Newb needs Vet Advice!

[Nursenut]

Hiya!
Just ran my first adventure last night. The role playing aspect went well, in fact I think it helps the GM and the players make a believable game.
Everything went well except for combat. Its seemed really "clunky". I was always had too many windows open, Had a hard time keeping track of combat rolls (who gets what bonus, etc). I'm looking for some advice or tips to make combat much smoother (and quicker!). Thanks!

[Asuril]

Over time, I eventually memorize everyone's attack bonus, damage rolls, etc, so when they say they have a +12 modifier to their attack die, I know they're not lieing.

Just remember to take combat as slowly as you need to at first.

Maybe you should start out with only one or two enemies with the same AC, etc. If you know they'll need a 17 to hit it, then that cuts out a bit of the referencing.

You'll learn the d20 system so everything is second nature. I recommend that the players do their own rolls and add their own modifiers. Make sure you have them write what each modifier is for.

Example:

1d20 + 8 (Attack Bonus) +2 (Charging) +1 (Weapon Focus)

That way, the players learn the system, too, and they'll better know how to progress their characters. :)


EDIT: You may some 1 on 1 or 1 on 2 time with your players outside of the session to go over what their stats mean, and how combat flows. If each player knows what they can/can't do, they'll usually know what they want to do sooner, which speeds up the combat. They'll also know which stats to use.

Practice practice practice!

[kalmarjan]

Okay, I have played about 30+ games on this system so far, and here is what works for me.

Before the game, when you are doing your preparation, use the hotbar keys to store your upcomming encounters attack and damage rolls. You use this with the /die command and Drag to the hot key section that you want. Remember to rename them by right clicking and typing what they are for. With all the 96 combinations, this will store alot of information at your fingertips.

For example, you have a Gnoll ranger who has the favoured enemy of Human and two weapon style fighting, with the Power Attack Feat. Whew! I set it up like so:

/die ?d20+7 Longsword Attack, BAB bonus, Str Bon

I drag that to the hot key place, rename it "Gnoll LS"

For damage, an example is:
/die ?d8+5 Longsword Damage, Str Bon, Favoured Enemy Bonus (Human)

Drag this down, and call it "Gnoll LSFE Dam"

Once you get the hang of this, it will speed up combat immensely. The key is preparation. Believe me, if you have 10 NPC's to run in a combat (I did in my game yesterday) it becomes hectic. You will need all the prep you can, and the hot keys really speed up combat.

As for all the windows: Two things:

1) Lock all tokens. Yes you can trust your players, but this is a better option, you'll see why in point #2.

2) Minimize! Minimize! There is no real reason to have all of those windows open cluttering your screen!
I have everything I need before game, with all the monsters and npc tabs minimized, arranged so I can easily click them. As well as the Map! If your tokens are locked, then you really do not need to see the map all the time do you? The map icon glows when a player interacts with it, so you can click on it to see what is going on.
All I ever have open all the time is the Init tracker. Then I can see whose turn it is in combat. So when the Npc or monster comes up, if I need to consult their sheet, I click on it. Or if I already have an attack in mind for them, I quickly open the map and look at it, make any necessary moves, then minimize it and use those hot keys. (You know, the ones that I set up...)
That goes for any spells that are in effect as well.

Combat with FG can be very long.... We had a 3 1/2 hour session just resolving combat yesterday. If I did not have all the hot keys, I would have been really behind.

One last thing.... Part of the problem is when players leave the computer, or Blank out. This slows down combat considerably. I use the turn flags, bells and such... sometimes to no avail. I am considering a new house rule. If the player does not respond within a minute of real time after being paged three times, his character looses his/her action for that round. Pretty harsh... but after 3 hours, patience of the other players is waning, as the battle that should have been over is on hold for the guy who left his computer without telling anyone.

Hope all this rambling helps, and welcome to the FG community!

Hope your games go well!

Cheers,


Sandeman

[Nursenut]

Great! Thx for the advice. gonna try iy tonight!

[Bitr_Haag]

Well, I'm happy to hear other people taking hours to resolve combat... I mean, I'm glad I'm not the only DM out there w/ the problem!

My thoughts...

1. Combat ALWAYS takes a long time. Even with pencil/paper, it took hours. I've come to "aim" for 45-60 minute battles (usually closer to 80 minute fights).

2. I agree with the above comments that preparation is HUGE! The more you know about your NPC's, monsters, the better.

3. I, personally, like to use written text to add flavor to the fight. I used to type out, "The orc swings at Gandalf's head and misses". It worked ok, but I ran out of adjectives and it takes forever. After gaining more experience, I've come to /whisper the combat results to the PC's and let them add the flavor to the game.

For instance, an orc missing an attack on a fighter may be due to his shield blocking the blow whereas a thief ducked under the swing and a mage backed up several steps. I /whisper "6 dmg short sword" and then let the PC's describe the results while I move on to the next step in combat.

Also, it keeps the PC's paying some more attention during combat as they have to type out the responses before "blanking".

Finally, the PC's and myself like the fact that damage isn't communicated. People have to describe how beat up they are instead of yelling, "I'm at two life! Heal!". Instead, they describe, "Gandalf, bleeding from a dozen wounds staggers under yet another blow! He croaks, "A little help here!" to the cleric". Had a mage panic when the cleric took off in pursuit and the mage was scared a stiff breeze would kill him!

5. Unless there's a clear difference in initiatives, I treat all of my monsters/NPC's at the same initiative. Orcs and an Ogre Chieftain all attack during the same round. A wizard and his bodyguard, however, may not. It all depends. It just helps me stay a bit more organized. I may roll several dice just to confuse the PC's who watch the shadows but I typically take one result and move on.

6. Roll multiple dice at the same time. For 3 orcs attacking three different party members, I roll 3d20 (hidden) and assign the first dice result to the first PC, 2nd dice to the 2nd PC, etc... You have to mentally add the modifier to the roll but I guess this is where my overall mentality of a DM comes into play (see below):

I'm DM'ing to have fun. My players are playing to have fun. I'm not going to bog the game down just to get the dice rolls correct. If I pick my monsters carefully and give them even a glimmer of intelligence, they will be more than a challenge for the PC's even as I fudge, round up/down, guess on modfiers, etc... So I'm probably one of the more liberal minded DM's that uses the rules as "guidelines" instead of worrying about getting the modifier correct (typically rounding down to benefit the PC for my laziness unless the challenge is too easy in which case I round up!).

Example:
Earlier this week, the group fought a Gargantuan Spider. All I used was the HP, initiative, AC, Attack, Dmg, and Poison abilities and almost wiped the group (Str poison is a killer for plate wearing fighters!). Memorizing or jotting down 10 stats is pretty simple and gives these guys a good fight! I could have used webbing as well with the spider but I wanted to focus on getting poisons correct. The next spider probably won't poison but just use webs each round to trap party members (just to see how it works). This way I'm not constantly trying to remember the 16 tricks an NPC or monster has available.

7. Use TeamSpeak or Skype if you want to cut out some typing. Some slower typers may find it much easier. Personally, I feel it interrupts the mood of the game and discourage it but my PC's ask questions, discuss rules, etc... through it to great effect.

8. Encourage your PC's to use macro's as much as possible. Having been both PC and DM, the greatest workload is on the DM. As a PC, your attack should pretty much be done in a few clicks or a dice roll or two. Sometimes I let PC's go at the same time if they are doing two different actions (or attacking different targets). This gets them moving through their turns quicker.

9. Use ezBoards or Yahoo Groups, ect... to handle roleplaying in between adventures so when you start FG, you can jump into "roll initiative" instead of spending time doing RP on FG when you can do it elsewhere just as effectively.

I started trying to do 50% roleplay and 50% combat but now I'm up to 80% combat / 20% RP while on Fantasy Grounds. There's 100% roleplay going on over e-mails and ezBoards postings. Plus, the PC's feel good w/ the roleplaying that goes on describing combat, etc...

The good news is that combat has, and probably always will take a long time. It's not a personal problem but one we all face!

Good luck!

[Crusader]

I have actually yet to run combat over FG. HarnMaster has such a deadly combat system that it discourages combat unless there are options. I'm a bit curious how it will work out though. I guess I will find out sooner or later. :twisted:

[Stuart]

Harn combat difficult ... try Rolemaster ! Mind you ... it's great for terrifying the gung-ho axe-wielding, nostril-flaring barbarian types ! One critical hit ... please, please ... "66" and down they go !

Shame it is too cumbersome for FG !

[kalmarjan]

I concur with all points here. One combat that I ran on FG spanned through 3 four hour sessions. Reason? Well, if it was just run of the mill combat (Okay, you guys meet up with these enemies here? who is going fist...?) then it would have been oh... 20 minutes tops.

You see, when I am at a major crux in the adventure, I do not pull out any stops. If the Npc has a bead of force for instance, well, he uses it! Or a potion for that matter... duh... potion of cure serious? and I am down to 2 HP? No brainer.

This combat in question started off with the Party entering into combat with the enemy engaging a blue dragon. We are talking Blue dragon, Gnoll ranger 5, 2 x 6th level cleric baddies and a half orc muscle. Enter the PC's and whammo, we now have a 11 person combat. Oh yes..... what did you say? Hahaha!
The party cleric was the first victim in the fight with the bead of force......
Then came the nitty gritty dirty combat. Oh yes, and it was super windy at the time!
Finally they nailed the main baddy, who gave up a dying curse at the party mage, rendering him useless! An evoker who cannot see. Well.. now it is down to the fighters and rogues! Oh, what? The 2nd in command is down to 2 HP, no problem! He'll just quaff that cure serious potion that he had!

Yes, combat can be long, but the point is, is it memorable?

That is the key!

Cheers,

Sandeman

[Crusader]

Harn combat difficult ... try Rolemaster ! Mind you ... it's great for terrifying the gung-ho axe-wielding, nostril-flaring barbarian types ! One critical hit ... please, please ... "66" and down they go !

I have, as a player. It's great fun!