Testing the waters...

[Mortar]

All you Crusaders out there. C&C needs some love on FG. Starting to do some conversion work on products I don't see in the store yet. I put up a big long blog post about some projects I have on the go and/or just finished. There is a bit about a C&C conversion I have just started. If you are interested check out either of the blog links in my signature, and feed back is always welcome.

[JohnD]

More stuff for Castles and Crusades will be nice!

[Mortar]

I'm pretty sure there is nobody actively doing anything with the ruleset. Only issue I have is I started collecting the basics, so most of what I have for C&C is already on FG. There is a pile that it isn't ...yet. I just need to watch the sales on Drivethru as I find TLG's PDFs are definitely not on the cheaper side.

[Trenloe]

I just need to watch the sales on Drivethru as I find TLG's PDFs are definitely not on the cheaper side.
TLG regularly have sales on their own website - subscribe to their newsletter and keep an eye out for sales, they frequently have 30%, 40% and sometimes 50% off (at least that seems to be the case in the last couple of months). https://www.trolllord.com/tlgstore/ After a while looking through the store an invitation to join the newsletter popped up.

EDIT: or sign up here: https://visitor.r20.constantcontact.com/manage/optin?v=0016pZWH3n2NTrqwVZV4qiV4o74-nNjQxFLujaGhQDQW_byETY3X81B4qWaNCicgNocjG7uR61RhdG kyvvbFfAwEQUZTxmAO3j_Aitdj3c6Q7A%3D

[Mortar]

Already signed for it. I have a 15% coupon code for their store when I signed up. Also, I need to identify what products FG users want in the store, and what Doug would like to see in there as well.

[JohnD]

Already signed for it. I have a 15% coupon code for their store when I signed up. Also, I need to identify what products FG users want in the store, and what Doug would like to see in there as well.

1 vote for the Free City of Eskadia here. Expanded Classes is a newer release that would be nice.

Colour content from the recent printings, especially the tokens, as an update to the existing products would be welcome as well. Better handling of multi-classed characters on the PC sheet would be welcome, especially as it pertains to the Spells tab )which existed in an earlier version of the ruleset prior to the big update that gave us what we have now).

Not sure personally about modules - the older ones are IMO on the side of requiring an unacceptable level of additional CK work IMO - assume any new ones would make better use of better resolution maps and actually contain complete stat blocks for NPCs instead of the partial stuff (understanding you can only work with what TLG gives you in the original product... a case where the minimal approach is not better). Perhaps an issue of personal preference/approach, admittedly.

[Mortar]

The one I started with was Expanded Class to give me the best idea of how the ruleset differs behind the scenes. I have Eskadia in PDF so that will be done for sure. What I do own in PDF is in the attached image.
15124

All either Drivethru or TLG. Updating older products is the list as well.

The changes to the character sheet are something that will take me a bit longer, I have very little experience with lua, It is something that I will get worked out though.

[JohnD]

Bluffside would be another good one.

[dberkompas]

Lost City of Gaxmoor

[JohnD]

Lost City of Gaxmoor

That would be a good one - there are a few supplemental modules with it that were stretch or supplemental goals/extras.

[Talyn]

What state is the ruleset itself in? I have zero experience with C&C (never heard of it til I got FG in fact) but I was talking with Mortar about possibly helping him out with some conversions. Like him, however, my Lua is way beyond rusty so at this point in time fixing a ruleset is beyond my ability.

[Andraax]

It's one of the best supported rulesets out there.

[Talyn]

It's one of the best supported rulesets out there.

Really? I heard it was on maintenance mode essentially. That was one of Mortar's (and my) concerns about taking on any projects. I'll look into it then.

[Mortar]

It's one of the best supported rulesets out there.

Mostly because Moon and/or Doug update the ruleset as new stuff is added to Core, but they aren't actively working to add more automation or improve ruleset specific features - they don't have time. I am unaware if the original dev(s) are still doing anything with the ruleset itself, nor am I aware of anyone actively converting C&C products. I am pretty sure most of the products that are available were all released before, at the same time or just after FG hit Steam - or I should say I see nothing more recent in the Store that is C&C specific.

[Mortar]

Lost City of Gaxmoor


That would be a good one - there are a few supplemental modules with it that were stretch or supplemental goals/extras.

Added to my list

[Talyn]

Well, I bought the ruleset and yes, Doug and/or MW updated it to use some of the same windows as 5E does. The only FG Conversion author I spotted in all of that was PW so... we can both pester him. :) I did spot a couple things that could use fixing (typos and images not labeled which was never an issue until 3.2.0) so I'll consider asking PW if he cares if I give it a little TLC at some point.

[Mask_of_winter]

I'm not 100% sure but I believe C&C was picked up by Phantomwhale.

[Andraax]

Who needs C&C specific products? I just run any old OSRIC / D&D 1E / S&W / etc stuff.

[dberkompas]

Nothing to see here, move on to the next post.

[Mortar]

Who needs C&C specific products? I just run any old OSRIC / D&D 1E / S&W / etc stuff.

You're not wrong there at all, but there are people that would like to have C&C specific products in the store and are willing to let someone else do the work.

[TheMetal1]

Been out of the loop for a while I am a big fan of Castles & Crusades. Ran several campaigns both F2F and on FG. I would welcome any new stuff to be put out for it.

I do wonder if Troll Lord Games and Smite Works would consider doing a Kickstarter for C&C content for FG. We as the player base would fund first a full update of the C&C PHB rules to the latest color printing with tokens. Stretch goals being provided for M&T and the CKG. While they are all quite functional now, updating it all to a similar functionality as the D&D 5e Ruleset with drop and drag class race features, etc. would be worth it.

Then perhaps fund Kickstarters for a series of TLG modules. And any future TLG Kickstarter should have an FG Ruleset fund goal.

Thoughts?

[Talyn]

I do wonder if Troll Lord Games and Smite Works would consider doing a Kickstarter for C&C content for FG.


Offhand I'd say some money along the lines of what WotC did (and that's just an assumption on my part, who knows what they did for 5E here on FG and the other official platforms?) plus 5E alone is a massive percentage of the overall sales and games played here on FG, which is why it gets the level of support it does. I'd love for some ruleset updates, which is beyond my capacity right now to help with.

As for content, that's in the purview of we users who step forward to be community developers in our spare time. So, what... a Kickstarter to basically bribe someone to focus all their spare time to work exclusively on C&C content? :p

I have no dates or ETA for any of these but my current C&C list is (in no particular order):

U1 - U4 modules (currently 80% (estimated) complete with U1)
The Outpost
Player's Guide to Aihrde
Update Player's Handbook to 6th printing (if I'm allowed to; I haven't asked yet) in Reference Manual format
Player's Guide and Castle Keeper's Guide to the Haunted Highlands (maybe, these are big...)
Gaxmoor

[dr_venture]

Just a little background: I was working with a previous developer on a major update of the C&C ruleset, but that developer disappeared unexpectedly and the ruleset was abandoned. I took up the task to try to get the ruleset to a releasable state, but was having loads of problems. Eventually Moon stepped in abd did a complete revamp of C&C to be layered onto the CoreRPG ruleset. So in a sense, C&C is in maintenance mode, but that is because the underlying C&C mechanics don't change much/at all, but the C&C ruleset picks up all the changes that Smiteworks puts into the CoreRPG ruleset, as well as most of the CoreRPG extensions... which is a lot!

I've been out of the loop for a while, but as far as I'm aware (and please do correct me if I'm wrong), I believe what the C&C ruleset is most in need of is updated core modules to keep up with the ongoing TLG releases, and more modules to make supplemental material available. For instance, that Castles & Crusades Adventurers Backpack Kickstarter project really, really needs to be wrapped into a new module.

I suppose there may be some optional rules introduced in the GMs Guide and the Castles & Crusades Adventurers Backpack that might warrant changes and/or new options to handle, but those should be relatively simple to implement, as the lion's share of the work has already been done for us by Moonwiz.

[Talyn]

Yes, I've spoken with Ben "phantomwhale" about things, and he was expecting to be more hands-on with C&C but has been unable to do so with Life and his other projects so I think as of a week or two ago, he's back off the project and no one (other than Moon Wizard) is running the ruleset itself. I don't own every FG product for C&C yet but I'm already curious if things need to be added for some of the projects on my list or not.

Main thing I'd like to see from an ease-of-use perspective is spellcasting.

[damned]

Main thing I'd like to see from an ease-of-use perspective is spellcasting.

The difference between what there is now and what there is in 5e is massive in terms of programming effort.
I dont believe (Im far from sure on this) that the CnC iteration is any different to 3.5e/Pathfinders?

[JohnD]

The difference between what there is now and what there is in 5e is massive in terms of programming effort.
I dont believe (Im far from sure on this) that the CnC iteration is any different to 3.5e/Pathfinders?

Yeah it isn't as robust as those. You can't assign damage, effects or saves to any spell.

[Talyn]

Tell ya what, I kinda wish CoreRPG had all the basics that pretty much all the rulesets use for spellcasting. Damage, Effects, Heal, Saving Throws, etc. that way everything just worked without requiring you and your players to have a PHD in macro fiddling.

[Trenloe]

Tell ya what, I kinda wish CoreRPG had all the basics that pretty much all the rulesets use for spellcasting. Damage, Effects, Heal, Saving Throws, etc. that way everything just worked without requiring you and your players to have a PHD in macro fiddling.
CoreRPG is meant to be a generic platform - a base for many, many, many RPG system. These myriad systems do "stuff" differently - like spells, effects, damage, healing, saving throws (if the RPG system even has them), etc., etc., etc.. Basically, stuff like this can't be put in CoreRPG because it is too specific to a certain RPG system.

[Myrdin Potter]

I have lua books now and I used to program a lot when I was younger and had not so fully committed to the ways of the accounting gods. I plan on looking at examples in the 3.5 and PF rules and working through some of the code. We all know the money and interest is in 5e. I am seeing the pattern as clear as night and day in 3PP Kickstarters now. They used to do PF as the main system and then convert to 5e. Kobold Press is doing a demon cults book now on KS and they easily got the 333 people needed to do 5e in hard cover and are struggling to top 200 for PF. Part of that is because there are so many books out for PF now and almost nothing for 5e, but part of that is the real market clout for D&D.

The other rule sets here are real labors of love and they only look lacking compared to 5e. Old style D&D is very niche and a good VTT implementation is important to find players. 5e can be challenging to find physical groups to play in once you graduate from school, smaller games is even harder.

I will try and help people working on code. My strongest skill has always been finding bugs and testing (which is why I went into auditing 30+ years ago). I also have a really high tolerance for boring and repetitive tasks like cutting and pasting from PDF to populate reference books. So if anyone is working on a project and needs help in that, let me know.

[Mortar]

Just as a quick update, I have finished the conversion of Expanding Classes, it includes both the library format we are used to using and includes a full complete refmanual section. At the the suggestion of both JohnD and damnedI will adding links to the class for the abilities, and making entries so the new supporting sub-classes appear under the classes sidebar button for increased ease of use. A couple more days and I will have this done.

[Talyn]

Good deal! By the way, Moon Wizard updated the Lua for refmanuals a couple weeks ago so you can name them now.

I submitted the remaster of CS1 After Winter's Dark a couple days ago. I realized afterward that, it's "done" but I totally forgot to add the keywords for the search feature. Not sure if they're going to go ahead and put it up then let me patch it later or just wait on me to do the keywords. Because I'm not looking forward to that. I loathe fooling around with keywords. I wish I had a Notepad++ plugin that would handle it in one stop but I have to use two or three different websites to do it. For each page.

U1 remaster is almost done too. I thought I'd have all four U modules done by now LOL.

[JohnD]

Just as a quick update, I have finished the conversion of Expanding Classes, it includes both the library format we are used to using and includes a full complete refmanual section. At the the suggestion of both JohnD and damnedI will adding links to the class for the abilities, and making entries so the new supporting sub-classes appear under the classes sidebar button for increased ease of use. A couple more days and I will have this done.

Looking forward to adding this to my sizeable C&C FG library.

[Talyn]

Proof! :p I think all I have left to do on U1 is place the markers on the maps then decide if I want to build the entire adventure (Story) section of the module in the refmanual or just leave that the GM Prep bits...

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=16593&stc=1&d=1480042591

[Mortar]

Looking at a recently added 5e module it has no refmanual in it at all. Straight up story entries.

[Talyn]

I know, almost everything is Story entries. I hate that. I have a really hard time reading things when they're in a single little window that I have to open, then close. Especially Savage Worlds stuff, but I'm not a fan of it as an overall practice.

Zacc's 5E modules use ref manuals for the GM Prep stuff but no Story. When I did Jericho Rose, I put the entire adventure in the refmanual so it was playable both there and in the Story pages. Right now I only have GM Prep stuff in the refmanual and I might leave it that way to see if it gets a response. Which it won't because there's no commentary/ratings for the Store Content...

[GunbunnyFuFu]

This brings up a question I've had..what does one do in order to become a community developer? I'm rather enjoying coding up the XML for the Savage Rifts stuff, and figure that any experience I can get would make me better at it!

Chris/GB

[Talyn]

Just send an email to [email protected] and let Doug know what project you want to work on. He and James will handle getting you set up in the system.

Oh, and I'm sure you're already aware that Savage Rifts is off the table for FG? :/

[GunbunnyFuFu]

Absolutely aware that it is so. Part of the reason why I converted the stuff for my own use...I was shocked that Palladium gave the OK for Pinnacle to do Savage Rifts. I don't forsee it happening again!

[Talyn]

Oh, I dunno, it definitely been a boon for both systems. It's just that the license agreement Palladium gave was for PDFs only -- no other electronic format, which excludes FG.

[GunbunnyFuFu]

I agree it's been a boon for both systems...Just look how much $ the Kickstarter brought in. I think that having SR for FG is a win-win for both...Palladium gets a part of the profits (I imagine) for little or no work. Community developers develop it for FG, Smiteworks gets a part of the profits as well. We can always hope that the OK is given!

GB

[Varsuuk]

I know, almost everything is Story entries. I hate that. I have a really hard time reading things when they're in a single little window that I have to open, then close. Especially Savage Worlds stuff, but I'm not a fan of it as an overall practice.

Zacc's 5E modules use ref manuals for the GM Prep stuff but no Story. When I did Jericho Rose, I put the entire adventure in the refmanual so it was playable both there and in the Story pages. Right now I only have GM Prep stuff in the refmanual and I might leave it that way to see if it gets a response. Which it won't because there's no commentary/ratings for the Store Content...

I REALLY like to be able to read it in as close to "PDF" format as feasible for the module creators. I still generally buy PDFs of things available, (usually grab on sale like now) but I like to not have to open multiple things if I can.

[Talyn]

The Pathfinder sandboxy adventure I got last night on FG also put the entire adventure text in a refmanual. Oddly there are no credits so I can't stalk the guy who stole my idea! LOL

Ok, I'll look into putting all of U1 in the refmanual. Putting the adventure text in is largely copy/paste except for a couple items plus checking if some frame blocks are needed for images and sidebars.

[damned]

Ive made several adventure modules for my own use in Par5e.
I dont see an issue with it so long as you can get linking working.

[Mortar]

Ha...necroing my own thread. I know Talyn just submitted a CnC conversion, but I though I would post here that aw well that Expanding Classes has been submitted.

[Talyn]

Awesome! James is going to be busy reviewing the next few weeks. :) Anyway guys, I submitted the 2015 module The Outpost for levels 1-3 last night. The U1 remaster I'm expecting to have finished within the next week or two (yeah I told myself that a couple months ago LOL). The CS1 remaster will be finished just as soon as I can motivate myself to generate the keywords...

More coming after that!

[Talyn]

Aaaand just submitted the remaster to CS1 After Winter's Dark: The World of Aihrde campaign setting.

Those keywords... omg that took literally all day sitting here at the hotel doing nothing but keywords for this...
I'm having a drink when I get home tomorrow night! lol

[Varsuuk]

sorry for my ignorance, but what they hey ;) does generating the keywords mean/entail?

[Mortar]

With the refmanual format there is a <keyword> tag where you enter the keywords for each page to help with the search function. I have never actually used the search in the game so I can't tell you how will it works.

It was a bit of a PITA to get the keyword generation all done. Par5e, I have been told, will do it but it uses every word on a given page. Talyn used 2 different websites to help him do the work - stripping out xml and then copy/paste into the first to strip out punctuation - then copy/paste into the second to get the keywords.

Ikael's SW Enhanced Library will do it for you (and very quickly too)

Out of everything I have done with module conversion/creation so far it is by far the worst part of the process, and the most time consuming.

[Mortar]

The two minor fixes James wanted done with the Expanding Classes mod have finally been sent back to him (yeah, I know...I got side tracked for a little bit)

[Talyn]

I submitted my U1 remaster a week or two ago. Right now I'm doing a Weird Wars 2 adventure for Savage Worlds, then I'll be finishing up the U-series and Giant's Rapture (unless I decide to shift that one to later). Somewhere in the mix will be the remaster for Monsters & Treasure of Aihrde (I have the 2nd printing remaster done, I just need to add the 3rd printing stuff into it and make some totally new organization because now they've split it into Monsters and Animals each have their own categories).

Take your time on the CKG remaster, I haven't touched the PHB or M&T in quite awhile so I'm no further along on those than the last time we talked about it. Ideally if we can submit them together so C&C gets one massive free update instead of three piecemeal ones, that'd be cool.

[Mortar]

As Talyn pointed out to me lsst night: *cough* Check the store**cough*

[Talyn]

I'm kinda wishing each ruleset forum had a sticky thread like [RULESET] DLC Updates & Feedback... but anyway, since there isn't:

I just uploaded a patch for U1:

Fixed 2 NPCs whose special abilities were not displaying
Added average attributes "10" to all NPCs who originally had no specified attributes.
Added spell links to the two scroll items, and to NPCs with spell-like abilities.


The ruleset itself was recently updated so all new character NPCs get default "10" to attributes, that's why I made that change. Before, NPCs just had blank attributes.

[Mortar]

I'm kinda wishing each ruleset forum had a sticky thread like [RULESET] DLC Updates & Feedback... but anyway, since there isn't:

I just uploaded a patch for U1:

Fixed 2 NPCs whose special abilities were not displaying
Added average attributes "10" to all NPCs who originally had no specified attributes.
Added spell links to the two scroll items, and to NPCs with spell-like abilities.


The ruleset itself was recently updated so all new character NPCs get default "10" to attributes, that's why I made that change. Before, NPCs just had blank attributes.

You know you could have started your own thread for this though :p

[Talyn]

I could but since I'm the guy who bitches about umpteen bazillion threads around here about the same thing, it'd be a little hypocritical of me to go making my own umpteen bazillion threads. :)

[Mortar]

Means my threads are better ::ninja: