Saving Throw Bonus from Ring of Protection and the like

[twseifert]

So my character recently acquired a ring of protection. Is there a way to add a miscellaneous bonus modifier to a Saving Throw, from items like a Ring of Protection? If not how do you all handle such effects in FG gameS?

[Kontroar]

You could apply an effect that adds a +1 to all saves. The format would be as follows:

SAVE: 1

If you add the item on the actions tab, you can set it up with additional information as well. Such as, add an effect that applies to [SELF]. In the event it was removed from the tracker, you can simply click that on the action tab and have it reapply.

You could also completely include all effects of the ring as follows:

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This would provide the AC bonus in addition to the Saving Throw bonus.

[twseifert]

thanks I think I got it to work as an effect properly. This will work in the "short" term, but would love to see an update to FG, in which you can add permanent modifiers to Saving Throws.

[LordEntrails]

thanks I think I got it to work as an effect properly. This will work in the "short" term, but would love to see an update to FG, in which you can add permanent modifiers to Saving Throws.
Check here to see if the suggestion has already been made: fg2app.idea.informer.com
If not, add your suggestion so that SW can track it.

[Trenloe]

...but would love to see an update to FG, in which you can add permanent modifiers to Saving Throws.
Hover the mouse over the saving throw entry on the character sheet and use CTRL+Mousewheel to add a permanent bonus (or penalty) to a saving throw. you'll see a little bubble in the top right of the saving throw box showing the permanent bonus being applied.

[damned]

thanks I think I got it to work as an effect properly. This will work in the "short" term, but would love to see an update to FG, in which you can add permanent modifiers to Saving Throws.

Im not sure why you would consider this the short term fix and want to adjust the Saves permanently... what happens if the character loses the ring or acquires two better rings and removes it? Will you remember how/why that +1 was there or what it came from. The Effect as described by Kontroar is typically the best way to do it for this type of thing otherwise do as Trenloe suggests.
Of course there are lots of ways to do things so choose the one that works best for you :)

[twseifert]

Check here to see if the suggestion has already been made: fg2app.idea.informer.com
If not, add your suggestion so that SW can track it.

Created an account there, but can't figure out how to add this suggestion.

[twseifert]

I guess I sdidn't really mean to use the term "Short term", but you are right, is is a good work around, though if the DM clears all effects, it gets cleared so it is possible to forget to turn it back on...

[damned]

The challenge with coding all these things as automatic is that every rule in D&D has exceptions and some of the exceptions even have exceptions. So automating stuff in the first place becomes incredibly complex and then it also starts to remove your ability to house-rule stuff as well. The current solutions dont cover every situation but they do cover a lot of situations which is mostly what they are trying to do.
The AppInformer website can be a little tricky...

[Myrdin Potter]

Examples like this are why I think that FG is both great and terrible at the same time. You can set a permanent saving throw adjustment, which is great, but why is it set by hovering and turning a scroll wheel?

The program would do much better with controls that open up that can be set with a standard interface and a text comment added.

The rolls then can be more detailed when displayed in the chat window to remind you of what was sent.

[Trenloe]

Examples like this are why I think that FG is both great and terrible at the same time. You can set a permanent saving throw adjustment, which is great, but why is it set by hovering and turning a scroll wheel?
Interface minimisation - if you see a little plus sign in the top right of a field it means you can quickly apply a modifier that is then shown in a little bubble. Documented in "Temporary Modifiers" here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/wiki/index.php/The_Basics#Number_Fields I like it, quick and easy.


The program would do much better with controls that open up that can be set with a standard interface and a text comment added.
I'd recommend you add your request to the Wishlist: https://fg2app.idea.informer.com/

[BubbaGrim]

I'm about to resurrect this almost dead thread, if I give a player a buff that is AC:1. His effective AC is one greater, although it doesn't show up on his character sheet, I thought that combat tracker took this in to account when it rolled for damage
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Am I missing something or can this not be done with a buff?

[Trenloe]

Effects don't modify base scores on the character sheet or combat tracker. They trigger when an appropriate action (roll) is made and are taken into account then. https://www.fantasygrounds.com/wiki/index.php/5E_Effects#What_is_an_Effect.3F

[BubbaGrim]

Okay, then in the picture I attached the roll of 15 should miss Krudd because his effective AC is 16

[Trenloe]

Are you fully updated to v3.2.2? (i.e. both CoreRPG and 5E show v3.2.2 in the chat window)

Are you running any extensions?

[BubbaGrim]

I just removed all of my extensions and now it works as expected. I'll now go back and add them one by one until I track the culprit down.

Thanks so much for your time :)

Edit:

Okay the bad actor was the extension "5E Manual Attack". I knew that it was obsolete as of 3.2 but had kept it around to "fudge" dice rolls if I ever needed to

[Bruxy]

When you toggle armour and shields between worn and carried from the inventory panel, your AC changes accordingly. Could this functionality not be exploited for something like a Ring of Protection?

[Zacchaeus]

When you toggle armour and shields between worn and carried from the inventory panel, your AC changes accordingly. Could this functionality not be exploited for something like a Ring of Protection?

I assume not so easily. The armour and shield are designated as armour so I assume FG knows this and then looks to adjust the AC. A ring is not armour so it wouldn't impact on the AC calculation. The only way it could be done would probably be to make a ring of protection an item of armour which would mess things up elsewhere. So, in short, not as easy as it sounds.

[Myrdin Potter]

Reading my comment from months ago, I can say I have seen the program make leaps and bounds improvement in a pretty short time in making more standard controls to change and enter data. The categories are the area that got the biggest change (no more type in chat and drag it to name a category, for example) but lots of other changes.

I, of course, am also much better at using the program ...

I am hoping that magic items get another go through and the parser be augmented to pick them up and automate more and more of them. If I were to prioritize, I would do all the magic items in the WoTC modules, starting with LMoP.

A ring of protection is a very common item and if an effect can be built, automation should be eventually possible.

[Bruxy]

Did some fiddling of my own (for science): Creating the RoP as an armour item with appropriate buffs just overwrites the existing armour rather than adding to it. And here I thought I was being clever :(

Chainmail + Shield + RoP definitely should not equal AC9!

[Zacchaeus]

I think your problem is that the armour calculation will only take account of one armour and one shield. So the ring is possibly overriding the armour and if you gave the ring a type of armour which the PC wasn't proficient with the calculation won't be correct.

[Full Bleed]

How about Mage Armor? Considering that a character is not wearing armor when using it... would creating Mage Armor be a good option? Right now we're using a spell effect in a game I'm in... but I hate that the AC does not reflect on the Character Sheet and I have to just *assume* it's working as expected when I can't see the rolls being used against me.

[JohnD]

How about Mage Armor? Considering that a character is not wearing armor when using it... would creating Mage Armor be a good option? Right now we're using a spell effect in a game I'm in... but I hate that the AC does not reflect on the Character Sheet and I have to just *assume* it's working as expected when I can't see the rolls being used against me.

You should be able to see the affect on your character in the CT.

[damned]

How about Mage Armor? Considering that a character is not wearing armor when using it... would creating Mage Armor be a good option? Right now we're using a spell effect in a game I'm in... but I hate that the AC does not reflect on the Character Sheet and I have to just *assume* it's working as expected when I can't see the rolls being used against me.

Just adjust your AC then. Thats perfectly ok. You can apply an Effect to you that just says Ring of Protection but without any mechanical effects.

[Full Bleed]

You should be able to see the affect on your character in the CT.
Yes, I do. But there is still a discrepancy between what's on the Character Sheet and my actual AC. I don't like discrepancies. When I look at my AC on my Character Sheet I'd like it to reflect what my actual AC is. Not look at it, then look at the Combat Tracker, and do some math. I find that to be counter-intuitive.



Just adjust your AC then. Thats perfectly ok. You can apply an Effect to you that just says Ring of Protection but without any mechanical effects.

So you're saying: 1) Manually modify the Character Sheet AC and 2) Create/activate a blank effect to run that would indicate that I manually edited my CS and go back and manually edit the CS again after the spell wears off?

Not exactly what I was hoping for...

I did go ahead and create a "Mage Armor" equip-able Armor... but I don't know if there is some potential downside that I'm not considering. As noted earlier by Bruxy, creating an armor item called Ring of Protection won't work because it conflicts with other armor slot items. But Mage Armor can not be used with Armor... so that won't be a problem. I created a Mage Armor item from Leather Armor as a base, removed the subtype "Light Armor" (since the caster isn't proficient with light armor), set the AC to 13, included Dex bonus, lowered the weight to 0... and equipping it seemed to work fine (i.e. proper AC is reflected on my CS). I'd still have to create a blank Combat Tracker effect and equip and un-equip the armor though... don't see a way to have a spell equip or un-equip an item for a single click solution.

I guess I'm with Myrdin when they said:


I am hoping that magic items get another go through and the parser be augmented to pick them up and automate more and more of them.

[Zacchaeus]

Creating an armour item for spells and rings of protection is way more complicated than simply adding an effect which stays on the PC. Whilst your AC will not change in the character sheet FG takes full account of the effect when attack dice gets rolled. This is also, for me anyway, a much clearer way of doing things since in both cases what you have is a magical effect; in other words it isn't part of your armour but something which magically adds to that armour. I'd much rather see that effect on my character than play around with adding bonuses directly into the AC calculation.

Don't forget that for the Ring you are going to have to create other effects for the saving throws as well, anyway. (Unless of course you add a +1 to all saves).

However, each to his own.

As for more automation, this is a fantastic amount of work and huge amounts of code to which you then have to build in all kinds of exceptions. Whilst nothing is impossible I wouldn't hold your breath to see this come in, especially since there is already a robust method available using effects.

[damned]

So you're saying: 1) Manually modify the Character Sheet AC and 2) Create/activate a blank effect to run that would indicate that I manually edited my CS and go back and manually edit the CS again after the spell wears off?

Not exactly what I was hoping for...

the spell lasts for 8 hours... how often do you not have the spell active?
anyway - only a suggestion - if it doesnt work for you it doesnt work for you.

[Gustaf]

Hover the mouse over the saving throw entry on the character sheet and use CTRL+Mousewheel to add a permanent bonus (or penalty) to a saving throw. you'll see a little bubble in the top right of the saving throw box showing the permanent bonus being applied.

Awesome info, thank you!

[mec97006]

I've tried to understand why this is difficult to setup. What I don't understand is why effects can't be added to items, then whether they are equipped or not toggles whether they are active or not. What I expected of the character sheet / tabletop environment was to drag the 'magic item' from the Items list drop it on the character, equip it and be done. Not drag onto character sheet, it's nothing more than a description and equipping has no effect at all, have to go to the actions tab (this is not an action taken, just a mostly permanent affect until unequipped or removed) and create a spell or power to create an effect that can get turned off during play and have to repower to make sure it is working as whether it on or not generally isn't readily available. Armor and weapons seem to have a limited version of this built in, but expanding it so can customize the effects on all items seems like it would be an extension of their coding. So sorry to rant, but is there any chance someone is working on applying effects to all items?

[damned]

Welcome mec97006

The codebase is something that has evolved over time. For whatever reasons effects were tied to actors in the Combat Tracker and not to items. This does make the effects more flexible - eg they can account for items, for spells, for terrain, for conditions etc - but it is less intuitive. Other reasons may be more subtle like attunement - putting a ring of protection on your finger may not grant you the bonus immediately if attunement is required, or you already have the maximum number of items attuned etc.

There is at least one extension that will apply effects from items.

[LordEntrails]

So sorry to rant, but is there any chance someone is working on applying effects to all items?
Probably not. This would take updates to many hundreds of products to update. And that's after the codebase might be changed to support.

I've actually never found it a big deal, my players are not adding/subtracting items all that often. And when they do, they just turn on/off the effect using the setup action.

I'm sure more automation would be nice, but their is the extension you can use, and the devs have lots of priorities to work on as well. I believe their is a suggestion on the wish list that you can vote for. https://fgapp.idea.informer.com/

[Dax Doomslayer]

I've tried to understand why this is difficult to setup. What I don't understand is why effects can't be added to items, then whether they are equipped or not toggles whether they are active or not. What I expected of the character sheet / tabletop environment was to drag the 'magic item' from the Items list drop it on the character, equip it and be done. Not drag onto character sheet, it's nothing more than a description and equipping has no effect at all, have to go to the actions tab (this is not an action taken, just a mostly permanent affect until unequipped or removed) and create a spell or power to create an effect that can get turned off during play and have to repower to make sure it is working as whether it on or not generally isn't readily available. Armor and weapons seem to have a limited version of this built in, but expanding it so can customize the effects on all items seems like it would be an extension of their coding. So sorry to rant, but is there any chance someone is working on applying effects to all items?

This may (or may not) be what you're looking for: https://www.dmsguild.com/product/280093/?affiliate_rem=878507.

[Trenloe]

So sorry to rant, but is there any chance someone is working on applying effects to all items?
There's a framework being developed that will allow this. It's not in the 5E ruleset at present. It's currently in the Pathfinder 2e ruleset, which is being the test platform for a more generic approach to automation and effects. When it comes to the 5e ruleset is unknown at this stage.

[Leprekorn]

Silent Ruins equipped Effects when paired with Adrianho's 5E Automatic effects does what you are looking for.