Skill: [prf]

[Brynnan]

The following works:

SKILL: 3 athletics

Can you confirm that the following effect should also be valid?

SKILL: [PRF] athletics

None of the bracketed keywords are working [STR], etc.

Also, "SKILL:" is not listed on the 5E Effects Wiki page except in the examples at the bottom. It's not listed up in the keywords table.

[Zacchaeus]

Hmm, interesting. As far as I knew SKILL is not a keyword but as you say SKILL: 3 athletics does actually work and MW did include a couple of examples. Nothing else does like [STR] [LVL] etc When I get a minute I'll see about updating the Wiki.

Just FYI it will take a dice value as well

[Brynnan]

I would very much like the newly discovered keyword to work with [PRF] to support Wild Shape. It actually works, it just doesn't actually use the value, it uses 0 instead. The chat window will say [Effects] but not [Effects+2] as expected.

While I could hard code it, the bracketed keywords work in place of Dice values in other places.

[Trenloe]

SKILL: [PRF] athletics works for me. As mentioned in the Effects Wiki page, the values in [] are only calculated when the effect is added to the PC from their character sheet - and FG substitutes the current value from the character sheet. So, if a PC had a proficiency bonus of +2, and an effect in their character sheet of SKILL: [PRF] athletics (#1 below), when the effect is added to the PC in the combat tracker would actually give an effect of SKILL: 2 athletics in the combat tracker (#2 below).

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=15577

[LordEntrails]

So this could not be added to the CT directly as an effect by the GM? It would have to be added as an action/power from the character sheet?

[rob2e]

So this could not be added to the CT directly as an effect by the GM? It would have to be added as an action/power from the character sheet?

I have found this to be true. Disappointing, but things like [PRF], [STR], [LVL], etc. only work when applied FROM the character sheet, not the effects window. I suppose because the FG CT doesn't "pull" info from PCs, but instead translates it when it moves it from the character sheet to the CT. I'm no programmer, but it seems that's the process. Can anyone confirm that? Also, what kind of unholy hell would it be for SmiteWorks to allow the CT to "read" character sheets and make this possible?

[Brynnan]

And by Trenloe's response I'm guessing it pulls the modifier like [STR] directly from the Character Sheet and ignores any other effects such as STR:2 which would increase the modifier.

So it is pulling the original Character Sheet info, or the current info?

In a similar vein, is there any way to see the currently calculated stats with all effects? For example, being able to hover of Strength to see the correct effected STR? (I know hover does work, but can you get it some other way other than just hitting saves and checks until you figure it out?)

[Zacchaeus]

I'm not entirely sure what you mean but hopefully the attached graphic helps.

As you can see Bob the Wizard has a spell on him which gives him +3 to Attack. He also has an effect dragged onto him from the Effects tab giving him 2 points of strength.

When Bob makes a strength check he gets an additional one point from the STR: 2 effect (He has STR of 16 giving him a +3 normally but the +2 gives him another +1 bonus). When he attacks he is getting a total of +4 extra on his attack (His normal bonus to attack is +5 given his current strength and the +2 STR gives him an extra points and his attack gives him an additional 3 for a total of 4 bonus points). So, if I'm understanding you correctly all of the bonuses that he is due are being correctly calculated no matter where he gets them from, as long as they are on the CT.

As for your other point since any effect doesn't directly affect the actual STR (in this case) you can't see what the bonuses are from other sources. But you do see them when a roll is made in chat.

[Trenloe]

I have found this to be true. Disappointing, but things like [PRF], [STR], [LVL], etc. only work when applied FROM the character sheet, not the effects window. I suppose because the FG CT doesn't "pull" info from PCs, but instead translates it when it moves it from the character sheet to the CT. I'm no programmer, but it seems that's the process. Can anyone confirm that? Also, what kind of unholy hell would it be for SmiteWorks to allow the CT to "read" character sheets and make this possible?
This is exactly the way it has been designed and how the process works. It is stated in the effects documentation and mentioned by me in post #4 above.

If you want changes to this please log it in the usual place - the FG wishlist. Thanks.

[Zacchaeus]

FYI Moon Wizard just updated the Wiki (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/wiki/index.php/5E_Effects#Modifiers) to include the SKILL keyword.

[Nickademus]

I have found this to be true. Disappointing, but things like [PRF], [STR], [LVL], etc. only work when applied FROM the character sheet, not the effects window. I suppose because the FG CT doesn't "pull" info from PCs, but instead translates it when it moves it from the character sheet to the CT. I'm no programmer, but it seems that's the process. Can anyone confirm that?

You are correct. For the record, effects are just text put into the Combat Tracker. They hold no hidden data and only pass the info that is put into the string given to the CT. Thus the effects from the effects window have only the data that you see in the effects window (effect text, expend choice, duration). They do not pull data from anywhere else.

Personally I find the Effect Window to be the least effective place to utilize effects from for this reason. I ended up making an NPC to hold my effects so I could have more interaction with them, before I just started running a bare game.

[damned]

I'm not entirely sure what you mean but hopefully the attached graphic helps.

As you can see Bob the Wizard has a spell on him which gives him +3 to Attack. He also has an effect dragged onto him from the Effects tab giving him 2 points of strength.

When Bob makes a strength check he gets an additional one point from the STR: 2 effect (He has STR of 16 giving him a +3 normally but the +2 gives him another +1 bonus). When he attacks he is getting a total of +4 extra on his attack (His normal bonus to attack is +5 given his current strength and the +2 STR gives him an extra points and his attack gives him an additional 3 for a total of 4 bonus points). So, if I'm understanding you correctly all of the bonuses that he is due are being correctly calculated no matter where he gets them from, as long as they are on the CT.

As for your other point since any effect doesn't directly affect the actual STR (in this case) you can't see what the bonuses are from other sources. But you do see them when a roll is made in chat.

And the coding to achieve this is quite complex! So many things to check and so many dependencies! It is pretty bloody amazing in my opinion.

[Brynnan]

Zacchaeus, what I was asking and I think Rob2e alluding to, is if a character has regular Strength of 12 (+1), and then an effect of STR:4, if he then applies an effect that includes the [STR], will it return the original +1 or the new +3?

I tested and found that it returns the original character sheet number instead of the newly adjusted number. Which I think is ok, but it's an important distinction.

[Trenloe]

Zacchaeus, what I was asking and I think Rob2e alluding to, is if a character has regular Strength of 12 (+1), and then an effect of STR:4, if he then applies an effect that includes the [STR], will it return the original +1 or the new +3?

I tested and found that it returns the original character sheet number instead of the newly adjusted number. Which I think is ok, but it's an important distinction.
[STR] will return whatever the actual bonus value is currently on the character sheet (when the [STR] based effect is applied to the character) - it is not adjust by any effects, as these don't change the value on the character sheets. This is correct behaviour as it then allows currently active effects to be applied to any strength based checks as normal, expire when they should, etc. without impacting any other strength based effects.

[Nickademus]

To give you an idea of how effects work: the effects are just strings of text in the Combat Tracker. No adjustments are made to anything on a long-term basis. Each time that FG is told to take an action that could potentially be modified by an effect, FG grabs all the effect strings in the CT and cycles through the list looking for the tags that match the action being taken. (I believe it actually cycles through three times for some reason.) Then the values from the effects are applied to the action values held within the roll object, which is then displayed in chat window and disposed of. The effects never touch data on a character or NPC; they aren't even remembered by FG after it cycles through the list and applies them to the roll in question. FG has to cycle through the entire combat tracker each action specifically because the changes from effects are never permanently applied.

[Moon Wizard]

Also, if you allow effect tags to be resolved at time of use, you run into an interesting situation where either the order matters (if you only allow one pass), or the tags are unresolvable (if you allow multiple passes). (i.e. What should the bonus be if your effect is? "STR: [STR]; CHECK: [STR] strength")

It not about whether the game system really uses bonuses like that (though I wouldn't be surprised), but the effects system has to be able to resolve whatever a user enters regardless of what the game system might define.

Regards,
JPG