5e Player's Handbook [Archive] - Fantasy Grounds Message Boards

damned

October 3rd, 2016, 05:26

The Wizards didnt want it sold as The Players Handbook because it is not the same as the physical product, it isnt a standalone product, it works only with Fantasy Grounds. The actual name used was (I think) by Smite Works and approved by the Wizards. Possibly now that there s much more awareness of what all the products are etc they might not have minded but that would mean having to go thru marketing and legals all over again... So Complete Core Class Pack it still is.

Nickademus

October 3rd, 2016, 10:25

You could always put in the first line of the product description, "This is the Player's Handbook." I'm not sure if that would show up in a Store search though.

Zacchaeus

October 3rd, 2016, 12:09

The FG PHB will look much more like the physical product soon. :)

gbink

October 3rd, 2016, 23:11

Thanks for the replies everyone that clears things up for me.

@Zacchaeus Why? I assume that you are talking about improvements to the FG interface. can you be more specific?

Zacchaeus

October 3rd, 2016, 23:21

Yeah, it just looks more like the actual book. When it first came out the ability to embed images etc wasn't available.

LordEntrails

October 4th, 2016, 00:53

@gbink, I think Z's teasing us. There is a significant update (3.2) coming out in the next few weeks that has a bunch of enhancements in it. It sounds like one of them is the ability to have images embedded in text/story entries. There's been some talk of this in the latest modules that have been converted/released, but I don't have any of them yet so... I'm reading between the lines :)

Moon Wizard

October 4th, 2016, 01:00

The reference manual in modules can support dual column stacked entries, so you can replicate most RPG books using that format. Zacchaeus has been a busy boy.

JPG

kalmarjan

October 4th, 2016, 02:20

Nice! Can't wait to see how it looks. Tables are the biggest PITA for conversions, but seeing the layout look like the books would be sweet!

kp9911

October 4th, 2016, 11:16

JPG

Was there a preview pic attached here?

damned

October 4th, 2016, 11:28

Was there a preview pic attached here?

JPG are Moon Wizards initials... :)

Zacchaeus

October 4th, 2016, 11:29

Here you go

kp9911

October 4th, 2016, 11:39

JPG are Moon Wizards initials... :)

OMG hahahahaha sorry Moon Wizard didn't know that cantrip ;)

Here you go

Good God! That's beautiful. Looks like I'm going to need to make another parser :c

MarianDz

October 4th, 2016, 13:35

Here you go

uff :ninja: our "FG ship" on last stop in harbour takes very good crew of peoples seems :).
Once again thanks you boys, let wind of changes blows still stronger and always from behind (in slang language +4).

kp9911

October 4th, 2016, 13:50

I'm still waiting to read about the upcoming changes in 3.2 till now I have not seen anything.

Nylanfs

October 4th, 2016, 13:58

You mean the sticky in the Laboratory?

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?32034-Test-Release-v3-2-0

kp9911

October 4th, 2016, 15:25

You mean the sticky in the Laboratory?

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?32034-Test-Release-v3-2-0

Defiantly failed that perception check even with advantage :c

Nickademus

October 5th, 2016, 11:07

Here you go

So is PAR5E going to get the code to do that fancy design?

damned

October 5th, 2016, 11:13

Par5e has the code to do that now - but that is the developer version. The public version of par5e will not be updated any further. This has been stated several times at least.

Zacchaeus

October 5th, 2016, 11:45

You can do it in the XML though (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/wiki/index.php/Reference_Manuals) if you have a mind to.

LordEntrails

October 5th, 2016, 17:50

You can do it in the XML though (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/wiki/index.php/Reference_Manuals) if you have a mind to.
Does anyone have an example of this? It would be much easier for me if I had an example I could take apart to understand :)

rob2e

October 5th, 2016, 19:21

Par5e has the code to do that now - but that is the developer version. The public version of par5e will not be updated any further. This has been stated several times at least.

Through what means of bribery, sorcery, or skullduggery might it be possible for the community to obtain the developer version of PAR5E? We could all do such fantastic work if we didn't have to clunk around with the unsupported (very learning curve intensive) version.

Hmm? Prithy?

kp9911

October 5th, 2016, 19:37

Unfortunately due to business reasons, we will probably never see the level 20 version of the parser.

In all likeliness hopefully someone or the other will create one *wink*

rob2e

October 5th, 2016, 19:41

Unfortunately due to business reasons, we will probably never see the level 20 version of the parser.

In all likeliness hopefully someone or the other will create one *wink*

For those of us that develop for the DMs guild, etc., I can only see how it would positively affect Smiteworks. But I admittedly do not have an MBA, so I don't know what the "business reasons" would be for not releasing it to the community.

Zacchaeus

October 5th, 2016, 19:43

Through what means of bribery, sorcery, or skullduggery might it be possible for the community to obtain the developer version of PAR5E? We could all do such fantastic work if we didn't have to clunk around with the unsupported (very learning curve intensive) version.

Hmm? Prithy?

It isn't going to happen. The developer version includes a great deal of copyright information. And just in case you are running away with the idea that the developer version is some kind of easy thing to master then think again. It's the same basic program. It's just that it does a bit more under the hood.

Nickademus

October 5th, 2016, 19:47

Par5e has the code to do that now - but that is the developer version. The public version of par5e will not be updated any further. This has been stated several times at least.

I was referring to the public version since that is all we can get. So the answer is no it can't.

You can do it in the XML though (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/wiki/index.php/Reference_Manuals) if you have a mind to.

I'll look at this more closely when I'm not so tired, but is all the advanced formatting that the DevPAR5e uses documented here? I was under the impression that SW wasn't telling how to make the code for the luxury features.

Zacchaeus

October 5th, 2016, 19:53

All the formatting for frames in in that code. Not terribly sure about the other bits.

rob2e

October 5th, 2016, 19:58

It isn't going to happen. The developer version includes a great deal of copyright information. And just in case you are running away with the idea that the developer version is some kind of easy thing to master then think again. It's the same basic program. It's just that it does a bit more under the hood.

I might have missed it, but what is the reason there isn't support for the "public" version any more?

kp9911

October 5th, 2016, 20:11

we made a decision to branch off PAR5E into a separate internal tool. For us to continue pushing this tool to support more and more new features, it didn't make sense for us to provide that same level of enhancement as the free version. It wouldn't be in our interest or in the interest of our partner, Wizards of the Coast, to compete against our self with the free version. With that said, you can still link your spells to your completed NPCs by dragging spells to them within Fantasy Grounds.

Managed to find this snippet.

Zacchaeus

October 5th, 2016, 20:21

Also there's only one Zeus. :)

kp9911

October 5th, 2016, 20:24

Also there's only one Zeus. :)

We don't expect to replace him however we also have tricks and tools with us :p

Nickademus

October 5th, 2016, 22:09

I might have missed it, but what is the reason there isn't support for the "public" version any more?
Because:

we made a decision to branch off PAR5E into a separate internal tool. For us to continue pushing this tool to support more and more new features, it didn't make sense for us to provide that same level of enhancement as the free version. It wouldn't be in our interest or in the interest of our partner, Wizards of the Coast, to compete against our self with the free version.

A.k.a. only the people making official FG modules should get the best presentation. But now that Smite Works has changed their business model to allow any of us to sell 'official' FG modules on the DMsG, the reason is simply because PAR5E isn't made by Smite Works and the person/people that make it don't want us to use the best presentation. While it makes sense for the perspective of the PAR5E creators, it seems counterproductive now for Smite Works to have us plebeians putting content on the DMsG under the FG category that doesn't look as good. At what point in time did this become a competition between members of the FG community?

Though in reality, PAR5E isn't even needed as it is just a tool that creates the xml files for you. There is no reason why we can't just make the xml files without PAR5E and have modules that look just as good going onto the DMsG. (Honestly, it's my belief that we who do not have the DevPAR5E have a responsibility to work with the xml to make the module look as good as possible before putting it up for sale as an 'FG module'.) This is of course assuming that all the xml code that DevPAR5E produces is documented on the wiki for us to learn, which is what I am hoping for.

rob2e

October 5th, 2016, 22:35

damned

October 5th, 2016, 22:54

As Zacchaeus says - the internal Par5e version is no less complicated - it is in fact more complicated as it supports some more options.
The reasoning is pretty much that the FG official stuff, the stuff with contracts and royalties that the IP owners get paid for should have the best quality.

Yes DMSGuild also has royalties but the standard for publication is much lower.
SmiteWorks have acknowledged that this would be unpopular but it is a commercial decision.
Things change though... no harm in asking...

And as kp9911 so ably demonstrates - others can make their own parsers and as many other community devs do, coding by hand is also completely feasible.

Nickademus

October 5th, 2016, 23:24

Nickademus is right. The problem with doing it in FG directly is that you CANNOT create class, race, feat, etc. if you could do it all with FG, there'd be no need to use PAR5E. But since it seems it IS needed to create everything, maybe it would make sense to let community developers use it on a qualifying basis?

There is a step in the process that you are missing, probably because you never saw it. I'm finding most 5e people don't know a lot about the xml files. Those of us (like me) that come from another ruleset don't have the benefit of a program like PAR5E, thus we had to create or edit the raw xml files.

I'm not talking about making content in FG. Fantasy Grounds isn't even running when you edit the xml files. I'm talking about opening the module pak, opening a .xml file in Notepad++ and manually typing in or overwriting data in xml tags. Creating an .xml file is what PAR5E does. To my knowledge, it is all that PAR5E does. It's a nice time-saver if you know the syntax for it, but it is 100% unneeded as FG doesn't read PAR5E files. It reads the xml files that PAR5E (or someone else) creates.

The reasoning is pretty much that the FG official stuff, the stuff with contracts and royalties that the IP owners get paid for should have the best quality.

Yes DMSGuild also has royalties but the standard for publication is much lower.
SmiteWorks have acknowledged that this would be unpopular but it is a commercial decision.

So Smite Works is purposely wanting the community content to be of lower quality in order to place the licensed content up on a pedestal? I would think that quality should be a byproduct of time and effort and that a lot of time and effort be purposely put into the licensed material, but also any community member that wants to put as much time and effort into an FG module (without the good royalties) can also make a quality product.

JohnD

October 5th, 2016, 23:36

I might have missed it, but what is the reason there isn't support for the "public" version any more?

Uh they want you to buy the products. So does WotC.

Nickademus

October 5th, 2016, 23:47

Uh they want you to buy the products. So does WotC.

This is irrelevant. The products that SW/WotC are selling can be currently made by normal people with PAR5E, just with a different display format. People were parsing in 5e content with PAR5E prior to the WotC license.

You can do it in the XML though (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/wiki/index.php/Reference_Manuals) if you have a mind to.

Okay, after having taken my nap, I've taken a better look at this. Everything looks good; for reference manuals, this seems to be all the code that is needed to create the nicely-displayed pages you posted. The idea of a 'token' is a bit weird in this context. I'm assuming that is what creates the images behind the text such as in the 'Building Bruenor' section. This is exactly what I was looking for, well one of the things.

Thank you kindly, sir, for pointing this out.

Zacchaeus

October 6th, 2016, 00:04

This is irrelevant. The products that SW/WotC are selling can be currently made by normal people with PAR5E, just with a different display format. People were parsing in 5e content with PAR5E prior to the WotC license.

Okay, after having taken my nap, I've taken a better look at this. Everything looks good; for reference manuals, this seems to be all the code that is needed to create the nicely-displayed pages you posted. The idea of a 'token' is a bit weird in this context. I'm assuming that is what creates the images behind the text such as in the 'Building Bruenor' section. This is exactly what I was looking for, well one of the things.

Thank you kindly, sir, for pointing this out.

Yes if you are using the picture tag you need a png file which is stored in the tokens folder. Image files and are stored in the images folder.

JohnD

October 6th, 2016, 04:51

This is irrelevant. The products that SW/WotC are selling can be currently made by normal people with PAR5E, just with a different display format. People were parsing in 5e content with PAR5E prior to the WotC license.

Huh. Online communication is so pleasant from time to time.

As Zacchaeus says - the internal Par5e version is no less complicated - it is in fact more complicated as it supports some more options.
The reasoning is pretty much that the FG official stuff, the stuff with contracts and royalties that the IP owners get paid for should have the best quality.

...
SmiteWorks have acknowledged that this would be unpopular but it is a commercial decision.

Not so "irrelevant" to the people who own the IPs it seems. But as the saying goes "But that's none of my business."

It strikes me that there is a law of diminishing returns when involving oneself in conversations in online communities, even one as comparatively nice as this one.

Nickademus

October 6th, 2016, 05:07

I could commit to going around in circles with you on this, but I get the feeling that we are talking about two different scenarios and the points we make will never be relevant to the other's point of view. Diminishing returns is a good way of putting it.

At any rate, I believe everyone got the information out of this thread that they were looking for.

kp9911

October 6th, 2016, 05:37

Being a developer irl and working for a company I knew how this was going to play out. If a company has a tool that produces goods and only the goods are sold you can be damn sure the company is not gonna just sell or give the tool away.

I'm gonna guess and say the most important thing here is that the .mods created with the dev version have an encryption algorithm attached because it always prompts you with a password should you try to read any of the files in there.

However there is hope this community is bright and very generous. We have people creating maps. We have people giving advice and we have people making their own parsers or even adding their ideas to the pot. The only thing we need is patience I guess.

damned

October 6th, 2016, 06:10

Hey kp9911 the code that drives the features that people want from par5e that arent in it already have been shared in these forums and the wiki so the features are still accessible but just require some more work to get access to them.
The Fantasy Grounds framework is a fairly open one - not completely open, but they do give us all access to a lot of stuff.

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kp9911

October 6th, 2016, 07:20

I'm aware of it, I managed to successfully create a parser by just looking at the xml format and content of what par5e does so no complaints from my side. The reason I had made one in the first place was because I could see the scope for making it easier and since par5e was not open knowledge I had decided to go ahead and create my own. Making it public was my small contribution to the community as a whole. Even if smite works uses it I would be overjoyed that I have contributed in some way to the developers of the software I really love to use :D

I'm also well aware of the wiki and the forum topics, the only reason I had disappeared was because of IRL stuff :p It took Zeus months to get the par5e public version working so I know whats in store to continue something like that.

All said and done we as a community are also making progress in various areas and it is this progression that keeps it alive and brings more ideas to the table.