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Merciless Ming
August 22nd, 2005, 14:50
Hi all. First let me say I just recently downloaded the free version of FG and love it. This is a very slick program, and I wish Smite Works much commercial success with it.
I would love to utilize it in my games of the newly released Shadowrun, 4th edition and so far it seems like this would be viable at least at a base level - the chat is very nice, the map & token tools look good, and the die rolling is novel, but adequate (for shadowrun... very good for d20 im sure).
Here are some suggestions I have to make FG more SR4-friendly.
1. Rolling mechanics: The basic rolling mechanic for SR4 is: roll a variable # of D6's. Every 5 or higher you get scores a success. If you roll equal to or more 1's than 5+'s, a 'complication' occurs. It would be *REALLY* helpful if the die roller could be changed to record the number of 5+ results instead of getting the sum of dice rolled, and report whether or not a complication occured.
2. Displaying the dice results from lowest to highest (or v v): It would help visually when I roll X number of dice if they could be displayed in the chat window in order of ascending/descending value. That way I could easily pick out how many successes were scored.
3. Displaying the dice results as a custom color: It would also be helpful visually if I could choose to make 1's display red and 5+ to display green or something.
4. Custom dicebag: Since Shadowrun uses only D6's, the rest of the 3D dice on the screen are wasted real estate to me. I enjoy rolling the virtual dice and would choose that over entering a roll command in the chat bar (kudos with this feature btw). However, it seems like a more versatile approach to the 3D dice, and one that more closely mimics the tabletop experience imho, would be to have a dicebag icon on the desktop from which you could choose how many D20s, D10s, D6's, etc. to pull from it and have sitting around on the desktop. Then maybe I could "lasso" two or three or six D6's and roll them together, or right click on one and roll 10 D6's which disappear after I roll them like it does now. If nothing else, let me get rid of the dice I don't need.

I think these would be a great start to making the game more friendly to dice pool oriented games like SR or WW games. The step after that, I believe, would be to relate the idea of modifiers to extra or less dice to roll, instead of an addition/subtraction to the roll result.

Are there any fans of Shadowrun here who have been inspired to begin work on a SR ruleset, like a character sheet?

richvalle
August 22nd, 2005, 15:37
Hi all. First let me say I just recently downloaded the free version of FG and love it. This is a very slick program, and I wish Smite Works much commercial success with it.
I would love to utilize it in my games of the newly released Shadowrun, 4th edition and so far it seems like this would be viable at least at a base level - the chat is very nice, the map & token tools look good, and the die rolling is novel, but adequate (for shadowrun... very good for d20 im sure).

Hi and Welcome!



Here are some suggestions I have to make FG more SR4-friendly.
1. Rolling mechanics: The basic rolling mechanic for SR4 is: roll a variable # of D6's. Every 5 or higher you get scores a success. If you roll equal to or more 1's than 5+'s, a 'complication' occurs. It would be *REALLY* helpful if the die roller could be changed to record the number of 5+ results instead of getting the sum of dice rolled, and report whether or not a complication occured.

WoTC has strict rules saying that software can not automate aspects of the d20 game. SR might have the same sort of thing in place.



2. Displaying the dice results from lowest to highest (or v v): It would help visually when I roll X number of dice if they could be displayed in the chat window in order of ascending/descending value. That way I could easily pick out how many successes were scored.

Sorry but I definatly do NOT want to see this. What I'm hoping to do is be able to roll 4 or more Spot/Search checks all at the same time and take the rolls in the order they show and apply them to the order the characters are shown at the top. I'll make a 'sign-in' sheet with their modifiers and have them in front of me so I can see them and apply their skills. Sorting the die rolls would stop me from doing this.



3. Displaying the dice results as a custom color: It would also be helpful visually if I could choose to make 1's display red and 5+ to display green or something.

Sure. It would be cool if each player could color thier d20 so it would show red on a possible crit.



4. Custom dicebag: Since Shadowrun uses only D6's, the rest of the 3D dice on the screen are wasted real estate to me. I enjoy rolling the virtual dice and would choose that over entering a roll command in the chat bar (kudos with this feature btw). However, it seems like a more versatile approach to the 3D dice, and one that more closely mimics the tabletop experience imho, would be to have a dicebag icon on the desktop from which you could choose how many D20s, D10s, D6's, etc. to pull from it and have sitting around on the desktop. Then maybe I could "lasso" two or three or six D6's and roll them together, or right click on one and roll 10 D6's which disappear after I roll them like it does now. If nothing else, let me get rid of the dice I don't need.

Hmmm. Are you saying I'd have to 'open' a bag every time I wanted to roll some dice? I think that would be kind of cumbersome. At the table I BRING the dice in a bag but them dump them out and grab them as I need them off the table.



I think these would be a great start to making the game more friendly to dice pool oriented games like SR or WW games. The step after that, I believe, would be to relate the idea of modifiers to extra or less dice to roll, instead of an addition/subtraction to the roll result.

Are there any fans of Shadowrun here who have been inspired to begin work on a SR ruleset, like a character sheet?

I think there were posts quite a while ago about this but I didn't follow what happened with it.

Luck,

rv

Merciless Ming
August 22nd, 2005, 17:10
I think my post needs some clarifications. Of course all the die rolling changes up there are being suggested as optional rules, or customizable mechanics. That should be obvious, but I realize I didn't say that.


WoTC has strict rules saying that software can not automate aspects of the d20 game. SR might have the same sort of thing in place.

this is good to keep in mind, thanks. If FanPro (SR owners) have a similar rule, reporting a complication might not be appropriate. Counting 5's, though, should be perfectly viable. It's no more game automation than adding dice is.


Hmmm. Are you saying I'd have to 'open' a bag every time I wanted to roll some dice? I think that would be kind of cumbersome. At the table I BRING the dice in a bag but them dump them out and grab them as I need them off the table.

In my head, I see opening the dice bag as something you may do once or twice a session. If I was playing Shadowrun, I would grab a handful of d6's. If I was playing a d20 game, I would grab an assortment. After I take out the dice, they stay on the desktop, just as FG is implemented now, until I choose to remove them. The payoff for the user is: if the game I play doesn't use a certain die, I don't have to see it on the table.

Perhaps the developers aren't interested in these suggestions; I haven't seen it explicitly stated anywhere, but with all the d20 branding on FG, my gut tells me this is a tool that will only see developer support for the d20 system. If that's not the case, I apologize, but I hope you can see how an outsider would immediately get that idea.

SmiteWorks has the look and feel nailed, I believe. (Again, good job SW). If they make the mechanics more accomodating, this will easily become the standard for online tabletop RPGs.

richvalle
August 22nd, 2005, 18:19
I think my post needs some clarifications. Of course all the die rolling changes up there are being suggested as optional rules, or customizable mechanics. That should be obvious, but I realize I didn't say that.

Actually I did think it was kind of obvious but as you didn't say I was not 100% sure. :)

The easiest thing, from a users point of view, would be for these options to load up with custom rule sets I think.



In my head, I see opening the dice bag as something you may do once or twice a session. If I was playing Shadowrun, I would grab a handful of d6's. If I was playing a d20 game, I would grab an assortment. After I take out the dice, they stay on the desktop, just as FG is implemented now, until I choose to remove them. The payoff for the user is: if the game I play doesn't use a certain die, I don't have to see it on the table.

Ahhh! I see what you mean. Sure, that sound nice. It has also been suggested that there be a 'cup' that dice can be dropped into and then rolled. That way you can drop in a d20 and a d6 and a d4 (or whatever) and roll them all together. The devs seemed to like that idea (though this does not help you at all if you just use an all d6 system).



Perhaps the developers aren't interested in these suggestions; I haven't seen it explicitly stated anywhere, but with all the d20 branding on FG, my gut tells me this is a tool that will only see developer support for the d20 system. If that's not the case, I apologize, but I hope you can see how an outsider would immediately get that idea.

Did you see the message 'Greetings from GenCon' from one of the Devs (Goblin King)? I'll cut and paste:

"We've come to a point where we and the users would both like to see stuff in FG that could enable some advanced features, such as using dice pools as well as implementing some functions that require program logic like generators of various kinds.

To implement a mechanism for this, the 1.06 patch will focus primarily on just one thing: scripting and templating. We expect this new addition to help us keep the ruleset definition mechanisms generic by just expanding the built-in functions of the components. "

I think they have STARTED with d20 and are still working on making d20 the best it can be (as anyone who is hoping to pay for groceries by selling something like this would do! :) ). They have also made an effort to keep the game open so others can create rulesets for other games. But, as you can see from the above they are also looking to support other systems at the same time by providing the users to create any ruleset they want.




SmiteWorks has the look and feel nailed, I believe. (Again, good job SW). If they make the mechanics more accomodating, this will easily become the standard for online tabletop RPGs.

Yeah, its nice and fun too.

Again welcome. If I get the chance I'll try to seach and see what happened with any other SR things.

rv

Thore_Ironrock
August 23rd, 2005, 03:23
this is good to keep in mind, thanks. If FanPro (SR owners) have a similar rule, reporting a complication might not be appropriate. Counting 5's, though, should be perfectly viable. It's no more game automation than adding dice is.

They do, and would instantly take legal action again said person. Now, before everyone hides their heads I'll say that I have connections to FanPro, and getting Shadowrun into FG is a goal of mine. When it will happen I cannot say, but I for will be giving it a try.

Now, regarding the "mechanics" end of non-d20 systems, Ville and Tero (whom I met at Gen Con, great guys . :D ) have told me that a special scripting tool is in the works to handle other dice rolling systems.

Hence, once FG is updated and I have a chance to speak with FanPro, then many things can begin happening for FG and non-d20 games -- including Shadowrun.

Stay tuned ... and please be patient.

ByteBandit
May 30th, 2006, 18:54
I'm also interested in seeing better support for non-D20 games in FG, especially Shadowrun. I've just started playing a Shadowrun campaign at the moment, but we're making do with the D20 Modern Ruleset, which has been working fine so far. Anyone know of any work being done on a Shadowrun character sheet? We're again making do with the D20 Modern sheet for now - not ideal - as you can imagine :)

badphantom
May 30th, 2006, 23:54
Yap, me

i'm just working on it ;)