How to add NPCs to the party

[Brewin]

I'm sure this has been asked (I've searched for an answer with no success) so apologies for duplication...

I've struggled to figure this out ever since I've been running 5e on FG. I can add an allied NPC to the combat tracker sure, but unless I recreate that NPC with a PC sheet (which takes time) I cannot add them to the party sheet, and thus I cannot split money and xp evenly between PCs and allied NPCs.

Is there no way to do this aside from re-creating the NPC as a PC? (or am I just stupid?) And if not, would this be something you think could be added to the forthcoming unity revamp of FG? (I can add it to the wish list of features but wondered first if this is something that's gunna be worth asking for since I understand that NPC and PC sheets are quite different and may need to remain so - which would be problematic for such a feature). That said, this is the second-most important feature for me aside from dynamic line-of-sight stuff since I can find easy-enough workarounds for everything else I've tried to do...

[JohnD]

For NPCs that are going to adventure as quasi-PCs, I make them up as PCs in the manner you mention.

I agree it would be nice to be able to add an NPC into the Party Sheet, but I have no idea how hard a programming change that would be.

[LordEntrails]

You can always check to see if the idea has already been suggested here https://fg2app.idea.informer.com/ and if nit add it yourself.

[Brewin]

You can always check to see if the idea has already been suggested here https://fg2app.idea.informer.com/ and if nit add it yourself.

I did go through the list (at least as far as those with just the one vote) and couldn't see it there, so will add it now... Even just a clunky solution of being able to specify the number of additional npcs to split gp and xp among in the party sheet (without them being linked to anything) would save a lot of time...

EDIT: Now added - https://fg2app.idea.informer.com/proj/?ia=105443

[Andraax]

Hint - you don't need a full character sheet for the NPC. Just a character sheet with the NPC's name, maybe a portrait (if they're going to stand watches), and any equipment they're carrying is all that is needed for the Party sheet. Log in once between sessions with a name that no one else is using and take ownership of the character, so no one else can pick it up. Shouldn't take you more than 5 minutes to set this up, and you're done.

[Brewin]

Hint - you don't need a full character sheet for the NPC. Just a character sheet with the NPC's name, maybe a portrait (if they're going to stand watches), and any equipment they're carrying is all that is needed for the Party sheet. Log in once between sessions with a name that no one else is using and take ownership of the character, so no one else can pick it up. Shouldn't take you more than 5 minutes to set this up, and you're done.

Hmmm that still sounds like a lot more work than it should be (5 minutes to add in their equipment I suspect is optimistic)... The solution for now is basically to recreate the NPC as a PC (thanks for confirming everyone) but still, I'd *really* like to be able to simply add an NPC to the party sheet in future with a single drag-and-drop or at least by using a "number of allied npcs" setting in the party sheet, so that the user doesn't have to do additional work...

What's more the current solution assumes that the GM had forewarning (and time of course) to set this up in advance. What if it's unexpected that an NPC decided to join the party for a time? You know, like you're improvising the story as you go along, and after a couple of good rolls, the party convinced a given NPC to join them? The current solution can't address this (without pausing the session while the GM sets the NPC up as a PC).

[damned]

Brewin you can set up a full 5e character with equipment and spells in 5mins if you lknow what they want... however - if a NPC joins the party and you feel the need to award them XP (or more accurately reduce the XP being awarded to the players) just change the XP of the Encounter. It takes 4 secs if your math is good and 14 if you need to open Calculator.
It is not a trivial change to allow NPCs to be added to the Party Sheet. They are not PCs, they dont have PCs data structures and the Party Sheet is setup to handle the PCs data structures. For example you might notice the NPCs do not even have an EXP field.... Why not? Because the MM and other Wizards material doesnt list any EXP values for NPCs or Monsters.

[Brewin]

All valid points Damned... basically what I have been doing is changing gp / xp allocations on the fly (like you suggest), and simply having the npc stay in the combat tracker as a friendly npc... Take your point about it being hard to come up with a better solution given the differing structure of the pc vs npc sheets (I just wish it wasn't so haha, cos it is a pain to have to manage this, but then so is doing it manually in tabletop too I suppose)

[damned]

We all game differently so it is hard to have the tools accommodate everyones play styles. I dont think you are the first to mention this one but I also dont think its likely to be high on a *fix* list because of the points above. I dont even award XP when I GM - I just level up at milestones so the party is at an appropriate level. There is also another recent thread where someone wanted to be able to use the Party Sheet to award XP to an individual player - Trenloe wrote an extension to do that but that was easier as it is still using the existing Party Sheet and PC framework and database structures.
It doesnt hurt to throw ideas around - you get feedback, ideas, work-arounds, rtfms - and sometimes you do even get what you want on a silver embossed dragon scale serving platter :)

[Brewin]

sometimes you do even get what you want on a silver embossed dragon scale serving platter :)

Whoa... you mean there's an extension for that!? That sounds awesome! ;)

But seriously thanks for entertaining my pipe dreams... I should know what it's like trying to develop things for users (best you can hope for is to please most people most of the time haha)

[Zacchaeus]

The big problem with this one is that the architecture of the NPC sheet is radically different from the PC sheet so even if the NPC could be added to the Party sheet XP wouldn't get awarded becasue there isn't anywhere to put it on an NPC sheet.

I have to agree with damned and Andraax here; it's pretty easy to create a PC in 5 minutes using drag/drop if it isn't a full blown PC. You don't need everything. Additionally you could just skip giving the NPC XP and just level them up when the players do.

[Andraax]

I have a set of "standard packs" for equipment that I have setup (I give my players the option of choosing one of them for standard costs). Adding equipment to NPCs setup as PCs is as simple as choosing one of the standard packs and dragging and dropping it onto the character sheet's equipment tab. Actually with my setup, I could probably create 5 or 6 NPCs this way in 5 minutes (and that includes the time it takes to run a name generator to give them a name)...

The standard packs are great for one shots - the players pick a character template, pick a pack of equipment, I drop the pack onto the empty character sheet, *voila* custom character is ready to go.

[Brewin]

I have a set of "standard packs" for equipment that I have setup...
That sounds like a great idea to fast-track creating PCs/NPCs as PCs... Thanks for the tip!

And yes it looks like I'll just have to manage without this functionality even with the forthcoming version... I'll live ;) But hey, thanks for your responses all, even if it wasn't the answer I was hoping for!

[Trenloe]

Log in once between sessions with a name that no one else is using and take ownership of the character, so no one else can pick it up.
If you're adding NPCs as PCs on the fly you can take control as the GM using this extension (for FG v3.1.7): https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?28728-GM-PC-Ownership-Extension This avoids you having to log in as a dummy player to "take control" of (N)PCs and stop the players seeing them in the Character Selection window. In the up coming FG v3.2.0 this functionality is built in, no need for an extension.

[Zacchaeus]

Also in v 3.2 the DM can take control of a PC without have to do the second instance and log in thing :)

[Trenloe]

Also in v 3.2 the DM can take control of a PC without have to do the second instance and log in thing :)
Kinda what I said in the post immediately above. :p

[Mask_of_winter]

Someone could ask Ikael since this feature has been part of the Savage Worlds ruleset for a while now. An NPC can be dropped in the Party sheet and in another PC's sheet.

[Zacchaeus]

Kinda what I said in the post immediately above. :p

Oops misread your post


Someone could ask Ikael since this feature has been part of the Savage Worlds ruleset for a while now. An NPC can be dropped in the Party sheet and in another PC's sheet.

Kinda what Trenloe said in the post above :)

[Trenloe]

Someone could ask Ikael since this feature has been part of the Savage Worlds ruleset for a while now. An NPC can be dropped in the Party sheet and in another PC's sheet.
The Savage Worlds PC and NPC records are a lot more aligned (data wise) than d20 based ruleset records. There is a lot of complex data in d20 based systems: individual attacks with their own attack bonuses and damage, spells, abilities/feats, inventory, etc. that are coded differently in the two records and would all need potentially very complex coding to make the NPC to PC migration complete.

Sure, it "could" be done...

[Brewin]

If you're adding NPCs as PCs on the fly you can take control as the GM using this extension (for FG v3.1.7): https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?28728-GM-PC-Ownership-Extension This avoids you having to log in as a dummy player to "take control" of (N)PCs and stop the players seeing them in the Character Selection window. In the up coming FG v3.2.0 this functionality is built in, no need for an extension.

Thanks, I'll look into using this extension (just need to check it's not gunna break any of the other extensions I'm using). I don't suppose anyone has a rough idea of when v3.2.0 will be released (as in have completed the beta testing phase)?

[Nylanfs]

Soon(TM) (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RealSoonNow)

[mr900rr]

Saw this thread while looking for something else and thought i would take a stab at it, I know its an old thread but hopefully the OP is still around and can use this. So this extension lets you put NPC's that are local, meaning they are not from a module but stored in the campaign DB file, you can open a NPC from a module then drag the link over to the local NPC tab "new" and from there drag them into the Party Sheet. The NPC's edit "lock" must be locked to drag it over, and once in the party sheet changes to the NPC don't take effect till you relock it. You can split coin and xp with the NPC and it will store it but you wont be able to access it once its on the NPC, you can change how much coin an NPC shows as having in the party sheet inventory by editing the "Treasure" field in the NPC sheet by using this syntax, ( ;+GP 5, -SP 10, =CP 19 etc.."in this example you would add 5 GP to what the NPC already had subtract 10 silver from NPC and set the NPCs CP to 19 overridding what ever value was there before" ) this can be after the treasure types as long as its separated by the semicolon. You cant give items to the NPC and I dont have languages or classes in there as I don't know how to do that yet, the CR will be the level and Type will be the race. This replace alot of the PS files and is a work in progress.

Ya know I just noticed this was a 5E thread HAHA, oh well maybe someone can adjust the code to work in 5E or get an idea from it.
Hey how do I link this to the 3.5E forum?

Noticed a glitch in the coin section gonna work on fixing that.
Ok fixed the coin glitch.

[Brewin]

Thanks mr900rr, but yeah I'm (still) running a 5e campaign, and doing things on the fly and/or adding in NPCs as PCs when time allows (which is not always)... Everything I said (about wishing for this feature one day) still stands, but I'll manage in the meantime (no choice right?) even if that's indefinitely (as I suspect it is)...

[mr900rr]

Ill take a look at the 5E code and see if its vastly different, maybe I can convert it.

[damned]

This quite basic extension still awards XP to NPCs but keeps the calculation correct for the rest of the party.
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?33812-Basic-XP-Party-Sheet-Extension&p=286770
It will work with fractions.
The NPC will still actually receive the same XP as the PCs but the PCs share wont be diminshed.

[mr900rr]

Cool, Brewin does that do what you are looking for, if so ill stop working on the conversion of mine, although I have found that 90% of the code is the same between 3.5 and 5 in the PS files. Im gonna go ahead with the conversion I am about 95% done, just need to separate the senses and passive perception and figure out the HD, so should have that done any day.

[Brewin]

This quite basic extension still awards XP to NPCs but keeps the calculation correct for the rest of the party.
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?33812-Basic-XP-Party-Sheet-Extension&p=286770
Thanks Damned, if I understand correctly I will indeed be able to use this to solve my problem - even though it's not in the way the example shows.

In my case (assuming I understand correctly) I have let's say 5 PCs and 1 NPC. The NPC isn't created as a PC (at least initially anyway) and so isn't displayed on the party sheet where you allocate XP. But simply by putting in a "1" into the "No XP" field, then it should divide by 6 (5 PCs + the NPC), rather than 5 (for just the 5 PCs), when calculating the XP allocations... If I put in a "2" say then it would be dividing XP by 7 (5 PCs + 2 NPCs). Is that correct?

If so, then that will work yes... I don't suppose there was a similar available solution for the allocation of coins? (Okay if not, since that's a rare thing - if an NPC is around long enough to share in treasure, then they're around long enough for me to create a PC for them that is GM-controlled).

[damned]

Thanks Damned, if I understand correctly I will indeed be able to use this to solve my problem - even though it's not in the way the example shows.

In my case (assuming I understand correctly) I have let's say 5 PCs and 1 NPC. The NPC isn't created as a PC (at least initially anyway) and so isn't displayed on the party sheet where you allocate XP. But simply by putting in a "1" into the "No XP" field, then it should divide by 6 (5 PCs + the NPC), rather than 5 (for just the 5 PCs), when calculating the XP allocations... If I put in a "2" say then it would be dividing XP by 7 (5 PCs + 2 NPCs). Is that correct?

If so, then that will work yes... I don't suppose there was a similar available solution for the allocation of coins? (Okay if not, since that's a rare thing - if an NPC is around long enough to share in treasure, then they're around long enough for me to create a PC for them that is GM-controlled).

I havent done anything for coins. But yes that is basically how it works.

This actually does it the other way so is not what you are after - this is not diluting the amount of XP the PCs receive whereas you want to dilute their XP.

[damned]

I havent done anything for coins. But yes that is basically how it works.

This actually does it the other way so is not what you are after - this is not diluting the amount of XP the PCs receive whereas you want to dilute their XP.

Actually - it accepts negative numbers too... so if you had 2 NPCs that were not in the party sheet and you wanted to assign them an equal slice of XP you would add -2 in the No XP field and it would split the XP by PCs+2.

[mr900rr]

Ok so here is the 5E conversion of the extension, you cant alter the coins the NPC has as there is no "Treasure tab like a 3.5E NPC has so I will have to find a way to make that work.

[mr900rr]

And so I made this one for those who don't want the NPC to Party Sheet and find it to tedious to make their NPC on a Character sheet. You again have to have the NPC in the local campaign database as you have to be able to edit it (the lock button top right) then scroll all the way to the bottom of your NPC and you will see a text entry box and a button. The text field allows you to put in a name you want to be the owner of the created PC, if you enter nothing it defaults to makePC, that way players wont see the character in the character selection window, but you could also put a players name so that they could control say a wolf or something they have charmed. The button does the conversion and opens up the PC sheet, now its a work in progress and some things I am not sure I will be able to convert all the way but it will do about 80% or more of the work for you. Please let me know if it has any problems with certain NPC's as I have not been able to test it on them all, and also the formatting of the NPC must follow exactly how they are in the 5E Basic Rules.

Fixed: Ranged Weapons were showing up with Melee icon.
Fixed: Weapons that had "Melee or Ranged" only putting in one entry, and added check for heal dice in spells and innate spells.
Fixed: Attacks that had 2 damage types , was only grabbing one.
Fixed: Truesight wasn't getting captured.

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24096

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24097

[Bidmaron]

You put a link to this in the PF forum. Did you make your extension work for CoreRPG?

[mr900rr]

I made it for 3.5E which shares with PF and I also made it for 5E, put the link here for others like me who use both 3.5E and 5E so they could see the other useful extensions listed in the thread. I will have to check if it works with CoreRPG alone I know most of the files it replaces are in CoreRPG. It doesnt work in CoreRPG but I dont think it would be hard to make a version that did.

[damned]

Most of the reason for putting NPCs in the Party Sheet was for XP and CoreRPG doesnt have the XP tab.

[mr900rr]

Yeah very true don't see what the need would be for it in CoreRPG.

[Brewin]

So I finally got to having a look at this, but it seems it doesn't work with the latest FG update? (I don't see the "No XP" option on the XP tab of the Party Sheet in 5e)...

No rush to reply, it's taken me like 6 weeks to look at this after all, but it'd be useful for me if/when you get time (and hopefully others too!)

[mr900rr]

Ok ill take a look and see if I cant get that fixed pronto, I haven't been on FG in a week or so, half my town got evacuated due to a fire.Oh wait "No XP"? you must be talking about the extension Damned posted not mine lol.

[Brewin]

I haven't been on FG in a week or so, half my town got evacuated due to a fire.
Holy cow. Stay safe dude and focus on the things that matter (fixing an extension for a stranger for a game surely does not compared to this!) Hope things are ok over there, or will be, I hear those fires in California (where I'm guessing you are?) are pretty bad right now and will continue for some weeks yet :(

[dastels]

First, hope you’re ok. Second, I just hit a spot near the end of Rise of the Runelords where I want to add a NPC/hostile to the party. I found this thread while looking for options and it seems perfect. Any update?

[Broadcast Bard]

Script Error: [string "ps/scripts/converter_npc.lua"]:226: attempt to compare nil with number

I get this with some of the NPC's I have

[Scuba72]

In FGU DnD 5E there is no need for an extension currently or to create a PC sheet for an NPC.
All you need to do is add an empty PC sheet to the party sheet before distributing XP and loot. You do not need to fill out stats or anything.
I just tested it myself with an empty sheet which I named Test NPC, which is the only modification I made to the otherwise empty sheet.
I didnt even bother adding a portrait or token.
That being said, I have no experience with any other system or even FGC.

[Mysteria_Sdrassa]

yes.. all you need is an empty character sheet... maybe a name if you want.. but that's it... you can pop it into the party sheet when you want to divy up gold etc, and remove it quickly if you want to give the PCs all the experience

[Noelus]

Hi
Really helpful extension but I get an error on the console when starting up with 5e NPC to PC extension enabled. It states "Unable to locate extension file. [5e NPC to PC] [ps/template_ps.xml]". However the extension still appears to work. Do you have any idea how I can get rid of this error?

[Noelus]

Hi
Really helpful extension but I get an error on the console when starting up with 5e NPC to PC extension enabled. It states "Unable to locate extension file. [5e NPC to PC] [ps/template_ps.xml]". However the extension still appears to work. Do you have any idea how I can get rid of this error?

Just wondering if anyone else has this error and if so have you managed to resolve it?

[Zacchaeus]

The author of the extension hasn't been around for a while. It no longer works from what I can see on this thread.