Fog of war extension demo video

[smelton]

In my spare time over the past week or so I've been tinkering with a fog of war extension for FG. Here is a demo/how-to video I posted for those who may be interested: https://youtu.be/Xj3FwXkJ_jU

I have a few more kinks to work out but I plan to post the extension here when it's ready.

[Targas]

Nice extension. Do you consider race specific view distances, irregular rooms or limited obstructed view due to pillars or height difference as well ?

[Trenloe]

Looks very cool - nice work!

I notice that you've added one-click movement to the tokens. Does this effect/override the normal drag/drop movement and GM movement approval if tokens are locked?

[smelton]

Nice extension. Do you consider race specific view distances, irregular rooms or limited obstructed view due to pillars or height difference as well ?

It is still in very early stages and my first goal was to automate the built in masking feature. Being that I play D&D I had already planned to support darkvision. The next feature I will add is a light source editor (similar to the object editor seen in the video). Essentially you will be able to place light sources in various locations and any cells in the line of sight of the light source will be lit and everything else dark. Cells will be cross-referenced with the PCs line of sight and displayed according to their trait or lack thereof. For pillars you can just mark an object with the object editor. I have not considered height differences

[smelton]

Looks very cool - nice work!

I notice that you've added one-click movement to the tokens. Does this effect/override the normal drag/drop movement and GM movement approval if tokens are locked?

Yes, for now, and here is why: there is no hook/notification/feedback from the imagebox for the movement of tokens along the path from point-A to point-B using the built in movement features, so I was not able to show any cells that would be visible while the token was moving. However, I have a path-finding algorithm I wrote for an Android game a while back that I can port over and implement for my own drag/drop and approval mechanisms.
Another built-in feature I lost that I will need to add is drawing pointers/shapes

[Skellan]

Really cool!

[Moon Wizard]

Impressive. I'm really curious how your extension works now that I had a chance to watch the video.

Cheers,
JPG

[kylania]

Wow.. that's... totally awesome and should immediately be built into the program pretty please. :)

[Zeus]

Nice extension, moon and I have recently been discussing LoS functionality. I really like the use of the masking functionality and how your extension automates it. Look forward to seeing the extension code.

[Seya]

Amazing thanks for your hard work

[ddavison]

Great work. That appears to be a very intuitive and well thought out extension. We've been discussing your video internally. We had been looking into doing LOS within the Unity version and planned to punt on it within the current version of FG. You have obviously come up with a great way to handle it in the current version. If you are open to the idea, maybe Moon_Wizard could set up a meeting with you to see about possibly including this within the base program as a CoreRPG update. If we did that, we'd see about finding some way to reward or compensate you for the amazing contribution to the program.

[Callum]

Impressive. Most impressive.

Presumably you could fairly easily have an option to fill it back in in black, instead of grey, so that where the PCs have been is fully hidden?

I guess there's no way to show the different players only what their own PC can see?

[Fudly]

This video is awesome.

I also learned some things. I didn't know you could add all the friendly tokens to the map at once by dragging the green skull from the combat tracker, or change whose turn it is by dragging the slider on the left. Where do you learn this stuff?

[Trenloe]

Where do you learn this stuff?
The user guide in the Wiki:

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/wiki/index.php/Combat_Tracker ("Main Window" section covers both of the items you mention).

[smelton]

Impressive. Most impressive.

Presumably you could fairly easily have an option to fill it back in in black, instead of grey, so that where the PCs have been is fully hidden?

I guess there's no way to show the different players only what their own PC can see?

I already build this feature into the extension but ran into a problem. The visibility of a token is shared between the host and clients. Meaning if the goblin is not in the line of sight of player1 I hide it, which hides it for everyone. But then if the goblin is in the line of sight of player2 and I unhide it, well it unhides it for everyone. So currently the button to turn that feature on/off is hidden on the toolbar - until I come up with a workaround for it the best use case for it is line of sight for ranges attacks.

[smelton]

Impressive. Most impressive.

Presumably you could fairly easily have an option to fill it back in in black, instead of grey, so that where the PCs have been is fully hidden?

I guess there's no way to show the different players only what their own PC can see?

Also, the third button resets the map back to fully hidden

[smelton]

Great work. That appears to be a very intuitive and well thought out extension. We've been discussing your video internally. We had been looking into doing LOS within the Unity version and planned to punt on it within the current version of FG. You have obviously come up with a great way to handle it in the current version. If you are open to the idea, maybe Moon_Wizard could set up a meeting with you to see about possibly including this within the base program as a CoreRPG update. If we did that, we'd see about finding some way to reward or compensate you for the amazing contribution to the program.

I would love to help out in anyway I can!

[ddavison]

Have you considered clicking on an edge to block LOS instead of requiring a full grid square? I know that we have a lot of publisher maps with adjacent rooms only divided by a single line. You could possibly use the same sort of technique they do with adding cell borders in Microsoft Excel or Google Sheets.

14851

[LordEntrails]

Kudos, +1, Like!

[Gwydion]

Very, very cool!!!! +1! Tremendous work!!

[Eru the One]

Great extension!

[Kelendor]

Really cool,keep up the awesome work I can't wait to try it out.

[damned]

Nice job smelton that is really pushing the power of an extension!

[Ken L]

Very well done considering that you had to work with the existing ruleset.

People asking for player specific vision or view distances etc are being greedy now imho.

[Full Bleed]

People asking for player specific vision or view distances etc are being greedy now imho.
Well, that sort of goes hand in hand with LoS so it comes as no surprise that questions about it would follow. Smelton is talking about vision types (i.e. "Darkvision") and light sources, so there is definitely more in the pipeline.

I really didn't know that FG's extension ability could even go this far... so it's pretty impressive as is. But with the developers interested in the tech, who knows, they might even be able to crack individual views and edge blocking to really bring this home.

Nice job Smelton!

[damned]

Well, that sort of goes hand in hand with LoS so it comes as no surprise that questions about it would follow. Smelton is talking about vision types (i.e. "Darkvision") and light sources, so there is definitely more in the pipeline.

I really didn't know that FG's extension ability could even go this far... so it's pretty impressive as is. But with the developers interested in the tech, who knows, they might even be able to crack individual views and edge blocking to really bring this home.

Nice job Smelton!

I think that SmiteWorks are concentrating on their Unity implementation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=do9BR7aJcLs

[Full Bleed]

I think that SmiteWorks are concentrating on their Unity implementation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=do9BR7aJcLs
I won't deny that Carl appears to be on it... but as for how this gets into the current FG... Ddavison did ask about adding this to CoreRPG and edge blocking... so he's already thinking about implementation for the here and now.

Smelton appears to have done a lot of the heavy lifting at this point... and while I wouldn't expect them to do any major remodeling (if, for example, that's what it would take to get individual views)... some tweaking on the way to being a part of CoreRPG doesn't seem out of the question.

Still a little blown away that someone who appears to be a relative newcomer to the software has put this together as his first extension. Who knows what veteran eyes might be able to add.

[damned]

I won't deny that Carl appears to be on it... but as for how this gets into the current FG... Ddavison did ask about adding this to CoreRPG and edge blocking... so he's already thinking about implementation for the here and now.

Smelton appears to have done a lot of the heavy lifting at this point... and while I wouldn't expect them to do any major remodeling (if, for example, that's what it would take to get individual views)... some tweaking on the way to being a part of CoreRPG doesn't seem out of the question.

Still a little blown away that someone who appears to be a relative newcomer to the software has put this together as his first extension. Who knows what veteran eyes might be able to add.

True, true - Im very impressed with what smelton has done. This is way above the average extension in complexity!
Whilst new to FG - I think smelton is probably quite the accomplished programmer...


Yes, for now, and here is why: there is no hook/notification/feedback from the imagebox for the movement of tokens along the path from point-A to point-B using the built in movement features, so I was not able to show any cells that would be visible while the token was moving. However, I have a path-finding algorithm I wrote for an Android game a while back that I can port over and implement for my own drag/drop and approval mechanisms.

[arkanis]

Wow, very nice! Looking forward to try the extension. +1

[Callum]

Also, the third button resets the map back to fully hidden

Okay, cool. I was wondering about the ability to only show the players what their PCs can currently see, though, as opposed to what's shown in your demo - where the areas they've been, but can't see currently, are visible but shaded in grey.

[Callum]

I already build this feature into the extension but ran into a problem. The visibility of a token is shared between the host and clients. Meaning if the goblin is not in the line of sight of player1 I hide it, which hides it for everyone. But then if the goblin is in the line of sight of player2 and I unhide it, well it unhides it for everyone. So currently the button to turn that feature on/off is hidden on the toolbar - until I come up with a workaround for it the best use case for it is line of sight for ranges attacks.

Yes, I figured that would be the case. I'm not even sure if it's possible with the current FG engine to show two players differently-masked versions of the same map. In any case, it's not a big deal, as you can generally assume that the PCs will be relaying info to the others about what they can see and where the enemies are.

[LordEntrails]

I like the greyed areas for what has been seen in the past but is not currently visible. It means my players don't have to make a map, real or mental, of where they've been. It means that I don't have to expect my players to remember the layout of a cave that their characters were in 5 minutes ago game time, but they players haven't seen in 5 or more days world time.

Again smelton, amazing, wonderful work. So glad to have you in the community! :)
p.s. Did anyone welcome you?

[lostsanityreturned]

I think that SmiteWorks are concentrating on their Unity implementation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=do9BR7aJcLs

With the unity implementation I really hope that they implement a mask layer, so I can import a mask from photoshop, rather than having to work it all out in fantasy grounds it's self.

[Nylanfs]

Welcome to the FG community and forums lost!

[lostsanityreturned]

Welcome to the FG community and forums lost!

-laughs- Glad to be here ;)

[Phystus]

That's wonderful work! Nicely done, sir, and welcome aboard!

~P

[ddavison]

Yes, definitely welcome to the forums.

You might get the award for the most effective first two posts. :D

[Ken L]

I really like the use of the masking functionality and how your extension automates it. Look forward to seeing the extension code.

If FG decides to incorporate and build upon smelton's work. I hope he's compensated with an ultimate license or store credits or something. Foss doesn't mean free crowd sourcing.

[ddavison]

If FG decides to incorporate and build upon smelton's work. I hope he's compensated with an ultimate license or store credits or something. Foss doesn't mean free crowd sourcing.

Certainly.

[Paperclipkiller]

The grey areas that show areas in the "past" are probably the coolest thing to add with fog of war in your extension! I have a player who loves being able to see the map and just having basic fog of war where you can only see nearby would frustrate him constantly, so having him still be able to explore those areas and see the map but still me able to mess with it when its out of his line of sight would be a life saver. It also helps in that I can focus on telling my players what is happening instead of also having to manually open the fog of war on the map, one less thing to multitask.

One thing I thought of that may help some people. Occasionally players miscount their movement and move a bit further then they should. Maybe add in some functionality that lets you activate a new players vision after they move if a DM wanted to use that? Like, the players have their current Fog of War, they move, and then you click a button to let them see their updated Fog of War? I guess if there was a way in FG to see when you click on a token where it can move (with normal rules and variant rules) then that wouldn't be needed. But idk if 1: they do feature requests and 2: if that is something that can be implemented in the current non-unity version of FG.

All in all this extension is amazing and I will probably use it once there are a few things added/updated! Or if it gets added to the current version of Fantasy Grounds then perfect!

[Callum]

I like the greyed areas for what has been seen in the past but is not currently visible. It means my players don't have to make a map, real or mental, of where they've been.
Yes, it's clever, and I don't want to see that taken away. I'd just like to have the option of choosing for it to go back to black, too.

[Full Bleed]

I like the greyed areas for what has been seen in the past but is not currently visible.
Here is another thumbs-up for that implementation. Maptool has had this sort of thing for a long time and I've never used the "return to black" option. Not saying that there wouldn't be sometimes where you might want to use it (like if you want a maze to be truly confusing) but in normal play, the greyed-out-areas-that-have-been-exposed-but-aren't-currently-visible method is the way to go.

[JohnD]

Very nice... really nice.

I probably wouldn't use it, but I sure can appreciate the wizardry that's gone into this so far.

[harrisben]

This is awesome and kudos to the author. It would be nice to get the FG-Unity implementation someday...

[Nylanfs]

Harrisben, I think you missed this the guy got it working in the CURRENT game engine.

[harrisben]

I was sorta making a comment on the fact the Unity version and implementation, which has full line-of-sight, is still out there in the ether of the unknown universes. One day it will grace us with its presence.

What the OP has done is truly remarkable though.

[LordEntrails]

Doug & John, I know you didn't ask for my opinion... But here it is anyway :)

I wouldn't mind if the inclusion of this extension/technology was the entire focus of v3.3. I'd enjoy it as a user, but it my limited knowledge would be a good business/competition focused decision as well.

Smelton, keep up the good work. Doug & John, you guys too, you rock!

[smelton]

Have you considered clicking on an edge to block LOS instead of requiring a full grid square? I know that we have a lot of publisher maps with adjacent rooms only divided by a single line. You could possibly use the same sort of technique they do with adding cell borders in Microsoft Excel or Google Sheets.

14851

I've been thinking about this idea since you posted it. Challenge accepted.

[tdewitt274]

Great job! Although more of a LoS, this could be a layer of cover in 3e and 5e.

[ddavison]

I've been thinking about this idea since you posted it. Challenge accepted.

Smelton, I like you already. :D

[lesliev]

Smelton, this is truly remarkable. Thanks for the amazing work!

[Moon Wizard]

Hah, this is exactly how Doug gets me working on new features he likes. ;)

JPG

[Griogre]

LOL, and so the Unity port slips a few weeks.... ;)

This is truly an impressive demo Smelton, I'm looking forward to the extension.

[Mirloc]

I can only repeat what so many have said already.

WELL DONE!

[rob2e]

Nice. Exciting! It would be cool (here I go asking for MORE already) if the reshaded dimmed areas could also have the option to be reshaded completely. I.e., someone leaves an area, they can't see what they used to see. Would be great for twisty, turny, which way was that againish stuff.

Great work. Now my patience for 3.2 has turned into FOAMING AT THE MOUTH for 3.3 if this will be implemented, meanwhile I look forward to adding the extension to creep out my players.

Nice work Smelton.

[damned]

I like the greyed out fog of war which still shows the map but not what new threats have wandered into the area :)
I dont mind what way you choose to implement this - if its as easy to use as it was in this demo I will definitely use it in some games!

[Caidh Mor]

This is exactly the sort of thing I've been chomping at the bit for since I first got the program. Beyond psyched to hear talk about its potential implementation.

[Nylanfs]

Welcome to the community and forums

[Manahtar]

Oh this is nerdgasmic man, awesome job! i look forward to implement this on my in-site game, it will accelerate things even more leaving room for more playing!

[MarianDz]

hmm looks nice, it really push this nice FG project forward.
But I see little problems, if every Hero will have different lenght of view (distance) and position (angle).
How this area appear on DM's screen? Will DM click on every Hero and make analysis, corrections if monster is or isn't visible by some party member or not.
Or it simply marks monster (on map placed hidden monster too) with special colour as reminder that monster is in area of view some of hero for DM?
Maybe some kind of masks can solve this little problem. Because every DM must be 2 steps before heroes, better 3 :o and this video shows only players side :confused:

[damned]

Hi MarianDz watching the video the GM can see thru the FoW in this the same way they can thru the current mask. At the moment all players get the same map reveal - if one player reveals a room they all get it.

[Nickademus]

The extension is of course in its infant stages. It's nice but it needs a lot of work. Doug has already got the ball rolling on such. Now is the time to take into account vision, visibility, light, obstacle orientation, perception and other factors that determine fog of war behavior in a RP game.

Give it time.

[Callum]

At the moment all players get the same map reveal - if one player reveals a room they all get it.

That's right - and I'm happy with that, since generally the PCs will be relaying information about what they see to one another. If there's a situation where that's not the case, you can share the map with only one player.

[kuthulu]

Looks very cool - nice work!

I notice that you've added one-click movement to the tokens. Does this effect/override the normal drag/drop movement and GM movement approval if tokens are locked?

I kinda like the one-click movement for tokens. When I was using another VTT with dynamic fog-of-war my players would always move their tokens and as soon as they came around the corner and saw a Goblin staring them in the face they would always try a take back their movement. Or say, "no I wanted to move here instead." It would be cool to be able to take the characters SPEED and countdown per square moved. They could always turn back the way they came but it would still count towards their movement. Probably shouldn't restrict their movement based on speed because of buffs and things like RUN and Withdraw but being able to see how far they moved in a round would be nice.

This is great work so far Smelton! I'm super excited to test this out.

[Callum]

It would be cool to be able to take the characters SPEED and countdown per square moved. They could always turn back the way they came but it would still count towards their movement.

Yeah, I'd like to see this, too. It seems an essential tool for handling these sorts of situations, in the current version of FG or the new Unity version.

[Targas]

You can say it's part of 'surprise' if the players rush full movement forward, or let one cautiously move ahead and the others rush behind. No need to one block move, if not made for intend IMHO. It comes with risk running full speed ahead. Other than that it will kill the fun of stumbling across something unexpected.

[Targas]

Any news on planned roadmap, or scheduled release. I think even in the current state it's a very nice addition if you want the players wander around a large maze for example. ?

[damned]

Any news on planned roadmap, or scheduled release. I think even in the current state it's a very nice addition if you want the players wander around a large maze for example. ?

On every single Unity thread including this one they explain there is no public road map nor a scheduled release date. Dates will be announced only when they know they can deliver the product they want to deliver on that date.

[Targas]

On every single Unity thread including this one they explain there is no public road map nor a scheduled release date. Dates will be announced only when they know they can deliver the product they want to deliver on that date.
Sorry, as I thought it was meant to be available not in Unity, but in the current release - as was shown in the very beginning.
Anyway, it will come when it's ready, but it would've been nice to know if this year or next to plan adventures ahead.

[Full Bleed]

Sorry, as I thought it was meant to be available not in Unity, but in the current release - as was shown in the very beginning.
Anyway, it will come when it's ready, but it would've been nice to know if this year or next to plan adventures ahead.
Uh... yeah. Not sure what damned is getting at... There is no reason to believe that this extension will even be needed in Unity given what we've see of Unity's LoS previews.

It would, however, be very useful in *this* edition of FG (which is what it is/was being developed on).

[Nylanfs]

I think they are talking about that proof of concept that the one user got working in an extension, but only handled squares blocking line of sight.

[Full Bleed]

I know what Targas was talking about (Smelton's extension that this thread is about). Damned seemed to think that Targas was asking about when Unity was coming out...

What Targas was asking about was whether or not there was a release date for this extension in this version of FG. After being posted, this topic blew up pretty quick and the developers showed interest in incorporating it... it seemed like it was on the fast-track to implementation. But we haven't heard much since.

[damned]

Sorry, as I thought it was meant to be available not in Unity, but in the current release - as was shown in the very beginning.
Anyway, it will come when it's ready, but it would've been nice to know if this year or next to plan adventures ahead.


Uh... yeah. Not sure what damned is getting at... There is no reason to believe that this extension will even be needed in Unity given what we've see of Unity's LoS previews.

It would, however, be very useful in *this* edition of FG (which is what it is/was being developed on).

Yep - my bad - apologies all.

[Targas]

I know what Targas was talking about (Smelton's extension that this thread is about). Damned seemed to think that Targas was asking about when Unity was coming out...

What Targas was asking about was whether or not there was a release date for this extension in this version of FG. After being posted, this topic blew up pretty quick and the developers showed interest in incorporating it... it seemed like it was on the fast-track to implementation. But we haven't heard much since.
Exactly, and thank you following my thoughts. Sometimes I even won't respond anymore, as some answering are rigidly thinking differently, I feel.
It cost me too much energy to explain my thoughts to those and to defend myself, but it's good to see I'm not the only one interested in this extension and I get some support. So, thank you.

[damned]

Hola Targas I acknowledged above I hadnt followed the thread and apologised :)

[iiiTRiBEiii]

As an aspiring GM, this is awesome! Thank you for your work smelton and look forward to the future.

[PsychoPif]

This is awesome!
Is there anyway you could publish the extension? I'd rather have basic LoS now than wait months to get extra feature I might not use.

BTW, Smelton, you deserve an award or something. I've been using FG for years now and I must say you cracked the most requested feature of mine and of many others I'm sure.

You win my interweb.

[Rilmarion]

Can't wait to be able to use this feature.

[Torgaard]

While it's maybe something that should go in the "FG Suggestions" page/list, I thought I'd suggest something here I think would be extremely useful (but maybe not possible with the tech): having it so that you can set not only the range of a persons light source, but perhaps have it so that you can set what is "dim light" as well - and have that dim light ring be semi-opaque. In 5E for example, a torch has a bright light radius of 20' and an additional 20' of dim light. If that 21' to 40' outer ring were colored black with a transparency (using Photoshop term/reference) of like 20%, it'd make it much much easier to tell if something was standing in the dim light of your torch. Which of course might have an important impact on combat.

I actually do a poor man's version of this at my table: I've created a bunch of "tokens" for various light sources (ie a torch, a lantern, a light spell (one's white, one's yellow, and another is light blue depending on the caster's preference)). I then put that light source on the layer below the characters, resize it to fit the proper radius, and off ya go. It actually works surprisingly well! I tend to make my dungeon maps a little dark for use with these torch tokens, and when you put that semi-transparent yellow light torch "token" I made (using a yellow circular gradient that I set to like ~20% transparency, and then an outer ring of black that's also mostly transparent), it actually brightens up the dark map under it - and the map even has a slightly yellowish tint to it when viewed through light token resting on top of it. Kinda cool. But of course it's alot to futz with it the table, because when I character moves I have to quick switch that lower layer and move the torch token to their new position.

I'll try to remember to post screenshots of my light source tokens tonight when I get home from work to give you a better idea of what I'm talkin' about.

[Torgaard]

Zeh aforementioned screenshot of a Light spell token I use when a player casts that spell (with a blue tint in this case), which provides 20' of bright light and an outer 20' of dimlight:
15363

With that semi-opaque outer ring, we can easily see what area is dim light.

[JeffKnight]

Keep up the good work. While Unity will have dynamic LoS, it's not here yet, and this would be useful now. One of the things I hate most is drawing masks.

[fabiocm]

:D Fantastic

[adonndel]

I would love to help out in anyway I can!

Did anything ever come of this? It appears smelton dropped off the FG radar in Aug.

[Zacchaeus]

Did anything ever come of this? It appears smelton dropped off the FG radar in Aug.

Nope, as you say the author dropped off the radar a while ago. So unless he comes back....

Trenloe is working on this (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?34552-Today-I-have-mostly-been-working-on-(light-effects)) though which is pretty much the same thing I think; or at least can serve the same purpose

[damned]

pindercarl has previewed his LOS implementation that he is doing for Unity. I know its some way of yet but it was very snappy.

[Tel Arin]

smelton, we miss you :(