickademus]

I few good recommendations here, but if it hasn't been mention, this is of utmost importance. You need a graphics tablet to digitally draw; the mouse will not work. The difference between a tablet and a graphics tablet is the graphics tablet registers pressure sensitivity for line variation. The mouse doesn't even gather this information. Some tablets that are not graphics tablets do not as well, while others might allow something with a track pad to simulate it. If you don't mind dropping some money on a good tablet, make sure to get one with pressure sensitivity and tilt recognition. This will give you an experience similar to drawing on the screen with a real pencil.

For a cheap tablet, I recommend getting a Wacom Bamboo (was ~$70) from amazon or ebay or wherever you can find it since it is no longer sold by Wacom. Or get a Wacom Intuos Draw (https://us-store.wacom.com/Product/Intuos-Draw-Small-S01#/undefined1) (~$80) for the warranty and current support.

[Varsuuk]

Nickademus,

You mentioned "for a cheap tablet" - what about then next grade up? $80 is fine and if that's a good tablet for what you described, all the better :)

But if there is a lot to be gained going up more - let me know how you feel about differing grades / price points. Appreciate it very much.

[Varsuuk]

looked on Amazon and saw the 8x6" at about 86 & the 10x8 at about 179.

I'd probably prefer the 179 one if this is a recommended tablet (vs upgrading for something better than the $86 one based on quality/features instead of size if there are other factors) I don't need/want it to have a display.

If the 86 & 179 one are equivalent in quality... perhaps I should get the 86 one and try it, If I find it something I actually use a lot, I can always upgrade to the larger size and give my son the smaller one to encourage him to draw on computer as well as paper which he does now.

Plus would allow me to keep an eye out for a good sale. I've seen wacoms on sale time to time on Amazon but cannot say which or how much since I was never looking at them, just noticed in passing.

[Nickademus]

I'm not a rich guy (so no $1,000 tablets), but if I had a small stock of money to invest in making art I'd get a Wacom Intuos Pro Medium (https://us-store.wacom.com/Catalog/Pen-Tablets/Intuos/wacom-intuos-pro#/undefined2) for $350 (switch size to medium on the drop down). I had an artist friend in college that swore by this tablet and I've been very happy with my Wacom tablet. Would even go for the $500 Large if I had the money and felt I needed the tablet size, though I tend to prefer a smaller tablet so my pen strokes don't need to be as broad.

[Nickademus]

looked on Amazon and saw the 8x6" at about 86 & the 10x8 at about 179.

I'd probably prefer the 179 one if this is a recommended tablet (vs upgrading for something better than the $86 one based on quality/features instead of size if there are other factors) I don't need/want it to have a display.

If the 86 & 179 one are equivalent in quality... perhaps I should get the 86 one and try it, If I find it something I actually use a lot, I can always upgrade to the larger size and give my son the smaller one to encourage him to draw on computer as well as paper which he does now.

Plus would allow me to keep an eye out for a good sale. I've seen wacoms on sale time to time on Amazon but cannot say which or how much since I was never looking at them, just noticed in passing.

Until you start seeing a 'Tile Recognition' level in the tablet specifications, it's not much different from the base Intuos. Most have around the same 1024 pressure sensitivity with additional features that might suit some particular project (or different surface areas).

[Haavok]

I say go with the Intuos, it is just flat out the better of the two, if you are serious that is; If not and you are just looking to mess around and dabble here and there, than the Bamboo would be a better choice for you.

[Bidmaron]

By now there has got to be an app for the iPad Pro that lets you use it as virtual paper connected to a mac or pc program. Surely one of our artists can chime in? Wyldfur you there?

[Varsuuk]

I was looking between:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B010LHRFYU/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

and

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B010LHRVOY/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&th=1

i.e. the 86 or 179 Intuos. The "Pro" model reference the 1024 levels I think, but even at like 350 it's more than I need if the 86/179 models are not toys. I think however, I'd be uncomfortable with a drawing tablet smaller than my ipad pro 9.7. It's why thinking maybe to go that high (179, vs the no brained I would buy... 86$ model)

[Varsuuk]

checking the amazon atracktor page, seems lowest was 149 around black friday but oddly it was 159 for months prior to that november and onley went up in January to 179. The smaller seems to have been 85-86 since november with small jump oddly around xmas to 99$


so, if I decide to pull trigger on 86$ one, I can get any time. No expected drop soon. But I'm not sure - it seems the drawing area is pretty small and I'd have to do a lot of panning (not that the medium one is all that much bigger...but still...)

[Nickademus]

I was looking between:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B010LHRFYU/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

and

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B010LHRVOY/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&th=1

i.e. the 86 or 179 Intuos. The "Pro" model reference the 1024 levels I think, but even at like 350 it's more than I need if the 86/179 models are not toys. I think however, I'd be uncomfortable with a drawing tablet smaller than my ipad pro 9.7. It's why thinking maybe to go that high (179, vs the no brained I would buy... 86$ model)
Those are both the same tablet, just different surface areas. That and the Intuos Draw that I linked first are both 1024 pressure levels. Neither have the tilt recognition, which is why I suggested the $350 model. It's up to you whether you want the tablet to act fully like a pencil and paper though. Depends entirely on what you are planning on doing and how professional you want to get. The big thing to remember is that this is a pad you draw on, not a display. You will be looking at a computer monitor, unlike the iPad.

[Jay_NOLA]

I'm trying to find an old post that asked the same question on what tablet to get, but I can give you some warning to be aware of.

The nibs on some pens like the Waycoms can wear out quickly. The newer ones seem to have this happen more.

Look at the cost of nibs and see if you can find reviews that give you information on how long they last for the tablet you want.

The wiring isn't that good on some of the newer Waycom tablets and some users reported fires.

Customer service is bad for Waycom tablets users have reported.

The old Intuis 3 was reported by many users as being the best Waycom tablet by many users and older tablet were in demand and could cost more because of this. I got to use a friend's in the past and it worked great.

Driver issues are a huge problem with most of the tablets.

Some users had to put a thin sheet of paper over certain tablets to avoid damaging them.

One of the tablets which was a good alternative to Waycom ones had a included pen that wasn't that good to use some users found for comfortably. The manufacturer of that tablet sold replacement pens that were better quality for about $10-$15 and the general advice was to order the better quality pen that was sold separately when you get the tablet as it was only about $10-$15. I think that was Monoprice.

Also if you get a tablet make sure you do all the proper adjustments, etc. for it that can cause nibs to wear out more quickly.

Some of the tablets have lots of sensitivity and you may not need that depending on what you are going to use the tablet for.

Read the negative reviews first on sites like Amazon etc. for the tablet you are looking at first. Those often point out the biggest problems.

[Nickademus]

Yeah, my friend had an Intuos 3. I haven't tried any of the newer models and would prefer the older ones honestly. The Wacom tablets come with a couple extra nibs, but a price check would be good.

[Varsuuk]

I can check that, I guess since it doesn't have tilt (I have that on my pen now but prob something that in end won't make much difference) maybe I am better off sticking to the 86 version and just seeing how goes.

I'm aware i'm not going to be looking at the tablet much but also (no experience) figured if have to lift the pen to go across a larger image that it would be less likely to happen with bigger surface area. Otherwise if both covered "same area" (possible I guess) just at different scale/resolution then it might be harder due to sensitivity/rest on such a small tablet.

Is that size tablet a "thing" for folks to use for things like mapping or do they go straight to bigger surfaces?

[Nickademus]

I'm not sure I understand your question. From my experiences, the tablet represents the entire screen. So the upper left corner of the tablet is the upper left corner of your monitor. Smaller tablets mean less distance you have to move your pen to get the cursor where you want.

[Varsuuk]

Sorry... see title ;) Me clueless.

I've never used a drawing tablet. So, if I had something like gimp up, how do I move to right spot on gimps canvas? I'll guess there is a cursor much like mouse which does not "draw" until you click something to start it?

what I meant about "resolution" is my IMAGINING that a small 6 inch surface representing my entire 27" screen means that the smallest of movement is scaled up to a bigger area on screen. So wouldn't a smaller drawing tablet make it harder to "translate" to a 2500x1400 (whatever those 27" screens are usually, not an HD model) pixel screen?

Again, air may be asking a gibberish question. No idea. Wish I could try one at at something me mortar store to get feel. But these are quite rare nowadays.

[Nickademus]

You are correct. The smaller the surface, the bigger the stroke will be on the screen. Some artists prefer this so they don't have to move their wrist as much (I mean it's rare that a non-digit artist will sketch on a 27" sketchbook). But others like using fluid strokes that would require a bigger tablet surface. Personally, I'd never get a Small-sized tablet. Large would be nice, but I consider Medium to be the compromise of space and cost.

[Jay_NOLA]

I think they added more extra nibs with the newer versions but the nibs wear out much quicker, so the extras aren't as good a deal as the manufacture likes peopleto think. The Intuos 3 was supposed to be the best one they made from what others have told me. Most of the problems appeared with the 4s and up.

Mappers like the bigger sufrace ones I've found.
3D-artist I've noticed like both smaller surface and larger surface. They also like ones that have lots of sensitivity.

[goodmanje]

The larger the tablet the better. I have a Large and Medium Intuos, a Cintiq Companion, and a small Bamboo. The large tablet is the easiest to use. Wacom is by far the top dog when it comes to graphics tablets but it really depends on how serious you are about it. They get expensive very quickly. One of the Wacom Bamboo tablets would be great for hand drawing maps and they are in the lower price range. I do a lot of digital painting so the Intuos series tablets are a must in my opinion.