Have a little common courtesy people. Please.

[Graiskye]

I know this post probably stands a good chance of getting me ostracised, and thought off in no good light by many here, but oh well, this needs to be said.
As a DM trying to provide a fun game for players, I work hard to try to always have enough players showing up to play. I know many DM's do the same thing, and I know many have experienced the same things I have.
For instance why is it the PC rarely feels any sort of commitment to a game, if they dont like it, they just stop showing up, no note, no nothing. What is up with people like this? Is it so hard to send just a simple note, saying whatever, 'I dont like your game I quit', for all I care, its better than the alternative.
It just seems theres a different set of standards that a player has to abide by, than a DM. If I just flaked out, and never showed up again, what would my players think. I can just imagine the emails. Is it any different for a player. I dont think so, but apparentley most players do.

To just stop coming shows just a total, and basic lack of respect for everyone else involved. I realise its the easiest way to get out of a commitment you do not want to commit to anymore, but really, its a email message.
Im an adult, I can handle the fact that not everyone is going to think my game is the be all end all,(I dont think that, why would anyone else). Im a fledgling DM with a lot too learn, so its not uncommon for a person to not really think my game was what they were looking for, and that is cool. I have recieved emails saying that exact thing, and I ,sincerely, thank them for their honesty, and wish them well, no big deal, just a simple act of courtesy.
Its not just a FG proplem, this is a pattern I see repeated over an over, and not just my game, Ive talked to other DM's who experience the exact same, and feel the same way as I do.
So the point, maybe next time a player go's to to quit a game you have committed to, by just fading into the night, you'll think twice, and think about the other people involved, we are all adults, and should act accordingly. Grai

[Alkaven]

And this is why I don't run full-length campaigns anymore. ;)

[kalmarjan]

For instance why is it the PC rarely feels any sort of commitment to a game, if they dont like it, they just stop showing up, no note, no nothing. What is up with people like this? Is it so hard to send just a simple note, saying whatever, 'I dont like your game I quit', for all I care, its better than the alternative.


There there! TRUST me, I understand your pain. I created a yahoo group just for this. Since January of 2005, I have had 55 people participate in my RTTTOEE campaign. So, I understand your frustration.

Let me put it to you this way though. :)

A lot of the people who buy FG are 'casual' users. That is, they are interested in having a game or two... and are probably looking at it like baulder's gate or something like it. On the internet, that is the facts of life. One benefit from the internet is the ability to meet a whole slew of people to participate in your game. The con is, because of the transient nature of the game... there are a lot of drop outs as well. Lets face it: These people are not really willing to commit, so they are just there to have fun, and have no qualms about dropping from your game without so much as <cartmanvoice> "Hey... Screw you guys... I'm goin' home!" </cartmanvoice>

Think of this platform like you are at a huge gaming store with a large gaming room. You have rented that room during gaming hours... and people are dropping in to play. [This is actually what happened to me, I DM'd the Night Below from 97-99 in that format.] I had soooo many players join that disappeared that my head would spin if I cared about it. Sometimes the group size was 18 people! It really did not bother me, because I was having fun, most (That is hopefully everyone except the ruleslawyers) were having fun as well. My game was always open. It still is today.

Hope this brightens things up for you, and don't sweat it;

I have 5 core players now with a potential 6th, and I am super happy that I have them, even if I had to go through 49-50 players to get it that way.

Cheers,

Sandeman

[Alkaven]

I've had dedicated players in the past, but dedication is a measure of time and tolerance in the end. Every player I've had has always gotten bored at some point and decides to quit. Sometimes I don't even get that confirmation, they just stop showing up to sessions.

Full length campaigns span waaaaay too long. There's a really good chance someone will lose interest at some point in the campaign. To most DMs, it doesn't matter, cause they have their way of dealing with it: NPCing the PC, coincidental death, or the dimensional hole in the universe.

I actually care about the PC's place in the world. I could never bring myself to simply overlook the absense of a crucial actor in the story that is unfolding before me.

Ultimately, it's just a game. As Kalmarjan said, the idea is to have fun, and a lot of players are going to be just casual gamers. Nothing really lasts forever.

[richvalle]

I think the medium we are using, online playing, makes it easier to bail as well. If someone dropps out they can just ignore your emails, stop showing up ect.

If one of your friends wants to drop from a face to face game, they are going to tell you because you see them on a regular basis anyway.


But, I agree. Saying something would be nice.

rv

[Prince Bertram]

Players! Don’t be a DIP – Be HIP!

I imagine everyone who has tried to GM a Fantasy Grounds game has experienced the phenomena of the “Discourteous Inconsiderate Player” or DIP – players who don’t show or vanish without a word, sometimes even in mid-game!

Hopefully, though, current and potential players reading this particular thread will choose not to be DIPs, but instead will choose to be HIP – Honorable Involved Players – players that are considerate enough to drop a line saying they aren’t going to show up or that the game you’re running, for whatever reason, is not for them.

I know technology gives everyone a great big +5 shield of anonymity, but people should still treat each other with common courtesy. In the meantime, however, I’ll be making my DIP saving throws at DC 25 or higher. :)

-Prince Bertram

[wavecutter]

I'm going to throw my 2 cents in. (I think I provided the incentive for the parent post)

First I sign up and wait months for Gray's game. I get a shot and my schedule changes. I pop an email some 16 or so hours before the game because I spent 2 days hoping my schedule would revert back to normal. To add to this I keep recieving these negative emails of this guy bawling people out in this forum and that forum. So when I sent the email I figured I was being courteous but I get this really negative email from this guy which I belive was totally uncalled for and was in part, a resaon for not wanting to participate in the first place.

A little background on me. I have been in a regular gaming group for the past six months. We don't have a problem with negativity or a GM with a bad temper. I game to have fun and relax not get wound up. I don't allow it in my life and certainly not in the games I play.

So what do you think? Was it courtesy to send him an email? Or should I have just not showed up? Did I deserve to get bawled out? I'd like to let the community be the barometer here because I belive his response was wayyyyy over the top.

[Bumamgar]

I game with Wavecutter every Saturday, and interact with him on our forums in-between sessions. He's always curtious and never causes any hassles.

Thats my $0.02.

[wavecutter]

Thanks for the suppport.

I'd also like to add that we know you DM's work hard. But please understand not all people fit right together. Please don't take it so personal if someone dosent want to play in your game. There are a hundred other willing to take his or her place.

[richvalle]

I'm going to throw my 2 cents in. (I think I provided the incentive for the parent post)

First I sign up and wait months for Gray's game. I get a shot and my schedule changes. I pop an email some 16 or so hours before the game because I spent 2 days hoping my schedule would revert back to normal. To add to this I keep recieving these negative emails of this guy bawling people out in this forum and that forum. So when I sent the email I figured I was being courteous but I get this really negative email from this guy which I belive was totally uncalled for and was in part, a resaon for not wanting to participate in the first place.

A little background on me. I have been in a regular gaming group for the past six months. We don't have a problem with negativity or a GM with a bad temper. I game to have fun and relax not get wound up. I don't allow it in my life and certainly not in the games I play.

So what do you think? Was it courtesy to send him an email? Or should I have just not showed up? Did I deserve to get bawled out? I'd like to let the community be the barometer here because I belive his response was wayyyyy over the top.

It was courteious (sic) for you to send the email. As for the return email its probably best to just shrug and move on knowing you made the right choice in the first place.

rv

[Graiskye]

Wavecutter , I like to keep this crap in private, where it belongs, but seen as you want to drag it out for all too see. Here you go. You said right in your email. "I problably should have sent this off earlier" , and you should have. And I told you as much. Should I have refrained, probably, did I right you a 1000 word hatemail, did I swear at you no, I called you an idiot, and that was that.
So too bad if your feelings got hurt. You knew exactly what you did, and your pissed cause I called you on it. l normally I would just say screw it another idiot, but, against my better judgement, I told you what I thought of what you did. You can call it whatever you want, I have another word for it... In the email reply I got from you , you used much more colorful language , and were much more to the point in telling me exactly what you thought of me.. I can respect that, and would never think of brining it into a public forum, you did that. I generally try to keep personal crap out of the forums.
I stand behind what I said, and I think any DM who has tried to do this for any length of time will probably agree with me. And if you dont thats ok. Just me making people think about it is all I wanted to do. So go ahead and reply in all the vehemence you can muster. It was a decision(sending you any email) I regret, but oh well Ill live with my shame. Graiskye ps, and tho Im sure you like to think of it as being so, you really werent the reason for the parent post, your just another in a long line buddy, I played with my group last night, 4 people played, and we had a great time, judging from the chat we had after the game anyways?

[gurney9999]

guys, please take this offline. This isn't going to do any good for anyone, either if you are trying to recruit additional players or trying to find a good group to join.

I agree that in an internet environment there is more anonymity and less chance of keeping up a consistent group. It is much easier to drop out of a group without having to feel bad about it when you don't have to see the group at all. On the other hand you have a much greater pool of people to recruit from. The plusses and minuses are out there, and we as DMs need to either work in a system where people coming and going is okay (as kalmarjan does) or go through the long process of getting a group of players that you feel will not leave over time.

Creating that DM/player group relationship is a hard thing to form in an internet setting, but it can be done. I wish you luck graiskye in developing that group.

[Sorontar]

If one of your friends wants to drop from a face to face game, they are going to tell you because you see them on a regular basis anyway.


This made me laugh to myself as you would certainly hope so wouldn't you.

I remember when a player who had begged to get in my game, one week sat down at the other table in the club and started to play in the game there. Not a warning beforehand nor an explanation afterwards.

I looked over, shook my head and carried on DMing for the players I had :D

[Stuart]

My tuppenceworth :
I've been pretty lucky so far and have managed to get a group of 6 players on Sunday and 4 (I hope!) on Friday. I cannot say too much about the Friday group as we have only played once but it was certainly fun !

Both groups have been tremendously supportive and patient as I have learned FG and got to grips with the nuts and bolts of 3.5 which is not my favourite platform.

I have had one player go awol and three others drop out over the 2 months we have been going. All three who dropped out apologized, we "chatted" and I note they occasionaly drop by adventuresome dreams; I sincerely hope all three have a game somewhere or will come back at some point.

As for the one player who plain vanished ... big deal. He played one session after creating a wizard and then never replied to PM's or answered any of the boards and was almost certainly a "casual user" as posted elsewhere.

However, player courtesy and DM courtesy is a biggie but a perceived lack of manners is not the fault of FG or RPG but of the electronic medium that we use. I'm sure you all at some point have received or sent an email that in hindsight was ... "charged". It is all too easy to sit anonymously at a PC hiding behind the "shield" referred to elsewhere and fire from the hip via the keyboard, pause and hit the send button ... SMITE !

Perhaps if this is an issue then those persistent offenders who keep dropping in and out and generally being a nuisance could be listed but I suspect that numbers would be so small that it is hardly worth the effort and besides ... it is only a game and a little bit of humility goes a very long way.

When I lived in the States a local radio station had a DJ who signed off every session with a very apt phrase and one that I have used repeatedly when dealing with parents of kids that I teach :

"It's nice to be important, but it's important to be nice"

Stuart

[vooood]

~ people are just too lazy nowadays to play a game in which they actually have to use their brains.. sad, but true.. furthermore looks like it's better to spend 4 hours watching tv or playing a stupid game that is just a directx showcase than play a game (not only rpg) that stimulates your imagination.. no.. i will not say anything.. i will get uspet and angry :D

[wavecutter]

I tend to agree, I had been playing alot of mmorpg's and got really tired of the no imagination factor. Thats why I came back to the PnP style.