Alternate Initiative Method and Declaring Actions

[poppy_thompson]

Hello! I have been in discussion with a fellow DM about variant initiative rules/methods. One of the methods we discussed was rolling initiative after every round. I like this method for the sake of allowing the quicker characters the ability to have more attacks (generally speaking). As a piggyback to that method, my DM friend mentioned having his players declare their action prior to rolling the initiative to simulate the chaotic nature of battle.

We started to wonder if there was a way to automate this in FG? Something that would allow the player to 'enter' his/her action prior to rolling for the top of round initiative.

[LordEntrails]

I assume you are talking about 5E D&D? Ruleset matters.

I remember somebody posting an extension for this, but I don't see it in the list (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?22975-5E-Community-extensions) Maybe it's not useful anymore?

What you can do, is in the GM options, simple turn on Stop at Turn Beginning (I think that's what its called) and then have the GM re-roll initiative at the start of every round.

[poppy_thompson]

Agreed. The initiative portion of the discussion was easily resolved. I am pondering whether or not I will implement this in my games. It was the Declare Action portion that was perplexing. One of his players made the suggestion that FG had this capability. I have played or DM'd on FG for a few years and couldn't recall that feature. Granted, I have always used or played in games that implemented the single initiative roll per encounter.

Thanks for the information, though!

BTW ... Yes. We were discussing the 5E Ruleset. But, I would say these methods could be used in any system.

[LordEntrails]

Ah, I haven't implemented the rule, but have thought about it. If I had players that did a lot of metagaming I might do this. I do have smart players that are very aware of how initiative impacts there tactics so I know they take advantage of it. It is part of the reason my players are so good at tactics, but I just up the difficulty. We all still have fun, so I don't worry about it.

[Answulf]

You could create a list of standard actions under the Abilities tab of each player's character sheet (or create them as custom effects) and have players drag them to the chat window at the beginning of each turn...

Doing it with effects might work better, because then you could give them a 1 turn duration and they would pop up on their turn of initiative for everyone to see.

[poppy_thompson]

I see your point. The discussion came about as a way to simulate the encounter a little differently. Freshen things up from the standard. I, personally, was not looking to squash metagaming or throw a wrench in the player's tactical plans. (I don't think I was anyway.) :)

[poppy_thompson]

I thought about this when it was first brought up. I was thinking of how to automate the action in the effect. I read your suggestion as typing out the action in an effect so it shows up in the chat when the turn order is progressed.


You could create a list of standard actions under the Abilities tab of each player's character sheet (or create them as custom effects) and have players drag them to the chat window at the beginning of each turn...

Doing it with effects might work better, because then you could give them a 1 turn duration and they would pop up on their turn of initiative for everyone to see.

[damned]

There is no current way t declare an action but have it not execute until your turn. Id suggest you just have the players type it out...
Gabgada is going to attack the Green Dragon with Flame Tongue Sword
Aska is preparing a Cloudkill spell and will centre it on the Shaman.
There is an auto-roll init extension but if you use that the players will be declaring after their init is known.

[Varsuuk]

I like a bit of randomness and with automation i think the reason for one roll and done (not that I profess real insight, really it's a guess) is not as necessary to keep table moving fast.

however, one aspect that stymied me a little is effects and spells that last round to round. it would not be fair to have a duration spell of 1 round which under existing rules would end when players turn came up again to possibly only stay up for instant if player is last then first.

it can be solved in one obvious way by saying it ends based on the roll initially rolled. that's fine to track manually (in theory...in practice?) but FG doesn't have that option (obviously) it has something like end or start - i forget or on players turn I think.

[Andraax]

I have some actions that are required to be declared at the top of the round (I have stop each round turned on for this pause). If they declare one of those actions then I have effects for them that can be dragged to their character (in some cases, even applying an adjustment automatically - "parry" for example gives a bonus to their AC, but they get no attack on their turn). If they are not doing one of that specific list of actions, then they can declare when it's their turn. If they want to do one of those actions, and they don't declare it, tough. :-)

[Andraax]

it can be solved in one obvious way by saying it ends based on the roll initially rolled. that's fine to track manually (in theory...in practice?) but FG doesn't have that option (obviously) it has something like end or start - i forget or on players turn I think.

In C&C, the duration ends on the same phase # (initiative #) the effect was applied. They end on the end of a round only if they were applied at the beginning before the first person was activated.

[JohnD]

If you do roll every round, combined with not sorting the CT by initiative scores, I find it works really nice in terms of the party not knowing the order of play, cutting down on possible meta gaming with planning out sequences of actions with a frankly unrealistic amount of precision over a massive six seconds. Player side, the active entity bounces around all over the place, but DM side it is all orderly.

[jdb47]

As a piggyback to that method, my DM friend mentioned having his players declare their action prior to rolling the initiative to simulate the chaotic nature of battle.

We started to wonder if there was a way to automate this in FG? Something that would allow the player to 'enter' his/her action prior to rolling for the top of round initiative.

World of Darkness does something similar to this. Everyone declares their actions before they actually happen. I've seen this done in two different ways. One way is to declare actions in order of initiative, with the fastest player declaring their actions first. However, the other way is to declare actions in reverse order. This allows the "faster" characters the chance to actually quickly assess what's going on and make little alterations to their plans. "Oh, this guy is running out of reach, so I guess I'll attack this guy instead," kind of thing. Either way, the actions actually happen in the order of initiative (regardless the order of declaration). The last option is that players can change their actions once the action phase starts ("Oh, shoot, my buddy just killed the enemy I was going to attack!"), but it imposes an extra difficulty on the new action.

With that in mind, you might want to look at the WoD ruleset: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/library/WorldOfDarkness.xcp I haven't had the chance to, myself, though I've been meaning to get into a WoD game on FG. It just may have what you're looking for, and maybe you could replicate that into whatever other system you want to run. :)

[poppy_thompson]

If it wasn't already integrated into the software or handled in an extension, I knew I could count on the community to offer up solutions.

Thanks for all helpful hints!

[poppy_thompson]

If you do roll every round, combined with not sorting the CT by initiative scores...

I don't roll every round, but I implement the non-sorting option for the CT. I get the occasional comment, 'Hey, I thought x player was up next.'