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Itsa
October 21st, 2016, 21:33
This is honestly the worst investment I think I have ever made with regards to gaming. While it works "okay" on a local network. I have had nothing but issues with trying to use it over the internet.
Biggest issues:

1. Unable to establish a connection over the internet. Yes I forwarded the port that I had to search the web for.
2. FG2 suggests using a third party VPN solution instead of fixing the problem
3. All windows that are accessed from within FG2 MUST remain in the FG2 main window. Multiple monitors will not help with available screen real estate.
4. Every time I try to pick up a campaign where it left off it takes about an hour of BS to get started.
5. Character builds are more difficult than they should be, there are better spreadsheets online than what is offered in FG2.


Yes I have networking experience, yes I have some coding experience, no I am not looking for trolls. Just identifying what I perceive as major issues with a system that could be SOOOOOO much better for the cost. This is probably the single most important reason I posted these complaints. For the amount of money that is required to have all of the rule sets (same cost a purchasing all of the books) so your cost is doubled if you already have the books. I am really am surprised there isn't a class action against the company.

Bottom line, the software needs several man years of work to make it user friendly, and worth the money.

JohnD
October 21st, 2016, 21:56
This will go well.

gqwebb
October 21st, 2016, 22:36
This is honestly the worst investment I think I have ever made with regards to gaming. While it works "okay" on a local network. I have had nothing but issues with trying to use it over the internet.
Biggest issues:

1. Unable to establish a connection over the internet. Yes I forwarded the port that I had to search the web for.
2. FG2 suggests using a third party VPN solution instead of fixing the problem
3. All windows that are accessed from within FG2 MUST remain in the FG2 main window. Multiple monitors will not help with available screen real estate.
4. Every time I try to pick up a campaign where it left off it takes about an hour of BS to get started.
5. Character builds are more difficult than they should be, there are better spreadsheets online than what is offered in FG2.


Yes I have networking experience, yes I have some coding experience, no I am not looking for trolls. Just identifying what I perceive as major issues with a system that could be SOOOOOO much better for the cost. This is probably the single most important reason I posted these complaints. For the amount of money that is required to have all of the rule sets (same cost a purchasing all of the books) so your cost is doubled if you already have the books. I am really am surprised there isn't a class action against the company.

Bottom line, the software needs several man years of work to make it user friendly, and worth the money.


Best for me based on my own testing. You do mention a great addition that I would enjoy. 4. Having to re-setup the sessions each time.

as for your other points I would point to Dougs 5e training session. And since this is your first post welcome aboard. PM me if you would like help be glad too.

LordEntrails
October 21st, 2016, 22:45
Well Itsa, I'm glad for your feedback. I'll take you at your word you are not trolling and see if I can offer some help. Even though I'm just a user like you, every opinion counts. Welcome to the community, but I'm guessing you won't be sticking around.

Regarding your biggest issues;
1) This issue, and the numerous possible solutions for it, are well documented elsewhere in these forums. There are also many users who will help out when someone is having these issues and even do web meetings to walk you through the solution. Given this is your first post on the forums, I guess you haven't asked for help.
2) A third party vpn is only one of the possible solutions that you could have tried. And most of the time it is the last recommendation.
3) Yes, all the windows must remain docked within the main window. This is part of the core application, and is common in almost all software applications (and is not unique to FG or even unusual). There is a major architecture change underway which among other things may resolve this, but that won't be until at the earliest 2017. And, lots of users use multiple monitors, you just have to stretch the main screen across both monitors.
4) Not sure what you are experiencing here. It takes me about 15 seconds to pick up where I left off. Again, since this is your first post, guess you didn't want any help.
5) Interesting. FG has never claimed to be a character builder or manager, but I still use it to build my characters with no complaints. Maybe you should ask for advice?

As for your threat of a lawsuit. yea, well. That's useful.

Itsa
October 21st, 2016, 23:51
Well Itsa, I'm glad for your feedback. I'll take you at your word you are not trolling and see if I can offer some help. Even though I'm just a user like you, every opinion counts. Welcome to the community, but I'm guessing you won't be sticking around.

Regarding your biggest issues;
1) This issue, and the numerous possible solutions for it, are well documented elsewhere in these forums. There are also many users who will help out when someone is having these issues and even do web meetings to walk you through the solution. Given this is your first post on the forums, I guess you haven't asked for help.
2) A third party vpn is only one of the possible solutions that you could have tried. And most of the time it is the last recommendation.
3) Yes, all the windows must remain docked within the main window. This is part of the core application, and is common in almost all software applications (and is not unique to FG or even unusual). There is a major architecture change underway which among other things may resolve this, but that won't be until at the earliest 2017. And, lots of users use multiple monitors, you just have to stretch the main screen across both monitors.
4) Not sure what you are experiencing here. It takes me about 15 seconds to pick up where I left off. Again, since this is your first post, guess you didn't want any help.
5) Interesting. FG has never claimed to be a character builder or manager, but I still use it to build my characters with no complaints. Maybe you should ask for advice?


As for your threat of a lawsuit. yea, well. That's useful.

Thanks for the replies.

No threat intended. I am just frustrated to no end.
I fully understand the architecture changes that would be required to allow the "un-docking" of windows, and yes it is a huge task, but a highly beneficial feature.
When you spend north of $250.00 for a software suite it should work without 3rd party fixes. Guess it is my fault for not testing it thoroughly enough, should have known better than to rely so heavily on reviews (yep hypocritical as I am writing this review). Tested it locally, and never thought to test it over the internet.
However I still stand by my comments. If FG is truly working to fix some of these issues, then great. Maybe I will try again after a couple updates. Until then truly a dissatisfied customer.

damned
October 22nd, 2016, 00:03
Welcome Itsa


This is honestly the worst investment I think I have ever made with regards to gaming. While it works "okay" on a local network. I have had nothing but issues with trying to use it over the internet.
Biggest issues:

Not to nitpick but this is software to allow you to play games. Its not an investment. It should be coming out of your leisure money.


1. Unable to establish a connection over the internet. Yes I forwarded the port that I had to search the web for.
Its also in the documentation. https://www.fantasygrounds.com/filelibrary/FantasyGroundsUserManual.pdf
Most people that use the software it works fine for - not because they are networking genii but because their networks UPnP kicks in and it works. This is not always the case.
You need to forward TCP 1802 to your computer and you need to make sure your computers firewall is allowing TCP 1802 in.
There are two common situations that I see that cause additional hassles.
1. Some people setup their own (lets call it a) wifi/router behind their (lets call this one a) modem/router and their computer is connected to the wifi/router. In this case you need to port forward twice. Port forward the modem/router to the wifi/router. Port forward the wifi/router to your computer.
2. Some ISPs have started sharing single IPv4 addresses with multiple users meaning that you cannot do port forwarding. The only work arounds to this are your own VPN or something like Hamachi.
If you want some help send me a PM and Ill have a look with you. Im sure we can work thru it together.


2. FG2 suggests using a third party VPN solution instead of fixing the problem
Does this cost FG some customers. Yes I believe it does and I wish it were also "fixed".
The simple fact is the current game engine doesnt support a brokered model. The new engine which will not be out till sometime next year (no date or eta as yet) but this will support the current direct connect model and a brokered model which will work without additional setup on most networks.


3. All windows that are accessed from within FG2 MUST remain in the FG2 main window. Multiple monitors will not help with available screen real estate.
How may programs allow you to do this? If you tried really hard you might name 10 programs that do allow this. Maybe 10 programs out of the hundreds of thousands of programs out their. Maybe you are really familiar with lots of software and you can name more... I dunno - I dont know many and the only notable one that springs to mind is GiMP.


4. Every time I try to pick up a campaign where it left off it takes about an hour of BS to get started.
How long did it take you to learn how to play Dungeons & Dragons? It doesnt happen in 30mins. Fantasy Grounds is a complex piece of software used to play what are very complex games. There is no getting past that. Grab the UserManual above and if you play 5e do the Sample Campaign and get a feel for the basics. I can safely assure you that you will never know everything that this program can do and nor do you need to. I have a lot of experience with this program and there are tonnes of things that I choose not to worry about.


5. Character builds are more difficult than they should be, there are better spreadsheets online than what is offered in FG2.
This isnt a character builder. Its not meant as a tool to teach you how to build characters. There are plenty of other good resources that will do that for you. That and you might have noticed that the Players Handbook for most games is a pretty weighty tome. It requires you ti understand what you are doing and how it all works. 5e has some character build automation - and it does work - but youu have to do things in the right order to get the right output.
There are videos on most of this stuff as well as the forums and the user guide and the sample campaign.


Yes I have networking experience, yes I have some coding experience, no I am not looking for trolls. Just identifying what I perceive as major issues with a system that could be SOOOOOO much better for the cost. This is probably the single most important reason I posted these complaints. For the amount of money that is required to have all of the rule sets (same cost a purchasing all of the books) so your cost is doubled if you already have the books. I am really am surprised there isn't a class action against the company.

Bottom line, the software needs several man years of work to make it user friendly, and worth the money.
Im sure the courts would totally agree with you. They would. Seriously. I mean mean the ugly Cartel of the Wizards of the Coast forced you to buy their books. I mean they grabbed your arms, and twisted them behind your back, took your wallet out and spent your cash. And then when you thought your ordeal was over they flipped your wallet over to Fantasy Grounds who took your money and gave you the exact same product again!
Ok, ok, sorry. I didnt mean to troll either (well maybe a little). The Wizards actually released two completely free versions of their product. And Fantasy Grounds released both of them for free too. You can 100% play D&D on Fantasy Grounds without buying any additional D&D books. There is a massive effort in converting these products to Fantasy Grounds and that effort comes at significant cost. And the authors of the content (The Wizards) deserve their cut as well. I have all the physical books. I have a lot of the digital books. My choice. You can make the same choices and do what works for you. If you give this software a decent go, ask for help when you get stuck, use the UserGuide and some of the videos I think you will overcome your current frustration and you will enjoy the software.
Oh.... and this software is continuously in development. Most years 4 or more major upgrades are released. These are serious upgrades and they dont charge for them. If you invest a few hours with open eyes I think you will find that those many man years have delivered a seriously capable product. Yes - it is not perfect (no where near perfect) but it is way ahead of any other product on the market.

damned
October 22nd, 2016, 00:08
Thanks for the replies.

No threat intended. I am just frustrated to no end.
I fully understand the architecture changes that would be required to allow the "un-docking" of windows, and yes it is a huge task, but a highly beneficial feature.
When you spend north of $250.00 for a software suite it should work without 3rd party fixes. Guess it is my fault for not testing it thoroughly enough, should have known better than to rely so heavily on reviews (yep hypocritical as I am writing this review). Tested it locally, and never thought to test it over the internet.
However I still stand by my comments. If FG is truly working to fix some of these issues, then great. Maybe I will try again after a couple updates. Until then truly a dissatisfied customer.

You can play D&D without buying any of the additional content. When did you buy the software? Did you do the demo or trial subscription first?
Did you join any of the 100 games that ran at FG Con last weekend for free?
Not trolling - serious questions.

Dropping $250 is a serious spend - lets make it worthwhile for you.

There are plenty of people here who can help you understand your challenges and make this software sing for you.
Seriously - share one or two specific issues at a time and we will work thru them with you.
We cant undock your windows and we cant magically broker your network (however we can help you set it up) but we can teach you how to do the things that dont work for you.

LordEntrails
October 22nd, 2016, 00:56
...
No threat intended. I am just frustrated to no end. ...
We get it. Really we do :)

Take damned up on his offer. He can work with you to figure out the internet/network issues you are having. Start there. Then take a look at the videos and guide. Then ask questions. People will step-up to help you out. This forum/community is one of the 3 driving reasons I bought FG after carefully looking at all of the options I could find.

ddavison
October 22nd, 2016, 01:22
Hello Itsa, I'm sorry to hear about your early frustration with the software. We realize that the "entry" to using Fantasy Grounds is often the most difficult for customers due to the networking requirements of setting up a port forward as a hosting DM and then just learning how to use all the features. The next version of major Fantasy Grounds should remove the need to forward ports completely. Thankfully, we are normally able to help people get this set up and very few people ever need to be sent to a VPN solution. Furthermore, the setup only normally needs to happen once. Contact us at [email protected] or take up one of the moderators on the forum like damned and we can get you set up. When emailing, please include screenshots (Alt+PrintScreen) of the launch screen, the FG Settings screen, the Host Test Connection screen with the internal and external IP addresses shown and pictures of your port forward setup.

If you are truly unsatisfied with the software, we offer 100% satisfaction guarantees and will refund any purchases for unsatisfied customers. There was a reason that you bought the software, though, so if you give us an opportunity to assist you, I suspect you will be happier for it in the long run.

-Doug

MadBadHare
October 23rd, 2016, 06:45
Hello Itsa, I'm sorry to hear about your early frustration with the software. We realize that the "entry" to using Fantasy Grounds is often the most difficult for customers due to the networking requirements of setting up a port forward as a hosting DM and then just learning how to use all the features. The next version of major Fantasy Grounds should remove the need to forward ports completely. Thankfully, we are normally able to help people get this set up and very few people ever need to be sent to a VPN solution. Furthermore, the setup only normally needs to happen once. Contact us at [email protected] or take up one of the moderators on the forum like damned and we can get you set up. When emailing, please include screenshots (Alt+PrintScreen) of the launch screen, the FG Settings screen, the Host Test Connection screen with the internal and external IP addresses shown and pictures of your port forward setup.

If you are truly unsatisfied with the software, we offer 100% satisfaction guarantees and will refund any purchases for unsatisfied customers. There was a reason that you bought the software, though, so if you give us an opportunity to assist you, I suspect you will be happier for it in the long run.

-Doug
This is why i am a FG user for life. This is why i will support this company with my hard earned dollars. The community and the company are simply amazing. Simple as that.

damned
October 23rd, 2016, 07:18
Itsa if you want some help thru your initial bumps let me know.

Hawker73
October 23rd, 2016, 14:15
I do have a question about the new version when it comes out, will current license holders get free upgrade? or will we have to repurchase?

For the record I am not a coder, I do have an MCSE from NT days, but have not used it professionally. I am but a humble gamer, and so far this has worked flawlessly for me. If I have had issues it has been from a ruleset, which was created by someone outside the FG company. There is plenty of room for improvements, there always is, but I am just incredibly impressed how well the system works overall. I do wish voice/video was a built in part of the server though. As it has allowed me to game again table top style, it's been worth every penny to me so far.

bnickelsen
October 23rd, 2016, 15:47
This is honestly the worst investment I think I have ever made with regards to gaming. While it works "okay" on a local network. I have had nothing but issues with trying to use it over the internet.
Biggest issues:

1. Unable to establish a connection over the internet. Yes I forwarded the port that I had to search the web for.
2. FG2 suggests using a third party VPN solution instead of fixing the problem
3. All windows that are accessed from within FG2 MUST remain in the FG2 main window. Multiple monitors will not help with available screen real estate.
4. Every time I try to pick up a campaign where it left off it takes about an hour of BS to get started.
5. Character builds are more difficult than they should be, there are better spreadsheets online than what is offered in FG2.


Yes I have networking experience, yes I have some coding experience, no I am not looking for trolls. Just identifying what I perceive as major issues with a system that could be SOOOOOO much better for the cost. This is probably the single most important reason I posted these complaints. For the amount of money that is required to have all of the rule sets (same cost a purchasing all of the books) so your cost is doubled if you already have the books. I am really am surprised there isn't a class action against the company.

Bottom line, the software needs several man years of work to make it user friendly, and worth the money.

I have to admit I think Fantasy Grounds has one of the stepper learning curves of the "Two" systems I have spent any time in. The first few weeks were hard. But once I got past that first hump the learning curve was all down hill and the Program value went straight up.

1 & 2: The connection issue for me was a bid deal. The main issue for me is I travel for work and often I need to run my games from a hotel, no port forwarding for me. For that I use hamachi. Even it took a big to figure out and I had to work with all of the players in my game to get it going. But now it is all second nature. However I will add that I had to come the forum and ask for help.

3: I use the stretch across two screens trick. As a feature request I would like a better solution but in no way does this even slow me down.

4. What issues are you having? I can fire up FG and by the time all the players connect I am ready to go.

5. I agree Character development could be better but it is in noway the worst I have seen.


From My personal experience every software program out there has its own set of Pros and Cons. Fantasy Grounds is no exception. But the pros for me far outweigh the cons. And right at the top of teh list is an outstanding community. If you ask a question in teh forums you will get a response and almost always from multiple people including people from Smiteworks. And the response time is mind numbing. The second Pro for me is their customer support. Never have I seen a company so responsive and agreeable in all of my 50 Years.

I am willing to bet that if you bring your individual issue to teh forum and give your self a little time to get over that curve you will find FG to pretty darn good.

kalmarjan
October 23rd, 2016, 17:02
I have to say, the issues today are NOTHING compared to when I first started up with FG (2004). Doug is an awesome proprietor, and I know that while it may be frustrating at first, it is so worth it.

Take the members up on their offer to help, you will not be disappointed.

bawsr
October 23rd, 2016, 20:28
I understand your frustration. I am a recent Fantasy Ground convert (less than a year). I had lots of bumps initially because I just wasn't doing things right. The program is a little dated and has a few minor issues. I have bought almost everything 5e (and lots of other systems out) I understand that Spend amount is significant.

This is the best thing I have seen for playing with people around the country and old friends. It isn't perfect but I think they are investing the time and money and heading the right direction. If you need help, I will be happy to help but there are lots of people here with lots of experience that can help you get what you were looking for out of your purchases.

rob2e
October 23rd, 2016, 20:51
This is why I am a FG user for life. This is why i will support this company with my hard earned dollars. The community and the company are simply amazing. Simple as that.

Itsa,

You won't find better support with any community (for any product). It's worth your time. Trust me, I'm in 9 (bi)weekly games. 8 of them use Fantasy Grounds, and the one that doesn't is old school pencil and paper (so far), I am slowly phasing in FG via the combat tracker for initiative, etc.

Once you get rolling, there's no looking back, and this "investment" is WELL worth the money. You'll see...

Topdecker
October 24th, 2016, 14:21
A couple of personal observations about FG...

It took me ~12 hours of messing around and watching tutorials before I started getting comfortable / productive with the software. I quit around hour 5 and let it sit for a few days.

Around ~28 hours into it, I realized that I had not been doing some things especially efficiently and had to re-edit a few things. Point is that it will be a continuing learning experience and that you will continue to learn things about the software if you keep an open mind.

Finally, you might consider joining a pickup game or asking to join a session as an observer. Watch a game ran by an experienced GM and see how well or how poorly things go. You'll also learn quite a bit from doing this, since it seems like everyone has learned a short-cut or a faster way to accomplish some common task. Operating lone wolf is fine, but maybe watching a session might speed you along and make you feel as though you might get some returns on your investment.

I've spent over 400 hours GMing and working on D&D 5e materials. I decided recently that I wanted to explore a different RPG system and picked up Savage Worlds. I've joined a couple of Savage World 1-off games during FG Con 9 and just recently joined a bi-weekly campaign because I felt that participating in Savage Worlds as a player would help me get more out of the system (learning/experiencing both the core rules and how Fantasy Grounds works - they are inseparable, really). So I am guy with over 400 hours of experience with FG that is still taking the time learn where I can.

Tim

Talyn
October 24th, 2016, 16:41
Itsa First, welcome to the community and I hope you decide to stick it out. By all means, take damned up on his offer to help. He is by far one of the most knowledgeable and helpful of all of us. He'll bend over backwards to try to explain things and teach you. We all feel your pain -- FG does indeed have a steep learning curve and is a bit intimidating. We've all been in your shoes. If it helps at all, FG itself is an older piece of software and the engine tech it uses is limited compared to what we're used to today. SmiteWorks took over the project a few years ago and they're doing what they can to improve and support the current client for us all the while trying to get it moved over to the Unity engine which will allow more modern niceties as well as some all-new features for the platform eventually. But hey, we're all consumers and we want a smooth experience out of the gate, who cares what the history may be or what's going on behind the scenes that the average consumer wouldn't even have knowledge of. We all get that. So, I hope you take a breather and decide to give FG a chance, and if someone offers to take time out of their day and help, take them up on the offer. That's rare these in these days of toxic internet gamers, after all. :)


I do have a question about the new version when it comes out, will current license holders get free upgrade? or will we have to repurchase?

Right now, what we're hearing is that yes, there will be a nominal "upgrade" fee when the Unity version is released. I suspect mostly to cover some of the costs of switching and around 3+ years of trying to get the thing out the door. They're not happy about that, though, but you know how businesses have to pass along some of their costs to the consumers and all that.


I do wish voice/video was a built in part of the server though. As it has allowed me to game again table top style, it's been worth every penny to me so far.

I dunno, I think I'd rather them leave VOIP/Video out of it, since this is a PC-only product. Let the users choose their own preferred method of communication -- Discord, TeamSpeak, C3, Ventrilo, Skype, you name it. SmiteWorks is a very small company; off-hand I can only think of like 4 employees I know of. Licensing C3 or one of the other VOIP who do licensing will add even more cost to them which will have to get passed on to us somehow. If anything, I'd like to have some sound effects for more events than simply triggering the OS "bell" when it's my turn on the combat tracker. There are so many other events it would be nice to have some audio notifications when they trigger. Plus users could do their own "audio themes."

dulux-oz
October 25th, 2016, 02:16
I'd like to have some sound effects for more events than simply triggering the OS "bell" when it's my turn on the combat tracker. There are so many other events it would be nice to have some audio notifications when they trigger. Plus users could do their own "audio themes."

Have you looked into the DOE: Sound Extension? V1 is avaliable now and does most of what you want, and v2 is being released when FGv3.2 gets released and has the rest of what you want. The link to the Forum Thread is here (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?31369-DOE-Sound-Extension).

Cheers

JohnD
October 25th, 2016, 03:20
I could be wrong... I did get married after all... and I continue to subject myself to it... but when someone posts in an inflammatory manner, my first instinct is that nothing anyone can/will do/say/offer will change their opinion.

But... as I said; I could be wrong. It's happened before; earlier this afternoon in fact.

YMMV

ddavison
October 25th, 2016, 23:25
I could be wrong... I did get married after all... and I continue to subject myself to it... but when someone posts in an inflammatory manner, my first instinct is that nothing anyone can/will do/say/offer will change their opinion.

But... as I said; I could be wrong. It's happened before; earlier this afternoon in fact.

YMMV

Regardless of whether or not they change their mind, I am very happy with how the community responded to this and other posts like it.

Mortar
October 26th, 2016, 18:08
Regardless of whether or not they change their mind, I am very happy with how the community responded to this and other posts like it.

Says alot of what the community thinks of the people behind FG.

MentalChillness
October 28th, 2016, 06:43
FG and D&D 5e are my main hobby/lifestyle at the moment and I'm proud of it. It takes much less time and work to get started and running than other platforms. Even if you don't have much cash, there's so much community help and extras contributed freely. People strapped for cash and/or time can get the most immersive gaming experience through this platform. This system gives you the ability to be developer and gamer all in one. Hell, it's probably the cheapest, most satisfying, educational, problem solving, creativity boosting hobby that one can have. I'm sorry it's not working for you (OP), but I bought it for my 30th, and it's the best mid-mid life crisis a guy like me can have. Thank you all for the hard work put into extensions, modules, providing programs like Par5e, maps, adventures, tokens, and everything. I only hope that I can put in my share over time.

Trenloe
October 28th, 2016, 16:56
Unfortunately the OP has not visited the forums in a week - since they replied in this thread (post #5). I understand the frustration, but just publicly venting and leaving doesn't help anyone. They obviously have a need/want for a good VTT, or they wouldn't have splashed the cash. I hope they return to read the offers of assistance and support given to them in this thread. It's incredibly rare that the community can't help get someone up and running. Seems a big shame to not give the software, and community, a chance...