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View Full Version : CC3+ Either I am missing something or ? No clue what "or" can be



Varsuuk
December 14th, 2016, 07:40
I'm on vacation, I started going along with Joe Sweeny's first tutorial as recommended. Sure, it is for CC3 so I was a bit confused on some layer things etc but I got it going.
Got to the point where I am to export as JPG.
I did as told, set the width to 13000 and made height a huge number 300000. That immediately said it could not do.
Tried again width to 13000 and made height a huge number 30000. That allowed it to continue but each time the app says it stops responding.

I did the 50px / 5ft version vs 32px/5ft recommended for FG because I like to slavishly follow instructions until I know what I am doing.

I only did one quick Google since I am in need to go to bed (long last day.) They seem to imply that something as little as 9800 x 7800 was a problem???
http://forum.profantasy.com/comments.php?DiscussionID=6133


I will upload the FCW (I notice that each time I went back in I had to turn on the effects checkbox in the sheets... no clue why, I saved it each time I go back in) - it has nothing "proprietary" in it.
... hmmmm IDEA...
*taps taps*
Yup... I did not this time go back into Sheets on reload. I exported jpg rect 13000x30000 and it is slowly chugging along up to 61/143 now.

SOOOOO.... myabe this CC3+ difference in sheets is putting in things already that take up memory? I dunno... seriously though this map is like 2 rooms ;)

Could someone maybe look at my FCW file to see what is wrong once I turn on the sheets. Note, when following the tutorial steps 1a-1b-1c-2-save I would go to add sheets where in video it shows no sheets but the ones he wanted me to add were already there (I edited as best I could to match the video) - so maybe some "built-in"/"defaults" is too much? Odd...right? OR maybe I did SOMETHING.

Tried this after clean reboot btw.

Onedrive link:
https://1drv.ms/f/s!AnwhQ1k_7ppfsGwPWjhd0QKbd6nZ

(I'm very inexperienced at cloud/links - couldn't upload to forum as FCW, didn't want to rename - if I should put it on diff service, let me know.)


Thanks,
Dan



PS
So... btw, CC3+ is NOT 64bit? ugh... Ihave 32gb memory...bah.

Zacchaeus
December 14th, 2016, 11:09
Firstly it doesn't save your file with sheet effects on so you do need to switch them back on in reload.

You are entering numbers for the export that are way too high. It's a long time since I watched those vids so I can't say what the advice was.

At any rate your drawing is 160' wide and 200' tall with a grid spacing of 5'. So go to Save As and select PNG Bitmap. Click on options and for the width multiply the actual width of your drawing by either 5 or 10 depending on how high quality you want. So either 800 or 1600. Same for the height so either 1000 or 2000.

Antialias is fine at 25% and make sure you check Crop image to aspect ratio and restrict image to map border then click ok. Now click save and the image should export in about 3 seconds. Now you want to take that image and load it into something like GIMP and export it from there as a jpeg with about 60% quality.

Trenloe
December 14th, 2016, 13:38
FG would never be able to handle a width of 13,000 pixels. And CC3+ would take a lot of time rendering it - which is what you're seeing.. The larger the map, the more time and memory CC3+ will need. Monitor the FastCAD.exe process in Windows Task Manager and see how much memory it is using. Like Fantasy Grounds, CC3+ is a 32-bit application and is large address aware, so if you have a 64-bit operating system you will be able to go up to about 3.7GB of memory use. As you approach that limit CC3+ will become less responsive, so your absolute maximum memory use should be below 3.5GB. If rendering (exporting) a large image, keep an eye on the memory use and if it hits 3.5GB then the image is too big to handle - scale it back. Sheets enable the cool effects that make CC3+ really powerful - but they take a lot of time and memory to render.

While CC3+ is exporting there will be an "Export Status" window appear, that shows all of the passes FG will be going through to render the image. During this time the ame CC3+ window will probably show "Not Responding". That's OK, just don't try to do anything in it.

Personally, I usually export (Save As) as PNG Bitmapat between 100 and 150 pixels per 5 foot square - usually 100 depending on what my end use of the map is. So, for the FCW file you linekd in post #1 (200 feet wide), I'd save to PNG with a width of: (200 / 5) * 100 = 4000 pixels wide, as my first attempt.

Trenloe
December 14th, 2016, 14:39
To follow up - I export from CC3(+) as PNG at the highest resolution than I might use in FG. I then post process in GIMP - resize down to the dots-per-square I intend to use (usually 50, sometimes 100) and then export from GIMP as a JPG with a quality of 50-75. I then fine tune the quality to give a nice small file size for a good level of quality. So I might export a few times from GIMP - which takes a few seconds. Unlike changing quality settings in CC3+ - which can take a long time to re-export. So, start with a good quality image from CC3+ and do all the messing around with size/quality in GIMP (or your chosen graphics app).

Varsuuk
December 14th, 2016, 19:37
Joe Sweeney [Tutorial 2a]

@1:15... mark, he says:

"...130 feet. Of course, 130 feet multiplied by 5 foot for every five...uh, sorry 50 pixels for every 5 foot comes out to...13,000 pixels across. Fairly large but not over the top."

So, I guess he meant to say: 130 / 5 * 50? = 1,300 ... not sure what he did above other than multiply by 2? (5' to 10'??)

So yeah, he was saying 13,000 (and typing it... which is weird, but he was doing this in CC3 not plus so maybe? and he said to set the vertical to "some ungodly high number [he used 300000] the reason for that is with the crop function turned on the software will automatically ..."

It was early AM for me, so I guess I didn't try to follow along with the number calculation.

Varsuuk
December 14th, 2016, 19:43
Thanks guys for CATCHING that ;) I was wondering...

One more thing, I like what his map's "outer glow" on wall looked like after he applied it. However (and ny UI on CC3+ has different options so...) my version looks more like a barely noticable by comparison. And I had to set Opacity to "1%", otherwise the "glow around the wall" is ummm more like really (far) around the wall like a moat between the wall and the dark glow? Hard to explain. But I am guessing if you went to the ~2:00min mark of Tutorial 2a, you might be able to compare the two (can grab my FCW from above to test?)


Thinking I might be able to answer my own question if I knew more about CC3 vs CC3+. Maybe I am better off either doing the tutorials in CC3 or STARTING on (any recommended? anyone?) CC3+ tutorials so when it covers these UI choices I will know the equiv one in the CC3 tutorials?

In either event, I already see how cool this is ;)

Trenloe
December 14th, 2016, 19:55
Sheets haven't changed significantly from CC3 to CC3+. The sheets and effects list you see in the "Drawing Sheets and Effects" window is populated from the style used when creating the drawing. So, if you don't see specific sheets/effects you expect, then it is more than likely that you're using a different style from the example you're looking at - or they added a custom sheet/effect.

Zacchaeus
December 14th, 2016, 20:00
There aren't any CC3+ tutorials really - certainly no bideo ones that I'm aware of. Those Joe Sweeny vids are way out of date really.

Anyway the principle is still the same in CC3+. Go to your wall sheet and either add a glow or edit an existing one. Make the colour black if it isn't already, make the strength about 10-15% and the blur radius about 1-5 and you should be good. The best way to learn what works is to experiment.

Trenloe
December 14th, 2016, 20:05
I still find Joe Sweeney's videos really helpful. They explain the basics of CC3 very well (effects, layers, basic drawing tools, etc.) - these basics are completely relevant in CC3+. Some things might be in a slightly different menu/icon, but the processes haven't changed. CC3+ improves on CC3 in terms of efficiency (re-draw and effects rendering are much quicker), changes to the interface, and other small additions here and there. The main map building process flow, theories and practices really haven't changed much.

Zacchaeus
December 14th, 2016, 21:35
I still find Joe Sweeney's videos really helpful. They explain the basics of CC3 very well (effects, layers, basic drawing tools, etc.) - these basics are completely relevant in CC3+. Some things might be in a slightly different menu/icon, but the processes haven't changed. CC3+ improves on CC3 in terms of efficiency (re-draw and effects rendering are much quicker), changes to the interface, and other small additions here and there. The main map building process flow, theories and practices really haven't changed much.

I should probably go back and look at them again.

Varsuuk
December 15th, 2016, 00:50
OK ... I reran it using CC3 (not CC3+) and this time the video matched what I saw on menus 95% of the time and the output was virtually identical on my screen vis a vis shadow shapes and locations.

I was totally able to export using 1300 / 3000 (with crop, I knew I could calculate myself but followed what he said about putting a "huge" number there for system to recalc.
I went to rect jpg only because wanted to follow the tutorial (I changed BMP to 24 , the middle PNG thing to "Default" and JPG from 75% to 100%.

The result, when zoomed a bit is pretty pixelly, noticable on statue and columns especially.

After make dinner, will pick up from pre-output and do what you guys said - save as BMP then use gimp etc as directed. I'll see how those look later.

I did experiment Zacc, it's how I made it NOT look like an island dungeon with black moat around it at disctance from walls ;) I'll later post the 2 UIs for the shadow, see what I should have done to make it look like the CC3 version but I suspect it needs something not on the CC3+ menu of same feature - because I did "experiment" and no choice matched the video (or my later run on CC3)

Not a big thing, just now I suspect I am better off tutoralling on CC3 since none out there for CC3+ recommended yet. Then will go through the Ultimate Mapping tutorials and when go to use the CC3+ version, I'll read instructions for CC3+.

I really think this is an easy to use thing for making pretty good crappy maps real fast and easy. I mean from just a few minutes to 30 mins, I now know enough to make a dungeon which may not be aesthetically pleasing to those who use this for real - it would totally work for my game playing!

And that is from the GET GO. I cannot imagine learning enough Gimp to do that and collect whatever icons/brushes/etc? (don't even know what I need to look for) to do anything similar. This is already worth my purchase. If I get to making PRETTY maps...wow :) I hope to do overlands soon. I want to redo some old Grehawk maps and maybe parts of C&C maps too to combine them. But that's after I read through the manuals after taking overland tutorials next.

City will be gravy on top. Wonder if any of you ever saw anyone do:
1. Sanctuary Map (Thieves World)
2. Carse, Tulan or Jonril (from Midkemia Press)
3. Other big name cities like Waterdeep, Grehawk, Zhentil Keep, etc?


Thank you two for your great help and support!

jpstodwftexas
December 29th, 2016, 21:16
Yes he made a mistake and in Comments you find it...
Exporting is simple.
Desired DPI X Grids (I design my maps on a 24x36 layout since it is a readily available print option.)
for VTT Maps I usually use 72 DPI so 72X24 and 72x36.
For maps to be printed out I have been doing 300 DPI so 300x24 and 300x36 Depending on Orientation of the Maps

Also I only export as PNG Format

Remember you only have to set your width to desired DPI. Set the Height at a rediculous Number...When you select the area to be copied CC3/CC3+ auto calculates the Actual Size based on the Width.

seycyrus
December 30th, 2016, 02:25
City will be gravy on top. Wonder if any of you ever saw anyone do:
1. Sanctuary Map (Thieves World)
2. Carse, Tulan or Jonril (from Midkemia Press)
...


Never seen em, but sure would love to! Carse and Sanctuary especially. I still have physical copies of those.

jpstodwftexas
December 30th, 2016, 07:45
3. Other big name cities like Waterdeep, Grehawk, Zhentil Keep, etc?


The Forgotten Realms Interactive Atlas was made with Campaign Cartographer.