Deadlands Reloaded: Guts & Grit VS a Spirit Check

[Will Tomorrow]

Hey all,


I'm an experience DM who is wailing baby new to the Savage Worlds system. I've noticed the discrepancy between the Savage Worlds Core Rulebook and The DLR Player's Guide regarding Guts and am curious as to you guys handle Fear within the setting.

I'm leaning towards making players invest into a custom "Guts" skill, governed by the Spirit attribute (Custom, since there is no "Guts" skill present in the drag and drop options, despite the presence of the game mechanic), taking precious points away from shooting, riding and notice, to account for the effect that fear has on them in the universe.

I guess my question is for more experienced GM's with the system - Is there an advantage to doing this as opposed to making them make a Spirit save with the associated modifiers for Grit, the environ and the fear level of the thing they're facing?

It seems like a bit of book keeping for something that could be handled with a simple stat check. On the one hand, it seems cumbersome, on the other, it seems like having to divest from combat skills to be brave enough to use them against a horrific entity in the first place might be essential for the 'vibe' of the universe.

So yeah, I'm currently unsure of what tact to take. I've read that it's only "Sissy" Marshal's that allow their players to use a Spirit Check over the Guts skilc. I don't want to nerf the experience, but I'm not one of those dudes that gets anything out of brutalizing players either.

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance, I'm really enjoying this community, so far!

[Mask_of_winter]

The Guts skill was removed from the latest edition of Savage Worlds (Deluxe edition) and replaced by a Spirit check to handle fear checks. Deadlands rules takes precedence over Deluxe's ruling in this case. This is RAW. As pointed out in Deluxe, the Guts skill is there for settings (Savage Worlds has several) where horror is a strong theme. A character could be well balanced and competent but ill-equipped to handle horrors.
That said, in most Savage Worlds games I run, I've defaulted to using Spirit for fear checks.
In the end, the decision has very little effect on how the game plays out in my opinion. It's mostly a matter of flavor. It also depends on how much horror you want to bring into your campaign.
However, keep in mind that a character can only raise one Attribute per rank compared to Guts skill that can be raised every Advance. So using Spirit is advantageous for lower rank characters but Guts is easier to increase and in the long run is better I think.

Oh, and welcome to Savage Worlds!

[Will Tomorrow]

However, keep in mind that a character can only raise one Attribute per rank compared to Guts skill that can be raised every Advance. So using Spirit is advantageous for lower rank characters but Guts is easier to increase and in the long run is better I think.

Oh, and welcome to Savage Worlds!

There is the real distinction! I wasn't aware of the rank requirement for attribute increase. That's the best argument for the Guts skill, for sure. Every other aspect of it that I'd looked at made adding the Guts skill seem like an abitrary nerf. Now I see that it's the only real way players will be able to overcome some of the serious fear modifiers from the more horrifying regions and foes. Explaining to my players the relative ease of advancing the skill VS advancing Spirit is definitely the tact to take as well, so that it doesn't come off as an additional restriction.

If I wasn't playing specifically in the Deadlands universe, I would definitely be using the straight spirit roll. Since I am though, the Guts mechanic seems like it is going to add a ton of flavor to the way the party interacts with various narrative threads though, at least on paper.

Thanks for the welcome, I've only briefly ventured outside of D&D on the tabletop, and so far, I'm enjoying Savage World's mechanics even more than 5E. Also really excited by the different universes. So much more room to stretch my legs as a story teller, without elves and sentient flaming swords.

[Talyn]

Welcome to Fantasy Grounds and to Savage Worlds!

Here's the relevant text in the SWD Player's Guide, and is also found on page 25 of the SWD book/PDF:

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=17533&stc=1&d=1484929236

[Will Tomorrow]

Yeah, I understand that it was removed from the Savage Worlds Core Rules, as I found the relevant info in the modules.

What I didn't find, is a Guts skill in the Deadlands Player's guide. All the rest of the skills are drag an drop. This one is referenced, but not an actual skill you can drag into a character sheet. That lead me to question it's relevancy in the system (as even though Savage Worlds specifically references it used in the setting, it's nowhere to be found in the Deadlands books I got in the Reloaded bundle).

I've read that is has something to do with edition printings and rules changes between them, and that it just kind of trickled into Fantasy Grounds as a result of the oversight in the original publishing. At any rate, I know it's governed by the Spirit attribute and Mask of Winter very nicely explained why using it is advantageous over a simple attribute check, so it'll definitely find its way into how I run the game, albeit as a jerry rigged skill we'll have to manually adjust the modifiers for when we roll.

[Doswelk]

What I didn't find, is a Guts skill in the Deadlands Player's guide. All the rest of the skills are drag an drop.
When the Deadlands ruleset and book was written, Guts was a skill in the rulebook hence not duplicated in Deadlands.

I am sure you know this but I made a video just in case showing how to create the Guts skill...

t2PdCW1Cw4g

[Talyn]

IC: /me straddles a barstool and sips a whiskey. With a glance each way, I look over to Marshal Doswelk's general direction. "Ya know, you could belly up to the bar and patch in that there Guts skill fer all yer townsfolk here... or are you yella?"

OOC: LOL +10 points towards the Doswelk Will Murder My Character Next FG Con pool. ;)

[Doswelk]

IC: /me straddles a barstool and sips a whiskey. With a glance each way, I look over to Marshal Doswelk's general direction. "Ya know, you could belly up to the bar and patch in that there Guts skill fer all yer townsfolk here... or are you yella?"

OOC: LOL +10 points towards the Doswelk Will Murder My Character Next FG Con pool. ;)

Deadlands Reloaded is PW's not mine :p

[Talyn]

GAAAHHH you've told me that how many times in PM and I just never learn! LOL Well, same sentiment with a s/Doswelk/phantomwhale then!

+2 Regex Geek points!

[Will Tomorrow]

When the Deadlands ruleset and book was written, Guts was a skill in the rulebook hence not duplicated in Deadlands.

I am sure you know this but I made a video just in case showing how to create the Guts skill...

t2PdCW1Cw4g



If it explains how to add it in such a way, so as to automatically account for the modifiers, I do not. I've been have my players right click, and create a generic skill named Guts.

Incidentally, when I go to "quote" you, I see a bit of youtube code, but no such video or link is visible in your actual post. Which is a round about way of saying I'd like another link, if you wouldn't mind.

[Mortar]

You should be able to just click on the image of video and it will take you there.

Doswelk's Guts skill video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2PdCW1Cw4g)

[Will Tomorrow]

Hrmmm... It must be an issue with my browser, as I don't get an image of the video, just a blank space with nothing interactable. Your link to it worked for me though, thank you!

[Mortar]

You're welcome ;)

[Doswelk]

If it explains how to add it in such a way, so as to automatically account for the modifiers, I do not. I've been have my players right click, and create a generic skill named Guts.

Incidentally, when I go to "quote" you, I see a bit of youtube code, but no such video or link is visible in your actual post. Which is a round about way of saying I'd like another link, if you wouldn't mind.
Just viewed this page with Microsoft Edge, big white space where the video should be!

I see you have already been sent another link, hope it the video helps. Did not put it in the video but the Grit modifier will need to be manually updated if Grit increases.

[Will Tomorrow]

Just viewed this page with Microsoft Edge, big white space where the video should be!



Yeah, same with my Google Chrome, for whatever reason. Video was helpful and then some. Concise, direct, clear. Great content, you have my thanks!