roll20 secures D&D 5E license

[kylania]

https://www.polygon.com/2016/7/28/12309084/dungeons-dragons-virtual-tabletop-ios-android-tablet-roll20-browser-online

Works on tablets and phones now too apparently.

[NotRussellCrowe]

D&D 5e is just getting bigger and bigger. Great for everyone if it pushes the hobby into more homes. I actually came to Fantasy Grounds for 5e but found that having the ability to play many other systems with official modules and settings is simply amazing and wonderful. The community we have here at Fantasy Grounds is top notch, simply the best. One day I'd like to give back and convert modules/settings/etc..

[Answulf]

Not to sound too dense, but isn't that really bad news for Fantasy Grounds? Or am I missing something?

[Trenloe]

Yeah, on face value it is bad news for FG. But competition can be good...

It may also be good news for FG - all of those Roll20 types who complain about the cost of FG and 5E products will now have to pay similar amounts for 5E content on Roll20, as the costs appear to be the same based off the pricing of LMoP on Roll20 and FG. This might be a wake-up call and prompt some Roll20 users to start to look at FG seriously for their 5E gaming needs.

[Diceman]

Yeah, on face value it is bad news for FG. But competition can be good...

It may also be good news for FG - all of those Roll20 types who complain about the cost of FG and 5E products will now have to pay similar amounts for 5E content on Roll20, as the costs appear to be the same based off the pricing of LMoP on Roll20 and FG. This might be a wake-up call and prompt some Roll20 users to start to look at FG seriously for their 5E gaming needs.
This was my first thought on reading the press release on EN World. Over the years the people that played using Roll20 instead of FG always used the excuse that Roll20 was free. I'm sure that WOTC is going to expect similiar costs for their properties that they do from FG.
Let's face it, most RPG players (especially the older ones like me) are tightwads. I can't tell you how many times I've gone to local mini cons and seen players with huge three ring binders with xeroxed copies of gaming material. To me it was always as bad as people downloading music or movies for free. The only time I can see justification for that is when the source material is out of print and there is no online market place to purchase legitimate pdfs.

Back on topic, I read Mr. Davidson's comments on the ENWorld site and I am glad to see he has a positive attitude about it. It just reinforces my opinion of the great people at FG and the FG community.

[gqwebb]

It's good for the community but for me I am all in on fg already. I looked at roll20 back when I moved off 4eturntracker and I went with fg because it was so awesome!! Still glad I made a smart choice.

[HoratioDrank]

I've become quite a dedicated FG fan and users. I like what Smite Works has done with their product, and I've voted for my favorite VTT with my dollars. That said, I'm extremely pleased that Roll20 is entering the officially licensed D&D fray. I think competition is good for the space and it's good for the consumers who play and purchase within that space.

[Galach]

Not to sound too dense, but isn't that really bad news for Fantasy Grounds? Or am I missing something?

Well... I can only see it as a “bad news” for Fantasy Grounds if Roll 20 start to offer the same degree of automation as FG 5th ed modules offer us.

If not, I would not switch to it even if Roll 20 started to offer 5th ed material for free: I do not have the time, patience or will to do macro programing – and FG gives me almost everything I need in this regard right out of the box.

[damned]

Competition is good for the consumers - and it will have some impact on FG for sure - hopefully it will be that more players will eventually look for the increased power/automation of Fantasy Grounds.

[NotRussellCrowe]

Here's my take on it. D&D 5e is very popular, more so than any other time in history. Because of this RPGs are becoming much more mainstream, so many people know about D&D and other RPGs and not in a bad way like the 80's. This means people are becoming more interested in the game and seeking it out, either because they are just hearing about it/seeing it being played and want to try it out or since it is now becoming an acceptable pass time for people that they can talk about at work without getting judged they are going to get into the game. There is no longer the stigma associated with the game that there once was. Or at least the stigma is becoming less and less.

Because of the above there are going to be people that want to play online for a variety of reasons and they are going to start investigating VTTs. Now Roll20 and Fantasy Grounds do many things the same, but they do some things differently. People may start on Roll20--because that's what people on reddit seem to push more than anything else--but find that the offerings of Fantasy Grounds suits them better (that was my case). Of course the opposite is also possible, but the point is that the more people looking to play online then the more potential customers for Fantasy Grounds. There are likely millions of people out there who are only just hearing about D&D (and other RPGs) now and who want to get involved. Some of them are going to want to play online and will research and try out all the options.

Now I admit I don't know enough about Roll20 but at least with Fantasy Grounds there are so many other systems you can play with lots or full automation. I didn't even know about Call of Cthulhu until I encountered it on Fantasy Grounds, now my wife and I are addicted. I'll be buying some of the physical books (when they are in stock), already have Cthulhu Britannica London en route and plan to run games both offline and online once I'm comfortable enough with the rules.

Fantasy Grounds has such an amazing community who give so much back to everyone that even if it doesn't have as many active users as Roll 20 that doesn't make it a failure or not as good (I don't know the numbers but I have no problem finding games to play in or players for my games). The employees of Smite Works and those who do the module conversions and extensions in their spare time will continue to make Fantasy Grounds not only a top of the line VTT but also one of the best communities around.

[ddavison]

The prices for the modules will be the same, so it will really come down to what implementation people prefer. I would have liked to have had the Fantasy Grounds Unity version with the dynamic line of sight and other bells and whistles up by now, but it hasn't happened yet. To use that on Roll20, you would need a subscription there for it first. They are starting with Lost Mine of Phandelver and then planning to do Storm King's Thunder in September. There are a lot of products still to do for 5E for them and depending on what all they provide in their products, those things will take them a lot of time. They can look and see how we've chosen to implement those things and then work to implement something similar. It might be better or it might be worse. Only time will tell.

Is it good news or bad news? I'm not sure. The good news is that Wotc is still very happy with SmiteWorks and Fantasy Grounds and we essentially proved a market for them. They are not likely to suddenly decide to start doing everything in-house again and they probably see external companies like ours as a part of their continued future. Similarly, the price issue should hopefully go away as people see that it costs the same to play on any platform. The bad news is that we are no longer the only game in town for official content.

It's all good though. If you are afraid of competition, you probably shouldn't be in business. :)

[Willot]

Just watched Polygon's review of fg again (its pretty good).It is frustrating to watch them do things wrong.Would probably be helpful if Doug or someone can be in the review (as a player?) To stop them doing things like draging the Character portraits on to the map instead of from the CT, which then creates a situation where the review winds up having phrazes in it like...Huh? why did that happen? Hrmph so how to we apply damage? With the added competition FG cant afford to have their product look hard to use in a review. Just because the PC icon got draged from the wrong thing.

[Newf]

I'll start by saying that, like a few of you I'm sure, I began my VTT experience with Roll20. However, once I saw FG and looked into it, I decided that it was best for me. I haven't look back since. I've finally been able to start building my game/resource library in it and couldn't be happier. I'm quite excited about the Call of Cthulhu 7th Ed ruleset. I've been using 6th with the extension for a few weeks now.

That being said, I do think Roll20 getting the stuff is good, as some have mentioned. The concern I have though is that now Roll20 kind of has a "leg up" in the sense that it's free to use. While FG has the 30 day trial, I still think most people will be more inclined to just go to a website and sign up without having to install anything. I do what I can to try to nudge people in the FG direction on Twitter and via my streams on twitch, but I think that just got a bit harder to do.

Dough brought up a great point about how people will now see that the price points are going to be the same. The main things that Roll20 had going for it was completely free to use and it has dynamic lighting. Once FG comes out with DL (and kind of has with that extension I saw being worked on, which is amazing and I'll be checking that out soon when I get back to D&D next week), I think that will level the playing field again. People often tend to hate up front costs, I know I do. It's just a matter of getting them over the hump.

[Answulf]

I've been playing Fantasy Grounds for over 10 years now, and that entire time it has always been the best product on the market - including now. Roll20 is a great product too and obviously they are doing something right with the insane number of players they have, I just wish there wasn't such a misconception about the cost differences between the two. I'm sure being the only officially licensed software was a huge competitive advantage for a while and it's too bad that's gone, but at least Fantasy Grounds still has the Steam advantage.

Hopefully the Unity version will give Fantasy Grounds another big bump - it can't get here fast enough!

[LordEntrails]

There insane number of reported user is just that, insane. Just because someone creates an account doesn't mean they are a player.

[Mortar]

I have only looked at Roll20 and never used it, this announcement is good for Roll20, its users and the hobby as a whole.

Not bash Roll20 or its users, but the whole price misconception is going to take a bit of hit on the Roll20 side with this. As the way I read it, the only way to get it is if you are a subscriber. Which means that a user that wants to buy it will be paying every month on TOP of purchasing the product.

[JohnD]

But... but... it's free! :rolleyes:

[damned]

Dough brought up a great point about how people will now see that the price points are going to be the same. The main things that Roll20 had going for it was completely free to use and it has dynamic lighting. Once FG comes out with DL (and kind of has with that extension I saw being worked on, which is amazing and I'll be checking that out soon when I get back to D&D next week), I think that will level the playing field again. People often tend to hate up front costs, I know I do. It's just a matter of getting them over the hump.

I dont believe that the dynamic lighting is free... i think its only on the subscription levels.

[Newf]

I have only looked at Roll20 and never used it, this announcement is good for Roll20, its users and the hobby as a whole.

Not bash Roll20 or its users, but the whole price misconception is going to take a bit of hit on the Roll20 side with this. As the way I read it, the only way to get it is if you are a subscriber. Which means that a user that wants to buy it will be paying every month on TOP of purchasing the product.

Based on what I've read on reddit, anyone can buy the products and use them, but if you want access to the dynamic lighting for the maps, you still have to subscribe.

[Newf]

Yes, that's correct. Still have to pay for that feature, but it's still 100% free to use.

[GunnarGreybeard]

The complaining about having to pay for it has already started. The whole, "I already have the books, why do I have to pay twice" posts are starting to appear. It'll be interesting to see how the news is received over the next few weeks.

[ddavison]

I think the free users can still buy products to run with their accounts. There are just limitations on the amount of storage and for some of the features, like LOS that require a subscription. I'm not sure how much of the storage space is used up by The Lost Mine of Phandelver, for example. I know that our DMG is over 123MB by itself, which would push you over the limits of the free account from the very beginning.

It's hard to see on the Roll20 site what is actually included unless you create an account, but can someone that has an account fact check out the attached comparison document to see if I missed anything?

Edit: Newer version of attachment found later in the thread.

[darrenan]

I'm sure the first thing that roll20 folks would call out that's missing from that PDF is the server-hosted/connection hassles issue (opening ports, etc.) which seems to be the the #1 complaint I always see here in the forums. I personally don't see it as a huge issue, but it is annoying on those rare occasions when it doesn't work for some reason and I need to pay attention to it. Doesn't stop me from being an FG die hard, but for others it might.

[Fudly]

I think the free users can still buy products to run with their accounts. There are just limitations on the amount of storage and for some of the features, like LOS that require a subscription. I'm not sure how much of the storage space is used up by The Lost Mine of Phandelver, for example. I know that our DMG is over 123MB by itself, which would push you over the limits of the free account from the very beginning.

It's hard to see on the Roll20 site what is actually included unless you create an account, but can someone that has an account fact check out the attached comparison document to see if I missed anything?

Paid content doesn't count towards your storage limit on roll20.

Roll20 has dynamic line of sight at plus membership.
Roll20 has enhanced rules automation with plugin scripts you can enable at pro membership.
Can host games offline should be a no for ultimate.
Roll20 includes tokens at all membership levels.

[Valarian]

Dough brought up a great point about how people will now see that the price points are going to be the same. The main things that Roll20 had going for it was completely free to use and it has dynamic lighting. Once FG comes out with DL (and kind of has with that extension I saw being worked on, which is amazing and I'll be checking that out soon when I get back to D&D next week), I think that will level the playing field again. People often tend to hate up front costs, I know I do. It's just a matter of getting them over the hump.

I dont believe that the dynamic lighting is free... i think its only on the subscription levels.
I was a backer, and I don't even get the extras like dynamic lighting without subscribing. Only a few map addons.

[Fudly]

I think the free users can still buy products to run with their accounts. There are just limitations on the amount of storage and for some of the features, like LOS that require a subscription. I'm not sure how much of the storage space is used up by The Lost Mine of Phandelver, for example. I know that our DMG is over 123MB by itself, which would push you over the limits of the free account from the very beginning.

It's hard to see on the Roll20 site what is actually included unless you create an account, but can someone that has an account fact check out the attached comparison document to see if I missed anything?

Also,
Anyone on roll20 has fx commands like /fx burn. They just don't have custom ones and a GUI.
Roll20 plus members can't email support.
Roll20 free users have map layers.
"Access to developer versions of fg" should probably not have "of fg"

[Fudly]

I'm not sure Fantasy Grounds has the "Use same characters in multiple campaigns" feature. As a player, you have to ask the DM to export your character out of a game for you.

Your comparison is also missing video, sound effects, voice, and the jukebox which are all available to free roll20 users.

[damned]

I'm not sure Fantasy Grounds has the "Use same characters in multiple campaigns" feature. As a player, you have to ask the DM to export your character out of a game for you.

Your comparison is also missing video, sound effects, voice, and the jukebox which are all available to free roll20 users.

As a player choose Manage Characters -> select the Campaign -> Export Characters is available there for all characters you have played.

[GunnarGreybeard]

Something I just noticed is that on the Polygon announcement page, they have a Fantasy Grounds overview video. :bandit:

[JohnD]

Something I just noticed is that on the Polygon announcement page, they have a Fantasy Grounds overview video. :bandit:

Yes, where they make it clear that they don't really know how to use FG to be able to provide a valid contrast.

[ddavison]

Paid content doesn't count towards your storage limit on roll20.

Roll20 has dynamic line of sight at plus membership.
Roll20 has enhanced rules automation with plugin scripts you can enable at pro membership.
Can host games offline should be a no for ultimate.
Roll20 includes tokens at all membership levels.

Thanks for the updates. I'm focusing on stuff out of the box for the most part.

What sort of tokens come for free from Roll20? Are these just tokens that are available for free directly from artists like Devin Night? Essentially, those are free from Devin Night for any VTT. It's like saying it includes free maps because there are free maps available online. That reminds me, I need to add the maps that we include.

I can add a asterisk for automation since they are more akin to extensions.

You can host games offline with an Ultimate. It falls back to a Standard version. I.e., you can't host Free users any more but you can still run the game locally on your system without Internet and can even allow other licensed users to connect. I put an asterisk there, so I can add a note below the chart.

For map layers and affects, their wiki said it was only available for subscribers. Those things are available even if the DM is just on the free account?

[Newf]

I think the free users can still buy products to run with their accounts. There are just limitations on the amount of storage and for some of the features, like LOS that require a subscription. I'm not sure how much of the storage space is used up by The Lost Mine of Phandelver, for example. I know that our DMG is over 123MB by itself, which would push you over the limits of the free account from the very beginning.

It's hard to see on the Roll20 site what is actually included unless you create an account, but can someone that has an account fact check out the attached comparison document to see if I missed anything?

Free accounts come with 100mb of storage. So unless they're offering some sort of exemption for purchased modules and such, people will be forced to pay the subscription in order to use them. Not making any assumptions however, that's just how it would appear. "Plus" accounts get 1,000MB while "Pro" accounts get 2,000MB. It's also only possible to use Roll20 via tablet/ipad if you subscribe.

EDIT: It appears that paid assets do not count towards your total, so that's good at least.

[Newf]

I'm not sure Fantasy Grounds has the "Use same characters in multiple campaigns" feature. As a player, you have to ask the DM to export your character out of a game for you.

Your comparison is also missing video, sound effects, voice, and the jukebox which are all available to free roll20 users.

Isn't there a setting that lets players export on their own?

[Valarian]

What sort of tokens come for free from Roll20? Are these just tokens that are available for free directly from artists like Devin Night? Essentially, those are free from Devin Night for any VTT. It's like saying it includes free maps because there are free maps available online. That reminds me, I need to add the maps that we include.
There are Devin Night's first 20 token packs available directly in the Roll20 store. Plus some others. It's nothing that can't be obtained at the various artist sites. It'd be like you packaging up the free tokens in to token pack modules for Fantasy Grounds.

[Valarian]

I'm not sure Fantasy Grounds has the "Use same characters in multiple campaigns" feature. As a player, you have to ask the DM to export your character out of a game for you.

Your comparison is also missing video, sound effects, voice, and the jukebox which are all available to free roll20 users.

Isn't there a setting that lets players export on their own?

It depends on the ruleset. Any based on the CoreRPG base can export and import characters. As damned said on the previous screen, players can go in to the Manage Characters section to export characters.

Of course, without the Transmogrifier (Pro functionality), you can't easily copy from one campaign to another in Roll20. At the free level, everything has to be set up from scratch each time - though I think the character sheets have improved this a little.

[ddavison]

I updated the sheet with the suggestions so far.

Question, if player A doesn't show up for an ongoing campaign, is the character sheet still present and assignable to another player to run or to see what they had on the inventory?

[healdhj]

My only real concern is a dig I read in the announcement or a follow on news story. It was in a Facebook side bar so please excuse the lack of reference!

It made a comment about "more time playing and less time yelling at firewalls." Have to say, being I use FG mainly in person at our FLGS this continues to be my only concern/headache with FG. Currently, my players have chosen pen/paper while I've built what I need in FG.

It doesn't help that most of them are broke college students without access to laptops capable of handling FG typically and the FLGS has horrible bandwidth! :)

Good luck to both FG and Roll20, but I've made my ultimate investment already.

[Fudly]

Thanks for the updates. I'm focusing on stuff out of the box for the most part.

What sort of tokens come for free from Roll20? Are these just tokens that are available for free directly from artists like Devin Night? Essentially, those are free from Devin Night for any VTT. It's like saying it includes free maps because there are free maps available online. That reminds me, I need to add the maps that we include.

I can add a asterisk for automation since they are more akin to extensions.

You can host games offline with an Ultimate. It falls back to a Standard version. I.e., you can't host Free users any more but you can still run the game locally on your system without Internet and can even allow other licensed users to connect. I put an asterisk there, so I can add a note below the chart.

For map layers and affects, their wiki said it was only available for subscribers. Those things are available even if the DM is just on the free account?

These are tokens everyone gets automatically on roll20 that doesn't include the free stuff by devin-night. https://marketplace.roll20.net/browse/set/1/no-set
Although, all the free stuff by devin night and others shouldn't be discounted, since free assets are included in roll20s asset search by default. It's not something out of the box you have to go download and install separately.
Everyone has access to map layers and basic effects. Pro users get custom effects and an effects GUI.

[Fudly]

I updated the sheet with the suggestions so far.

Question, if player A doesn't show up for an ongoing campaign, is the character sheet still present and assignable to another player to run or to see what they had on the inventory?
On roll20, yes.

[ddavison]

These are tokens everyone gets automatically on roll20 that doesn't include the free stuff by devin-night. https://marketplace.roll20.net/browse/set/1/no-set
Although, all the free stuff by devin night and others shouldn't be discounted, since free assets are included in roll20s asset search by default. It's not something out of the box you have to go download and install separately.
Everyone has access to map layers and basic effects. Pro users get custom effects and an effects GUI.

I don't really view this as being any different than a a Google Image search. In FG, you could just Save Image As and put it in your tokens (shared or host) folder or your images folder. You don't have to install anything. You could basically use all these same assets with FG.

[Nylanfs]

It's easier since it's part of the marketplace, which the Unity version will probably have, right Doug? :)

[Myrdin Potter]

At present, FG still has a significant lead in actual Wotc and 3rd party 5e rule books and modules available. Plus FG opened up the DM's Guild for official VTT support. Not to mention breaking through the Wotc IP wall to allow official 5e support on VTT. The built in 5e automation is way better than Roll20.

I still think, 9 months later, that the UI for FG is really poor and clunky. The basic drawing tools are way too underpowered. The port opening is a little bit annoying but I was able to use a VPN and DM even when traveling to China, so it is not that insurmountable.

So I think that FG is the right choice but I am glad that roll20 is there to compete even stronger now that they can have the official materials from Wotc (and the complaints by their users about having to pay twice for hard copy and VTT and pay basically full retail is amusing).

[Trenloe]

Plus FG opened up the DM's Guild for official VTT support.
This is an interesting point - the FG DM's Guild modules are only available on the DM's Guild (download and install the .MOD file). Does this mean that there can't/won't be Roll20 adventures on the DM's Guild - or is there some way to export a Roll20 adventure to a file and import that into another user's Roll20?

[Newf]

One thing that seems to be common in the threads/comments I'm reading is that people are either:
- completely oblivious to Fantasy Grounds and what it offers
- or have no idea that modules come preloaded with everything you need to run them.

People seem to be amazed that the modules they'll be able to get on Roll20 will come with everything they need.

[Newf]

whoops double posted for some reason.

[NotRussellCrowe]

One thing that seems to be common in the threads/comments I'm reading is that people are either:
- completely oblivious to Fantasy Grounds and what it offers
- or have no idea that modules come preloaded with everything you need to run them.

People seem to be amazed that the modules they'll be able to get on Roll20 will come with everything they need.

I noticed that too. I frequent reddit a lot and a seeing a lot of people are asking about playing online and if Roll20 is a good one to get into. I was wondering about finding a good one-shot and running redditors though it so they get an intro to VTTs and Fantasy Grounds in particular. Just need to either find one I can get through in 2-3 hours while helping newcomers navigate or build my own.

[Newf]

I noticed that too. I frequent reddit a lot and a seeing a lot of people are asking about playing online and if Roll20 is a good one to get into. I was wondering about finding a good one-shot and running redditors though it so they get an intro to VTTs and Fantasy Grounds in particular. Just need to either find one I can get through in 2-3 hours while helping newcomers navigate or build my own.

I frequent reddit a lot as well and have been reading the threads about it since yesterday. Kind of shocked (but not really) at some of the comments I'm seeing.

I want to get an Ultimate License at some point so that I can run some of my twitter followers through games and show them that FG is like compared to Roll20. The common belief seems to be that if people have FG, they prefer it, but if they don't it's "too expensive" or they've never heard of it, or just aren't willing to try it. When I stream my D&D games, I make it a point to put FG front and centre. I've gotten comments about how great it looks, or even just questions as to what it is I'm using.

[ddavison]

I noticed that too. I frequent reddit a lot and a seeing a lot of people are asking about playing online and if Roll20 is a good one to get into. I was wondering about finding a good one-shot and running redditors though it so they get an intro to VTTs and Fantasy Grounds in particular. Just need to either find one I can get through in 2-3 hours while helping newcomers navigate or build my own.

The adventure league modules are probably a good option for 2-3 hour sessions. Of course, the full adventures seem to be a bit better quality as far as maps go.

[NotRussellCrowe]

The adventure league modules are probably a good option for 2-3 hour sessions. Of course, the full adventures seem to be a bit better quality as far as maps go.

I was thinking about that but I've never done AL games before (playing my first tomorrow) so not sure how that would go over. I know Matt Colville created a starter dungeon and put the map files online for anyone to use, I was thinking I could take that as a starting point and edit as necessary. A bit of combat, option for some role playing, chance to show off Fantasy Grounds... It would be quick but I think it would serve the goal I have. I'm going to think about it this weekend.

[Trenloe]

Just need to either find one I can get through in 2-3 hours while helping newcomers navigate or build my own.
The AAW adventure A00: Crow's Rest Island is a short scenario, with great map and art graphics and a cool story that can showcase what FG can do. For Pathfinder it's available in the FG store here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/store/product.xcp?id=AAWFGA00 and for 5E available here: https://adventureaweek.com/shop/5e-a00-crows-rest-island-fantasy-grounds/

If you can find a AAW games one-month free subscription voucher (hint: look for a post in May on their Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/aawgames/)) you can download two FG modules for free from their website as part of the free subscription.

[Answulf]

This video from Table Top Gaming is the best comparison of the two:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qb-d3Zcznj4

I always point people towards it.

[Fudly]

I don't really view this as being any different than a a Google Image search. In FG, you could just Save Image As and put it in your tokens (shared or host) folder or your images folder. You don't have to install anything. You could basically use all these same assets with FG.

Create a roll20 game on a free account. Click "Art Library." Click "Premium Assets." Click "Free Assets", and you have 29 named folders filled with maps and tokens. And those don't include the ones I linked above which you can only access through searching. (and searching, by the way, is the primary way most players find tokens)

Saving an image from the internet, organizing it into folders, and then dropping it into the right directory counts as installing. It's a question of effort. It takes 0 effort to use them on roll20, and it'd take a lot of effort to install and organize roll20's tokens into Fantasy Grounds.

[Springroll]

I actually own Lost Mine of Phandelver for both FG as well as Roll20, I'm an Ultimate License subscriber on FG and a Pro subscriber on Roll20.

The two VTT's both do the job of playing RPG's online.

But I like FG better, mostly because I find it to be more logical, and I like the automation and the ease of which I could add a RPG to the Core even without using any XML if I wanted to.
Roll20 is more free-form, and you need to get a handle on how to create macros and how the different Character Sheets work.

Tokens, Handouts, Maps, Story parts, Pins, Dice Rolling, Automation, Character Sheets, NPC Sheets, The Library with the rules/modules all (IMMHO) are better on FG.

When it comes to the "Lost Mine of Phandelver" I really like some of the things that they've done in Roll20, with the links to characters, maps, story snippets all in the text of the adventure readily available.
It's easy to add these to FG and I have done so after seeing it done on the Roll20 version i.e.. "What the Goblins Know" is now a link in FG as well from the "Goblin Ambush" Story Sheet.

But I have yet to run the adventure "Lost Mine of Phandelver" or any adventure for that matter on Roll20 and I'm already running "Lost Mine..." and planning to run more adventures on FG, but as I'm on a Mac I'm eagerly awaiting the Unity update.

[Newf]

Tokens, Handouts, Maps, Story parts, Pins, Dice Rolling, Automation, Character Sheets, NPC Sheets, The Library with the rules/modules all (IMMHO) are better on FG.



Everyone I know who has used both have all said they much prefer FG over R20. I've had to play in some games on Roll20 recently and just did not like it at all. So much so in fact, I just had FG open and was using the info from there rather than put it on Roll20. I'm playing in a game on Roll20 tonight actually and actually put my character into there instead this time. It was much easier than I thought, thankfully.

[NotRussellCrowe]

The AAW adventure A00: Crow's Rest Island is a short scenario, with great map and art graphics and a cool story that can showcase what FG can do. For Pathfinder it's available in the FG store here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/store/product.xcp?id=AAWFGA00 and for 5E available here: https://adventureaweek.com/shop/5e-a00-crows-rest-island-fantasy-grounds/

If you can find a AAW games one-month free subscription voucher (hint: look for a post in May on their Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/aawgames/)) you can download two FG modules for free from their website as part of the free subscription.

Thanks, Trenloe!

These are pretty cool, I might have to keep my subscription to get the rest of the A series. Well, I guess I have no excuses left, just need to prep and get some people ready to play.

Thanks again!!!!

[kylania]

People seem to be amazed that the modules they'll be able to get on Roll20 will come with everything they need.

Seems it doesn't though. Someone bought LMoP on Roll20, it talks about a Goblin Ambush map, but then just lists a generic battle map instead when you go to play it.

I've helped three groups of players see the light when it comes to FG, however many of them still resist since the $150 to host is a big buy in when they can "play for free" on roll20 "good enough". High price to play, inability to share books and DM has to own everything are the big drawbacks of a clearly superior FG.

[jamessmckay]

One thing that seems to be common in the threads/comments I'm reading is that people are either:
- completely oblivious to Fantasy Grounds and what it offers
- or have no idea that modules come preloaded with everything you need to run them.

People seem to be amazed that the modules they'll be able to get on Roll20 will come with everything they need.

From what I recall the roll 20 users just extract the module and upload the maps.

[Talyn]

...however many of them still resist since the $150 to host is a big buy in when they can "play for free" on roll20 "good enough". High price to play, inability to share books and DM has to own everything are the big drawbacks of a clearly superior FG.

As I said in a different thread, if people would stop pushing the Ultimate License in everyone's face, more potential players might chill out. A normal license is $40, and $30-ish when it's on sale. If RPG players are willing to shell out $30+ for a hardback book, they can shell out $30 for a VTT that plays multiple RPGs, far as I'm concerned. We really need to get past this notion that "The GM must own everything, and the players are a bunch of moochers." Yes, the GM must own the appropriate FG content but he can also share that content with players if they don't own it (PHB for example). For that matter, if the player owns something the GM does not, the GM can still select that content to be viewable by that player so he can use what he has.

Also, hey, if I'm going to play a multiplayer online videogame with friends, all those friends have to own the game too. I don't feel that's asking too much in 2016.

[JohnD]

As I said in a different thread, if people would stop pushing the Ultimate License in everyone's face, more potential players might chill out. A normal license is $40, and $30-ish when it's on sale. If RPG players are willing to shell out $30+ for a hardback book, they can shell out $30 for a VTT that plays multiple RPGs, far as I'm concerned. We really need to get past this notion that "The GM must own everything, and the players are a bunch of moochers." Yes, the GM must own the appropriate FG content but he can also share that content with players if they don't own it (PHB for example). For that matter, if the player owns something the GM does not, the GM can still select that content to be viewable by that player so he can use what he has.

Also, hey, if I'm going to play a multiplayer online videogame with friends, all those friends have to own the game too. I don't feel that's asking too much in 2016.

Amen. IMO I never understand why people push the Ultimate.

[Galach]

As I said in a different thread, if people would stop pushing the Ultimate License in everyone's face, more potential players might chill out. A normal license is $40, and $30-ish when it's on sale. If RPG players are willing to shell out $30+ for a hardback book, they can shell out $30 for a VTT that plays multiple RPGs, far as I'm concerned. We really need to get past this notion that "The GM must own everything, and the players are a bunch of moochers." Yes, the GM must own the appropriate FG content but he can also share that content with players if they don't own it (PHB for example). For that matter, if the player owns something the GM does not, the GM can still select that content to be viewable by that player so he can use what he has.

Also, hey, if I'm going to play a multiplayer online videogame with friends, all those friends have to own the game too. I don't feel that's asking too much in 2016.

Taylan: you just picked the words out of my mouth – I think exactly as you.


Amen. IMO I never understand why people push the Ultimate.

JohnD, me neither. I particularly purchased the ultimate license because I wanted to be able to DM for everyone, but this was a personal choice. For example, I never advised anyone to buy it unless they were sure they would make use of it. Further, I advised my group to buy the four-pack, in a Steam Sale, so they would be able to spend less money in the license and buy the material they would be using to play and create characters – if they wanted it.

[Nulk]

As I said in a different thread, if people would stop pushing the Ultimate License in everyone's face, more potential players might chill out. A normal license is $40, and $30-ish when it's on sale. If RPG players are willing to shell out $30+ for a hardback book, they can shell out $30 for a VTT that plays multiple RPGs, far as I'm concerned. We really need to get past this notion that "The GM must own everything, and the players are a bunch of moochers." Yes, the GM must own the appropriate FG content but he can also share that content with players if they don't own it (PHB for example). For that matter, if the player owns something the GM does not, the GM can still select that content to be viewable by that player so he can use what he has.

Also, hey, if I'm going to play a multiplayer online videogame with friends, all those friends have to own the game too. I don't feel that's asking too much in 2016.

Absolutely agree with this. I also struggle to understand how people forget that this is no different to the players sitting around a table, where the players bring there own PHB, and the DM supplies all the additional requirements to run the game (DMG, MM, Adventure Module etc).

[JohnD]

Bizarre duplicate post....

[Springroll]

Seems it doesn't though. Someone bought LMoP on Roll20, it talks about a Goblin Ambush map, but then just lists a generic battle map instead when you go to play it.

To be fair neither does LMoP on FG, the map isn't there in the starter box either as it could be played as an theater of the mind encounter. It's easy enough to add the map in both FG and Roll20 though. What it doesn't come with is the basic rules, there's a link to the basic rules (Wizard's homepage) and the SRD included with Roll20 but it's nowhere near as elegant as with FG. The Roll20 DM still needs to prep more and manually handle more than the FG DM. But I'm preaching to the already converted, what FG should do is to push its subscription plan more than the pay once never again even if the latter is more economical...

[Mortar]

Its funny how people don't think twice about spending money on a pile of different stuff...whether its buying books, going to the movies, that latté from Starbucks...until it comes to something online. Then they start whining about how everything costs too much. I stumbled upon FG on Steam shortly after its release on that platform, and never paid a cent for the first 7 or 8 months I played. I ran the demo version and played in one shots with Mask_of_Winter and damned, in a campaign run by Mask and was in two different games run by Jerryrig, and a campaignrun by Magnatude before I bought a full license. I had never even heard of any of the other VTTs out there until after finding FG (tbh, I never looked for anything of the kind either)

Since then I have logged 341 hours in game (according to Steam), that doesn't count the time I have spent with FG running without Steam as I worked on different conversions. I have also bought $280 worth of content since then, some of which I have done nothing with other than check out the system or module. SmiteWorks has also been awesome enough to send me money back for other people buying some of my work.

To this point its cost me a whole $0.78 or so an hour to enjoy one of my favorite past times. To me that's a pretty good return on my investment.

Its all in the perception, if somebody wants to pay the subscription fees for some of the other VTTs out there, as long as that person feels they are getting value for their money - then its money well spent. To some people paying a subscription is more achievable or acceptable than buying a license out right, again as long as they feel they are getting value for their money

From where I stand though, someone who is paying a subscription to another VTT and tries to tell me its less expensive than FG is trying to blow smoke up my a$$

[gqwebb]

Spot on, great ROI mark up. Even if I went and paid 3 times as much ( I hope Doug didn't catch that.) I just bought another Rusty Dragon Inn booster brick. It is all for the game. That is what I do, I game. I evaluated and I am on the best track as are all the great gamer's on this forum.

14914

FG how game is done!

[lesliev]

I noticed that too. I frequent reddit a lot and a seeing a lot of people are asking about playing online and if Roll20 is a good one to get into. I was wondering about finding a good one-shot and running redditors though it so they get an intro to VTTs and Fantasy Grounds in particular. Just need to either find one I can get through in 2-3 hours while helping newcomers navigate or build my own.


NotRussellCrowe: If you are looking for a quick 5E one-shot, consider "Into the Awaroth Woods":
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?23721-5E-Community-Modules

[Valarian]

Amen. IMO I never understand why people push the Ultimate.
Generally because people come along and say that their players don't want to spend anything. Personally, I tend to point them to the demo version and then say that there's the $9.99 a month subscription available.

[NotRussellCrowe]

NotRussellCrowe: If you are looking for a quick 5E one-shot, consider "Into the Awaroth Woods":
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?23721-5E-Community-Modules

Thanks, lesliev!

[Talyn]

Generally because people come along and say that their players don't want to spend anything.

Tempted to say they're in the wrong hobby altogether if no one's wanting to spend any money. But if a potential new player comes along and says that, the last thing on the planet anyone should be doing is shoving that $150 price tag in their face. Putting that barrier to entry at the door, combined with sticker shock, is what sends them running to the competition.

[Ken L]

Tempted to say they're in the wrong hobby altogether if no one's wanting to spend any money. But if a potential new player comes along and says that, the last thing on the planet anyone should be doing is shoving that $150 price tag in their face. Putting that barrier to entry at the door, combined with sticker shock, is what sends them running to the competition.

I started with PF as it was open source. I now own all the core books and a great number of official paizo PDFs I brought from their site. In college I was strapped for cash so I played PF, and now I continue to play and purchase PF material as i'm very familiar with the rules and material and like the fluff they release. If PF was 'buy the rulebook first' I doubt I'd even enter the tabletop hobby.

'Freemium' has its benefits.

[Moon Wizard]

Closing this thread for now as suggested by a couple people. If you feel the discussion should continue, please start another thread.

Thanks,
JPG