Probably been said before...

[Kobey]

I only just started looking into FG and aside from the initial confusion of "Ultimate" packages and the marketing of it...actually...it's the marketing of it.

This is an awesome product but the way it's sold it makes it unnecessarily confusing and yes I do get the licensing aspects. Really all that needs to be said is:

$40 gets you the ability to combat track, create, edit, map, link and share any books, modules or add-ons you purchase for "any of these" games.
(get your marketing guys to spin that line)

Don't make it seem like other things are included just because it works with different rulesets which how it is marketed now. And scrap the Ultimate idea...yes again I understand it works in conjunction with the demo version (arguably that makes it "unlimited" because it's for just connections)...it's confusing and ultimately (ha) it's not worth it for just that reason and that sticker shock costs you business and for what?

Because really marketing is trying overly hard to make it seem like it offers more in every aspect they can. For example let 1-demo player join a standard version great...they will get hooked and buy it for the ability to mess around and save things alone. It's that easy and that works. But I think there is a far better way because FG *is* a legitimate product...and it will sell itself without the monthly rentals or marketing lingo trying to make it out to be more for less as it were.

Instead of a $4 monthly standard...make that key free for the first month and then make it upgradable to a standard...much like you make the standard keys "ultimate" for specific times. Streamlines your products as well though I cannot really comment on your revenue lines for each or the hassles they actually cause.

You just released (ha!...I will call it) the "basic" starter 5e stuff and have plenty of other open content...let people see the real value of your product and stop marketing it like you currently do because it is the best $40 GMs and gamers can spend and when they see how everything else links together well...just like the 5e Starter Box is the best $15 ever I spent on a set of RPG books since 1984...word will spread and people will not feel like you are trying to constantly rip them off to play.

Maybe I'm just getting old and jaded but the whole micro-transaction world and deliberate pretend it's "free / cheap" cause our marketing department says that works...well...a fully functional demo is awesome...but then just sell me a complete and legitimate product.

Well that came off as a bit of a rant...sorry...thing really is I walked away TWICE from this product when the reality was it IS exactly what I was looking for and if I had not spent so much extra time looking into it...I would not have bought it...and I would have in hindsight regretted that.

[damned]

Welcome Kobey.

Just a user replying here so observations only...
The marketing/positioning of each product has always been difficult to pitch.
Only the core licenses can be purchased in subscription - are they what you are calling the micro-transactions?
Subscriptions were added I believe to give an apples for apples price comparison with the other big VTT (well probably that and subscriptions are a healthier way for a company to manage their revenue too).
The last time numbers were published I think there were roughly 20-25% of all licenses sold were Ultimate so they definitely do sell and they are an important way to allow a GM to attract new players.
The subs did have a free for the first 30days option initially but it was dropped (I think it was creating admin hassles in the back end or some other such thing) in favour of a 30day money back guarantee.
It is hard to get the pitch right for FG...

Rant away... its ok :)

[Bidmaron]

Kobey, welcome to our community! You will find this a really great user community. A lot of places will say that, but of the many I'm involved in (well, used to be, anyway -- now really just RealmWorks and ProFantasy), this is the place that is the best. Hopefully, Dulux will chime in and direct you to all the great resources to assist you in your gaming and learning FG.

Caveat: I am, like damned (actually damned has some official functions that I don't have), just a user....

Kobey, we get your kind of complaint on the boards a lot less than we used to see before SmiteWorks evolved to where we are now. I really don't get what you are proposing as the solution. With all your e-mail, the only solid recommendation I can find is to let one demo license connect freely to a standard license and to eliminate subscriptions. (Maybe the presentation of options could be cleaned up though?)

There could be some merit to the free demo connect thing, but most people don't play one-on-one, and you really can't get the full sense of the power of FG until you selectively reveal things to players, entertain whispers, and share paid content freely in-game.

We have subscriptions because users demanded them. It has always amazed me that people would rather opt for those than buy something that costs on the order of dinner out with a spouse, but you would be amazed at how many threads we used to have clamoring for subscription options. It was almost a D-1R, as we say in the Navy (meaning a maintenance action you must do daily or more often if the equipment condition indicates maintenance is necessary).

[dulux-oz]

Hopefully, Dulux will chime in and direct you to all the great resources to assist you in your gaming and learning FG.

Well, since you asked...

Hi Kobey, and Welcome! to the Community,

I'm only going to echo what's already been said, because both damned and Bidmaron have pretty much covered it already - but yeah, we have heard it before and it's a lot better than it was, but it could still use some work, and I know that Doug and the rest of the SmiteWorks boys keep a close eye on the boards and also take every suggestion on its merits, so we do welcome people's ideas.

Now, on to Bidmaron's request: :)

Kobey, if you haven't done so already, let me encourage you to take a look at some of the great Tutorial Videos available on the Fantasy Grounds Wiki (and on YouTube). Damn's are good, as are Xorn's, and people seem to like mine as well (mine are also available from the links in my sig, below).

Start with the ones on the CoreRPG, because the CoreRPG forms the foundation of just about all the RPGs we play with Fantasy Grounds - so by learning how to use FG with the CoreRPG you'll learn about 80% of what you'll need to know to play any RPG with Fantasy Grounds. Once you've gone through the CoreRPG Videos you can then go on to Videos about your chosen RPG.

When you get familiar with the basic Fantasy Grounds product the next step is to check out some of the Extensions (Plug-Ins) for FG, such as the DOE: Sound, DOE: Locations, DOE: Weather and DOE: Organisations Extensions (to name a but a few).

And keep on asking questions - we're a pretty friendly lot here, and we love answering questions.

Cheers

[ddavison]

Thanks for the feedback. We try to listen to all feedback and use it to evolve over time.

The gist of the message, I think, is that too many options are confusing to customers. Everyone has a different set of expectations when they come into the system, though, depending on what sort of thing they've done in the past and what they plan to do with the software. All I can say in response is that our numbers indicate that each of the options that is currently presented are all almost equally used. We see people come in with a Standard (both subscriptions and 1-time payments) and then a fair number of those eventually upgrade to an Ultimate. We also see a decent number of people jump right in with an Ultimate and often with that and a full D&D bundle.

It is absolutely possible that we could make a dramatic change to how and what we offer and do better overall, but we wouldn't be able to test that unless we actually made the change. Once made, it would be irreversible in most cases. As long as the business is solid and growing (which it is), we are less likely to gamble on a big change to how things are done. We will continue to evaluate things over time though, and that stance could change down the road.

[Kobey]

Let me start off by apologizing for my initial disjointed post. I should really write myself an app that blocks a commit button if I make more than a handful of grammatical errors because is inevitably means it's too late or too many beers and can wait till morning.

I do realize everyone there understands the marketing issues far better than I seem to have given credit for and that there is no single quick and easy improvement.

I also understand the difficulty of trying to appeal to the broadest possible base and that in your case that base spans literally generations of people across numerous platforms which you yourself have to license.

Still it was in fact the confusion of packages and what they offered that turned me away not just once but twice.

And it was in fact the online demos and podcasts of play that brought me back to take additional looks at FG.

For me that's highly unusual...If anything I am an optimist that envisions the best and tends to jump in only to be disappointed when things fall short of my hopeful expectations.

So for me with FG having the exact opposite experience has somewhat unnerved me.

I've been playing since I was 10...I literally own bookcases full of RPGs going back to the Red Basic box set and the first grey padded floppy copy of Adventure Colossal Caverns and everything between then and now.

I'm now 45, a data analyst with a C and SQL background with my own kids turning 10 and bought them the Starter Box for 5e just cause...I have far more disposable income and far less time and while I may not be the only target market FG should have been a simple slam dunk purchase for me...and yet I struggled, repeatedly, with it.

And if I have had that experience I can only imagine how many others gave up and didn't bother.

[Myrdin Potter]

Kobey - I have been here less than 2 years, and I have seen Doug take input likes yours seriously over and over again. The website is an excelecent example, someone wrote a fairly negative review of their front page, but took the time and effort not to be personal, but to point out why it was not bringing people in and gave examples of improvement. I bet Doug had fix the website on his list already but not super long after those posts a much better looking front page showed up.

The number one mistake that I see people make when looking at the different tiers is mistaking what "Ultimate" gives you. A fair number think you need it to get rules and DLC and/or more rules and DLC comes with it when it really just is an option for the DM to allow players with the demo client to connect and play.

I think it is fairly clear that if you know what a VTT is to figure out what FG offers (I was sold mainly on all the WoTC DLC just there and ready to run). What I see often out in the wild are people looking for a digital assistant to run their games and/or digital rules and they just never seem to realize that FG (and the main competitor) offer what they want and that FG has been offering it with all the rules ever since they received the license.

The other constant issue, and this is due to advertising, is the perception that the competitor is free and FG is not when the truth is that FG is just as free if the DM has the Ultimate license and even if the players all have the first tier license, you get a program with all the ruleset automation at that level with all the features which is not true for the competition. That is hard to market against, sometimes for the simple reason that people that want free all the time are hard to build a business around.

I find the best thing to do is be a little more vocal on my social media about what FG can do and hope it makes a difference. I am sure that Doug and his crew would love to hone the pitch and make it even more successful but us gamers are a remarkably diverse and ornery lot.

[LordEntrails]

To me, the biggest issue, and I think where people get confused, is simply with the word/title of "Ultimate". The connotations of that word imply everything. That if you get the Ultimate, not only do you never need to get something else, but that you have everything there is to get. Which is not the case for the Ultimate FG license. A name change to Unlimited is certainly worth considering :)

[Kobey]

To me, the biggest issue, and I think where people get confused, is simply with the word/title of "Ultimate". The connotations of that word imply everything. That if you get the Ultimate, not only do you never need to get something else, but that you have everything there is to get. Which is not the case for the Ultimate FG license. A name change to Unlimited is certainly worth considering :)

Actually that was exactly what my first "walk away" was related too...for that price and the way things were written I initially thought it came with core books and allowed multiple demo copies to connect and then upon closer inspection realized it really just meant more than 1-demo copy could join.

DMs have always had to carry the burden as it were (financially and physically) to get games going but it's an accepted fate. That however seemed to rub in salt and doubly so when you can get a 4-standard package +1 additional on steam for the same price.

And not so side track my own post but even the discounted bundle while offering a real savings is a real investment and could use breaking up a bit into more bite sized pieces like a "3-core books" package and "all other books" package and "all modules" type thing. The Complete bundle seems flawed in the longer it takes someone to learn about FG the more products are out and the more expensive that becomes but that probably has more to do with licensing than anything.

[Nylanfs]

Clarification, the 4-standard package +1 additional on steam for the same price isn't AFAIK 5 total licenses. You get one license for yourself and 3 to share with friends.

Additional note if you already have a FG license activated in Steam you can't buy this package.

[Kobey]

Clarification, the 4-standard package +1 additional on steam for the same price isn't AFAIK 5 total licenses. You get one license for yourself and 3 to share with friends.

Additional note if you already have a FG license activated in Steam you can't buy this package.

...I didn't know about the activated license and multiple purchases conditions on steam but was just counting # of licenses and cost...
A 4-license discounted package from steam +1 additional standard license is pretty much the same price as 1-Ultimate license.

I do see the overall value in it as an unlimited number of people can play for free with one ultimate-gm but at the same time as I mentioned GMs are the ones who already shoulder the larger share of things.

I know this probably sounds like I'm disgruntled when really I'm not. I own the hardcovers and have no qualms buying additional electronic versions and with the functionality of FG backing it up I do think it's money well spent and unquestionably time saved...and it's very cool.

I just think there has to be a better way to explain the options and costs because if people don't (like I did not in the beginning) take the time to understand it all, or figure it out quickly and easily once they are here, then within 2-clicks to the cart a ultimate license and complete set of 5e is $465 total and the 3rd click is going to be on the [x].

Anyway, I won't belabor the point further I think everyone gets it I just wanted to give my thoughts on the experience.

[Andraax]

...I didn't know about the activated license and multiple purchases conditions on steam but was just counting # of licenses and cost...
A 4-license discounted package from steam +1 additional standard license is pretty much the same price as 1-Ultimate license.

I do see the overall value in it as an unlimited number of people can play for free with one ultimate-gm but at the same time as I mentioned GMs are the ones who already shoulder the larger share of things.

Some groups have "rotating" GMs - this would be a better option for them than one person getting Ultimate and the rest playing with demos (because then, only the one person could be the GM).

[Kobey]

Yes I get that as well though really in my opinion that's sort of the confusing overarching catch because now if you have a group of dedicated players they need to figure out a bunch of what-ifs and who's and it only gets more complicated and expensive and ends up almost separating people over time.

As soon as someone else wants to GM in a dedicated group either the "free" option for the rest disappears...or I guess the new GM could just decide to pony up another $150-ultimate because at that point unless you have a group of 7-8 people it would have been far more flexible and practical for everyone to just go standard in the beginning. And really if you have 7-8 dedicated people to start with odds are 1-2 others at some point will want to try GMing. And GMs are what make it all work so why put even more of a burden on them for doing it.

Which brings me back to my original point of the $40-standard and free/cheaper options not really being be free or cheaper and makes this a lot more confusing instead of flexible and that's got to cut into the bottom line as people walk away instead.

[damned]

In the Age of Steam and DLC the Ultimate does indeed present at first glance as something more.
The Ultimate License predated FGs appearance on Steam and I havent as yet thought of another name that cant similarly be mistaken except perhaps something like GM License but that is incorrect on more levels because the Full License is also a GM license, or Group License which is also incorrect or misleading because the license (or more accurately the GM Role) cannot be shared amongst the group...
One day someone will hit the nail on the head...

[damned]

Most of my regular group have Ultimate Licenses. We all GM at various times and we all GM for other people too.
It started with one Ultimate though.

[Myrdin Potter]

If someone only wants to DM every once and a while, they can just do an ultimate subscription. 2 months is $20. If everyone does the standard license then you can swap DM at will and the group buy makes it cheaper (I thought the price was 4 licenses for the price of 3 but I have not looked recently). The only benefits to having a license if you do not plan on being a DM is to be able,to join other games where the DM does not have the Ultimate license and being able to own and access DLC that you can use when not connected to the DM.

[Zacchaeus]

One thing to possibly consider if you do have a group and several of you would like to DM is to take out a monthly subscription. That person can then DM for the month (or more) and when someone else wants to do the DMing is cancel the subscription and have the new DM take out a subscription and so on.

[Kobey]

I do agree all of those options work and can be of use to a certain degree in certain situations. But the fundamental disconnect of dedicated players and "free only with an ultimate-gm" remains. It's not free...the GM pays so they do not have too.

dang...It's really that simple...and that makes for a horrible sales pitch...and now I see why the water got muddied as it were. A demo will not cut it and you need to compete against other free stuff and GMs are used to taking the hit. So we build our libraries like we always do and get people show up to play...which they won't if there is a cover charge to get in.

I concede the vast majority of my arguments...I still say there has to be a better way to "explain the options" it but I finally understand why the model exists the way it does.

[damned]

Hey Kobey - what game systems do you play/run? Have you talked your group into trying it with FG yet?

[Kobey]

Hey Kobey - what game systems do you play/run? Have you talked your group into trying it with FG yet?

A lot of us have been around together a long time but the past...decade(geeze)...our gaming has been more random online stuff where we could fit it in and if someone wasn't there meh...

5e has me itching for the most part. But fact is time and distance are the obstacles. I have no doubt we'd all get hooked right back in but keeping it going is another matter.

After a lot of time watching far too many other people play and tutorials
my solution or attempt will be FG in a face to face day to start.

Figure dual monitors one facing me one facing them running a DM and Player respectivly. Sort of a hybrid PnP and VTT with Phandelver and player core rules. That should do it.

FG standard for myself will get that done. Then depending on how things go I will probably end up going Ultimate so they can go free.

There could be 6 of us though I can easily see that becoming 10 if kids get involved at times but realistically I'd probably run seperate campaigns with split groups if thats how it goes.

[damned]

The dual screen at the table is quite a common scenario these days. As is the once regular gaming group cruel-ed by time and distance.
You would probably find that 10 players on a VTT would struggle - not the app, but keeping everyones attention on the game.
5e is a great system to get people started with again - it is simple enough to just start playing but has more complexity of you want it.

[Kobey]

Question about DMing and FG (as I hijack my own thread). Can I run the equivalent of PCs during such a dual session on the DM side akin to if they were really connected?

[Trenloe]

Start up another instance of FG on the same computer, "Join Game" with an address of localhost - this allows you to see (and do) as a player in one instance and the GM in the other.

[Kobey]

Thanks just found the same answer in the proper forum using search like I should have done to start ;)

[Kobey]

The dual screen at the table is quite a common scenario these days. As is the once regular gaming group cruel-ed by time and distance.
You would probably find that 10 players on a VTT would struggle - not the app, but keeping everyones attention on the game.
5e is a great system to get people started with again - it is simple enough to just start playing but has more complexity of you want it.

I will admit I have already started to expand the thought...my dinning room table is glass...I could mount the second screen directly underneath it so it became an actual board...

My wife will flip but it could be super cool.

[damned]

You can do this two ways (it was probably me that hijacked it - sorry) -
You can open the character from the character selection window and run them exactly as a player would - they just wont appear in the top left of the screen. Rolls will also show that they were done by the GM as that character.

Or you can open a localhost session and you get a separate window and when you grab one or more characters they will appear in the top left and rolls will also appear as that character.

[Trenloe]

I will admit I have already started to expand the thought...my dinning room table is glass...I could mount the second screen directly underneath it so it became an actual board...

My wife will flip but it could be super cool.
I've been using a second screen as an electronic map in face-to-face games for a while now. This extension will help you get the maps just the right size: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?33834-Map-resize-to-TV-resolution-for-Face-To-Face-games

[Kobey]

I've been using a second screen as an electronic map in face-to-face games for a while now. This extension will help you get the maps just the right size: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?33834-Map-resize-to-TV-resolution-for-Face-To-Face-games

omg...that is...awesome

[Nylanfs]

This is what I'm planning on when wife and I move to a larger house.

https://imgur.com/gallery/FJN4B

[Callum]

To me, the biggest issue, and I think where people get confused, is simply with the word/title of "Ultimate". The connotations of that word imply everything. That if you get the Ultimate, not only do you never need to get something else, but that you have everything there is to get. Which is not the case for the Ultimate FG license. A name change to Unlimited is certainly worth considering :)

Yes, I agree with this 100%

[Trenloe]

As damned mentioned above, I think that the name would be changed if there was a short, catchy one that wouldn't cause confusion. Any ideas?

[Topdecker]

Community edition would be my vote. It doesn't infer much meaning without someone digging a bit deeper, but it does a better job of explaining what it forms.

[Zacchaeus]

My initial thought was something like Dungeon Master's version but that opens up another can of worms so I rejected it. Still thinking.

[Trenloe]

Community edition would be my vote.
Interesting idea. The main issue I'd see with this is that we widely use "community" to mean stuff developed by the forum members and the rest of the FG community at large. My first thought upon hearing "community edition" would be to think it was an open source version of FG developed/modified by the community. I certainly wouldn't think that it was the license that allows everyone to play for free. Yes, it might require someone to dig a little deeper - but the main problem raised by this thread is about first impressions and not having to dig deeper to find out what things actually mean - I think potential users who are willing to do a little bit of research/reading are already covered.

[LordEntrails]

So, I like Unlimited, but here are some other words that might evoke something;
Limitless
Unrestricted
Master
Site
Enterprise
Group
Principal
Maestro

So, you could try synonyms of those or something like putting them together;
Unlimited Master
Unrestricted Group
Infinite Group

[Topdecker]

I am not sure how to arrive at a brief descriptive identifier for what the Ultimate version does...

Lend-Lease edition
Party edition (which would lead to the PARTY ON DUDE edition...)
Extended license
Freeloader version

I will say that Ultimate seems to indicate that it has more features or something. It is an odd term for what it does.

[Wookiee420]

I like Master, you can call it Master Edition, Adventurer Edition, and Squire Edition....or something like that

[SirGraystone]

Since a DM is the god of his world, God edition

[damned]

The closest ones that Ive come across that work on some level for me are:

Advanced Edition
Extended Edition

To me they dont imply additional DLC but they do imply extra features. The prospective purchaser will still need to do their research but I imagine that for $149 you are going to research.

The current Full License would become Standard Edition.

Im sure that these names would still infer different things to different readers.

[Nickademus]

I'd go with:

Standard Licence
Open Licence

'Open' is generic enough to make people ask 'what is open about it', which would motivate research where they see their games would be open to any FG license. 'Standard' does what people would assume a license does (allow playing and GMing).

[Nylanfs]

Why not "Freeloading friends" edition.:-)

[dulux-oz]

I'm not so sure - "Open" seems (to me at least) that the software is "Open-Source". OK, so I may be in the minority in terms of the population, but if "Ultimate" is causing people issues than "Open" is also going to cause issues (IMNSHO).

I'm leading towards "Extended", "Advanced" or even "Host Edition".

[LordEntrails]

I don't like Open either.

By itself, I don't like "Extended", but when you place that next to "Demo", "Full", & "Extended" it has good connotations. You've got the demonstration license, the fully functional license and the something more license. "Extended" doesn't imply grandiosity, but it implies more than a "Full" license. Few negative connotations or assumptions would be made. And people would take a minute to figure out just what it includes (rather than assuming).

[JohnD]

I suspect that regardless what you call it there will be people who have issues or choose to have issues.

We are talking about a hobby that traditionally sees very few actually pay for anything (books, miniatures, maps, dice, software, etc...) and the balance essentially show up and access those things.

Not to say that it isn't a good discussion to have.

[Bidmaron]

Why not deluxe?

[dulux-oz]

"Deluxe" has the same conatations as "Ultimate" - it may lead people to believe they are getting more (of the DLC) than the plain "Full". (IMNSHO)

[Bidmaron]

Perhaps. Why not demo standard and full then?

[Moon Wizard]

The license that is now called Standard, used to be called Full.

In addition to the consideration of finding the right name (which as you can see is not easy), changing the titles can cause even more confusion as marketing, reviews, etc. will lag or refer to different "editions".

Regards,
JPG

[Asterionaisien]

Considering "soon" there will be a new "edition", the Unity one, what better time to change the names? I would go with novice, adventurer and Game Master edition, becausethey are somewhat related to their real functionality, especially the last one.

[Zacchaeus]

Considering "soon" there will be a new "edition", the Unity one, what better time to change the names? I would go with novice, adventurer and Game Master edition, becausethey are somewhat related to their real functionality, especially the last one.

Well, not really because the GM can use the Standard license for his games provided all of his players have that too. This is the crux of the problem is getting across in one word that the only real difference between the Standard and Ultimate license is that with the latter the DM can host games for anyone that just has a demo license. I agree with other posters who have said that it doesn't matter what it's called it will still never really get that point across and will still cause confusion.

[Gooberosity]

Maybe..

Personal Edition
Host Edition

??

[Trenloe]

Maybe..

Personal Edition
Host Edition

??
Both the current standard and ultimate can both host games, so "host" isn't really an option IMO. Personal edition suggests it's just for you and you can't run a game.

All the above goes to prove the point - different names mean different things to different people (which was my intent behind asking the question in the first place - although I had hoped/still do hope that there might be a good solution out there). As Moon also has said, changing the name can cause issues with marketing and reviews. Might we see a name change with FGU? Maybe, perhaps, who knows... ;)

[LordEntrails]

I still like "Unlimited".

It's close to Ultimate so many people reading reviews etc will think it's just due to confusion and make the unconscious substitution. It implies an unlimited number of uses and/or users. It doesn't imply additional content, and I don't think it confuses the Standard license at all.

And, I wouldn't make any changes until unity.

[Nickademus]

Actually, 'Unlimited' to me makes it seem like the 'Standard' version has a limitation on how much it can be used. I guess this is due to the phrases 'unlimited minutes' and 'unlimited texting' for phones now-a-days.

[Kobey]

Actually, 'Unlimited' to me makes it seem like the 'Standard' version has a limitation on how much it can be used. I guess this is due to the phrases 'unlimited minutes' and 'unlimited texting' for phones now-a-days.

But is that not really the point...the only difference between Standard and Ultimate is the fact there is a limitation on how many free versions can connect to them.
The easier it is for people to realize what they are getting (i.e. the product does not change functionality or content based on price), the less chance they get confused and wander off.

Unlimited - Fully functional - any number of free versions allowed to connect.
Standard - Fully functional - only 1-free version allowed to connect.
Free - requires a Standard or Unlimited version to connect to.

Also makes encouraging people to upgrade a bit simpler in that:
"Upgrade from the Free to Standard version and you can join anyone anywhere"
"Upgrade from the Standard to Unlimited version and you can have anyone anywhere join you"

[Trenloe]

Just an FYI for everyone: Standard doesn't really allow one free version to connect. Yes, a single connection only can be a free license - for one-on-one demo/gaming purposes, no other free license can connect and if one licensed user connects the free user gets booted.

Therefore the current licenses (based off the last post, with the current names) provide the following (non-demo) functionality:

GM using Ultimate - Fully functional - any combination of free, standard or ultimate can connect. i.e. allows all licenses, with no connection limit.
GM using Standard - Fully functional - requires a standard/ultimate license to connect. Any number of standard and ultimate licenses can connect to a Standard GM. No free licenses can game for a Standard GM session.
Player using Free - requires a GM with an Unlimited version to connect to.

[Kobey]

ahhh...and see even after everything I still had that wrong :cry:
Standard can only have 1-connection?
...so if there are 6-people all with standard versions they cannot all join together or is it that if there are other standards playing a free-version cannot?

[Nickademus]

or is it that if there are other standards playing a free-version cannot?

This.

[Kobey]

Ahh...

I thought if everyone was a standard version including the GM they could still invite a (single) demo to try it out.

[Trenloe]

I thought if everyone was a standard version including the GM they could still invite a (single) demo to try it out.
For a Standard GM: Only a single connection (1 in total for the whole session) can be a free license when connecting to a Standard GM - this is for one-on-one demo/training/gaming purposes only, no other free license can connect to this session and if one licensed user connects the free user gets booted.

[Nickademus]

Isn't is also possible for a demo license to host for one demo license, but the campaign is not saved.

[Kobey]

Isn't is also possible for a demo license to host for one demo license, but the campaign is not saved.

I thought so but kind of glossed over that option...plus I was wrong about the way standard worked.

And "demo" is not the best name, free is what it is...demo I think carries more of "things are missing / time constrained" connotations and typically demo's need to be upgraded to some sort of full version to get everything to work.

Sitting here thinking about what caused my initial confusion and frustration though it was less to do with who could connect and when and more to do with the way the supported rulesets (and not the data libraries) were presented in conjunction with the Ultimate version. But as this thread kind of illustrates it gets muddled quickly in how it all gets perceived.

Edit:
Having said all this and just now going back to the home page and reading it all again it has gotten better...or maybe my better understanding of everything has made it more understandable.