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ddavison
December 22nd, 2016, 20:08
You can read the official announcement over at Paizo here:
http://paizo.com/paizo/news/v5748eaic9v98

Work has begun on the new theme for the ruleset and it will be packaged with the Core Rulebook module for Pathfinder. Trenloe is working on the Bestiary modules, Danny Stratton is working on Rise of the Runelords and Cari Most Harper is working on Curse of the Crimson Throne.

17015

viresanimi
December 22nd, 2016, 20:19
This is great news.

While I am not a fan of the Pathfinder rules, I get why it is immensely popular and I hope this is another step forward for Smiteworks, and helps the company grow.


Vires Animi

ddavison
December 22nd, 2016, 20:19
Feel free to pop over to Paizo and share your appreciation with folks there for allowing us this opportunity.
http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5ljen?Pathfinder-Comes-to-Virtual-Tabletop#discuss

Congrats to our friends at d20Pro as well for securing the license along with us, but separately, of course.

kuthulu
December 22nd, 2016, 20:34
Excellent. I will delay getting myself a Xmas present until some of the official content appears in the store. GREAT WORK!

darrenan
December 22nd, 2016, 20:37
Trenloe is working on the Bestiary modules

What does this mean for the existing Bestiary modules? Are they going to be pulled from the forums as free downloads?

Myrddin
December 22nd, 2016, 20:51
Brilliant news! Well done Smiteworks.

Callum
December 22nd, 2016, 20:52
This is great news! I'm ready to buy Rise of the Runelords (for a third time) when it's ready. What's Danny Stratton's name on this forum? Having already converted the first two books of RotR myself, I'd be happy to lend a hand, if that would be of any help...

Nickademus
December 22nd, 2016, 20:56
Work has begun on the new theme for the ruleset and it will be packaged with the Core Rulebook module for Pathfinder. Trenloe is working on the Bestiary modules, Danny Stratton is working on Rise of the Runelords and Cari Most Harper is working on Curse of the Crimson Throne.

I hate to be 'that guy', but someone is going to have to ask as it immensely important and almost everyone that plays Pathfinder on FG will want to know.

Pathfinder has no FG ruleset. (It has a single data file that replaces the one in the 3.5E ruleset.) You're making a new theme for PF; that's nice. Is PF going to get it's own ruleset, one with the work and quality of the 5E ruleset? Now that you have a Paizo license and will have PF-related income, it would seem appropriate to give it the same treatment as 5E. Also, what terms of the license can you tell us and what will the future hold for the PF community? Will all the content be encrypted and locked or is Paizo more loose with their regulations since they offer the entire core line on their PRD? As darennan asked, will any currently free content made by the community be removed and disallowed? Module creators like myself will need to know what the next step is. Will the current process for sharing PFS-approved content (like the Rise of the Runelords sanctioned sections) be shut down?

While this is good news, I personally feel it is a little too late for Paizo to finally be allowing this. Nevertheless, this raises many questions as the situation is very different from the one with WotC and 5E.

Blackfoot
December 22nd, 2016, 21:00
Hopefully, all this will really mean is that 'ready to use' content will be able to be sold. Since most (all) of the existing material is part of the SRD... it doesn't seem like it can be shut down... but.. maybe I don't understand the rules for this kinda stuff.

Nickademus
December 22nd, 2016, 21:09
Hopefully, all this will really mean is that 'ready to use' content will be able to be sold. Since most (all) of the existing material is part of the SRD... it doesn't seem like it can be shut down... but.. maybe I don't understand the rules for this kinda stuff.

It is highly likely that if SW is selling something like the PF Core Rulebook that either (a) the ruleset will have to gain automation that interacts with the module to give it value over the free ones that already exist or (b) the Terms of using FG will change so that people cannot share modules that mimic an FG Store product (well, I think they technically are already that way but they'll now apply to the PF material).

Moon Wizard
December 22nd, 2016, 22:16
Nickademus,

The PFRPG ruleset works as expected, and all of the functionality is just baked into 3.5E, since they share so many common rules. Since the Pathfinder official theme will be part of the Core rulebook bundle, this will not require any ruleset changes.

We are planning to focus the majority of our effort on getting the Pathfinder content onto FG, including all the wonderful art and stories that Paizo has provided over the years. We have no plans to force removal of OGL community content currently being distributed.

As for any changes to the current process for PFS content sharing, I believe that the Paizo will need to make a ruling about that, since it is something they allowed (not us).

Regards,
JPG

Nickademus
December 22nd, 2016, 22:22
This does raise two questions. What will the purchasable Bestiaries have then that the the free ones do not. And will the free PF basic rules still be provided with FG even though you are selling a Core Rulebook? Since the ruleset will not be getting upgraded to have the 5E automation, what will the Core Rulebook really have to offer (other than the new theme)?

turelus
December 22nd, 2016, 22:26
Posted over on the Paizo forums and shared my love on Twitter earlier but wanted to come here and post as well.

I'm really excited for this and a massive thank you everyone who made it happen.

Raised
December 22nd, 2016, 22:29
Super excited about this - Even with all the free resources from the volunteer community, I still often don't have the time to format Stat Blocks for parsers, rip images, etc.

I'd gladly pay $10-15 a month to get the AP volume with pre-stated/imaged/tokened Monsters and Loot. I've dabbled with the 5e Modules that have been released and am hoping for something of similar high quality for PF.

Appreciate the comment from the Dev that you're going down the road of giving us a reason to pay for added value rather than just paywalling something that has been previously free.

ddavison
December 22nd, 2016, 22:34
We are still working on it. We have to try to add as much as we can to make it stand out over the free modules that are available, but ultimately you will have a choice of a free or a paid option. There are some things that a free OGL version can't include, such as images and possibly nicely laid out reference manual material with those images embedded. OGL Bestiaries don't have monster images or tokens, for instance. The PHB will more than likely come with tokens and portraits and a built in reference manual with images. It is up to you if you think that is something you want to buy or not. Adventures are something that are not really possible as OGL modules. None of the images, maps, story or room contents was available previously.

Overall, my main hope is to provide an easy and convenient way for people to get high quality modules and allow people to show support for the companies and people they want to support. That is one of the reasons why we specifically chose to work with Trenloe on the bestiary modules since he put so much work and effort in the free community modules. If you want to run as you have in the past, that is completely fine as well. People can continue to build and share OGL stuff as long as they want.

I forgot to comment on the encryption question. Yes, these will be encrypted like all other modules. It's pretty much a requirement for anything nowadays.

Bidmaron
December 22nd, 2016, 22:35
Nickademus,

The PFRPG ruleset works as expected, and all of the functionality is just baked into 3.5E, since they share so many common rules. Since the Pathfinder official theme will be part of the Core rulebook bundle, this will not require any ruleset changes.

We are planning to focus the majority of our effort on getting the Pathfinder content onto FG, including all the wonderful art and stories that Paizo has provided over the years. We have no plans to force removal of OGL community content currently being distributed.

As for any changes to the current process for PFS content sharing, I believe that the Paizo will need to make a ruling about that, since it is something they allowed (not us).

Regards,
JPG
MW, I must respectfully disagree. You cannot drag feats, races, and classes like you can with 5e. I'm not upset about it, but it is not true that PF has the same level of support as a ruleset that 5e has. Perhaps I misunderstood, though.

Nickademus
December 22nd, 2016, 22:44
Thanks Doug and John for the explanations.


MW, I must respectfully disagree. You cannot drag feats, races, and classes like you can with 5e. I'm not upset about it, but it is not true that PF has the same level of support as a ruleset that 5e has. Perhaps I misunderstood, though.
I think you did misunderstand. He was saying that the 3.5E ruleset has all the functionality of the Pathfinder rules and thus a new ruleset isn't needed. No mention of the 5E ruleset and an obvious statement that PF won't be getting the automation of the 5E ruleset. I had always hoped that if Smiteworks got a Paizo license that they could justify the cost of rewriting the ruleset to be on par with 5E, but I'm not really surprised that it's not going to happen. Unity is more important.

Moon Wizard
December 22nd, 2016, 22:46
Bidmaron,

I was just responding to Nickademus that there is not an inherent issue with the way the PFRPG ruleset is structured currently, not commenting on the levels of features relative to 5E. While we will be looking at adding some basic capabilities to support simple drag and drop of specific records (feats, races, classes), we are not currently looking at adding all the character building capabilities of 5E. Building out a character building system in Pathfinder which spans 10+ years of content (not even counting third party material) is a huge project we don't currently have the resources for. Also, Pathfinder has some great support from PCGen and Hero Lab for generating and getting PCs into Fantasy Grounds already.

Regards,
JPG

damned
December 22nd, 2016, 23:05
Well done to Smiteworks and Paizo and all the people that are making this happen!

gqwebb
December 22nd, 2016, 23:51
Yeah Smite works! Go team! Thanks trenlo I want this under the Christmas tree ;)

http://paizo.com/image/content/Blog/ChristmasGoblin.jpg

Bidmaron
December 23rd, 2016, 00:40
Bidmaron,

I was just responding to Nickademus that there is not an inherent issue with the way the PFRPG ruleset is structured currently, not commenting on the levels of features relative to 5E. While we will be looking at adding some basic capabilities to support simple drag and drop of specific records (feats, races, classes), we are not currently looking at adding all the character building capabilities of 5E. Building out a character building system in Pathfinder which spans 10+ years of content (not even counting third party material) is a huge project we don't currently have the resources for. Also, Pathfinder has some great support from PCGen and Hero Lab for generating and getting PCs into Fantasy Grounds already.

Regards,
JPG

Thanks for clarifying, MW. As I said, I wasn't upset, and I also acknowledged I might not have understood. I have (essentially) no complaints on FG. I love this company and program, and your personal contributions are nothing short of monumental.

I take it for granted that, with this license, as time goes forward, ya'll will add more and more capability to the PF ruleset. I think the character dragging is a little overboard. Hero Lab does a fairly thorough job of that, and FG has so much better things to spend their time on that other tools just simply cannot effectively do.

Sorry for my misunderstanding.

DMReckless
December 23rd, 2016, 00:54
This is great news! I am about 60% done with my own conversion of the Curse of the Crimson Throne Hardcover, so I will probably finish that on my own, but I've wanted something like this for so long, I KNOW I'll be picking up some of the other products.

Old Man Trouble
December 23rd, 2016, 01:49
This is fantastic news. I mostly run Pathfinder APs and the time requirements to get the material into FG means it's difficult for me to do any sort of customization. Maybe I'm just slow. 8)

I'm hopeful that the purchasable content includes usable effects for spells, special abilities, feats, etc. The task of fully entering a high level spell casting dragon with multiple feats and abilities is a daunting one. The time saving on that one aspect alone would be well worth the cost of the purchase.

Zhern
December 23rd, 2016, 02:41
This is fantastic news. The Paizo APs are some of the higher quality canned adventures out there. Even though I don't run Pathfinder for my group anymore, I'd still snatch up the APs to use during our 5E games so I don't have to worry about creating all the tokens, maps, etc. I'm still a loyal Paizo subscriber for APs and some other stuff that I often adapt for 5E. This just makes it so much easier for me!

Well done, Doug and the SmiteWorks team!

ddavison
December 23rd, 2016, 02:46
This is fantastic news. The Paizo APs are some of the higher quality canned adventures out there. Even though I don't run Pathfinder for my group anymore, I'd still snatch up the APs to use during our 5E games so I don't have to worry about creating all the tokens, maps, etc. I'm still a loyal Paizo subscriber for APs and some other stuff that I often adapt for 5E. This just makes it so much easier for me!

Well done, Doug and the SmiteWorks team!

Just be cautious. The content will most likely be locked down to the PFRPG ruleset and wouldn't be something you could port over to 5E.

Bidmaron
December 23rd, 2016, 02:59
I am sure I will purchase it, but I have to say I am getting a little frustrated that their isn't some kind of discount system. I have paid for Rise of the Runelords:
1. Original 3.5 rules from Paizo (PDF included by subscription)
2. Pathfinder conversion
3. Hero Lab data sets
4. Audio CDs of RotRL
5. (soon I hope) RealmWorks
6. (soon I hope) Fantasy Grounds

Just grousing. If there were to be a discount, it should be Paizo doing it in recognition that a user owns the material they purchased through Paizo.

Trenloe
December 23rd, 2016, 03:00
Just be cautious. The content will most likely be locked down to the PFRPG ruleset and wouldn't be something you could port over to 5E.
Although there are some things you can do to allow modules to be opened in another ruleset: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?34623-Playing-Storm-King-s-Thunder-Using-Fantasy-Grounds-and-Pathfinder&p=296302&viewfull=1#post296302 Handy for story, maps, tokens, etc., but ruleset specific data probably won't be accessible/usable.

Gwaihir Scout
December 23rd, 2016, 03:08
Great news.

FSHSchmo
December 23rd, 2016, 04:20
Congrats Smiteworks! While I have only played one game of PF I am excited to see Fantasy Grounds grow... and that theme! Love the theme!

JohnD
December 23rd, 2016, 04:23
This won't be something I personally make direct use out of, but it's nice to see Fantasy Grounds leading the way again, and I'm happy for the people who will have their gaming enhanced by this agreement.

damned
December 23rd, 2016, 04:26
I am sure I will purchase it, but I have to say I am getting a little frustrated that their isn't some kind of discount system. I have paid for Rise of the Runelords:
1. Original 3.5 rules from Paizo (PDF included by subscription)
2. Pathfinder conversion
3. Hero Lab data sets
4. Audio CDs of RotRL
5. (soon I hope) RealmWorks
6. (soon I hope) Fantasy Grounds

Just grousing. If there were to be a discount, it should be Paizo doing it in recognition that a user owns the material they purchased through Paizo.

I dont think is a challenge thats going to be easily solved...
I dont think there is the will for anyone to want to give up revenue.
Its easier going forward to work on these things - potentially having bundles for new products and stuff but more likely it means that when the next AP (or other product comes out) you have to choose which one you want it on most... I have doubles (and occasionally triples) of a chunk of things but more often now Im only buying an electronic version of stuff...

Bidmaron
December 23rd, 2016, 04:43
Right. I don't expect a solution. But, as we always said in the Navy, "A happy sailor's a bitching sailor."

Zhern
December 23rd, 2016, 05:09
Although there are some things you can do to allow modules to be opened in another ruleset: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?34623-Playing-Storm-King-s-Thunder-Using-Fantasy-Grounds-and-Pathfinder&p=296302&viewfull=1#post296302 Handy for story, maps, tokens, etc., but ruleset specific data probably won't be accessible/usable.

Yeah, I'm only planning on using the story, maps, etc. I'm not planning on trying to port it over. All I really need is the meat of the APs, not the mechanics. I've also already converted quite a bit of the Pathfinder Bestiary content to 5e (at least the content I was interested in, anyway) and will have that to draw from, and can easily convert the new monsters that come with the APs. More than anything, this saves me from having to worry prepping the story, tokens, etc., which can be a big time sink.

Szabtom
December 23rd, 2016, 07:59
I am not a Pathfinder player but this is great news!

Myrdin Potter
December 23rd, 2016, 08:44
There are a few that add in the FG mod for no additional charge (5e AL adventures) but most charge for hardcover and some for PDF even if you have the HC and the people who convert it over to FG format need to be paid. If you use multiple VTT then there is a charge per VTT.

This news is good because it shows that Smiteworks has clout and can open up these markets.

turelus
December 23rd, 2016, 09:28
As someone who hasn't really used purchased modules from FG before (for my shame) couple of questions.

As I have already written most of the content for CotCT up, will I be able to buy the official one when ready and just have it open up like any regular module, adding in the extra maps etc. to my already written up campaign? I really want to get high quality versions of the 10' square maps.

Also are the item in these editable/copyable so can I say take "Goblin" from a AP module and drag drop to create a new version of it I can edit myself? As I know as written the CotCT hardcover (and what I assume will be transferred to FG2) has a number of statblock errors.

turelus
December 23rd, 2016, 10:36
Another post.

Not sure who makes the choices about what content becomes modules but a really good one to try and get on FG2 might be Emerald Spire. It's a dungeon crawler but the maps would look stunning on FG2.

Callum
December 23rd, 2016, 11:02
I forgot to comment on the encryption question. Yes, these will be encrypted like all other modules. It's pretty much a requirement for anything nowadays.

Thanks for the info, Doug. I have no problem with the data being encrypted - as you say, that's a requirement. What I'd like to know is, does this mean I won't be able to modify the content myself? For example, if I wanted to replace a map in a module with another map that I've made myself (or found from another source - there are some really great fan-made maps for Rise of the Runelords available), would that be possible? As another example, if I wanted to change the goblin statblock so that all the Thistletop goblins have the correct number of hp (they're wrong in the published book), would I be able to do that?

damned
December 23rd, 2016, 11:09
Thanks for the info, Doug. I have no problem with the data being encrypted - as you say, that's a requirement. What I'd like to know is, does this mean I won't be able to modify the content myself? For example, if I wanted to replace a map in a module with another map that I've made myself (or found from another source - there are some really great fan-made maps for Rise of the Runelords available), would that be possible? As another example, if I wanted to change the goblin statblock so that all the Thistletop goblins have the correct number of hp (they're wrong in the published book), would I be able to do that?

Errr kinda but not really.
You can put your own map in but you will need to redo the pin placement and token placement. You cant access the module to swap out the file...
And no... not in one fell swoop. If there is an official published source that agrees that the wrong stats are used Im sure that they could be included in but if they werent you would have to add the little green fellas to the encounter and their tokens to the map...
You will be able to continue using your own content etc you wont have to buy the official content but if you do its mostly locked down.

timdog88
December 23rd, 2016, 14:58
One thing I don't think I've seen addressed; will this mean that the forthcoming Starfinder material will be available on fantasy grounds? I'm a little daunted at getting into pathfinder now, but a new system could draw me in.

ddavison
December 23rd, 2016, 15:26
What I'd like to know is, does this mean I won't be able to modify the content myself? For example, if I wanted to replace a map in a module with another map that I've made myself (or found from another source - there are some really great fan-made maps for Rise of the Runelords available), would that be possible? As another example, if I wanted to change the goblin statblock so that all the Thistletop goblins have the correct number of hp (they're wrong in the published book), would I be able to do that?

To answer this question and the one right before it from turelus, yes you will be able to unlock and edit a goblin statblock. You can also send us an error report and we can correct the stat block and republish if we don't already catch it as part of the conversion process. Another option, yet again, is to use the campaign preferences to change how NPC hit points are calculated when added to the CT. I always like the random roll. That way you end up with some weak goblins and some strong ones. I like that from a roleplaying perspective more than anything else.

Damned covered map switches pretty well, so I won't go into more detail than necessary -- other than to say that he is pretty spot on.

Regarding Starfinder, I am not 100% certain but I am probably 98% certain that we will have Starfinder support from the launch date.

turelus
December 23rd, 2016, 15:29
Thanks for the answers! I know at current Paizo haven't really addressed the printing errors in the CotCT book, I am not sure if they will do a second print or some kind of official errata but it's nice to know I can fiddle with things if needed.

Excited to hear about the good chances for Starfinder as I'm interested in jumping into that at launch as a player.

Myrdin Potter
December 23rd, 2016, 15:49
For 5e, you can make copies of different elements and change encounters and add maps if you want to. There is potential issue that if the published module gets changed, and you accept the changes (revert changes) you may lose some of what you did to the files you edited. Any map you add, you need to drag and drop the pins and such, but that goes pretty quickly.

It saves a ton of time to just buy modules compared to entering them, and the internal tool that they use is more functional than the public version of it (the extra function can be used via xml and different parsers) so they tend to be nice as very experienced people do the conversion.

ddavison
December 23rd, 2016, 17:33
I think one area that sets us apart from the competition is our ability to work with community developers to get out good quality modules and in a timely manner. With 5E, we have every single product for that edition available for sale. For Savage Worlds, we have over 100 products available. Call of Cthulhu has a bunch as well. Our feature set is different than the competition at this stage, but I don't see anyone else being able to deliver at the same rate.

Callum
December 23rd, 2016, 17:48
To answer this question and the one right before it from turelus, yes you will be able to unlock and edit a goblin statblock. You can also send us an error report and we can correct the stat block and republish if we don't already catch it as part of the conversion process.
That's great - thanks, Doug!

Full Bleed
December 23rd, 2016, 21:00
Regarding Starfinder, I am not 100% certain but I am probably 98% certain that we will have Starfinder support from the launch date.
I was getting ready to bump my "Starfinder (http://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?33616)" thread where I was advocating that SW use it to get the PF license... so I'm glad to see that Starfinder support is likely. Having it in FG makes it significantly more likely that I will try it out.

Not sure that this initial PF support/functionality will be at the level I'd like to have to justify re-purchasing most PF material... but I see what SW is up against given the depth of the property and expect that better support and features will grow over time making it a more attractive option... especially to new adopters.

Great to see this happening!

LindseyFan
December 25th, 2016, 05:25
How do I arrange direct deposit to Smite Works? It's ridiculous the amount of high quality stuff you guys and the community put out.

drvolk
December 26th, 2016, 10:22
Nickademus,

The PFRPG ruleset works as expected, and all of the functionality is just baked into 3.5E, since they share so many common rules. Since the Pathfinder official theme will be part of the Core rulebook bundle, this will not require any ruleset changes.

We are planning to focus the majority of our effort on getting the Pathfinder content onto FG, including all the wonderful art and stories that Paizo has provided over the years. We have no plans to force removal of OGL community content currently being distributed.

As for any changes to the current process for PFS content sharing, I believe that the Paizo will need to make a ruling about that, since it is something they allowed (not us).

Regards,
JPG

I understand that some PFRPG functionality were implemented into the 3.5E ruleset for lesser maintenance effort for these both rulesets. But in the matter of the "ruleset layer" functionality for which it was implemented for in my opinion it would be more consequent to get rid of the PFRPG funtionalty from 3.5E ruleset and implement it into its child PFRPG ruleset instead.

It's a more cosmetic thing but if you plan to extend the PFRPG ruleset now a little bit, maybe you could think about that :)

Talyn
December 26th, 2016, 12:07
What I'd like to see for PFS is simply a dedicated line to record your character # like the 5E sheet has a dedicated DDAL line. I realize that's tricky as the 3.5/PF sheet is... busy... to say the least.

damned
December 26th, 2016, 12:32
What I'd like to see for PFS is simply a dedicated line to record your character # like the 5E sheet has a dedicated DDAL line. I realize that's tricky as the 3.5/PF sheet is... busy... to say the least.

That at least is an easy one.
Reduce height of Notes -> Appearance by 40px and place it there.

Talen
December 27th, 2016, 14:54
[QUOTE=ddavison;309036]I think one area that sets us apart from the competition is our ability to work with community/QUOTE]

Its ben awhile since ive played a pf game, but this has rekindled my interest. Is there a rough eta on when we might begin to see products?

Bidmaron
December 27th, 2016, 15:26
I think this is a sure sign that Paizo has permanently given up on Pathfinder online.

You would think that after a company watched wotc fall on their sword on their own online abortion that other rpg companies would have learned their lesson.

Now that I think about it, Paizo mostly did. They let GoblinWorks kill themselves with very little commitment on Paizo's part. I do feel bad for the kickstarter backers though. Paizo probably lost a lot of loyal fans because of that. I would be in that camp except that after watching wotc's abortion, there was no way you were sucking me into backing an rpg online.

ddavison
December 27th, 2016, 15:52
[QUOTE=ddavison;309036]I think one area that sets us apart from the competition is our ability to work with community/QUOTE]

Its ben awhile since ive played a pf game, but this has rekindled my interest. Is there a rough eta on when we might begin to see products?

We are hoping to have products begin rolling out in January and then regularly from there. We have several developers spun up on those modules, while keeping most of our internal team devoted towards working on Unity. Since we haven't been through a full review process yet, we don't yet know what that process will look like and how much back and forth there will be.

The first round of products is looking like it will be the following (at least what we have targeted):
- Pathfinder Core Rules and Theme
- Bestiary 1 through 5 (with tokens and images)
- Adventure Paths (Rise of the Runelords, Skull & Shackles, Curse of the Crimson Throne, Kingmaker)

For APs, we will be looking to release adventure 1 from each series and then subsequent adventures in following months. Eventually, we will expand to cover more reference material and APs.

Zhern
December 27th, 2016, 17:40
[QUOTE=Talen;309882]

We are hoping to have products begin rolling out in January and then regularly from there. We have several developers spun up on those modules, while keeping most of our internal team devoted towards working on Unity. Since we haven't been through a full review process yet, we don't yet know what that process will look like and how much back and forth there will be.

The first round of products is looking like it will be the following (at least what we have targeted):
- Pathfinder Core Rules and Theme
- Bestiary 1 through 5 (with tokens and images)
- Adventure Paths (Rise of the Runelords, Skull & Shackles, Curse of the Crimson Throne, Kingmaker)

For APs, we will be looking to release adventure 1 from each series and then subsequent adventures in following months. Eventually, we will expand to cover more reference material and APs.

Those (Rise of the Runelords, Skull & Shackles, Curse of the Crimson Throne, Kingmaker) are four of the best APs! Toss in Carrion Crown and Mummy's Mask and that will be tons of fantastic Pathfinder content for FG users to churn through.

turelus
December 27th, 2016, 18:13
For APs, we will be looking to release adventure 1 from each series and then subsequent adventures in following months. Eventually, we will expand to cover more reference material and APs.

10 says my group finishes each CotCT book as it's released on FG2 so I never get to use them. :p

Fantastic line up of books though, you can expect all my money in your account once those bestiaries hit. I spent a large sum of boxing day making tokens for the monsters in those books.

Nickademus
December 27th, 2016, 18:25
Will you be creating in-game support for Kingmaker? The current hex map functionality is horrible and there is a lot more to castle and nation building than FG can natively do currently.

ddavison
December 27th, 2016, 19:26
Will you be creating in-game support for Kingmaker? The current hex map functionality is horrible and there is a lot more to castle and nation building than FG can natively do currently.

We were just discussing that. I should probably create a thread for each where people could discuss requested features for each AP. We don't want to make any promises of new features and functions by way of an extension, but if we know what it needs, we can probably evaluate better.

Nickademus
December 27th, 2016, 19:36
We were just discussing that. I should probably create a thread for each where people could discuss requested features for each AP. We don't want to make any promises of new features and functions by way of an extension, but if we know what it needs, we can probably evaluate better.

That is a really good idea. I doubt some of those APs will be simple to fully implement (and I'd hate to see them only partially implemented). What is the likelihood of extensions being packaged with Store products? I guess you already have that with the 5e theme, so I imagine it's possible...

ddavison
December 27th, 2016, 19:38
That is a really good idea. I doubt some of those APs will be simple to fully implement (and I'd hate to see them only partially implemented). What is the likelihood of extensions being packaged with Store products? I guess you already have that with the 5e theme, so I imagine it's possible...

It is technically possible. It just impacts the development time and creates a new possible break point and area that has to be maintained and tested for all future roll-outs. It also limits the people we can have work on them because we have some people who are good at producing content but not at producing extensions.

Nickademus
December 27th, 2016, 20:07
It is technically possible. It just impacts the development time and creates a new possible break point and area that has to be maintained and tested for all future roll-outs. It also limits the people we can have work on them because we have some people who are good at producing content but not at producing extensions.

True, but you have an entire community to pull from. Bring in some people good at extensions for a project or two.

LordEntrails
December 27th, 2016, 22:39
True, but you have an entire community to pull from. Bring in some people good at extensions for a project or two.
Still not trivial. The more people involved, the more administrative and management overhead, the less efficient the project.

Trashkicker
December 28th, 2016, 22:14
This news is great! Keep up the greatness!

lostsanityreturned
January 3rd, 2017, 15:00
Any news on when these may release for sale? :)

Talyn
January 3rd, 2017, 16:25
Should start releasing this month.

Trenloe
January 3rd, 2017, 17:06
Any news on when these may release for sale? :)
A lot is going to rely on how the review/release process operates. Some info here: http://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?35675-Paizo-and-SmiteWorks-sign-an-agreement-for-official-Pathfinder-support!&p=309895&viewfull=1#post309895

AstaSyneri
January 15th, 2017, 10:09
Those (Rise of the Runelords, Skull & Shackles, Curse of the Crimson Throne, Kingmaker) are four of the best APs! Toss in Carrion Crown and Mummy's Mask and that will be tons of fantastic Pathfinder content for FG users to churn through.

Add Wrath of the Righteous to that. ;-)

lostsanityreturned
January 15th, 2017, 20:18
Add Wrath of the Righteous to that. ;-)

That leans heavily on both mythic adventures and ultimate campaign so i expect it to be a fair way out.

Personally as a gm my favourite was the iron gods path. The setting may have turned people away but it was well written for the most part and probably one of the more cohesive paths. Reign of winter is also right up there, but a tad railroady and very difficult to run in any other fashion (in a relative sense) but that said epic directed adventure is sometimes what someone wishes for.

Eru the One
January 15th, 2017, 21:04
Add Wrath of the Righteous to that. ;-)

Personally, I didn't have fun GMing WotR, after the first part, it wasn't challenging to the PCs without doing way more work than it should be for an AP. I'd vote for all the other APs before converting this one IMO.

AstaSyneri
January 15th, 2017, 23:21
That leans heavily on both mythic adventures and ultimate campaign so i expect it to be a fair way out.


I wouldn't count on it being that far away. I don't see how Ultimate Campaign would need to be converted - all you need there is some downtime and mass combat rules. You can do the bookkeeping without any online forms easily.

Mythic Adventures I don't know, but it might be converted along with the AP and the first module doesn't need it until the end anyway.

I'd say it might be coming sooner than you think!


Personally, I didn't have fun GMing WotR, after the first part, it wasn't challenging to the PCs without doing way more work than it should be for an AP.

Sorry to hear that. What kind of work are you referring to? Having the extra rules to read? The rather complex characters and monsters?

darrenan
January 15th, 2017, 23:33
I think he's referring to the fact that the Mythic rules as-written are horribly imbalanced. The WotR AP does not adequately challenge characters once they start gaining mythic ranks. I ran it nearly to completion (group was level 19 when we quit) and we really needed to focus on the story elements because the encounters as written became a joke.

The big thing that the mythic rules break is the action economy. Other than dual initiative there aren't the same mechanics on the monster side to balance that out so you need to pad out encounters with additional mooks just to give the players something to do, or increase the HP of the bad guys by a factor of 2 or 3. Many of the encounters in the 4th-6th books were over in one round, even with HP maxed.

lostsanityreturned
January 16th, 2017, 00:07
Agreeing with the sentiment directed at the Mythic rules, any group that slightly optimises will break the game so fast and require so much custom tampering it isn't funny. Heck without even trying.
There is quite a bit that needs to be added to the system if SW plan on taking a high quality approach, and telling a GM "do it the old fashioned way" is perhaps not the best selling point ;)

I am putting faith in SW that they will treat these adventures with the same care as they do their 5e adventures.

AstaSyneri
January 16th, 2017, 05:57
I don't see what Smiteworks could do but faithfully "transcribe" the APs. They can hardly go and change the adventure to "balance" things. :/

Eru the One
January 16th, 2017, 12:01
I think he's referring to the fact that the Mythic rules as-written are horribly imbalanced. The WotR AP does not adequately challenge characters once they start gaining mythic ranks. I ran it nearly to completion (group was level 19 when we quit) and we really needed to focus on the story elements because the encounters as written became a joke.

The big thing that the mythic rules break is the action economy. Other than dual initiative there aren't the same mechanics on the monster side to balance that out so you need to pad out encounters with additional mooks just to give the players something to do, or increase the HP of the bad guys by a factor of 2 or 3. Many of the encounters in the 4th-6th books were over in one round, even with HP maxed.


Agreeing with the sentiment directed at the Mythic rules, any group that slightly optimises will break the game so fast and require so much custom tampering it isn't funny. Heck without even trying.
There is quite a bit that needs to be added to the system if SW plan on taking a high quality approach, and telling a GM "do it the old fashioned way" is perhaps not the best selling point ;)

I am putting faith in SW that they will treat these adventures with the same care as they do their 5e adventures.

Yeah, as others said, Mythic rules are great for players (in making them feel "epic"), but modifying the encounters to make them last more than a round became more work on my end, which I feel defeats the the whole idea behind a printed AP :). After several encounters, I just had everyone make attacks, cast spells, etc. all at once including the monsters and just described the combat through a narrative instead of actually running combat, which seemed to make most people happy.


I don't see what Smiteworks could do but faithfully "transcribe" the APs. They can hardly go and change the adventure to "balance" things. :/

They should leave them alone when they convert, I'm just letting other potential GMs know what to expect if they run the campaign.

Grey Mage
January 21st, 2017, 19:36
We are three weeks into January... any word on when Pathfinder products will be hitting the store?

Nickademus
January 21st, 2017, 20:21
Way too soon.

Bidmaron
January 21st, 2017, 22:11
Oh, my aching wallet....

Wookiee420
January 21st, 2017, 22:26
oh, my aching wallet....

for real!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Talyn
January 22nd, 2017, 00:03
To borrow from the old 3DRealms saying: "When it's done!" :p

My PayPal is ready to rock the second it hits the store though.

lostsanityreturned
January 23rd, 2017, 06:08
To borrow from the old 3DRealms saying: "When it's done!" :p

My PayPal is ready to rock the second it hits the store though.

Don't tempt them...
Waiting 12 years, having the program scrapped multiple times, the company and IP sold off and then given to multiple contractors before releasing as a horrible mess that is worse than the original program.

No more Duke Nukem Forevers... never again :P

Jokes aside, I too am waiting with baited wallet :)

ddavison
January 23rd, 2017, 13:55
We are moving ahead nicely on several threads at once. We still have some work to do, but we are getting closer to being done with the first batch. We have not submitted anything to Paizo for review yet, and I don't know how long that will take.

Ken L
January 23rd, 2017, 16:28
-oops ignore-

Nylanfs
January 23rd, 2017, 16:54
-oops ignore-

Nope.

Ken L
January 23rd, 2017, 18:39
Nope.

Yea, I posted a reply to the WotR comment only to realize it was page 7 or some odd.

<insert comment about mythic tiers here>

swbuza
January 23rd, 2017, 19:48
I totally subscribed for an ultimate account for one reason and one reason only: the 12/22 announcement of the licensing agreement with Paizo. In fact, I knew almost nothing about FantasyGrounds prior to that announcement; and after I saw it on Paizo's site, I came looking here (and elsewhere) and settled on Fantasy Grounds as my VTT platform. I'll be running Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition for my (now) adult children, who live away. I was planning to do it all on Roll20.net, but will be doing it on Fantasy Grounds instead. We have rolled up characters, I have them in FantasyGrounds. We've tested them out. All we are waiting on is the Rise of the Runelords to be released.

Please tell me that this is one of your threads... :)

Zhern
January 23rd, 2017, 19:56
@swbuza, I think you're going to be in luck given that Doug mentioned this in a previous post:



The first round of products is looking like it will be the following (at least what we have targeted):
- Pathfinder Core Rules and Theme
- Bestiary 1 through 5 (with tokens and images)
- Adventure Paths (Rise of the Runelords, Skull & Shackles, Curse of the Crimson Throne, Kingmaker)

For APs, we will be looking to release adventure 1 from each series and then subsequent adventures in following months. Eventually, we will expand to cover more reference material and APs.

ddavison
January 23rd, 2017, 20:26
It is. We are going to break it up so we can get it out sooner for a number of different APs. Adventure modules 1 and 2 should be rolling out first for several APs, followed by the next ones in the series as quickly as we can get them converted, reviewed and approved. We expect that should take us roughly 1 month per new adventure in each series that we start.

Talyn
January 23rd, 2017, 21:12
We are going to break it up so we can get it out sooner for a number of different APs. Adventure modules 1 and 2 should be rolling out first for several APs, followed by the next ones in the series as quickly as we can get them converted, reviewed and approved.

I'm happy about that, not only for expedience of getting smaller packages converted and reviewed but also for memory constraints. Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition is one massive book and that would be a ton of NPCs, encounters, images, etc. taking up memory.

swbuza
January 24th, 2017, 02:58
Fantastic! Thank you.

lostsanityreturned
January 24th, 2017, 05:14
Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition is one massive book and that would be a ton of NPCs, encounters, images, etc. taking up memory.

Images are the only thing that really makes for a large campaign file, and even then in it's complete form I doubt it will be larger than 100MB.

Ratupper
January 26th, 2017, 21:07
January is ticking away any thoughts on a release date? :confused:

Trenloe
January 26th, 2017, 21:18
January is ticking away any thoughts on a release date? :confused:
See post #80. There is a Paizo review process and we have no idea how long that will take.

ddavison
January 26th, 2017, 21:54
I still have a bit more work to do on the Pathfinder Core Rules Pack. It is nearly complete.

Reference Manual - 100%
Races - 100%
Classes - 100%
Feats - 100%
Spells - 100%

To Do (drag and drop capable - they are already in the reference manual):
Special Abilities
Equipment
Magic Items

In addition, we have a little more left on the ruleset. It is not going to have the same level of automation in character leveling as 5E, but there are a few changes still left to finish. The current iteration has been sent to Paizo to get an early preview, along with the first few adventures for a few Adventure Paths.

Trenloe is finishing up the Bestiary 1 and then will do Bestiary 2 - 5 to match.

Ratupper
January 27th, 2017, 00:07
Outstanding gentlemen thank you for the hard work

LindseyFan
January 27th, 2017, 00:42
Thank you all for investing your time so heavily into making this. You will definitely be rewarded by us (the community) in the FG Store!

Nickademus
January 27th, 2017, 02:39
In addition, we have a little more left on the ruleset. It is not going to have the same level of automation in character leveling as 5E, but there are a few changes still left to finish.

Wait, what ruleset? We were told that Pathfinder wasn't getting a ruleset (that the 3.5E ruleset handled PF well enough as it is). Did this change?

ddavison
January 27th, 2017, 03:20
Wait, what ruleset? We were told that Pathfinder wasn't getting a ruleset (that the 3.5E ruleset handled PF well enough as it is). Did this change?

Small changes to the PFRPG ruleset. These should also apply to the 35E ruleset.

Asterionaisien
January 27th, 2017, 20:30
Small changes to the PFRPG ruleset. These should also apply to the 35E ruleset.

Those are really good news, for pathfinder and the 3.5 lovers. Now getting the complete srd for 3.5 is becoming very attractive... Just a question, will the d20 modern inherit them too?

drvolk
January 30th, 2017, 09:32
For me the PFRPG ruleset is the favoured ruleset to play "D&D" like rpg games within VTT.
The reason is that for Pathfinder nearly every content from Paizo is also avaible in a translated version for the german language (done by "Ulisses Spiele", http://www.ulisses-spiele.de/) and there is also an german PRD avaible on the internet.
Simular stuff i notized also for other languages at least for france and italian.

And because of the new deal between Smiteworks and Paizo Pathfinder even gets more in focus.

Because of that i think Smitework should think about to extent the ruleset in a way that it would be also possible to play PFRPG with non-english contents supporting all that nice Fantasy Grounds features.

Currently not "localizeable" with just changing the string resources in 3.5E/PFRPG is:

- Skilllist in Character Sheet
- Dropdownlists in Party Sheet (abilites, saves, skills)
- Names of effect buttons on default effects

- parsing of non-english content when drag&drop items to character sheet or combat tracker
- parsing of non-english content when drag&drop NPCs to the combat tracker
- parsing of non-english content when drag&drop spells to character sheet

- evaluating of effects, damagetypes etc. on rolls, when the derivated content came from non-englich text contents
- output of chat for the results of rolls from charcheet, NPC or combat tracker

- handling of different metrics (meters instead feets, kg instead pfound)
- handling of different date formats

Some of that issues could be solved by just implementing new text-resources.
For others i think there need to be some changes in the "Manager" scipts (I would recomment to outsource each text content reliable stuff into a central place, lets call it "ContenParserManager". Then it would be possible to replace just each function within the LPak extensions with new functions which can handle the localized texts).

Are there any plans by Smiteworks to bring the "localization" functionality for PFRPG to a more complete status ?

I would try to write an extension to do that stuff within the LPak project of duluz-oz, but if there is a plan to implement that in the near future by Smitework then it would be better to wait for that :)

damned
January 30th, 2017, 11:27
Some sneak peeks that were shared in discord...

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/274582899045695488/275107502503362560/unknown.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/274582899045695488/275108819745505280/unknown.png

AstaSyneri
January 30th, 2017, 11:32
Oooh, sexy. I know I will want to buy the Bestiary(-ies) if there is a functionality to apply templates to the monsters. Those templates are a real pain for me in preparation.

drvolk
January 30th, 2017, 12:01
nice, looks very promising:)

lochost
January 30th, 2017, 13:16
I can't wait to have it !! Soooooooo cool !

lostsanityreturned
January 30th, 2017, 18:38
Please consider reworking the button icons, everyone loves goblins but in this case the text isn't the clearest choice. Outside of that spectacular work, i wish i was able to use the skin with the 5e ruleset.

LindseyFan
January 30th, 2017, 20:43
I personally like the goblins! Once you figure out which button is which, you probably won't need to read them anymore. But I am betting they will have some vanilla themes available or Dulux-Oz will make one for us. :)

Galymyr
January 30th, 2017, 23:02
Can we even get an estimate on the time it takes for the Paizo review? Has any of the content been submitted to them already?

daggerfortysix
January 30th, 2017, 23:11
I cannot wait! I dig the sneak peak. Pathfinder goblin art is great!

damned
January 30th, 2017, 23:55
Can we even get an estimate on the time it takes for the Paizo review? Has any of the content been submitted to them already?

The review takes as long as it takes. Sometimes it has to go to Legals and to Design and to PR and to Playtest and then changes get made and it goes around again.
Dont hold your breath on a release date (its bad for your health!) - it will get here when it gets here and it will be good.

LordEntrails
January 31st, 2017, 00:26
Can we even get an estimate on the time it takes for the Paizo review? Has any of the content been submitted to them already?
Keep in mind, this is all new for Paizo. They have very little relevant prior experience to estimate how long it might take them to review and approve the content.

SmiteWorks can estimate how long it takes for them to convert/develop what is needed, but everything on the Paizo side is new. After the process has been done a few times, and their is some basis for an estimate, then one can start to make meaningful estimates. On this first batch, we will just have to be patient :)

swbuza
January 31st, 2017, 23:18
This is awesome! When I saw that sneak peak art, I shed a single tear. So excited!

Mr Hale
February 1st, 2017, 00:30
The anticipation is killing me.
I hope to have the money to buy it when it arrives.
Do we have any ideas as to how long, just a guesstimate?
Even if all you have is the core rules and bestiary. I am in.

ddavison
February 1st, 2017, 00:59
No ETA yet.

Several AP's are ready to submit, but we have a little bit more to do on the ruleset, I'm finishing up Core Rules (90+% done) and waiting on the final version from Trenloe for the Bestiary 1. We will submit the first batch of those as soon as those items are all complete. Initially, I threw out a January target date but we have obviously missed that. It is very close though.

daggerfortysix
February 3rd, 2017, 06:37
Keep up the good work! We all know that it will be ready when its ready....

Vhok
February 8th, 2017, 14:00
any update on ETA? I'm checking the store 3 times a day! I can't wait for this!

ddavison
February 8th, 2017, 14:08
I just sent the following items to Paizo for review:

1. Pathfinder Core Rules Pack (includes extension)
2. Rise of the Runelords 1
3. Rise of the Runelords 2
4. Kingmaker 1
5. Kingmaker 2

We have not had a review process with Paizo previously and this is new to them and to us. We will have a better idea of an ETA for future products.

Bidmaron
February 8th, 2017, 17:31
The RealmWorks site is abuzz with complaints about Paizo policy for digital content. It would appear that for their license with alone Wolf and Realm Works, Paizo is insisting that to purchase RW Paizo content, you must either own or purchase the PDF. There is an innovative tie in so purchasers on Realmworks can validate they own (or not) the corresponding PDF as they purchase RW content.

Can you address whether this will be the model for Fantasy Grounds content?

The policy is raising a &*#*storm over at lone wolf forums.

JohnD
February 8th, 2017, 18:23
The RealmWorks site is abuzz with complaints about Paizo policy for digital content. It would appear that for their license with alone Wolf and Realm Works, Paizo is insisting that to purchase RW Paizo content, you must either own or purchase the PDF. There is an innovative tie in so purchasers on Realmworks can validate they own (or not) the corresponding PDF as they purchase RW content.

Can you address whether this will be the model for Fantasy Grounds content?

The policy is raising a &*#*storm over at lone wolf forums.

Have you seen any FG official releases? There is no absolute need for a printed or pdf copy - you get everything you need within FG (not to say that an alternative version doesn't come in handy, but it isn't necessary). Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the issue?

ddavison
February 8th, 2017, 18:50
Fantasy Grounds licensed content for Pathfinder will be sold on Steam and on the Fantasy Grounds site at a fixed cost per item. As far as I can tell, the costs will be the MSRP print price. There might be an option at some point to buy from the Paizo store at a slight discount if you already own the print or PDF product there.

Nylanfs
February 8th, 2017, 19:11
The RealmWorks site is abuzz with complaints about Paizo policy for digital content. It would appear that for their license with alone Wolf and Realm Works, Paizo is insisting that to purchase RW Paizo content, you must either own or purchase the PDF. There is an innovative tie in so purchasers on Realmworks can validate they own (or not) the corresponding PDF as they purchase RW content.

Can you address whether this will be the model for Fantasy Grounds content?

The policy is raising a &*#*storm over at lone wolf forums.

Got links to their discussion?

Bidmaron
February 8th, 2017, 22:28
Try here (http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=57639)

daplunk
February 9th, 2017, 20:26
http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=57639

http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=57638

If FG isn't bound by this restriction there's going to be an obscene uproar.

swbuza
February 9th, 2017, 20:40
It may well be that there is a different pricing and revenue sharing model. Different companies may negotiate different licensing terms.

LindseyFan
February 9th, 2017, 20:51
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that these other VTT solutions aren't as fully fleshed out as an FG product. For instance, if you buy a FG PHB you have the complete text in edition to the automations. Perhaps these other solutions contain automations and stat blocks, but in order to make a "game legal" copy, you have to have the pdf for all the text with actual rules.

This is just my wild guess though.

daplunk
February 9th, 2017, 21:04
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that these other VTT solutions aren't as fully fleshed out as an FG product.

No you're on the wrong path there.

Don't think of Realm Works as a VTT. It's campaign management software. It contains all of the text from the books in a very easy to use format. Arguably in an easier to use format than FG given that the focus is solely on the world and the story not the combat, and table top management. We don't use it as a VTT though. Alot of us use it at the table as a form of virtual binder. It's incredibly easy to modify content and wind it into your world which could have been a consideration in the licensing agreements as once you own content you can continue to strip it to pieces as use what ever bits you want where ever you want.

As far as combat automation. The Realm Works content coming our will contain Hero Lab portfolios and the two tools integrate so we roll real dice but use Hero Lab to manage tracking of the combat.

IMO FG / Roll20 are the online software solutions. Realm Works with Hero Lab is the software solution for play at the table.

damned
February 9th, 2017, 21:13
Hi daplunk how long ago did RW negotiate their deal?
Possibly it was sometime ago and a little more is now known about how these deals might pan out and maybe a change is coming.

daplunk
February 9th, 2017, 21:18
That's a very good question and one I don't know the answer to. I can tell you they have been in discussions for many many years but this latest revelation seems to have come as a surprise to LWD from the 'feel' of the forum posts. The impression I get is this is something new and honestly it's something I expect to see replicated both here and in Roll20 should both offer official support. It's gone as far as there are mechanical elements setup between both LWD and Paizo with the automatic checking of PDF ownership which leads me to think Paizo have thought this out, laid the foundation and are now communicating the change.

Let's be honest... apart from the slap in the face to physical book owners its a really good thing for those that primarily play digitally which these days if both the online and @table communities. It's going to really hurt physical stores though.

lostsanityreturned
February 9th, 2017, 21:20
Can someone explain the issue here to me?
I am not getting it, it seems obvious that paizo won't be allowing people with physical copies they bought ages ago to get the digital content in realmworks. That would be insanely bad as a business decision.
Unless Realmworks has decided to become a charity and convert the modules for free.

ddavison
February 9th, 2017, 21:23
I won't comment on internal details of publisher negotiations, but I will simply state that our arrangement is as follows:

Fantasy Grounds licensed content for Pathfinder will be sold on Steam and on the Fantasy Grounds site at a fixed cost per item. As far as I can tell, the costs will be the MSRP print price. There might be an option at some point to buy from the Paizo store at a slight discount if you already own the print or PDF product there.

Talyn
February 9th, 2017, 21:24
Yeah, I own the dead tree Core Rulebook and a couple others. I have no use for buying a PDF I'll never use just so I can have permission to buy (for the same price, hey double dipping!) the FG conversion of that same book. These big companies just can't seem to get it right. Wizards refuse to make PDFs because people who will never be their customers might pirate them so let's punish the people who'd rather have a legal PDF. Now Paizo makes you pay twice. Awesome...

Trenloe
February 9th, 2017, 21:28
I won't comment on internal details of publisher negotiations, but I will simply state that our arrangement is as follows:

Fantasy Grounds licensed content for Pathfinder will be sold on Steam and on the Fantasy Grounds site at a fixed cost per item. As far as I can tell, the costs will be the MSRP print price. There might be an option at some point to buy from the Paizo store at a slight discount if you already own the print or PDF product there.
Thanks for re-stating Doug.

Whereas there is obviously concern regarding the LWP/RW agreement for those that use that platform, it's good to have the Fantasy Grounds agreement confirmed and know that it is not following the model mentions on the LWP forums.

daplunk
February 9th, 2017, 21:31
Shits about to hit the fan lol...

Trenloe
February 9th, 2017, 21:41
For those skimming this thread - all of this "$&%^ hitting the fan" talk is not to do with Fantasy Grounds agreement with Paizo - it is to do with Lone Wolf Publishing's own, very separate agreement. For further details, and more informed discussion about their products, please go to the LWP forums (links in post #119 and #120 in this thread).

Please can we keep this thread limited to discussions directly related to the agreement Smiteworks have with Paizo, which is quite different to Lone Wolf's separate agreement with Paizo. We don't want any confusion creeping in as to the Fantasy Grounds agreement (which I am seeing already). Thanks.

Toblakai
February 9th, 2017, 22:20
Yeah, I own the dead tree Core Rulebook and a couple others. I have no use for buying a PDF I'll never use just so I can have permission to buy (for the same price, hey double dipping!) the FG conversion of that same book. These big companies just can't seem to get it right. Wizards refuse to make PDFs because people who will never be their customers might pirate them so let's punish the people who'd rather have a legal PDF. Now Paizo makes you pay twice. Awesome...

It's not really paying twice, the cost of the RW package + PDF will be pretty close to the MSRP price.
So the difference between FG and RW for Dragon's Demand:

FG: 24.99 (MSRP)
RW: 27.98 if PDF is not already owned
RW: 9.99 if PDF is already owned

So for FG if you have already bought the PDF, you really are paying twice.

Bidmaron
February 9th, 2017, 23:15
Toblaki, welcome to the forums! We are a friendly lot. If you need any help getting started, these boards are a great resource. What version of FG did you buy and what ruleset are you interested in?

Galymyr
February 9th, 2017, 23:35
Fantasy Grounds licensed content for Pathfinder will be sold on Steam and on the Fantasy Grounds site at a fixed cost per item. As far as I can tell, the costs will be the MSRP print price. There might be an option at some point to buy from the Paizo store at a slight discount if you already own the print or PDF product there.

Thanks for the info ddavison. You say "as far as I can tell" which doesn't sound firm to me. Here's what I posted over on the Lone Wolf Forum. Would appreciate your thoughts.

In the same news release Paizo announced that they had granteD a license to both Fantasy Grounds and D20Pro. In the news release on DA20Pro they talked about Paizo developing the back end services to support PDF validation and synchronization between platforms. I seriously doubt Fantasy Grounds got different license terms than LWD and D20Pro.

ddavison
February 10th, 2017, 00:11
Final prices for all FG products are at the discretion of the publisher. We sell through our site and on Steam and that precludes us from being able to do any thirdparty integration that sets the price. The price can only be "X" for us.

Talyn
February 10th, 2017, 02:09
Final prices for all FG products are at the discretion of the publisher. We sell through our site and on Steam and that precludes us from being able to do any thirdparty integration that sets the price. The price can only be "X" for us.

I don't think the price of the FG version is the (potential) uproar, it's whether or not we're going to have to buy the PDFs from Paizo first before we're "allowed" to buy/use the FG content, which is what's being stated from the developers on the other product's sites.

Galymyr
February 10th, 2017, 02:23
I don't think the price of the FG version is the (potential) uproar, it's whether or not we're going to have to buy the PDFs from Paizo first before we're "allowed" to buy/use the FG content, which is what's being stated from the developers on the other product's sites.

This right here is the absolute crux of issue.

LindseyFan
February 10th, 2017, 02:24
This right here is the absolute crux of issue.
Actually I think Doug was quite clear that this isn't a current worry for this community.

Galymyr
February 10th, 2017, 02:42
Actually I think Doug was quite clear that this isn't a current worry for this community.

I disagree. He was quite clear about the cost of the fantasy grounds content not any additional cost that would be levied by Paizo mandating ownership of the .pdf.

LindseyFan
February 10th, 2017, 02:47
I disagree. He was quite clear about the cost of the fantasy grounds content not any additional cost that would be levied by Paizo mandating ownership of the .pdf.
I disagree back. :P See the rest of the moderators' statements as well. :)

damned
February 10th, 2017, 02:49
I disagree. He was quite clear about the cost of the fantasy grounds content not any additional cost that would be levied by Paizo mandating ownership of the .pdf.

Doug did say that at this time - without going into any contract or negotiation specifics - SmiteWorks sell here and on Steam and they cannot attach conditions or additional systems checks to that purchase so the price is the price and there are no additional conditions. As another posted pointed out the Realmworks pricing looks to be a little lower that MSRP so there is not as much difference as some people might be thinking.

Galymyr
February 10th, 2017, 03:08
Doug did say that at this time - without going into any contract or negotiation specifics - SmiteWorks sell here and on Steam and they cannot attach conditions or additional systems checks to that purchase so the price is the price and there are no additional conditions. As another posted pointed out the Realmworks pricing looks to be a little lower that MSRP so there is not as much difference as some people might be thinking.

The RW cost is below MSRP because you're not buying the content you're buying the effort for the data entry. In addition to the data entry effort you also must purchase the official .pdf. So are you saying that when we pay MSRP for Rise of the Runelords Aniversary Edition in the FG store that the content and the FG data entry are both included in that MSRP?

damned
February 10th, 2017, 03:12
The RW cost is below MSRP because you're not buying the content you're buying the effort for the data entry. In addition to the data entry effort you also must purchase the official .pdf. So are you saying that when we pay MSRP for Rise of the Runelords Aniversary Edition in the FG store that the content and the FG data entry are both included in that MSRP?

Thats how the 5e and Call of Cthulhu and Savage Worlds rulesets work.
The content supplied in the FG product is the same content as the physical or PDF products but in FG format and only usable in FG.

Galymyr
February 10th, 2017, 03:14
Thats how the 5e and Call of Cthulhu and Savage Worlds rulesets work.
The content supplied in the FG product is the same content as the physical or PDF products but in FG format and only usable in FG.

Wonderful! Thank you! Now, call Paizo and tell them to hurry up with the review.

ddavison
February 10th, 2017, 03:19
There will not be any requirement for a check on whether or not you own the PDF.

The unknown portion is whether or not you will get a discounted price for the FG version if you buy it directly from the Paizo website and already own the PDF.

Galymyr
February 10th, 2017, 03:29
There will not be any requirement for a check on whether or not you own the PDF.

The unknown portion is whether or not you will get a discounted price for the FG version if you buy it directly from the Paizo website and already own the PDF.

Wait, that's exactly what I said was going to happen. If I own the Paizo .pdf then I only pay for the FG data entry effort, that's the discount you mentioned. If I don't own the .pdf then I pay full MSRP, and from what I read elsewhere is the print edition MSRP not the .pdf MSRP. Which makes sense because it would need to include both costs.

JohnD
February 10th, 2017, 04:38
Personally, I'm not seeing the reason for the gnashing of teeth here.

RW is not FG. Whatever contractual agreement that was negotiated between them and Paizo only relates to RW.

Continuing discussion *here* of RW/Paizo pricing is IMO not just in the wrong area, it's on the completely wrong website and can/will only lead to confusion about FG's soon to be offered Paizo products for FG.

It is interesting to know the results of the RW/Paizo contract regarding pricing structure because it informs a potential consumer about the on-line strategy that Paizo is obviously working under. But that really only means something to FG if their contract is exactly the same, which is extremely unlikely (but not impossible).

Doug has always in my experience been a straight shooter with the FG community in as much as he can without telling us things that we have no business in knowing about his business.

This is really no different than people complaining about the pricing structure of the 5e content and blaming FG for it: WotC sets constraints for 5e and Paizo sets constraints on their IP. If Paizo said you could only buy their content if you paid in cans of lima beans and had to be wearing clown shoes and a WWII German helmet, well those would be the conditions of sale. FG Pathfinder players, if they don't like the pricing presented to them on Steam and in the FG store, can choose to continue on like they have to now, and not worry about the clown shoes and finding a helmet.

Likely Paizo sees a difference in how their content can be accessed, used and potentially disseminated out into the world on RW and how the same questions are answered on FG.

Vhok
February 10th, 2017, 04:57
I don't care what it costs buying cruse of the crimson throne soon as it comes out. my group already made characters, can't wait to start!!!

swbuza
February 10th, 2017, 05:43
Kinda the same, but Rise of the Runelords and I'm two sessions into it, hoping for a released version that'll save me a bunch of time before too many more sessions.

AstaSyneri
February 10th, 2017, 06:36
We'll just have to wait and see. IMHO it would be smart for Paizo to set their FG prizes along the lines of their PDFs - players would still want many of the PDFs - they are just better to read and much prettier in their layouts ;-).

But then it would me much smarter for us to take this discussion to the Paizo forums, wouldn't it? ;-) We might give them something to think about.

damned
February 10th, 2017, 07:28
We'll just have to wait and see. IMHO it would be smart for Paizo to set their FG prizes along the lines of their PDFs - players would still want many of the PDFs - they are just better to read and much prettier in their layouts ;-).

But then it would me much smarter for us to take this discussion to the Paizo forums, wouldn't it? ;-) We might give them something to think about.

Ive seen a number of publishers have open and frank discussions about PDF pricing. In every case they made considerably less money by pricing them lower. They did sell more when priced lower but not even close to enough to cover the gap. There are only so many people that might buy your product and there are a bunch of people who want it but will never pay for it.

GenesisX
February 10th, 2017, 08:40
What I personally would like to see - and not only for Pathfinder Content - would be a bundle option for a PDF / Module. Even when I own a hardcopy of a module, I frequently make use of PDFs while running Fantasy Grounds. Paying a resonable extra amount for both (20% more? 30% more) would be a dream come true for me.

Bidmaron
February 10th, 2017, 12:15
Genesis that is exactly what the subscription at Paizo does except better. You get the hard copy at a discount and the PDF for free

GenesisX
February 10th, 2017, 12:46
Genesis that is exactly what the subscription at Paizo does except better. You get the hard copy at a discount and the PDF for free

However, I was referring to a FG module / Pdf bundle. I hope Paizo will offer those, since all their pdf carry a personal watermark.

Bidmaron
February 10th, 2017, 13:16
Sorry for misunderstanding.

Talyn
February 10th, 2017, 14:07
It is interesting to know the results of the RW/Paizo contract regarding pricing structure because it informs a potential consumer about the on-line strategy that Paizo is obviously working under. But that really only means something to FG if their contract is exactly the same, which is extremely unlikely (but not impossible).

The developers at both Lone Wolf and d20Pro (who got their Pathfinder license at the same time Fantasy Grounds did) are both saying Paizo's new license agreement "for all digital partners" is making them link the stores so a PDF Verification can take place before users can buy/use the Pathfinder content on those platforms. That's where the consumer concern and "gnashing of teeth" is coming from. Doug is saying that's not the case for us, and if so, yay for us. Maybe the Steam connection threw a wrench into Paizo's license? If we're exempt here, I'd expect a lot of anger over at d20Pro. Realm Works is more of a face-to-face gaming software so not the same thing as a Virtual TableTop but still, obviously their consumers aren't happy about it either.

Zhern
February 10th, 2017, 14:35
I would think the biggest difference is that the cost of the content through FG is the PRINT MSRP, while through RW and other digital channels it would be the PDF (or lower) price. I haven't read through every post on the threads on the RW boards or the thread on the Paizo boards but the ones I have read (I was focusing on those posts from employees of RW but haven't seen a response from a Paizo representative), that seems to be the major difference that would not require Smite Works to also be under the same constraint. Another thing that might be contributing to that is that Smite Works encrypts the content of the modules from publishers.

Then again, I could be completely wrong and just adding to the speculation.

JohnD
February 10th, 2017, 14:39
I still don't see what difference any dissatisfaction at RW or d20Pro makes here, unless the same requirements are present here too.

It may very well be that the increases in sales and product reach/penetration into the market resulting from being on Steam were enough to convince Paizo to forego the linked sales requirements for FG, or it could have been the fact that you can't dictate to Steam.

It could also be that part of the FG sale includes the price of a pdf and one is added to your directory, or you get a download code from Paizo or something.

Talyn
February 10th, 2017, 14:40
Now I'd totally be in favor of that idea! Buy the FG module and get an official PDF free? :)

JohnD
February 10th, 2017, 14:51
I doubt it would be free; the cost or some permutation of it would be baked into the price (or Paizo's portion of it at least).

I personally don't think that there's a hig deal here. Doug can't do anything about Paizo's pricing strategy.

In my online experience, everything I've tried to run has been accompanied by a pdf and/or a printed copy of the adventure in addition to the FG version or what I entered myself. It just works better that way for me. I suspect that the vast majority of people running Pathfinder here have their own printed or pdf copies of the rules and adventures.

Zhern
February 10th, 2017, 15:24
I doubt it would be free; the cost or some permutation of it would be baked into the price (or Paizo's portion of it at least).

I personally don't think that there's a hig deal here. Doug can't do anything about Paizo's pricing strategy.

In my online experience, everything I've tried to run has been accompanied by a pdf and/or a printed copy of the adventure in addition to the FG version or what I entered myself. It just works better that way for me. I suspect that the vast majority of people running Pathfinder here have their own printed or pdf copies of the rules and adventures.

I don't see any big deal either, John. It isn't going to change my purchasing habits or product choices. While I prefer having a physical book I do want a PDF to go with it because I may not always be able to lug a stack of books everywhere or have a chance to go find a book on a shelf when I'm running a session. It is often easier to open the PDF and carry on. That is the thing I really like about Paizo's subscription and Frog God Games - you get the PDF with the purchase of the physical copy. WotC could learn from that.

hawkwind
February 11th, 2017, 00:37
I don't see any big deal either, John. It isn't going to change my purchasing habits or product choices. While I prefer having a physical book I do want a PDF to go with it because I may not always be able to lug a stack of books everywhere or have a chance to go find a book on a shelf when I'm running a session. It is often easier to open the PDF and carry on. That is the thing I really like about Paizo's subscription and Frog God Games - you get the PDF with the purchase of the physical copy. WotC could learn from that.

Plus one

Talyn
February 11th, 2017, 00:48
I suspect that the vast majority of people running Pathfinder here have their own printed or pdf copies of the rules and adventures.

That's because they've had to up til now. And each GM had to make his own copy of his module to run in FG, yadda yadda.

So far I've only been a player for Pathfinder -- PFS specifically, in person and once here on FG. So other than my dead tree Core Rulebook, I don't need anything else. But if I wanted to try my hand at GMing Pathfinder here on FG, only to be told first I have to go buy the PDFs from Paizo then come back here and buy the same content for FG... that's a disincentive in my book.

daplunk
February 12th, 2017, 00:58
There will not be any requirement for a check on whether or not you own the PDF.

The unknown portion is whether or not you will get a discounted price for the FG version if you buy it directly from the Paizo website and already own the PDF.

Will the full cost from Steam or the FG Store include a copy of the PDF then?

Looking at all the options across RW, D20 Pro and FG it looks like FG will get the short end of the stick? Correct me if I'm wrong here but so far:

The expensive option in RW gets you the RW Content + ownership of the PDF.
The expensive option in D20Pro gets you the D20Pro Content + ownership of the PDF.
The Fantasy Grounds option gets you the Fantasy Grounds Content.

Is this correct?

I don't actually own any of the Paizo material currently but was looking into it so the actual complaints getting around don't really apply to me. Instead I'm in a situation where I can pick one of the providers above based on the best offering and quite frankly, the ability to own the PDF alongside the content is appealing.

damned
February 12th, 2017, 01:11
No additional information has been released and probably wont be until the stuff is available for sale.

"short end" depends on what you are looking for from your product.
Fantasy Grounds is easily the best tool for playing online Pathfinder. It has so many more smarts about how it handles combat in particular.
If thats not what you are using it for your value assessment will differ.
You're coming from RW so you most likely have different uses for your content.

Id personally like PDFs with products as they are generally easier to read than any other digital interpretation (although the new options in the FG reference manual close this gap considerably) but my digital purchases today are based on what Im running in FG and nothing else.

Zhern
February 12th, 2017, 02:55
All of my play is online anymore, so having the content in FG is fine. I do end up buying the physical products that come with a PDF as often as possible and subscribe to most of the Pathfinder subs for that reason. I don't really look at it as the short end of the stick given the amount of functionality FG has with it. Incidentally, I do own Realmworks but haven't had time to use it - I've conned my wife into entering all the Frog God stuff into it, though. She's currently working on Bard's Gate.

damned
February 12th, 2017, 04:17
All of my play is online anymore, so having the content in FG is fine. I do end up buying the physical products that come with a PDF as often as possible and subscribe to most of the Pathfinder subs for that reason. I don't really look at it as the short end of the stick given the amount of functionality FG has with it. Incidentally, I do own Realmworks but haven't had time to use it - I've conned my wife into entering all the Frog God stuff into it, though. She's currently working on Bard's Gate.

I have RW too but dont use it.
Lucky wife...

daplunk
February 12th, 2017, 11:51
I do own Realmworks but haven't had time to use it - I've conned my wife into entering all the Frog God stuff into it, though. She's currently working on Bard's Gate.

Oh to be so lucky :) Sounds like Frog God Games is going to be getting quite a bit of content in officially.

Zhern
February 12th, 2017, 19:14
Oh to be so lucky :) Sounds like Frog God Games is going to be getting quite a bit of content in officially.

She's not doing it officially, but depending how it turns out and what the submission guidelines are like, maybe we will send them over to the content market but only after I ping Bill and make sure the Frogs are on board with it and all, seeing as it is their IP and I'm not looking to profit off of that and all.

daplunk
February 12th, 2017, 21:27
She's not doing it officially, but depending how it turns out and what the submission guidelines are like, maybe we will send them over to the content market but only after I ping Bill and make sure the Frogs are on board with it and all, seeing as it is their IP and I'm not looking to profit off of that and all.

From what I'm hearing the Frogs are already on-board and working with LWD.

Zhern
February 12th, 2017, 21:38
Great!

GenesisX
February 17th, 2017, 16:48
Any news on the approval front? I am dying to see the Pathfinder content - but I understand that such processes take time.

ddavison
February 17th, 2017, 16:58
Several of these have been approved. We (SmiteWorks and Paizo) would like to release with the Bestiary 1 as well, but we are trying to track down an issue where big bads (i.e. spellcasters) take up to 50 secs to drop onto the Combat Tracker. Everything still works, but FG looks like it is non-responsive when the copy happens.

GenesisX
February 17th, 2017, 17:15
Several of these have been approved. We (SmiteWorks and Paizo) would like to release with the Bestiary 1 as well, but we are trying to track down an issue where big bads (i.e. spellcasters) take up to 50 secs to drop onto the Combat Tracker. Everything still works, but FG looks like it is non-responsive when the copy happens.


Thank you for the quick reply! I hope you get to track them down soon - I am especially eager to see the Kingmaker Campaign later on, which I already partially converted for FFG on my own. This will be a big timesaver for me.

Old Man Trouble
February 17th, 2017, 18:02
Several of these have been approved. We (SmiteWorks and Paizo) would like to release with the Bestiary 1 as well, but we are trying to track down an issue where big bads (i.e. spellcasters) take up to 50 secs to drop onto the Combat Tracker. Everything still works, but FG looks like it is non-responsive when the copy happens.

That sounds normal to me. Loading the combat tracker is frequently a "ok everyone go grab a drink" moment. This is especially true for npcs with large numbers of effects. If it helps, the problem is significantly worse when players are connected as opposed to preloading the tracker with no one connected.

Nickademus
February 17th, 2017, 19:08
but we are trying to track down an issue where big bads (i.e. spellcasters) take up to 50 secs to drop onto the Combat Tracker. Everything still works, but FG looks like it is non-responsive when the copy happens.

Moonwizard and I corresponded on this before. We had tracked down the issue but no fix was planned. I've noticed the test version has had some changed made to address this (finally). I'm glad to see that. Good luck with the coding. I'll be happy to not have to use dummy npc for spellcasting anymore.

Galymyr
February 17th, 2017, 23:25
Are the Bestiaries going to be free as part of the OGL? What about tokens to go along with the creatures in the Bestiaries? Will that be premium content we have to purchase the Bestiary to get (basically access the art that's not OGL) or will those be part of the virtualization of another product line like Pathfinder Pawns? Thanks!

ddavison
February 17th, 2017, 23:40
We are not going to change any of the SRD stuff that ships with FG. There are already extensive OGL libraries available for these, but we will be selling an official bestiary that has the images and tokens linked, as well as having more detail on the stats - specifically with regard to the extra abilities, spells, etc. of the creature. The pawns are nice but that might make more sense with FGU because they are meant for stand-ups.

damned
February 18th, 2017, 01:24
Are the Bestiaries going to be free as part of the OGL? What about tokens to go along with the creatures in the Bestiaries? Will that be premium content we have to purchase the Bestiary to get (basically access the art that's not OGL) or will those be part of the virtualization of another product line like Pathfinder Pawns? Thanks!

All the new content will be at MSRP.

LindseyFan
February 18th, 2017, 01:41
MSRP? You mean "Miranda's Sure Ready to Pay"?

Vhok
February 18th, 2017, 02:14
is curse of the crimson throne going to be up before the end of march? my group had planned on starting it this month but with the delay we are doing a short interlude adventure but everyone is greatly looking forward to starting.

Bidmaron
February 18th, 2017, 03:08
We are not going to change any of the SRD stuff that ships with FG. There are already extensive OGL libraries available for these, but we will be selling an official bestiary that has the images and tokens linked, as well as having more detail on the stats - specifically with regard to the extra abilities, spells, etc. of the creature. The pawns are nice but that might make more sense with FGU because they are meant for stand-ups.
davison, I would prefer to have those before FGU. I hate top-down tokens and prefer pogs or frontal tokens. I doubt I am the only one with this view?

LindseyFan
February 18th, 2017, 03:22
davison, I would prefer to have those before FGU. I hate top-down tokens and prefer pogs or frontal tokens. I doubt I am the only one with this view?
You aren't the only one by a long-shot.

Trenloe
February 18th, 2017, 03:27
davison, I would prefer to have those before FGU. I hate top-down tokens and prefer pogs or frontal tokens. I doubt I am the only one with this view?
I think you mistake Doug's words or aren't familiar with what the Paizo pawns are. Pazio pawns are 3D standees: http://paizo.com/pathfinder/miniatures/pawns Hence Doug's referral to making more sense in FGU, which might end up looking something like this: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?31629-Token-Discussions-what-style-do-you-prefer&p=270659&viewfull=1#post270659 (Nothing official - just trying to portray what the Paizo pawns are more aligned to).

As Doug says, there will be tokens with the official Bestiary module, which are based off the art in the Paizo bestiary.

daplunk
February 18th, 2017, 04:16
All the new content will be at MSRP.

Will that cost include a copy of the pdf?

Nickademus
February 18th, 2017, 04:29
Will that cost include a copy of the pdf?

Smiteworks doesn't sell the pdf's. You'll have to get those from Paizo.

Bidmaron
February 18th, 2017, 04:32
Trenloe, I own all the pawns from prison, but I doubt many know what they are. I find that the scans make for great frontal tokens. Yes they are designed like 2d miniatures, but the images could be frontals.

LindseyFan
February 18th, 2017, 05:38
I like those possible but unofficial mock-ups. It solves the problem that comes with 3-D models, which is making a lot of content. Anyone who understands alpha layers could make tokens like that for the masses!

Trenloe
February 18th, 2017, 06:08
Trenloe, I own all the pawns from prison, but I doubt many know what they are. I find that the scans make for great frontal tokens. Yes they are designed like 2d miniatures, but the images could be frontals.
I hope you didn't get the pawns from prison! You know we frown on nefarious sources on these forums. ;-)

Your questionable sources aside, compare the artwork of the "Bestiary Box 1" pawns with the artwork from the Bestiary 1 PDF. You'll find the Paizo pawn products are made from the same artwork contained in the PDF product.

The tokens in the Bestiary 1 FG module are made from the PDF artwork. From your comments so far, I don't think you'll be too disappointed in them.

ddavison
February 18th, 2017, 08:41
As Martin says, it is basically full body portraits for the pawns versus cropped versions from the same artwork, but better designed to fit into squares.

Galymyr
February 18th, 2017, 13:04
Smiteworks doesn't sell the pdf's. You'll have to get those from Paizo.

All of Paizo's digital content partners have the same license requirements but it seems the FG implementation will be slightly different because of Steam. With all the other partners there is a back end library service that sychs your official .pdf purchase across all the platforms and the Paizo store. The benefit here is that you don't have to repurchase the official content on each virtual platform. Here's my understanding of how this is all going to work.

Realm Works example: if you buy an adventure path .pdf on Paizo.com you can then buy the same Adventure Path in Realm Works but only have to pay the developers cost. If you don't already own the .pdf then you can purchase it directly from the Realm Works store, along with the Real Works content, and it will be available on Paizo.com and sync across all the other platforms.

Fantasy Grounds example: we had a long conversation about this earlier and I think I have it figured it. FG has some restrictions due to Steam that do not allow them to check for external content before allowing a purchase. The workaround it seems is charging the consumer full MSRP of the print product. Basically FG buys the .pdf from Paizo at MSRP on your behalf and gives it to you in the form of FG content (note that you do not get the .pdf itself in this instance). Their costs/profit are then covered by the cost increase from .pdf MSRP to the print MSRP. ddavison did mention that they are working on how to implement a discount via the FG store if you own the official .pdf. I assume this would credit you the MSRP of the .pdf and you would only then have to pay the difference between that and the print MSRP. So this is the the same license model as everyone else, they just have to go about it a bit differently because of Steam.

Please feel free to smite me if I got anything wrong or misrepresented something. This is simply my honest view of the facts as they have been presented thus far.

Galymyr
February 18th, 2017, 15:22
I think you mistake Doug's words or aren't familiar with what the Paizo pawns are. Pazio pawns are 3D standees: http://paizo.com/pathfinder/miniatures/pawns Hence Doug's referral to making more sense in FGU, which might end up looking something like this: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?31629-Token-Discussions-what-style-do-you-prefer&p=270659&viewfull=1#post270659 (Nothing official - just trying to portray what the Paizo pawns are more aligned to).

As Doug says, there will be tokens with the official Bestiary module, which are based off the art in the Paizo bestiary.

What sweet wonder is this FGU! 3D virtual tabletop gaming? Is this seriously in the development pipeline? Oh be still my heart! Sorry for the amazement over what may be old news for you all, I didn't show up to the VTT world until I heard about the Pathfinder license.

Bidmaron
February 18th, 2017, 15:46
OOPS! That should have been paizo not prison! (danged auto-correct)

Trenloe
February 18th, 2017, 15:48
OOPS! That should have been paizo! (danged auto-correct)
LOL! I thought that was the case, but wasn't going to miss that opportunity. :D

Bidmaron
February 18th, 2017, 15:56
I probably should be in prison, or the nerd farm (at least that's what my wife thinks).

ddavison
February 18th, 2017, 15:57
I probably should be in prison, or the nerd farm (at least that's what my wife thinks).

Darn, I was hoping to start a cult following for FG in the prison system. Now who can I have lead the initiative?

lostsanityreturned
February 18th, 2017, 16:05
What sweet wonder is this FGU! 3D virtual tabletop gaming? Is this seriously in the development pipeline? Oh be still my heart! Sorry for the amazement over what may be old news for you all, I didn't show up to the VTT world until I heard about the Pathfinder license.

Don't get too excited. It could be years before we see it yet (and has already been years as is)
It will be great when it does come though.

LindseyFan
February 18th, 2017, 17:54
I had a big sigh of relief when I saw the 2.5 mockup. A lot of pure 3d VTTs seem to die out. Something like what I saw could be used by someone with average graphic design skills, but still hold promise for premium 3d in the future. I am all about the text, but minis are minis! :)

Bidmaron
February 18th, 2017, 18:02
I am with you Lindsey. As someone once observed here recently, the best cooperative role playing games use theater of the mind. I fear 3D will not match that mental picture. Part of me says if that is what u.you want, just play on of the quest-oriented mmorpgs.

lostsanityreturned
February 18th, 2017, 18:51
I am with you Lindsey. As someone once observed here recently, the best cooperative role playing games use theater of the mind. I fear 3D will not match that mental picture. Part of me says if that is what u.you want, just play on of the quest-oriented mmorpgs.

Better to direct someone to something like divinity original sin 2 in that case. There really aren't any MMORPGs that have a meaningful amount of roleplay built into them mechanically.

Sure you can roleplay almost anywhere and in anything. But they just aren't suited to a GM running a narrative in 90% of the time nor will they give a remotely similar experience.

Divinity original sin 2 is perhaps the closest a computer game has gotten to tabletop freedom that I have experienced so far.
And given that it will have robust module creation tools and a GM mode, most apt of a comparison.

JohnD
February 18th, 2017, 22:13
3d seems like a great idea until you spend 40+ hours working on a map for a game with your players and they spend a total of 35 minutes of game time on it and will never be back.

Nylanfs
February 18th, 2017, 22:29
But you can use it elseware or tweak and use it again.

damned
February 18th, 2017, 23:01
3d seems like a great idea until you spend 40+ hours working on a map for a game with your players and they spend a total of 35 minutes of game time on it and will never be back.

The preview that Carl did on Table Top Connect showed a very rapid dungeon deployment - but of course that would not stop people from spending much more time on it - nor players bypassing it!

AstaSyneri
February 18th, 2017, 23:24
3d seems like a great idea until you spend 40+ hours working on a map for a game with your players and they spend a total of 35 minutes of game time on it and will never be back.

OR you could just focus on features that a) enable you to play with friends/players all over the world and b) help you reduce the overhead on bookkeeping and calculations so you can concentrate on what roLEplaying really is about ;-).

Oh right, that's what FG has been doing all along! :D

LindseyFan
February 18th, 2017, 23:55
OR you could just focus on features that a) enable you to play with friends/players all over the world and b) help you reduce the overhead on bookkeeping and calculations so you can concentrate on what roLEplaying really is about ;-).

Oh right, that's what FG has been doing all along! :D

AstraSyneri.. For The Win!

daplunk
February 19th, 2017, 02:55
All of Paizo's digital content partners have the same license requirements but it seems the FG implementation will be slightly different because of Steam. With all the other partners there is a back end library service that sychs your official .pdf purchase across all the platforms and the Paizo store. The benefit here is that you don't have to repurchase the official content on each virtual platform. Here's my understanding of how this is all going to work.

Realm Works example: if you buy an adventure path .pdf on Paizo.com you can then buy the same Adventure Path in Realm Works but only have to pay the developers cost. If you don't already own the .pdf then you can purchase it directly from the Realm Works store, along with the Real Works content, and it will be available on Paizo.com and sync across all the other platforms.

Fantasy Grounds example: we had a long conversation about this earlier and I think I have it figured it. FG has some restrictions due to Steam that do not allow them to check for external content before allowing a purchase. The workaround it seems is charging the consumer full MSRP of the print product. Basically FG buys the .pdf from Paizo at MSRP on your behalf and gives it to you in the form of FG content (note that you do not get the .pdf itself in this instance). Their costs/profit are then covered by the cost increase from .pdf MSRP to the print MSRP. ddavison did mention that they are working on how to implement a discount via the FG store if you own the official .pdf. I assume this would credit you the MSRP of the .pdf and you would only then have to pay the difference between that and the print MSRP. So this is the the same license model as everyone else, they just have to go about it a bit differently because of Steam.

If this is indeed true then it would appear that the worst way to purchase Pathfinder material will be via Fantasy Grounds on Steam. You are paying for the copy of the pdf but not getting an actual copy where all other sources you get the pdf and the digital content. If they do end up implementing the same system on the FG store as everyone else and the Steam version is different I certainly wouldn't want to be in charge of customer satisfaction results.

The only way I see them doing this (due to the Steam restrictions) is all purchases on Steam come with a way to claim a copy of the pdf also.

Talyn
February 19th, 2017, 03:00
What he's getting at is that Steam throws a wrench into Paizo's digital licensing, so the end result is that Fantasy Grounds is "grandfathered in" and will not require a verification of the PDF owned from your Paizo account in order to purchase/use Pathfinder DLC here on Fantasy Grounds (regardless if you get it from Steam or the FG Store). It sounds like Paizo will set the prices, just like WotC sets the prices of the 5E DLC.

LordEntrails
February 19th, 2017, 03:03
Why don't we just wait and see? Hasn't all this speculation run its course?

Zhern
February 19th, 2017, 03:05
Of course not, Lord Entrails - this is the internet. Speculation never runs its course!

daplunk
February 19th, 2017, 03:20
To put some context on it... think about it this way.

Tomorrow you buy the content from FG and you are happy.

The next week a new company releases a must have digital tool that would supplement your experience in FG or replace it completely. They adhere to the same licensing policy that everyone else is apparently adhering to. You go to buy the content and you are faced with two prices. The price is cheaper should you own the PDF. The price is more expensive if you don't.

Now you are sitting here wondering why your full cost FG purchase didn't give you personally the rights (ownership of the pdf) to purchase the cheaper option. You have already paid for it after all. All the other users who have come from other digitals tools are talking about how good the Paizo policy is because they only had to buy the pdf once and now get a discount on everything else.

damned
February 19th, 2017, 03:37
To put some context on it... think about it this way.

Tomorrow you buy the content from FG and you are happy.

The next week a new company releases a must have digital tool that would supplement your experience in FG or replace it completely. They adhere to the same licensing policy that everyone else is apparently adhering to. You go to buy the content and you are faced with two prices. The price is cheaper should you own the PDF. The price is more expensive if you don't.

Now you are sitting here wondering why your full cost FG purchase didn't give you personally the rights (ownership of the pdf) to purchase the cheaper option. You have already paid for it after all.

Wasnt this your original post?


If FG isn't bound by this restriction there's going to be an obscene uproar.

They are different products for different markets.
Fantasy Grounds comes with the best and most featured pathfinder ruleset available - for nix.
All things have their merits and their short comings.

daplunk
February 19th, 2017, 03:51
Correct and there is absolutely a camp of people who are not impressed with Paizo's new policy. They are the people who have purchased physical books over pdf's and have started using digital tools to supplement their experience. It's not a happy camp.

The more we read between the lines by looking at all the various offerings that are about to hit the market though it would appear there could be another unhappy camp ready to form?

I'm just speculating here but based on the detail provided by the dev's here and elsewhere; it would appear that you will end up paying the cost of the pdf in your purchase and not get a copy of it. Which is fine if all you use now and all you plan to use in the future is Fantasy Grounds. But ownership of the pdf will get you discounts should you need to purchase the same content in other market places and therefore I feel it's a question that should be answered.

Honestly I could care less about Pathfinder... but Starfinder is coming and a sensible man would likely put money on Paizo setting up a framework now for a model that will be replicated in the future.

damned
February 19th, 2017, 05:16
There will be plenty of people that wont pay for Pathfinder books on FG just like they wont pay for 5e books on FG - but the 5e experience suggests that there will be plenty of people happy to pay for someone else having done the work. At no stage has Smiteworks suggested any pricing other than MSRP so I doubt there will be too many surprises.

There is a big chunk of OGL stuff that will still be available and the tools to implement stuff direct into FG are improving all the time. I dont see where anyone misses out so I dont see where or why people will need to be unhappy.

People can only spend their money once and for some its a matter of watching every cent whilst for others who have a disposable income it will be more likely a convenience spend and then there is everything in between.

Myrdin Potter
February 19th, 2017, 05:25
I am really puzzled why there is so much wondering about the license when Doug is the guy that consistently cracked open licenses and markets that others have not. A FG adventure is always as automated and as good an experience as possible. Why not wait and see and if you prefer the other prices/model offered, look at the other choices? Otherwise there is nothing really to discuss.

JohnD
February 19th, 2017, 07:37
Axe grinding and doom saying.

lostsanityreturned
February 19th, 2017, 09:20
Put very simply, we know exactly what we will be getting from fantasy grounds and what the maximum price and benefits will entail... there is no questioning it at the moment they have been very clear. It is the same model they used for 5e.

People who DO expect some sort of compensation for having a pathfinder physical book are out of luck (spoken from the perspective of someone who owns every hardcover paizo have released to do with pathfinder and a tiny number of pdfs)
The books weren't made with redemption methods in place and it is VERY hard to implement something of the like in retrospect. Paizo needs to do right by their own business and to do this they need to charge money for content.

The complaints on the Realmworks forum are unreasonable and realistically made by a minority.

On a happy note, I shall be buying the complete package in the same way I have for 5e, and already know two friends who will do so as well.

ColinBuckler
February 19th, 2017, 10:29
The licensing agreement and the distribution of Pazio/PDF's will be what it will be. One way of distributing PDF content would be to perform something as a part of the FG update as this is common regardless of where the item was purchased from (Steam or FG).

For example the FG upgrade process could do one of two things:

(1) Download a PDF with signed/coded to the FG folder structure.
(2) Provide a code which is a one time use on the Paizo store to grant you the PDF for free or discounted.

So its all possible from a software perspective - its just licensing and the process that will limit what is possible.

I do not see anyway of offering a redemption for purchased physical books - moving forward physical books could have a redeemable voucher but I can not see Paizo doing that.

Galymyr
February 19th, 2017, 12:13
If this is indeed true then it would appear that the worst way to purchase Pathfinder material will be via Fantasy Grounds on Steam. You are paying for the copy of the pdf but not getting an actual copy where all other sources you get the pdf and the digital content. If they do end up implementing the same system on the FG store as everyone else and the Steam version is different I certainly wouldn't want to be in charge of customer satisfaction results.

The only way I see them doing this (due to the Steam restrictions) is all purchases on Steam come with a way to claim a copy of the pdf also.

I would say your first sentence about Steam is correct. However, don't panic just yet because the developers are still looking at ways to make this a non issue for their customers. ddavison mentioned they were looking into a discount if you purchase from the FG store (and own the official .pdf on Paizo). I also thought I read that the content may be able to be purchased on the Paizo web store, or maybe i'm confusing Pathfinder with 5E. Either way buying FG content from either the FG store or Paizo store would eliminate the Steam problem and link your FG account with your Paizo account giving you credit for all your purchases elsewhere.

The important thing for us to do as customers is explain just how important this is to us. Everyone has their own unique gaming situation. My situation will have me using both Fantasy Grounds (VTT) and Realm Works (Campaign Management) for online play, and Realm Works for my in person play. Since I'm taking advantage of multiple platforms the ability to link all of my .pdf's is very important to me and if FG cannot offer that then I'll move to a competitor. Even though FG may be the best, I'm not going to buy content from them that doesn't include access to the .pdf on all other platforms when that is exactly what their competition is able to offer me. All the .pdf's for an adventure path cost $108, that is not an insignificant amount of money considering that I wouldn't be paying that on any other virtual platform.

For those of you who exclusively use Fantasy Grounds for all your Pathfinder play, you could care less about this. But please don't dismiss the concerns of gamers who will be impacted by this and want to encourage the devs to continue to work toward a solution so we can enjoy this product the same as you.

Galymyr
February 19th, 2017, 13:08
Put very simply, we know exactly what we will be getting from fantasy grounds and what the maximum price and benefits will entail... there is no questioning it at the moment they have been very clear. It is the same model they used for 5e.

People who DO expect some sort of compensation for having a pathfinder physical book are out of luck (spoken from the perspective of someone who owns every hardcover paizo have released to do with pathfinder and a tiny number of pdfs)
The books weren't made with redemption methods in place and it is VERY hard to implement something of the like in retrospect. Paizo needs to do right by their own business and to do this they need to charge money for content.

The complaints on the Realmworks forum are unreasonable and realistically made by a minority.

On a happy note, I shall be buying the complete package in the same way I have for 5e, and already know two friends who will do so as well.

I was one of the one's who was voicing my, as you aptly put it unreasonable displeasure with this almost instantly. I think it was more sticker shock than anything since I own every hardcover. I'm over it now and ready to spend more money :D

Bidmaron
February 19th, 2017, 13:21
Galymyr, what I believe you mean is that you will turn elsewhere for your VTT because the price will be cheaper, since you will already obviously have the PDF through Realmworks (or if you already own it).

Damned, this is the point, and your notion that people will pay whatever they charge because of the superiority of FG is not true the higher that price is, especially if there is a competitor selling similar content for less (because there are some who must watch their coin so closely that the difference matters, regardless of how superior FG is to the other VTTs. The continued existence of those other VTTs kind of proves the point).

I think SW is getting ripped off here. RW (which is the only other thing I watch because I use it, like Galmyr says) gets to sell at a reduced price relative to MSRP for those who already own the PDFs (yes, the hard copy folks get screwed, but that is a weakness of the medium and selling mechanisms, because Paizo could, if it wanted, offer reduced price to anyone who had bought the hard copy from them). Or, if they do pay MSRP, they get the PDF in addition to the content. There are countless folks on here who actively reference the PDFs during their games, even with FG running (though I suspect that will diminish once professional content is available), so PDFs are not totally worthless to many active FG users.

As to the "just wait and see what happens" mindset, well, it appears we know everything there is to know about this. There is no reason to anticipate that the announced license mechanisms on either side will change from what they have both very openly declared to be their arrangements. UNLESS THEY DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT BECAUSE WE VOICE OUR OPINIONS.

And talking about 5e is kind of non sequitur because they don't have PDFs, as I understand it (I gave up on WOTC when they did the disastrous 4e - D&D built like a video game for computer usage which never materialized).

Now, at the point that SW says knock it off because we have made up our minds and have taken our users' concerns into account ... then we should stop, but until then, we need to voice our opinions.

Personally, I am at the point in life where I have the income to handle whatever comes, but that is because my job sucks and I spend a great deal of my time away from the office working rather than doing my hobby. At some point, I am going to get fed up with that and permanently retire. At that point, I will care very much about the mechanism SW uses for its products.

damned
February 19th, 2017, 14:18
Damned, this is the point, and your notion that people will pay whatever they charge because of the superiority of FG is not true the higher that price is, especially if there is a competitor selling similar content for less (because there are some who must watch their coin so closely that the difference matters, regardless of how superior FG is to the other VTTs. The continued existence of those other VTTs kind of proves the point).

Thats a rather serious misquote of anything Ive said.

Bidmaron
February 19th, 2017, 14:55
Sorry I misunderstood, damned. No flame wars. I apologize for my misunderstanding.

swbuza
February 19th, 2017, 17:11
Honestly I could care less about Pathfinder... but Starfinder is coming...

Does the licensing agreement with Paizo also cover the Starfinder product line?

ddavison
February 19th, 2017, 17:37
We also have a license for Starfinder. I don't have an ETA for when we will be ready for release since it will need its own ruleset.

swbuza
February 19th, 2017, 17:46
Thanks, Doug. I was hoping you'd reply. Given that it's not due to roll until August, I wouldn't expect an ETA yet. But, I am hopeful that Paizo would have a lot of interest in rolling out VTT versions of that product set at the get-go.

Galymyr
February 21st, 2017, 21:33
Several of these have been approved. We (SmiteWorks and Paizo) would like to release with the Bestiary 1 as well, but we are trying to track down an issue where big bads (i.e. spellcasters) take up to 50 secs to drop onto the Combat Tracker. Everything still works, but FG looks like it is non-responsive when the copy happens.

Any luck tracking down the issue?

Nickademus
February 21st, 2017, 21:36
Look at the update list the last week for the new test version. You'll see the progress in steps.

Galymyr
February 21st, 2017, 22:25
Look at the update list the last week for the new test version. You'll see the progress in steps.

I'm new here and have no idea what you just said. Can you point me in the right direction? :)

Nickademus
February 21st, 2017, 22:41
I'm new here and have no idea what you just said. Can you point me in the right direction? :)

But of course. This thread (http://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?36552-Test-Release-v3-2-4&p=321733&viewfull=1#post321733) has all the updates for the new version now being tested. Starting at the post I linked, you can see the speed improvements for adding NPCs to the Combat Tracker. That is the issue that was mentioned by Mr. Davison.

Galymyr
February 21st, 2017, 23:23
But of course. This thread (http://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?36552-Test-Release-v3-2-4&p=321733&viewfull=1#post321733) has all the updates for the new version now being tested. Starting at the post I linked, you can see the speed improvements for adding NPCs to the Combat Tracker. That is the issue that was mentioned by Mr. Davison.

Thank you! Does this apply to the Pathfinder issue since it was listed under CoreRPG? They seem to list every rule set for each particular fix.

damned
February 21st, 2017, 23:26
Thank you! Does this apply to the Pathfinder issue since it was listed under CoreRPG? They seem to list every rule set for each particular fix.

When stuff is denoted as [CoreRPG] it applies to those rulesets layered off that which includes 5e, 4e, 3.5e, PF, Numenera, Call of Cthulhu, Castles & Crusades, MoreCore and more...
If its labeled as anything else it only applies to that ruleset.

Vhok
February 22nd, 2017, 05:49
still no ETA on this stuff?

damned
February 22nd, 2017, 05:50
still no ETA on this stuff?

Without meaning to be condescending... if you didnt see an ETA there isnt an ETA.
Everything will happen when its ready to happen.

Vhok
February 22nd, 2017, 06:52
well they said January and my group had a game set up with characters made now its almost march and not a single ap is in the store. we had plans set around this, I don't feel that its asking too much for a current ETA.

damned
February 22nd, 2017, 07:07
well they said January and my group had a game set up with characters made now its almost march and not a single ap is in the store. we had plans set around this, I don't feel that its asking too much for a current ETA.

They also said the following...


No ETA yet.

Several AP's are ready to submit, but we have a little bit more to do on the ruleset, I'm finishing up Core Rules (90+% done) and waiting on the final version from Trenloe for the Bestiary 1. We will submit the first batch of those as soon as those items are all complete. Initially, I threw out a January target date but we have obviously missed that. It is very close though.


Several of these have been approved. We (SmiteWorks and Paizo) would like to release with the Bestiary 1 as well, but we are trying to track down an issue where big bads (i.e. spellcasters) take up to 50 secs to drop onto the Combat Tracker. Everything still works, but FG looks like it is non-responsive when the copy happens.

I dont think they are in a position to give a firm ETA just yet and giving another ETA that gets missed wont make anyone any happier...

Anyway they are only my views :) You might get lucky...

Nickademus
February 22nd, 2017, 11:12
What I want to know is, why isn't We Be Goblins! in the first batch of official products!

ddavison
February 22nd, 2017, 15:01
The first batch of products is mostly all approved and ready to go, but we haven't been given a firm ETA yet for release. We will post again once we know for certain.

GenesisX
February 24th, 2017, 20:18
Oh you tease. That promotional e-mail.....

ddavison
February 24th, 2017, 20:20
For those who haven't signed up for the Newsletter yet... I think this link will work.

http://us13.campaign-archive2.com/?u=70b64c3aab6b463beab9328c9&id=2160ab4be1

NotRussellCrowe
February 24th, 2017, 20:53
A good time to be a Pathfinder player. Makes me want to learn to play just to use all these new toys!

Old Man Trouble
February 24th, 2017, 21:21
This may have been answered already, but which version of Rise of the Runelords is being released? Original AP, or Anniversary Edition? I'm not too familiar with the original AP, but in the Anniversary Edition, the related towns (Sandpoint, etc) are covered in appendixes. Are those being included?

I mostly ask because I'd like to start entering Sandpoint into FG if it's not included, but I'd rather not duplicate effort if it is. 8) I will be running RotRL for a group "Soon(tm)".

ddavison
February 24th, 2017, 21:24
It is the anniversary edition, but it is still being divided into 6 separate releases.

Callum
February 25th, 2017, 17:47
I'm sure they'll include the appendices. You couldn't really play part one (Burnt Offerings) without the Sandpoint material.

Zhern
February 25th, 2017, 20:13
The original AP was written for 3.5 anyway. The anniversary edition is Pathfinder. The FG modules will include everything in the anniversary edition.

Talen
February 28th, 2017, 12:36
With the pending release of the official support for Pathfinder, my understanding is that people will have the option of keeping the community resources or going with the full featured and much prettier official packages. That being said, I had a few specific questions.

1. Can players and the DM use different options during a game? For example, if I as the DM run the official package, I'm assuming the players can still create and run their pc's using community resources as long as I authorize them. I believe the Dm will still need to load the community resources to see descriptions in that case. Correct?

2. While it appears players and dms can mix and match resources, can the dm? For example, if I have the official core book but "only" the advanced races community mod, can I use both?

3. Will I be able to export pcs from hero lab with both community mods and the official mods?

Excited to see the final product, thanks!

damned
February 28th, 2017, 13:03
With the pending release of the official support for Pathfinder, my understanding is that people will have the option of keeping the community resources or going with the full featured and much prettier official packages. That being said, I had a few specific questions.

1. Can players and the DM use different options during a game? For example, if I as the DM run the official package, I'm assuming the players can still create and run their pc's using community resources as long as I authorize them. I believe the Dm will still need to load the community resources to see descriptions in that case. Correct?

2. While it appears players and dms can mix and match resources, can the dm? For example, if I have the official core book but "only" the advanced races community mod, can I use both?

3. Will I be able to export pcs from hero lab with both community mods and the official mods?

Excited to see the final product, thanks!

1. You dont even have to load them as GM - if the players try and open them you can approve them without having to open and share them to everyone.
2. Yes.
3. I dont think you can import now and have FG create the links... the link data isnt in the Hero Labs export so it cant be imported...

ddavison
February 28th, 2017, 15:38
As long as the community modules use the same data types, you should be able to mix and match these. There might be a few weird cases that crop up, but I don't expect any major issues.

Springroll
March 1st, 2017, 13:02
Kid in back of car "Are we there yet?" :)

ddavison
March 1st, 2017, 13:08
Kid in back of car "Are we there yet?" :)

Don't make me turn this car around!

Just kidding. We have some more work to do on store integration. We will do our best to work through that as quickly as possible.

Springroll
March 1st, 2017, 13:14
Don't make me turn this car around!

Just kidding. We have some more work to do on store integration. We will do our best to work through that as quickly as possible.

Sounds great! But I'd still want an Ice-Cream at the next stop...